Thread
Upgrading RAM in SE
I'm getting a lot of out of memory messages on my SE which has 1MB of RAM. I see that I can max out the RAM for less than $3. However, I'm wondering how safe it is since it has a CRT. I wonder if I'll get shocked and die. If I would open the SE, I'd leave it unplugged for a few days first. To get to the RAM slots, would I have to get very close to the CRT? How long should I leave it unplugged? Is there anything else that I should make sure of before opening it? Should I even open it?
Working inside a Compact is perfectly safe so long as you exercise necessary caution around the CRT. Best thing to do is allow it to discharge for a few days, (as already mentioned), and don't turn it on when you're working inside. Also, be careful not to knock the back off the tube as they are awfully easy to break since the glass is quite fragile.
Your SE will certainly appreciate the extra RAM!
Good luck!
Your SE will certainly appreciate the extra RAM!
Good luck!
Macman is totally right! I is not hard to add ram to an SE or other compact mac as long as proper precautions are taked,,,,i have done so many times!
When I do it I also leave to machine of for at least 24 hours, then carefully remove the back cover by backing out the 4 screws holding it in place. Once that is done, carefully unhook the necessary cables, and slide out the motherboard, (and as already mentioned be careful not to break the neck of the crt...it is fragile)!
when you get ready to do it...if you feek you need any advice feel free to touchbase with me and i will try to help in any way i can!
Sacmac
When I do it I also leave to machine of for at least 24 hours, then carefully remove the back cover by backing out the 4 screws holding it in place. Once that is done, carefully unhook the necessary cables, and slide out the motherboard, (and as already mentioned be careful not to break the neck of the crt...it is fragile)!
when you get ready to do it...if you feek you need any advice feel free to touchbase with me and i will try to help in any way i can!
Sacmac
Yeah, obviously you've been convinced to go ahead with the memory install. I've done it on an SE and a Plus.
I wouldn't wear rubber gloves. I think the loss of dexterity would be more dangerous. Go slow. I've found that some of the connections take a little more force than I'm comfortable with given the circumstances. Also, the speaker connection seems easy to screw up on the SE. maybe it's just me. Give yourself plenty of time, and space.
Sounds like you don't need the torx screwdriver, but for reference, I got one at sears in the last 6 months. Craftsman part #47181. 6" T15.
I wouldn't wear rubber gloves. I think the loss of dexterity would be more dangerous. Go slow. I've found that some of the connections take a little more force than I'm comfortable with given the circumstances. Also, the speaker connection seems easy to screw up on the SE. maybe it's just me. Give yourself plenty of time, and space.
Sounds like you don't need the torx screwdriver, but for reference, I got one at sears in the last 6 months. Craftsman part #47181. 6" T15.
You do need a Torx-15 driver for the bucket-retaining screws, even if the deeply-recessed top screws are missing. To reach inside the top recesses the shank must be 8in. long, or more, for comfort. Using a cross-point driver on the case screws risks permanent damage to the Torx indent, and you may also wish to replace the top screws at some future time. The top screws are coarse-threaded (to engage with plastic) and bright-metal, to distinguish them from the dark-metal bottom screws, which are metal-threaded.
As long as you take care to do it when there is no disk-reading occurring, if you crank up the screen brightness to maximum and pull out the mains cable (not switch off the Mac), the high potential across the glass of the CRT collapses instantly. You still need to ground the switched-off Mac when you work inside, of course, for the logic board's sake, and you must also avoid impact with the neck of the CRT.
de
As long as you take care to do it when there is no disk-reading occurring, if you crank up the screen brightness to maximum and pull out the mains cable (not switch off the Mac), the high potential across the glass of the CRT collapses instantly. You still need to ground the switched-off Mac when you work inside, of course, for the logic board's sake, and you must also avoid impact with the neck of the CRT.
de
I think the threat of being shocked doing a RAM upgrade to a compact is overhyped. Sliding the motherboard back to access the memory slots doesn't really put you in close contact with high voltage and there ways to safely discharge the CRT that you can Google for if you still don't feel comfortable doing it.
I've disassembled many compacts many times since I was 14, and I have yet to be shocked. I've replaced pretty much everything except the CRT and analog board at one time or another, including the little fan in a Classic II. I won't lie and say that there's no danger, but I can say that, as long as you're careful, it's unlikely that you'll get zapped. Just stay away from the back of the CRT, the suction cup-looking thing on the top of the CRT (anode) with the thick wire going to a large black or red box (flyback transformer) on the analog board, and the analog board in general, and you'll be fine. Working underneath the CRT where there are no connections to it presents very little chance of zappage, and that's where most of your time would be spent as far as drives and the logic board are concerned.
That does present a problem. There is not very much space to work with. I just had the mobo out of my SE a couple weeks ago to solder on a battery holder. I've had the mobo's out of several of my other compacts removing batteries and haven't had too much trouble with them.
Perhaps someone else has a better technique than my wedge, pinch, and wiggle?
Perhaps someone else has a better technique than my wedge, pinch, and wiggle?
Those connectors can get very tight over time, as you've discovered. 
There's no special trick to removing them, unfortunately. It's just a matter of persistence.
To break the thing somewhat loose, wiggle it from side to side as much as you can manage, while simultaneously pinching the release tab and pulling firmly, all the while taking care not to have a projected trajectory that intersects the neck of the crt. It sounds complicated, but that's only because it is.
There's no special trick to removing them, unfortunately. It's just a matter of persistence.
To break the thing somewhat loose, wiggle it from side to side as much as you can manage, while simultaneously pinching the release tab and pulling firmly, all the while taking care not to have a projected trajectory that intersects the neck of the crt. It sounds complicated, but that's only because it is.
Here are some ways to assist the pinch/wiggle/lift.
Once the floppy and hard drive cables are removed, the logic board, with power and speaker wires still connected, can be unlatched at the sheetmetal tabs at the two lower case screw points and slid back still in its track until the power connector is as far to the rear as the metal chassis cutout allows, giving you a bit more room. Removing the hard drive power and ribbon cables, and the metal frame holding the option slot cable bulkhead (three screws) will give you still more room, but this is probably unnecessary once you have slid the logic board back.
With the computer resting on the analog board side, you can reach in from the opposite side with any long object to press the release latch while you wiggle and pull to start backing out the connector. Once a separation crack is visible and the latch is past the latch point, you can insert a screwdriver in the separation crack between the removable connector body and the base and twist so each subsequent wiggle makes positive progress and the connector body walks out under control.
Once the floppy and hard drive cables are removed, the logic board, with power and speaker wires still connected, can be unlatched at the sheetmetal tabs at the two lower case screw points and slid back still in its track until the power connector is as far to the rear as the metal chassis cutout allows, giving you a bit more room. Removing the hard drive power and ribbon cables, and the metal frame holding the option slot cable bulkhead (three screws) will give you still more room, but this is probably unnecessary once you have slid the logic board back.
With the computer resting on the analog board side, you can reach in from the opposite side with any long object to press the release latch while you wiggle and pull to start backing out the connector. Once a separation crack is visible and the latch is past the latch point, you can insert a screwdriver in the separation crack between the removable connector body and the base and twist so each subsequent wiggle makes positive progress and the connector body walks out under control.
It's too late to help you, so this is mainly for some future poster with a similar predicament. Simms in compacts must come in pairs, so a 1MB configuration automatically tells you that there had to have been 4 simms, not one. The reason is that each simm is 8-bits wide, but the bus is 16-bits wide. So, you need two simms just to handle the full two-byte width.
Equill took a long time getting to it, but when removing the logic board from an SE or other (pre-Colour) compact Mac, you are more likely to kill the Mac than yourself. A few simple concepts:
1. The compact Mac case contains (high voltage, high power) analogue board/PSU, (low voltage, low power) digital circuits and a (high voltage, high power) CRT. All are physically separated but there are cables joining them.
2. Cables going between the CRT and analogue board/PSU *may* contain high voltages and may deliver high power. Ignore them for this exercise, because you don't need to touch them.
3. Low voltage/power cables going anywhere... We don't care about them, because they won't hurt you. Even the connectors from the PSU to the logic board are harmless. Your hands will not go near the high voltage circuit when working with the logic board or floppy drive.
4. For the Plus and related models, the (low voltage, low power) interface from the analogue board to the logic board is a slide-on pin connector. It has an *internal* security tab that needs to be relaxed before you tug on the cables. Just put your thumb between the male and female connectors on the security tab side, and it is easy to pull apart. But still read the notes under point 5.
5. For the SE and SE/30, the (low voltage, low power) interface from the analogue board to the logic board is an evil Molex connector. It has an *external* security tab which does not open easily. The metal work in your particular SE chassis may improve or reduce access to the Molex connector.
Prepare yourself by pulling the Molex power connector between an ATX PSU and motherboard with your eyes closed. *Remove external power before trying this.* The ATX PSU connector is a big Molex with an external tab, but it is functionally similar to a Molex on an SE.
With your eyes closed, could you find the release tab? After pressing the release tab and wiggling a bit, did you feel that the Molex was free? When pulling the connector off, did you feel a progressive release or an "I'm free" release.
6. The "I'm free" release sensation is not desirable in a compact Mac. When your hand suddenly moves, you are likely to hit the neck of the CRT. That means a dead CRT which cannot be rescued. Work slowly and gently when opening plug connectors. If necessary, get some light on the Molex connector to check whether it is open.
7. Before replacing the analogue to logic board cable on an SE or SE/30, remove the tab that secures the Molex connector to the logic board. The interference fit on the Molex connectors is sufficient to ensure a secure connection, and the tab is unnecessary. Leave the remains of the tab to indicate how the connector is intended to be located.
Whether you remember touching the brightness control or not, check that the front-accessible brightness control is not fully anticlockwise. A quote from Apple for AASPs:
'Screen is dark; audio and drive operate:
1 Turn brightness control clockwise.
2 Check video cable connections.
3 Replace analog board.
4 Replace video board.
5 Replace logic board. Retain customer’s SIMMs.
6 Replace CRT.'
de
'Screen is dark; audio and drive operate:
1 Turn brightness control clockwise.
2 Check video cable connections.
3 Replace analog board.
4 Replace video board.
5 Replace logic board. Retain customer’s SIMMs.
6 Replace CRT.'
de
Don't give up quite yet. First, take a break. Watch a dumb sitcom. Eat some donuts.
After you return refreshed from that mental health break, double-check your work. Did you properly reconnect every cable that you disconnected? Make sure that you didn't reverse or offset anything. Also, verify that you properly set the memory configuration jumpers for the amount of ram you now have.
In stubborn cases, when troubleshooting this sort of problem, it's a good idea to roll back to the last known good configuration. Put the original ram back in (reset the jumpers, too), and see if it starts working again. It may be helpful also to disconnect things that are not strictly necessary for basic power up. Disconnect the HD, for instance, and see if that makes a difference.
Check the most common cause of a blank display: degraded solder joints at the 4-pin yoke connector. If they were marginal to begin with, they could've failed as a result of the amount of jiggling you inevitably had to produce to disassemble the thing. It's a good policy to freshen up those connections (and the flyback solder joints, too) while you have it open.
"Never give up. Never surrender." -- Galaxy Quest
After you return refreshed from that mental health break, double-check your work. Did you properly reconnect every cable that you disconnected? Make sure that you didn't reverse or offset anything. Also, verify that you properly set the memory configuration jumpers for the amount of ram you now have.
In stubborn cases, when troubleshooting this sort of problem, it's a good idea to roll back to the last known good configuration. Put the original ram back in (reset the jumpers, too), and see if it starts working again. It may be helpful also to disconnect things that are not strictly necessary for basic power up. Disconnect the HD, for instance, and see if that makes a difference.
Check the most common cause of a blank display: degraded solder joints at the 4-pin yoke connector. If they were marginal to begin with, they could've failed as a result of the amount of jiggling you inevitably had to produce to disassemble the thing. It's a good policy to freshen up those connections (and the flyback solder joints, too) while you have it open.
"Never give up. Never surrender." -- Galaxy Quest
There are several cables that do the job. One goes to the small square PC board at the base of the crt. That one is easy to dislodge, so check it carefully. Make sure it's seated firmly. It also marginally protects the "exhaust nipple" used to seal the crt after pumping down to a hard vacuum. If the nipple gets cracked, you'll hear an angry hiss for a few tense seconds as air fills the crt, killing it. If you didn't hear the hiss, you didn't crack it.
Another is the 4-wire "yoke" connector I mentioned earlier. There's an assembly around the neck of the crt -- that's the yoke. A four-wire cable runs from it to the analog board. The connector end that resides on the analog board is infamous for failing over time. Just resoldering -- with fresh solder -- the four joints often fixes things. While you're at it, refresh the semicircle of flyback transformer connections, too. All of these joints can fail in ways that are not obvious to the naked eye -- hairline cracks can be very small, so just solder, even if you don't think there's a need. Can't hurt, and it could help.
Yet another is the wide connector that you found difficult to pull out. That conveys signals between the analog board and the logic board. Make sure that it's seated properly. Make sure that it's not shifted by one pin, and make sure that in your efforts to remove it that no wires got pulled loose out of the assembly (rare, but it happens).
Hope the Pop 'Ems were tasty. Now you're ready for some troubleshooting!
Another is the 4-wire "yoke" connector I mentioned earlier. There's an assembly around the neck of the crt -- that's the yoke. A four-wire cable runs from it to the analog board. The connector end that resides on the analog board is infamous for failing over time. Just resoldering -- with fresh solder -- the four joints often fixes things. While you're at it, refresh the semicircle of flyback transformer connections, too. All of these joints can fail in ways that are not obvious to the naked eye -- hairline cracks can be very small, so just solder, even if you don't think there's a need. Can't hurt, and it could help.
Yet another is the wide connector that you found difficult to pull out. That conveys signals between the analog board and the logic board. Make sure that it's seated properly. Make sure that it's not shifted by one pin, and make sure that in your efforts to remove it that no wires got pulled loose out of the assembly (rare, but it happens).
Hope the Pop 'Ems were tasty. Now you're ready for some troubleshooting!
I never heard a hiss. [
] ]'> Right now, I'm trying to put it back together with old RAM, and floppy/hard drive disconnected. While I was doing that the other end of that hard-to-get-out wiggly plug with a clip came out from the other end by itself. The looseness may have been causing the problem. But I don't know where the other end of that plug plugs in.
] ]'> Right now, I'm trying to put it back together with old RAM, and floppy/hard drive disconnected. While I was doing that the other end of that hard-to-get-out wiggly plug with a clip came out from the other end by itself. The looseness may have been causing the problem. But I don't know where the other end of that plug plugs in.Congratulations on getting it back up and running! Score another success for persistence (and TV + junk food).
Don't worry about the CRT. I know it's a scary thing (because many people make it out to be that way), but really, there is no danger as long as you have pulled out the power cord. All the HV bits are extremely well insulated, further reducing the already-small likelihood of a human-HV encounter.
This is a good opportunity to put a multi-GB drive into that compact. Go find one, partition into <2GB chunks, and you'll have a sweet little mac!
Don't worry about the CRT. I know it's a scary thing (because many people make it out to be that way), but really, there is no danger as long as you have pulled out the power cord. All the HV bits are extremely well insulated, further reducing the already-small likelihood of a human-HV encounter.
This is a good opportunity to put a multi-GB drive into that compact. Go find one, partition into <2GB chunks, and you'll have a sweet little mac!
I'd like to back up what Tom Lee said about the CRT...although i've never worked in an SE, i've had the HD out of my Classic II many times, and i never ever had to handle the CRT, or put my hands anywhere near it, and it has the HD in the exact same place as the SE. Even so, the HV parts you'll be working near are very well insulated...i've touched the back of a few CRTs before, and no shock. Just keep away from obviously uninsulated parts (such as the deflection coil) and you should be fine. Even so...just touching the back of a CRT isn't really going to give you that great a risk of shock...lets face it, you can't get a shock by touching the glass on the front of a CRT, right? Same for most of the glass at the back.