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Composing music with Macintosh SE

Composing music with Macintosh SE 68k 21 posts Feb 17, 2008 — Feb 21, 2008
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#1 Sun, 17 Feb 2008 - 23:59
Hello,

Just bought an old Macintosh SE, and I was wondering if there is any software around where you can compose music with it.

I heard about 'Digital Perfomer' and 'Opcode Studio Vision'... Are they still availible for the SE?

And is it possible to hook up some of my MIDI-istruments to the MSE?

#2 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 01:08
I haven't tried composition on the SE, but MIDI is a sure thing. From what my musician friends have told me, the SE was very popular because it was compact, self-contained and had more than enough horsepower to handle MIDI.

#3 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 01:11
Ohh I'd be interested too as my Roland XP-10 has a Mac DB-9 serial port on it!

#4 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 01:49
One of the first Mac SE's I picked up had Music 2.5 on it. You could write notes and have the SE play it back to you. Had a lot of options and a nice piano keyboard. You could put 2 mice on the SE and use them at the same time on the music keyboard. The SE could could make music and you could probably get the talking Moose to sing. :)

#8 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 06:54
If you're serious about it I would recommend going with MOTU Performer and Composer. I started using it on a Mac Plus in 1986 with an Apple MIDI interface which drove a Synclavier II and various tone boxes. MOTU was considered state of the art at the time for the Macintosh and for the technology, you will get the best results with it. The only difference between the Plus and SE is that the hard drive was built in. Otherwise the same limitations apply. Max out the RAM cause you'll need all of it to get as many voices as possible. The built-in Mac sound capabilities limits the number of voices you can have, but again if you are serious, you'll need outboard gear anyway. It uses a standard MIDI interface so voices are only limited by RAM and file size.

#9 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 17:31
woah, thanks for all the tips!

But I have a couple of questions:

1) Does anyone know what software orginal was used on the machine in the 80's? I heard about 'Music 2.5' and 'Musicworks' but maybe there is more.

2) How do I connect my MIDI-instruments on the SE?

In the first youtube video (posted above) I see they are yousing some kinda plug.

Doe they still excist? Or are there any (cheaper/better/newer) 'devices' to hook up your MIDI-isntruments

Well, now it's time to set up an internet-connection on the SE.

Woah, that will be a culture shock for the poor thing 8-o

#10 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 17:33
Depending on the MIDI keyboard or sontroler - some have a mac DB9 connector already on them, so all you would need is a mac serial cable.

#11 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 17:37
How do I know if it has one? [:I] ]'>

The SE came with no manuels

(My MIDI device (Roland V-drum just for now) came with lots of manuels)

#12 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 18:34
How do I know if it has one? [:I] ]'> The SE came with no manuels

(My MIDI device (Roland V-drum just for now) came with lots of manuels)
Click to expand...
No, he's referring to the synths. Some synths came with direct serial ports that could interface directly to a Mac that had a serial connection, similar to how you find synths now with USB ports so that they can interface directly to a computer with USB. If your synth doesn't have one of these other than the MIDI ports, then you would need a MIDI interface with a serial connection that would connect to that Mac. I have an old one that I use with my Quadra called the MidiMan miniMacMan (MidiMan is now known as M-AUDIO). I also have an M-AUDIO MidiSport USB 2x2 interface for use with my iMac G5.

You can find schematics for building your own 1x1 MIDI interface on the web, but you can still find some of the Mac-serial MIDI interfaces on eBay and from some vendors (even some with multiple MIDI ins and outs).

#13 Tue, 19 Feb 2008 - 05:50
1) Does anyone know what software orginal was used on the machine in the 80's? I heard about 'Music 2.5' and 'Musicworks' but maybe there is more.
Click to expand...
MOTU came out with Composer which incorporated Performer (later a separate product) in 1985. It was the definitive MIDI based composing system and still is one of the top choices among all professional musicians today (Digital Performer). Limited only by RAM it could run on a 128K & 512K.

So I don't know what you are asking. MusicWorks came out in 1984 and was one of the first music writing programs available for the Mac and was often bundled with 128Ks. However it was geared more toward the casual home user than a serious professional and has related limitations (i.e. no MIDI capabilities). Composer came next and by the end of 1985, there were a dozen programs, though none caught on as well as Composer and Performer.

You are however, dealing with an 86/87 era Mac which by that time some of the earlier programs had gone belly-up and you had a lot more RAM making much more sophisticated programs practical. That's why I say for modern MIDI use, Performer is the way to go. It is applicable to the era of your Mac and is still the standard for professional musicians today.

If you are just looking for a list of music programs from 1985-1986, among the popular originals:

MusicWorks

Professional Composer

ConcertWare

WaveEdit

MacMusic

Delux Music Construction Set

MacMIDI Softwware (MIDIWorks & MegaTrack)

MIDI Composer

Music Shop

MusicType

SongPainter

StudioMac

See this:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0148-9267%28198523%299%3A3%3C52%3AMSFTAM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-M&size=SMALL&origin=JSTOR-reducePage

AND THIS:

http://www.semaphorecorp.com/ss/ss25.html

#14 Tue, 19 Feb 2008 - 18:43
Oke, Only one question remains,

Where is the 'input' into the Mac SE?

In the youtube-video, There is a input on the backside (right onder the 'handle')

well... there is nothing there on my MSE

#15 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 - 06:53
kinine, don't know how much more clear we can make it. You need a MIDI interface. The SE does NOT have a built-in MIDI input port. The YouTube clip you are referring to depicts a MIDI interface which has been positioned conveniently under the handle, but it is not part of the Mac. Coming out of it is a MIDI cable going to an instrument. The other cable is going into one of the Mac's serial ports. In some cases the MIDI device will have a built-in interface, easily discerned by a mini DIN-8 port or as wood_e notes, a DE-9 serial port. MIDI connectors are DIN-5 only.

What you need MINIMUM:

1) Mac

2) MIDI interface

3) MIDI device

4) Macintosh compatible MIDI software

#16 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 - 08:39
HA oke, I get it :)

Yeah I was a bit confused, bit I'll guess I can figure it out now.

Thanks for all the information!

#17 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 - 20:01
MOTU came out with Composer which incorporated Performer (later a separate product) in 1985. It was the definitive MIDI based composing system and still is one of the top choices among all professional musicians today (Digital Performer). Limited only by RAM it could run on a 128K & 512K.
Click to expand...
Well you convinced me at least. I don't see a copy on eBay, or MOTU's website. Any chance this is out there as abandonware?

#18 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 - 01:12
MOTU discontinued the old programs years ago. I have Professional Composer 2.1, the date on it is 1987. eBay has been very dry lately, but don't give up on it. You just have to be patient sometimes when looking for this stuff.

I'd also check merchants such as B&R Computer and Herb's Mac Stuff, they often have a better selection than what you'd find on eBay at any given time despite having slightly higher prices (although they are worth it--I've bought a lot of vintage stuff from both and highly recommend them). Also, don't hesitate to put an ad in the classifieds here, someone may have one of the programs you're looking for.

#19 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 - 02:58
Scott, I think you will need Performer as well since any built-in playback was removed from Composer by then to accommodate the growing size of each program. To playback a Composer file you had to open it in Performer. Will you confirm that? I think it was only the 1984 versions that had a built in sequencer software, if at all. Performer came out in 85, but I don't remember when exactly they separated them completely.

I have copies of both somewhere, but I do not recall where they are at the moment. Also MOTU used a rather rigorous copy protection scheme, but I think I was able to make images using Copy II Plus. Keep looking on your own, since it'll take me some time to dig up mine.

#20 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 - 04:35
Yes, Professional Composer is only for writing manuscripts out, but that is actually all I need music notation for. I don't have any MIDI instruments.

My Composer is 2.1 from 1987, a single 800K disk, and does not have any playback built in. (That's what my upright piano is for!) And yes, the disk is copy-protected. It requires the insertion of the original every time it is run. I always keep my master next to my Plus so I can stick it in whenever necessary.

What I like about Professional Composer is the fact that it can easily create a SATB chorus score with great ease.

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