Thread
new to me 7600
Just saved a 7600 I got it for 15$
I bid on the other 2 meg vram and 4 sticks of 5v dimm.
I also have a 400 mhz g3 coming
i will run 8.6 or 9.1 for usb support what would you advise?
I bid on the other 2 meg vram and 4 sticks of 5v dimm.
I also have a 400 mhz g3 coming
i will run 8.6 or 9.1 for usb support what would you advise?
Awesome!
Download OS9Helper and get 9.2.2 installed on that. 9.2.2 has a few new features and bug fixes and is noticeably speedier than 9.1. Most drivers that still offer support for 9 also require 9.2.2, such as the latest ATi drivers.
I am going to turn it into a cad station
i am adding the zip drive to the 7600
I know the radeon 7000 will work in this machine ? will the 7500 also work?
or a rage 128 their cheap
I also have a radeon 9800 pci in my b&w would it work?
the next task is os9 helper to get to 9.2.2 :b&w:
michael
i am adding the zip drive to the 7600
I know the radeon 7000 will work in this machine ? will the 7500 also work?
or a rage 128 their cheap
I also have a radeon 9800 pci in my b&w would it work?
the next task is os9 helper to get to 9.2.2 :b&w:
michael
If you can find either a Mac edition or are comfortable flashing video cards, then a 7500 would work.
A 9800 in PCI? I never heard of that before. The fastest Radeon in PCI has always been the 9200 or a flashed 9250. The 9500-9800 have always been AGP. The only cards comparable to a 9500-9800 are flashed nVidia FX5x00 or 6200 cards in PCI.
A 9800 in PCI? I never heard of that before. The fastest Radeon in PCI has always been the 9200 or a flashed 9250. The 9500-9800 have always been AGP. The only cards comparable to a 9500-9800 are flashed nVidia FX5x00 or 6200 cards in PCI.
Buy a cheap, fast Ultra 3 SCSI card like ATTO UL3S and modern high RPMs hard drive. I use in my PM7600/G3/400 18GB Seagate Cheetah 15k3 (15000 RPMs) and it is "wicked fast" - not only seek timing is minimal, but read transfer averages at 65 MB/s (measured using ATTO Tools) - 6x more than builtin SCSI and more than 2x as fast as Sonnet Ultra 66 IDE controller. Both things - controller and disk you can buy cheaply off ebay.
Don't you need special SCSI cards to be able to boot a Mac from them?
Yes, you do, it's a matter of proper Mac-aware firmware. And ATTO cards are among these few bootable on Mac, you can download latest software and firmware for them from www.attotech.com I bought my Atto UL3S, capable of transfers up to 160 MB/s for about $10, they are quite popular and easy to spot and buy for a low price.
So any ATTO PCI SCSI card will work (in an Old World Mac)? You don't need a special Made-For-Mac version?
No, contrary to Adaptec ATTO produced one type of card for all systems, at the same price. It is only a matter of firmware. There was no special designation "for Mac" coming with mine, I just flashed it with the latest firmware available for OS 9 and it works like a charm now 
That is very good to know. Thank you!
I got some dead-quiet 80 pin HDs a wee while ago, and it'd be nice to quiet down some of the olde machines with them.
I got some dead-quiet 80 pin HDs a wee while ago, and it'd be nice to quiet down some of the olde machines with them.
you are correct i have a 9200 pci i drifted off when i wrote that sorry
[:I] ]'>
so the atto card is used for an external hd or does it have a connection for internal hd.
[:I] ]'>
so the atto card is used for an external hd or does it have a connection for internal hd.
Cheetah is mounted internally via good LVD cable with terminator ;-) Mind you however that 15 k rpms disks have quite strong vibrations, so can be quite audible although their own acoutics are not on high levels
whilst digging through my stuff i found and adaptec pci to scsi card
it has a 68pin external and a 50 pin internal connectors
it is an aha-2930cu
rom version 4.2
and i have a 68 pin scsi running now in the 7600 with that 68 to 50 pin adaptor.
it looks like i need a cable to go from the hd 68 pin to 50 pin on the card.
does this sound right?
it has a 68pin external and a 50 pin internal connectors
it is an aha-2930cu
rom version 4.2
and i have a 68 pin scsi running now in the 7600 with that 68 to 50 pin adaptor.
it looks like i need a cable to go from the hd 68 pin to 50 pin on the card.
does this sound right?
2930 at max transfer of 20 MB/s would be about 2x faster than internal fast SCSI of 7600. But it still would be 3x slower than modern wide SCSI disks are capable of What exact model of disk do you have in 7600 now?
What exact model of disk do you have in 7600 now?
i have a seagate cheetah st318305lc hard drive with a plug on card to adapt from 68 pin "i think" to 50 pin
thanks for the advice.
michael
thanks for the advice.
michael
That is really good to know. Thanks [ATTO produced one type of card for all systems, at the same price. / I just flashed it with the latest firmware available for OS 9 and it works like a charm now
] ]'>Then this drive works as a narrow SCSI device and 2930 sould be more than enough. To achieve faster transfers (> 60 MB/s) you'd have to change controller to Ultra 3 SCSI type, LVD cable and LVD capable disk
what about using a sonnet tempo 133 ide card. that would run close to the 160 mbps correct. it would be much faster than the scsi 2 or am i wrong. i have several ide 133 drives and a tempo 133.
also i have been looking for the atto card and they are like $200+ what gives?
also i have been looking for the atto card and they are like $200+ what gives?
Look around, there are some deals on ebay for ATTO cards. I snagged an UL2D (64 bit PCI for B&Ws for $6 shipped a little while ago).
You realy want an acard ATA/66 or better IDE PCI card, and they can be had for $40 or so. Sure you can get a SCSI 160 card and 15K RPM drive but its for a 7600, you don't need all that speed. Decent EIDE HDs even the old 40GB ones are much faster then the stock SCSI+Drive the 7600 came with, and EIDE drives are easier to find.
You realy want an acard ATA/66 or better IDE PCI card, and they can be had for $40 or so. Sure you can get a SCSI 160 card and 15K RPM drive but its for a 7600, you don't need all that speed. Decent EIDE HDs even the old 40GB ones are much faster then the stock SCSI+Drive the 7600 came with, and EIDE drives are easier to find.
You're wrong. 133 MB/s is only teoretical max speed of this IDE incarnation. You'l never achieve this speed just because it's maximum speed of 32-bit PCI bus and you need part of this throughput for other PCI activity. And no single IDE disk can achieve this speed. As a matter of fact single Serial ATA disks in my G5/dual core/2 GHz achieve about 50 MB/s according to Xbench.
Be patient and you'll find it cheaply. Look for UL3S, UL3D, UL2D like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-5-ATTO-ExpressPCI-UL3D-EPCI-UL3D-000-Host-Adapter_W0QQitemZ110263780395QQihZ001QQcategoryZ90716QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Yup, no problems finding these, and 64-bit versions work in 32-bit PCI too ;-)
I have Tempo Ultra-ATA 66 and I was using it before ATTO. No comparison. Modern IDE disk connected to this card didn't achieve even half of read and write transfer of Ultra 3 SCSI disk (30 vs 67 MB/s read and 19 vs 38 MB/s write respectively). Add to this shorter seek time of high RPMS SCSI disk which come in account when you'll have somewhat defragmented disk and you'll know why why SCSI is still worth more than IDE...
BTW - I just acquired modern (2005) Fujitsu 73 GB 10000 RMPMs disk for 30$ - extremly fast and plenty of space for use in 7600
BTW - did I mention that SCSI disks usually have much longer MTBF timing - 1200000 hours vs 750000 hours? This means that SCSI disks are usually built using higher quality elements and there's less chance of its failure - important especially when you buy it second hand ;-)
Tell me something, if ATA 133 cards on the PCI bus can't achieve their maximum throughput then how does an Ultra 3 SCSI perform so much faster with a higher theoretical maximum and facing the same PCI bus issues? That defies all logic. The onboard SCSI can't come close to achieving Ultra 3 speeds so how are you getting such high performance out of yours? An Ultra 3 SCSI drive attached to a card on the PCI bus should have the same bottlenecks as an ATA 133 drive and not perform any faster at all.
Well, 67 MB/s achieved by my Ultra 3 SCSI disk is merely half of PCI transfer capabilities (133 MB/s). Why does IDE disk have lower transfer rates - I don't know, perhaps it is my Barracuda 40 GB taken from G4 MDD that is slower, but I don't have other modern IDE disks to test them with Tempo Ultra ATA 66, but judging after results that I got from modern Serial ATA disk in G5 - (WD2000JS - about 50 MB/s according to Xbench), it seems that Ultra 3 SCSI wins.
But if you're pointing to my previous reply on ATA-133 vs. SCSI 160 speed, I can only say that real world disk <-> controller transfer speeds are far from theoretical possibilities. These higher speeds perhaps would make a sense in case of RAID configurations.
But if you're pointing to my previous reply on ATA-133 vs. SCSI 160 speed, I can only say that real world disk <-> controller transfer speeds are far from theoretical possibilities. These higher speeds perhaps would make a sense in case of RAID configurations.
SCSI drivers were never built better then the same companies IDE drives, you paid extra for more QC testing and the longer warrenty.
Be carefull stufffing hot running scsi drives in a 7600 (plastic cased computer), it might overheat.
If you use a newer IDE HD on an ATA card you will see very decent speed out of it. PCI IDE cards tended to have trouble on PCI powermacs, some came with a utility to keep audio/video from stuttering (problem with the PCI bus).
Be carefull stufffing hot running scsi drives in a 7600 (plastic cased computer), it might overheat.
If you use a newer IDE HD on an ATA card you will see very decent speed out of it. PCI IDE cards tended to have trouble on PCI powermacs, some came with a utility to keep audio/video from stuttering (problem with the PCI bus).
great info i am looking for the atto card.
although routing the scsi cable in the 7600 case will be a challenge
cut and hack i suppose?
although routing the scsi cable in the 7600 case will be a challenge
cut and hack i suppose?
Why challenge? I just removed small metal plate from the left side of upper chassis and it created perfect pass through for even quite stiff LVD cable
Can't you just run it through the bottom of the drive assembly like the normal SCSI cables?
i have looked for a plate and found none. The drives are in a box (open top) that rotates over to access the mobo. there are a set of holes for air flow on the left what could be opened up nicley to access the pci slots.
the existing cable routes between the side of this box and the power supply. the distance between them is that of the ribbon cable thickness.
the g3 has a slot added to the bottom of the box to allow the ide cables to get to the drives with out routing between the case and power supply
i guess i am not following
[?]
the existing cable routes between the side of this box and the power supply. the distance between them is that of the ribbon cable thickness.
the g3 has a slot added to the bottom of the box to allow the ide cables to get to the drives with out routing between the case and power supply
i guess i am not following
[?]
I found this in manual of Adaptec 2940:
I hope it will be helpful enough
I hope it will be helpful enough