Thread
USB 2 in old world macs
USB 1.1, yes, possibly. Beyond that, your logic is spot on. I don't know which Mac 601 architecture (Piltdown, Catalyst, Cold Fusion, Carl Sagan, TNT) the PowerCurve approximates, but it will have to be PCI rather than NuBus, or no-go at all. Even then it may be a struggle, or a slightly faster struggle with a G3 upgrade installed. And (at least) OS 8.6 installed.
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Support for LaCie USB external peripherals exists in LaCie's Silverlining driver from at least v6.2.1 upwards, and maybe v6.1.x (if such exists). 6.2.1 will not run under/with Mac system software less than v7.5.2. Whether you could use this to attach a USB peripheral successfully is speculative at best. It was not for nothing that I quoted OS 8.6. Fully PPC-native code and the earliest comfortable USB support by Apple comes with that version.
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The OrangeMicro USB2/FW combo card works well in a 7200 with OS 9.1. It should be supported from OS 8.6 on. It is even possible to install a well running OS 9.2.2 on older PowerMacs to have the most recent driver software (use OS9helper). I have tried this with a 7200 and a PB1400 successfully. I found a cheap USB host adaptor (not Mac specific made) working on a beige G3, but _not_ on a 7200.
As Bunsen said: USB2 functionality is not given on system software pre OS X, no matter what the host adapter is capable of.
As Bunsen said: USB2 functionality is not given on system software pre OS X, no matter what the host adapter is capable of.
Bolle and Bunsen have the right answer.
USB 2.0 "High Speed" will only be possible in OS X 10.2 or higher. (I think it's 10.2.6 specifically, but I might be wrong on that one, and it's even possible that there is a hack that lets it work in 10.1.) In OS X 10.0, 10.1 (from what I recall,) or OS 8.1 to 9.2.2, any USB card that works will operate at USB 1.1 "Low" or "Full" speed. Before OS 8.1, USB isn't possible at all. (I seem to recall a hack that made it work in 8.0, but I can't find any reference to it now, and I know it won't work in 7.x.)
USB 2.0 "High Speed" will only be possible in OS X 10.2 or higher. (I think it's 10.2.6 specifically, but I might be wrong on that one, and it's even possible that there is a hack that lets it work in 10.1.) In OS X 10.0, 10.1 (from what I recall,) or OS 8.1 to 9.2.2, any USB card that works will operate at USB 1.1 "Low" or "Full" speed. Before OS 8.1, USB isn't possible at all. (I seem to recall a hack that made it work in 8.0, but I can't find any reference to it now, and I know it won't work in 7.x.)
iTunes still runs on 10.3, but all of the new iPods officially need 10.4... I'm not sure if that's true though, because my brother uses a new shuffle on 10.3 [I hear iTunes is requiring Tiger or Leopard now.I remember when I got an iPod Shuffle. I had installed a USB 2 card in my AIO, and now that I think back, I probably had one of the oldest supported computers to run that iPod.
] ]'>The current version of iTunes does, yes.I hear iTunes is requiring Tiger or Leopard now.I remember when I got an iPod Shuffle. I had installed a USB 2 card in my AIO, and now that I think back, I probably had one of the oldest supported computers to run that iPod.
/me rocks out with iTunes 2 under OS 9
I'm surprised you're still able to connect.The current version of iTunes does, yes.I hear iTunes is requiring Tiger or Leopard now.I remember when I got an iPod Shuffle. I had installed a USB 2 card in my AIO, and now that I think back, I probably had one of the oldest supported computers to run that iPod.
/me rocks out with iTunes 2 under OS 9
Rocking out to the Apple II's wimpy click speaker beeps? :lol:/me rocks out to the random crackling sounds coming from the speaker of his leaky-capacitor Classic
WHAT NOW
Or, we can take that even further by rocking out to the complete, blissful silence created by the Apple I.
Back in the sunset of OS 9, there was rumor that Orange Micro was going to come out with a USB 2 PCI card with drivers for OS 9. In fact, I swear I heard that there was a demo program of the card. So if you are lucky enough, you might be able to find the tech demo and actually get USB 2 on OS 9. This was about the same time that people were finding the NEC USB chipset on MDDs and thinking that Apple might introduce USB 2 on them in OS X.
Orange Micro did eventually release a USB 2 card for OS X, though.
Peace,
Drew
Orange Micro did eventually release a USB 2 card for OS X, though.
Peace,
Drew
OS X 10.2.8 is required for USB 2.0 functionality. Any machine that can't run or be modified to run 10.2.8 can't use USB 2.0. If your machine has a 601 or 603 soldered to the motherboard, you're not going to be lucky. XPostfacto generally won't install OS X on those. If your CPU is upgradeable, (on a card) you may get it to work, but no guarantees especially where clones are concerned.
USB 2 seems not to be a viable option on old world PowerMacs, as it is not on 68k Macs. But why would one want to use USB on an old machine? Flash memory is the reason, isn't it? Like digital photos, rugged and small removable media, compatibility with recent media to be shared with recent computers and peripherals. All those benefits are available, using recent flash memory with appropriate adapters. Think of a CF card or SD card from your digital camera, SDHC if you want. Any number of card readers and USB adapters is available for recent computers. And a few adapters for classic Macs are available, still. If you are interested in solutions, browse the 68kMLA Wiki.
A good point to start might be http://68kmla.org/wiki/Using_flash_memory.
Please do not forget to contribute results for your own setup on the page http://68kmla.org/wiki/Flash_Drive_Test_Results
A good point to start might be http://68kmla.org/wiki/Using_flash_memory.
Please do not forget to contribute results for your own setup on the page http://68kmla.org/wiki/Flash_Drive_Test_Results
That´s absolutely nuts. Why do we allow Apple to force us leaving our well working systems (like PPC, OS9 or even 68k)
Amiga people heave their USB since years. Also the Atari community was able to get USB 2.0 working at 68k - so where are the coders? Or maybe we should start collecting for USB 2.0 driver development.
http://hardware.atari.org/netusbee/netus.htm
http://nature.atari.org/
Come one, they forced Opera to stop developing their browser for OS9, they provided QuickTime 6.5 for Windows 98 but not for OS9 etc. etc.
So of course my need of actual Software changes slowly (!), but apple forces developers to stop development for older systems. It´s the same with USB 2.0 why isn´t there a driver from apple. Do you really think Sonnet would´nt be able to write one? …
Maybe we shoul´d go to "The Lounge" Forum
Apple creates incompatibilities without any need - that´s fact. OS9 vs. X, PPC vs. Intel, Stop of Classic etc.
And I don´t understand why anybody find´s it o.k. that apple forces developers to stop developing for OS 9!
Why don´t they give OS 9 or at least OS 8.1 for free, like they did with OS 7.5? Because they fear the users of OS 9. At the moment there is the crazy situation if you got an new oldworld mac, that there is no "legal" possibility to us MacOS 9 - and OS X is not supported! That´s the try to force us doing something, like buying a new computer.
P.S. you remember the latest G4 1,25 apple had to sell again because of customers needet an OS9 bootable machine? This G4 is able to boot into OS 9, but only if you have installed OS X ! They are absolutely crazy. Force customers which demand an OS 9 bootable computer to have OSX installed!
No, that´s not what I am demanding! But the Idea of pushing people to buy new stuff is what makes me stay with OS 9 as long as possible and never using OS X.
Apple creates incompatibilities without any need - that´s fact. OS9 vs. X, PPC vs. Intel, Stop of Classic etc.
And I don´t understand why anybody find´s it o.k. that apple forces developers to stop developing for OS 9!
Why don´t they give OS 9 or at least OS 8.1 for free, like they did with OS 7.5? Because they fear the users of OS 9. At the moment there is the crazy situation if you got an new oldworld mac, that there is no "legal" possibility to us MacOS 9 - and OS X is not supported! That´s the try to force us doing something, like buying a new computer.
P.S. you remember the latest G4 1,25 apple had to sell again because of customers needet an OS9 bootable machine? This G4 is able to boot into OS 9, but only if you have installed OS X ! They are absolutely crazy. Force customers which demand an OS 9 bootable computer to have OSX installed!
Just a suggestion: The easiest way to access USB 2 storage media from any pre OS X Mac will be a device like a Network Storage Link for USB 2.0. At a reasonable price you will access harddisk drives or flash memory and get the benefit to share the files via network. No need for new drivers or even USB 2 host adaptors for Nubus - the storage bridge might be cheaper than the Asante Fast Ethernet Nubus Card you might want ;-)
Someone with access to the needed gear might check if such setup is operational for general liberation purposes, please! Results should be published in the 68kMLA Wiki.
Someone with access to the needed gear might check if such setup is operational for general liberation purposes, please! Results should be published in the 68kMLA Wiki.
68k gave way to PPC because of limitations in the family.
PPC gave way to Intel because a powerful enough laptop chip was not on the schedule.
OS 9 and below are not robust secure operating systems and Apple does not have infinite resources despite it's address.
Apple does not force developers, however it does strongly recommend that developers spend their energies on more modern operating systems.
For example I am writing a Web Browser for System 6, Apple have not shown up at the door and dragged me away to Gitmo, infact they did the opposite and let me register a unique creator code for the application.
As a direct comparison, Microsoft NT 4 does not support USB, do I run around screaming blue murder? No, I run Windows 2000 which does support what I want.
I was under the impression that OS 8.x and 9.x also included components that were licensed to Apple as part of the operating system, hence the reason for Apple not releasing them for free. I have read that this is the case with System 7.1, so I'm assuming this is also the case for 8.x up to 9.2.2.
Seriously? 8-o I was hoping for an online referal of someone whos sells Mac stuff or someone from the forum had one they wanted to part with. There isn't a a shop real close by and one is run by a grumpy old guy who really doesn't like selling to people who do their own stuff. I guess he has bad experiences? All the big nearby chains are gone and the one that is left probably would laugh. Besides I like doing business with fellow hobbyists online.
Dewey
Dewey