Thread
MacPlus Server?
A while back there was a site that was using a Mac Plus for a web server. I can't find it.
Anyone know where it is? Or ANY site that is being run on a Mac Plus?
I found one site running on an SE/30 but I'm looking for one using a Mac Plus.
Thanks!
Anyone know where it is? Or ANY site that is being run on a Mac Plus?
I found one site running on an SE/30 but I'm looking for one using a Mac Plus.
Thanks!
The only one I know of seems to have disappeared (tragically replaced by an empty blog)
http://aurejac.dyndns.org/
That used to be the French site running off a Plus with 2 floppy drives.
http://aurejac.dyndns.org/
That used to be the French site running off a Plus with 2 floppy drives.
This one claims to be:
http://www.spacerogue.net/Camneerg/Camneerg.html
And this is the original thread on the subject:
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2183
http://www.spacerogue.net/Camneerg/Camneerg.html
And this is the original thread on the subject:
http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2183
Thanks!!!! [
] ]'>
] ]'>yeah, a few years ago..there were a couple...I think part of the problem was many net providers, no longer supported those machines...
I'm sure there has got to be at least one PLUS somewhere on the planet, doing it's thing....I believe LOW END MAC, for a while, had a plus
doing server stuff, but probably has been retired.
I still read about souped up SE/30's and IIci's...doing the same.
Someone once made the comment..that the SE/30, was one of the best mac (compact) servers, ever....
yeah, a few years ago..there were a couple...I think part of the problem was many net providers, no longer supported those machines...
I'm sure there has got to be at least one PLUS somewhere on the planet, doing it's thing....I believe LOW END MAC, for a while, had a plus
doing server stuff, but probably has been retired.
I still read about souped up SE/30's and IIci's...doing the same.
Someone once made the comment..that the SE/30, was one of the best mac (compact) servers, ever....
I have been thinking about a Plus server for a while now but I'm concerned that having a Plus switched on constantly would bring it to a quick death. Since I only have one Plus (which was my first Mac) I really wouldn't want to risk it.
Currently I'm running an LC 475 web server that lives in a desk drawer - it is ideal because it is small, quiet and uses very little power.
Currently I'm running an LC 475 web server that lives in a desk drawer - it is ideal because it is small, quiet and uses very little power.
URL? What is it running?
Thanks!
Your post reminds me of a thread a long time ago, in which Mac128 wondered if there were a simple way to disable unneeded analog board subcircuits to improve longevity. I'm still waiting to get a round tuit, but once I've acquired one, I'll try to devise a (reversible) method for turning off the video and sweep circuits. That would reduce the load on the power supply to such an extent that leaving the Plus switched on continuously should not be a problem.
http://macman.servebeer.com
It is running System 7 and MacHTTP. Basically the site loosely documents my Mac collection and has sections for my blogs from the last two RetroChallenges. It is going to be expanded soon as I have just installed a 4.5GB SCSI drive in the machine!
The Old Apple Web Server Directory is a good place to start when hunting for 68K servers.
That is a very cool idea. A reversible headless Mac Plus. Neat.
You're waiting!?!? I'm waiting for you to get around to it!
But seriously, I really am. I think it would be a grand contribution to the community.
Nathan
Ok, equant, here's an interim method that might end up being the final method. It doesn't absolutely minimize power, but it provides a large reduction with almost no effort.
The idea is to disconnect L1 (it's the toroidal inductor located at the top edge of the analog board) from C2 (a 4700uF electrolytic; it's also on the top edge of the analog board). Use an SPST switch to restore that connection reversibly. When closed, the Mac works normally. When open, it shuts off power to the CRT filament, horizontal deflection, video and HV circuits. Those are significant power consumers, so disabling those sub-blocks will dramatically reduce the load on the power supply.
About the only unneeded block not disabled is the vertical deflection circuitry. The effort required to shut that off is probably more trouble than it's worth.
Finally, it's a good idea to add a diode across L1. Something like a 1N400X (where X can be any value). Connect it so that the cathode (marked with a band) is connected to the side of L1 that you didn't touch. The diode may not be necessary, but its presence will assure that no sparking will occur when you open the switch, prolonging the life of the latter.
I hope that this verbal description is clear enough to get you going.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: I have not actually tried this procedure, so I can't guarantee that there isn't a hidden gotcha. So proceed with that it mind.
The idea is to disconnect L1 (it's the toroidal inductor located at the top edge of the analog board) from C2 (a 4700uF electrolytic; it's also on the top edge of the analog board). Use an SPST switch to restore that connection reversibly. When closed, the Mac works normally. When open, it shuts off power to the CRT filament, horizontal deflection, video and HV circuits. Those are significant power consumers, so disabling those sub-blocks will dramatically reduce the load on the power supply.
About the only unneeded block not disabled is the vertical deflection circuitry. The effort required to shut that off is probably more trouble than it's worth.
Finally, it's a good idea to add a diode across L1. Something like a 1N400X (where X can be any value). Connect it so that the cathode (marked with a band) is connected to the side of L1 that you didn't touch. The diode may not be necessary, but its presence will assure that no sparking will occur when you open the switch, prolonging the life of the latter.
I hope that this verbal description is clear enough to get you going.
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: I have not actually tried this procedure, so I can't guarantee that there isn't a hidden gotcha. So proceed with that it mind.
Ok, I've got a plus I'm willing to use as a guinea pig, but I won't get around to it until after April 3rd most likely.
How will this impact heat? I was curious, what parts of the plus are generating the most heat? The CPU? CRT? Wouldn't that be another limiting factor for using a plus as a 24/7 server?
Thanks for the head-start Tom.
Nathan
How will this impact heat? I was curious, what parts of the plus are generating the most heat? The CPU? CRT? Wouldn't that be another limiting factor for using a plus as a 24/7 server?
Thanks for the head-start Tom.
Nathan
This procedure should cut the power consumed "a lot" (whatever that means). Shutting off all video-related power consumers (with the sole exception of vertical deflection) is significant. The horizontal and HV circuits run hot, so turning them off can only be a good thing. Shutting off the CRT not only reduces dissipation further, but greatly increases its lifetime (no filament burnout, no screen burn).
As a crude estimate, I'd guess that the power consumed might drop by 40%.
As a crude estimate, I'd guess that the power consumed might drop by 40%.
Since the MacHTTP project got restarted a lot of people are getting their old Macs back on the web.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/machttp
It was the inavailability(?) of the software and lack of support that kept a lot more people from getting their old Macs set up as servers. I couldn't find the old software anywhere for a while. The nearest I could get was Webstar and the current version is being sold as a commercial product and the old 68k machines haven't been supported for a long, long, time.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/machttp
It was the inavailability(?) of the software and lack of support that kept a lot more people from getting their old Macs set up as servers. I couldn't find the old software anywhere for a while. The nearest I could get was Webstar and the current version is being sold as a commercial product and the old 68k machines haven't been supported for a long, long, time.
I had been wondering about MacHTTP for some time now. I'm running it on my Quadra and it's version 2.6. They had been talking about 2.6.1 and even version 3 (which would drop 68K support I believe) years ago but nothing came of it. Even the site that was up before seemed abandoned and was getting spammed horrendously. The only sign of life that I've seen lately is that the page is now only listing the directory that holds the files.
I sure hope that they have actually revived the project. Otherwise, I might just have to move on to a *nix on the Quadra with a light webserver. I would much rather preserve the "Macintosh" part of my Quadra.
The update about it being in CVS is from 2004 but the files show a date of 11/16/2007. Not sure if that's just the date at which the files were put in there.
I sure hope that they have actually revived the project. Otherwise, I might just have to move on to a *nix on the Quadra with a light webserver. I would much rather preserve the "Macintosh" part of my Quadra.
The update about it being in CVS is from 2004 but the files show a date of 11/16/2007. Not sure if that's just the date at which the files were put in there.
Thank you so much! I can't wait to try this out.
It's too bad Apple didn't implement this themselves with the Plus in anticipation of the AppleShare software in order to run a headless system on a compact and conserve heat and power.
Frankly, I can't believe once Jobs was gone that Apple didn't add a fan to the Plus to mitigate the heat related repair costs, but then I guess that might have been admitting the earlier models were actually flawed?
They did. They also added either dual floppy drives or an internal hard drive, along with a few other changes Jobs would have disagreed with (internal slot, for example.)
They called the resulting machine "Macintosh SE"
It didn't make sense to go through and redesign the Plus, since they knew they had this other machine in the works.
There were a number of 3rd parties that offered internal fans for the Plus. They had wires that would clip onto the 12V feeds from the analog board and would mount to the metal frame.
Everybody's a comedian. And if you're not trying to be funny, you're missing the point. First, we're not talking about a re-design, we're talking about adding a fan. As far as that goes the analogue board in the Mac Plus was updated at least twice between 1985 and 87. Second, the M0001 was a notorious overheater and found itself in the shop for repairs quite often. At a time when Apple needed their computers to be reliable adding a fan to the Plus would have done wonders for customer relations. Yes, many third party solutions were available, but how do you say to a customer, "I'm sorry your Mac overheated and died, perhaps you would like to buy a third party fan for it after we repair it?" Or better yet, "we're selling you an under engineered computer, so you might want to buy a fan for it to prevent repairs." That would sure upset me. Also, for many of those repairs, Apple had to eat the cost under warranty, something a cheap, easily added-on fan built-into the sales-price would have significantly lowered. Then, we have the fact that the Plus was sold for a full 3 years after the SE was introduced ... so adding a fan at that point only makes sense.
I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just pointing out that the market recogized exacly what you are saying and offered internal fans for the Plus, 512k, and 128k. If there wasn't a need, why offer it?
The Radius FPD and 16 MHZ accelerator for the Plus included a fan. I put a fan in a Plus myself and found it to be too nosiy. There was an EXTERNAL fan that sat on top of a Plus and sucked air out (MacCool?).
I agree that Apple should have added a $2 fan to the Plus during it's lifetime.
Ah, but the original compacts were designed under the influence of the first coming of Jobs. They were supposed to be a work of art first, a functional computer second.
Yes, you're coming late to the party: Jobs was long gone by the time the Plus came to market and certainly by the time the SE & Platinum Plus with the revised analogue board hit the streets. There was no love lost at Apple to prevent them from sticking a fan in there and mitigating their repair costs.
Aoresteen, you are quite right and I have two of them, a Kensington System Saver and a much more elegant one that fits flush inside the handle area, but I forget the name, maybe MacCool. There were many others, but those are the two most common I have seen. Larry Pina's book has a whole chapter devoted to doing it yourself as I think Tom Lee's paper does ... And don't forget the Mac Chimney. ;-)
No, sorry. The Plus is clearly modeled after the original 128k and 512k machines. Same case, same lack of a fan. Things didn't change until the SE was introduced. Also, Jobs left Apple in September 85, the Plus was released in January 86. Jobs would have still been with Apple at the time the Plus was being developed unless you think Apple could have pulled off designing, testing, marketing and everything else that needs to be done in preparation for a launch of a new product in under 4 months.
If you see how many Plus anyway were used: in a setup together wiht an external HD containing a noise producing fan, many wouldn´t have mind another fan in the case since the myth of the fanless system was broken anyway.
OK, now I'm missing your point. Jobs was out in March '85 when Sculley foiled his failed coup and subsequently stripped him of all duties. The fact Jobs didn't submit his official resignation until September was a technicality, he was already mentally and emotionally out of there, if not physically in an empty office building on the outskirts of the Apple campus. Of course the Plus case and analogue board is the exact same design as the 128 & 512 and the 512K was released in just about the same window from the 128K as the Plus from Jobs being stripped of duties. Either way, adding a fan to that case is a no brainer and as Aoresteen points out, internal upgrades were readily available by third party suppliers with no modifications required. As I pointed out, the analogue board was modified in 86 after the Plus was already released. Sticking a fan in the case at that time even would have been no more difficult for Apple than third party vendors. In fact it would have been easier. Also, Sculley asked Frogdesign to update the Mac Plus case just before the release – this was done completely without Jobs participation and eliminated features that Manock had designed and Jobs had previously approved. So in Jobs' absence, engineering a simple fan for the Plus release would have not been a problem either. So there must have been other factors.
My point is simply that putting a fan in the Plus at anytime, even a small one, would have solved many of Apple's headaches and in Jobs' absence would have been painless to do, especially when they were updating the analogue board to support the additional load anyway. The case did not need any special re-engineering or design modifications to include one. Once the SE was announced, Apple could have used the change to Platinum to add the fan to all of their models across the board, again with no major changes to the existing Plus configuration.
Interesting read the fan thingy and great reasoning Mac128k.
Maybe they wanted to please those folks who thought like Jobs and didn´t want noise at least on one system of the line.
Maybe they simply "forgot" to update it.
maybe with other choices available in their line later, the reasoned that people would like to upgrade to newer models in case of major failure anyway.
I agree, doesn´t sound great my thoughts, but sometimes there might not be a significant reason behind things.
Maybe they wanted to please those folks who thought like Jobs and didn´t want noise at least on one system of the line.
Maybe they simply "forgot" to update it.
maybe with other choices available in their line later, the reasoned that people would like to upgrade to newer models in case of major failure anyway.
I agree, doesn´t sound great my thoughts, but sometimes there might not be a significant reason behind things.