Thread
powerbook duo 2300c
This is one of the big problems with the Duo line as a whole (and not just the 2300). While it doesn't have much in the way of ports it does have an ADB socket and a serial socket (the telephone/printer). If you're not willing to get a docking station (the Duo Dock is big but maybe post a want ad for a mini-dock) then you can hook the serial connection up to another Mac and communicate via good old AppleTalk (just need a common or garden Apple serial/printer cable). It'll run dog slow but it'll work (I know as I transferred all 20 disk images for OS 7.5 onto my first Duo using just the serial cable)
ahh.. so i have no other choice. i tried to use the modem but the previous owner did not install the appropriate control panels for it (modem, tcp/ip etc.).
alright, should i then go for the micro dock according to this article, for it has (or may have) ethernet? i'm guessing there are several types of micro docks. it doesn't state anything about the mini dock and ethernet. could you enlighten me a bit?
alright, should i then go for the micro dock according to this article, for it has (or may have) ethernet? i'm guessing there are several types of micro docks. it doesn't state anything about the mini dock and ethernet. could you enlighten me a bit?
it won't work. one thing is i have no scsi compatible stuff (and i am more willing to buy something that i can easily network with) and the other is that i tried to take it apart but only managed to remove the keyboard and saw frightening stuff underneath. compared to this my powerbook g4's guts are visually appealing and straightforward.
Without the appropriate controls panels then you are kind of stuck.
I've only ever used the micro-docks and can't say that I've come across one that has ethernet (definitely seen them with HDI-20 (floppy) and maybe with HDI-30 (SCSI) and might even have a spare HDI-20 one if I remember correctly - I'll have a check and see if I can dig one out). Unless you have the correct control panels though, getting a micro-dock with ethernet won't do you any good as...no way to install what you need.
EveryMac doesn't list ethernet with the mini-dock but I'm sure that I've seen a pic somewhere that shows what looks like an ethernet socket.
[Edit]Came across a site that mentions that while the official Apple mini-dock didn't have ethernet, docks produced by third party suppliers did come with an ethernet socket[/edit]
thanks a lot, but don't bother looking for an HDI-20 because i have no floppy drive (only an IDE one for my old pc).
ethernet would be the best option since i have loads of classic apps and games, and some don't really like classic and os 9.2.2 on my pbg4. not to mention being able to use almost anybody's internet connection - including my own - would be insanely great.
i am thinking of creating a portable word processing and retro gaming machine to carry around in stead of my pbg4.
and, if i'm not mistaken, chooser and the appletalk control panel are loaded, so i should be able to use ethernet once it's installed. then i can refresh the system and onwards into the winderness.. sorry, i got a little carries away there.
ethernet would be the best option since i have loads of classic apps and games, and some don't really like classic and os 9.2.2 on my pbg4. not to mention being able to use almost anybody's internet connection - including my own - would be insanely great.
i am thinking of creating a portable word processing and retro gaming machine to carry around in stead of my pbg4.
and, if i'm not mistaken, chooser and the appletalk control panel are loaded, so i should be able to use ethernet once it's installed. then i can refresh the system and onwards into the winderness..
sorry, i got a little carries away there.
i have thought of that earlier, but i have no cables (know any haxie to attach an ethernet cable to say.. a PS/2 mouse plug?
) and my oldest mac is a quicksilver g4. quite a sorrowful situation..btw only in theory - since i haven't any modem or ppp control panel - am i right to assume that PPP connection via directly connecting two modems is impossible? (it would make sense if it's called peer to peer protocol but who knows..)
Bzzt nope. Just a serial port marked modem/printer, and a modem if installed (a panel blank if not). For ADB you need a Minidock or Dock of some kind, or an internal hack which involves soldering.
There are some very good documents on the Powerbook Duo series and their docks online, which a little Google should reveal to you. The word "FAQ" can be helpful.
If you have a Dock with SCSI (ie nearly all of them I think) and a SCSI cable with the "Dock" switch on it, and another Mac with SCSI, you can boot the Duo up in "SCSI Disk mode" ie the drive inside it mounts itself as an external drive on the other machine. Drag, drop, install, format to your heart's content.
Yes, indeed you can connect two modem-equipped computers together this way. All you need is a "phone line simulator." In its simplest form, a battery, capacitor and resistor will do the job. Many versions of this basic circuit can be found on the web. An example is http://www.jagshouse.com/modem.html
In some rare cases, a modem may not function with 9V. I've never had one not work with 18V, however, so in the worst case, two 9V batteries should suffice. If you plan to transfer many bytes this way, a non-battery implementation is probably a better choice, but requires just a bit more labor to construct.
thanks, i'll look into it. as for the SCSI disk mode, i'm going to try it as soon as i get another vintage mac and a scsi cable. anyway, interesting info, i didn't know pre-firewire macs can do this.
for now ethernet would be best.
now this is weird. never though it's so simple. if only the previous owner didn't have deleted such essential control panels maybe i could have used ppp's or remote access's (don't know which one) terminal to issue direct commands to the modem.
until i find some way to get ethernet or to use Bunsen's method i'm stuck hard. and i guess even if i were to buy a serial to ethernet adapter it wouldn't do the job.
It's been too long since I dragged a Duo off the shelf and had a look (and I always have mine hooked up to a microdock so there was always one available). Alas, stuck in an office, I had to rely on my obviously shaky memory :I
Apologies for giving out misleading info.
Heh. This thread was the second hit.
Meanwhile, here's the FAQ I was thinking of, Apple's official FAQ, the Wikipedia article, a Charles Moore article about the Duo series on lowendmac.com, as well as an archived article about the Duos which lists every Dock ever made
wow. you beat me in googling. : thanks again, links highly appreciated.
it seems whai i really need is a newer technologies microdock. hope it does not require software to be installed.
btw i just noticed that the system profiler reported a weird thing: internal hd - ATA. this means that it's not SCSI, and if i can figure out how to get it out (it should be documented somewhere) i might be able to put it into my quicksilver and do some installing there. going to try this afternoon.
thanks again, links highly appreciated.it seems whai i really need is a newer technologies microdock. hope it does not require software to be installed.
btw i just noticed that the system profiler reported a weird thing: internal hd - ATA. this means that it's not SCSI, and if i can figure out how to get it out (it should be documented somewhere) i might be able to put it into my quicksilver and do some installing there. going to try this afternoon.
Don't attempt a Duo disassembly and reassembly without a pictorial guide. The ones at ifixit.com are pretty good, but I don't know if they go as far back as the Duos. Someone here might be able to send you the appropriate guide, or at least prompt you with the file name to search for.
Even when you do get it out, you'll need a 2.5" to 3.5" ATA adapter. I reckon you're better off in the long run getting a dock of some kind and a SCSI docking (ie switchable) cable.
Even when you do get it out, you'll need a 2.5" to 3.5" ATA adapter. I reckon you're better off in the long run getting a dock of some kind and a SCSI docking (ie switchable) cable.
don't worry, i won't after have seen what's inside that bastard. maybe only if it's my last chance.
still waiting for that dock.. but if it needs third-party software to work then maybe i'll try to trade the whole powerbook for another - my old dream - a 68k one. preferably a 68LC40 one.
still waiting for that dock.. but if it needs third-party software to work then maybe i'll try to trade the whole powerbook for another - my old dream - a 68k one. preferably a 68LC40 one.
hi all,
i recently bought a 5300c with a farallon en card. now the card does everything but work, despite that it has its own working driver install floppy. under 7.5.3 it is shown in the TCP/IP control panel, but on activating it, it just freezes. under 7.6.1 it doesn't even show up although it's on the desktop.
i even downloaded a newer verion of the driver, installed it, but alas, no effect.
so if anybody else has had this problem, please help me out. if there will be no solution, i'll try to trade it in for a pb serial cable to connect the two 'books and finally get some software installed on the duo via the 5300's floppy drive.
thanks and all the best,
bamdad
i recently bought a 5300c with a farallon en card. now the card does everything but work, despite that it has its own working driver install floppy. under 7.5.3 it is shown in the TCP/IP control panel, but on activating it, it just freezes. under 7.6.1 it doesn't even show up although it's on the desktop.
i even downloaded a newer verion of the driver, installed it, but alas, no effect.
so if anybody else has had this problem, please help me out. if there will be no solution, i'll try to trade it in for a pb serial cable to connect the two 'books and finally get some software installed on the duo via the 5300's floppy drive.
thanks and all the best,
bamdad
One problem I have run into with 5300s is that if you use an older PCMCIA card, it might only have 68k 'Classic Networking' drivers that don't work with on PowerPC; and no PowerPC/OT drivers. (I ran into that issue with WaveLAN, until I found the PPC OpenTransport drivers.)
I loved the Duo series. It may look scary to disassemble but it's actually quite easy. Nevertheless, docks are an easy way to go.
As for all the Etherdocks, yes you do need drivers. I haven't looked in a while but the Ethernet Micodock was one of the most prized of all the docks and it was quite expensive and extremely rare. If you do find one, I have a driver for you.
In the interim, you should definitely get a SCSI microdock, which has an HDI-30 SCSI connector and an ADB connector (like all microdocks).
You will also need either a switchable SCSI adapter or a special 30 pin HDI-SCSI to DB-25 SCSI cable and a DB-25 female-to-female coupler as well as a DB-25 to HDI-30 (29-pin) SCSI peripheral cable. I have never put two powerbooks together where one was in SCSI disk mode. It may not be possible if one of the PowerBooks does not supply termination Power and may require a powered terminator as well. Did they even make HDI-30 to HDI-29 pin cables? The whole process is MUCH simpler with a vintage desktop, then you need just the one cable. I brought my PowerBook 100 back to life through SCSI disk mode via my compact Classic. FYI, The very first PowerBook had SCSI disk mode, but not the early 100 series. Most others have it.
In any event you can install software this way but you have to exercise caution as you must tell your installers what kind of Mac to install for. Or use something like "Wish I Were" to fool the installers into thinking the 5300 is the 2300.
The HDI-20 external floppy & microdock is a nice thing to have, but nowhere near as fast as SCSI disk mode.
The 2300 is a fantastic machine. Given its size and power I would definitely try to get it going again. Like anything worth having it takes a little bit of effort to set it up, but once you do it really pays back. I used my 2300 from 1996 to 2000 when I upgraded to a PowerBook G3 Firewire and continued to use it until about 2003 on a regular basis. In my opinion it is the best looking of all the 90s PowerBooks.
hi,
if this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150233238786) is what you're referring to, i gave it a look, but there's no utp connector. maybe i'm missing something.. or weren't there any utp connectors back then?
if this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150233238786) is what you're referring to, i gave it a look, but there's no utp connector. maybe i'm missing something.. or weren't there any utp connectors back then?
btw, i got the modem to work and uploaded a sys 7.6 from cd and downloaded it to the duo last night. downloaded the 7.6.1 upgrade too. first i installed it, but *surprise* no ppp control panel.
well, no problem, moved the new system folder from the drive root, and re-blessed the former 8.1. nice. downloaded the ot/ppp 1.0 from pure-mac, and began to install 7.6 again. and at this point.. it _froze_.
so now i'm left with a happy mac and the dreaded blinking '?'.
so i need to take out the hd, but to do that i have to remove the top casing. and i just can't get it off.
does anybody know how to get it off properly or any links to a nice guide with pictures..?
well, no problem, moved the new system folder from the drive root, and re-blessed the former 8.1. nice. downloaded the ot/ppp 1.0 from pure-mac, and began to install 7.6 again. and at this point.. it _froze_.
so now i'm left with a happy mac and the dreaded blinking '?'.
so i need to take out the hd, but to do that i have to remove the top casing. and i just can't get it off.
does anybody know how to get it off properly or any links to a nice guide with pictures..?
What good will it do you to remove the drive?
Anyway, assuming you want to go this way, you slide the two hinge covers off, remove the main battery, remove the keyboard including disconnecting the cables, tilt the display right back, and carefully pry the top up - beginning at the top left is usually best. It takes a little force, but not much. The lid has some clips along the front, and one in the battery compartment at the front left. Be careful you don't break these clips if possible, and above all, be careful that you don't break the trackpad ribbon, which WILL happen unless you go very slowly once the lid comes away from the base. There is a ribbon connector on the logic board.
Alternatively, look for the relevant manual, and disassembly instructions here: http://farrer.net/~rbf/files/docs/Apple/
Anyway, assuming you want to go this way, you slide the two hinge covers off, remove the main battery, remove the keyboard including disconnecting the cables, tilt the display right back, and carefully pry the top up - beginning at the top left is usually best. It takes a little force, but not much. The lid has some clips along the front, and one in the battery compartment at the front left. Be careful you don't break these clips if possible, and above all, be careful that you don't break the trackpad ribbon, which WILL happen unless you go very slowly once the lid comes away from the base. There is a ribbon connector on the logic board.
Alternatively, look for the relevant manual, and disassembly instructions here: http://farrer.net/~rbf/files/docs/Apple/
thank you. with your help i made it.
to answer your question: previously someone suggested to take out the hd and stick it in an enclosure or mini-ide (?) to ide adapter of some kind. since that is far more easily obtainable than a scsi minidock, i'll use my g4 and that adapter to put a working system on the drive instead of scsi disc mode.@bunsen: thanks, i'll do that. i've tried all keywords every evening, but saving the search did not occur to me.
hi again,
i was thinking of starting a new topic, but it's about the duo again, so..
i would like to ask for some assistance (again). in the past few months ive been able to get software onto the duo's hard disk (it's only 500 mb, so i'll eventually have to get another one). this involves taking it apart, getting the hd out, putting it into an enclosure and connecting it via usb, and after copying the files, re-blessing the system folder, doing the whole process backwards again.
so i had to pull out the keyboard quite a few times. and recently it partially stopped responding. i can use the command, shift and option keys on both sides, but nothing else. could this be caused by the metal on the keyboard wire tireing? or something more serious? i tried cleaning the connectors (didn't touch the keyboard wires fearing i might rub off more metal) and re-inserting it, zapping pram (with techtool, because opt+apple work, but p+r doesn't), but no effect.
any ideas?
thanks,
bamdad
i was thinking of starting a new topic, but it's about the duo again, so..
i would like to ask for some assistance (again). in the past few months ive been able to get software onto the duo's hard disk (it's only 500 mb, so i'll eventually have to get another one). this involves taking it apart, getting the hd out, putting it into an enclosure and connecting it via usb, and after copying the files, re-blessing the system folder, doing the whole process backwards again.
so i had to pull out the keyboard quite a few times. and recently it partially stopped responding. i can use the command, shift and option keys on both sides, but nothing else. could this be caused by the metal on the keyboard wire tireing? or something more serious? i tried cleaning the connectors (didn't touch the keyboard wires fearing i might rub off more metal) and re-inserting it, zapping pram (with techtool, because opt+apple work, but p+r doesn't), but no effect.
any ideas?
thanks,
bamdad
hm, sad news. i guess i'm not going to find another keyboard easily. btw, i have a fully functional keyboard from a powerbook 5300, i could try inserting it for pinpointing the location of the problem.
do you think that's a viable option?
edit: the connectors are solidly in place, or seem to be. just checked them.
do you think that's a viable option?
edit: the connectors are solidly in place, or seem to be. just checked them.
As you can scarcely make the keyboard worse than it is, why not disassemble it and see if you can fix it? The various layers in it come apart without too much fuss; you begin, as I recall, by pushing the top and bottom sideways in opposite directions. Try cleaning the rubber sheet and especially the mylar sheets with circuitry that you find there. While it's apart, inspect for broken traces that can be repaired easily with one of those circuit pens.
I have a spare 270c Duo keyboard, on which the keyboard action is poor, but which you could possibly use for parts to restore your (much better) 2300c keyboard, assuming the above doesn't work or that the cable is indeed broken. PM if interested.
I still don't understand, however, why you went about removing the drive repeatedly. Even if you don't have a Dock, why not just install software by networking the thing with another Mac over localtalk?
I too really like my 2300c. Have you checked out the videos on www.powerbookduo.com and the brochure on the Duo over at www.macmothership.com ?
I have a spare 270c Duo keyboard, on which the keyboard action is poor, but which you could possibly use for parts to restore your (much better) 2300c keyboard, assuming the above doesn't work or that the cable is indeed broken. PM if interested.
I still don't understand, however, why you went about removing the drive repeatedly. Even if you don't have a Dock, why not just install software by networking the thing with another Mac over localtalk?
I too really like my 2300c. Have you checked out the videos on www.powerbookduo.com and the brochure on the Duo over at www.macmothership.com ?
hi,
i have a feeling that the previous owner (some 10 years ago) took it apart, and wasn't a bit concerned about damaging it. the end of the wires are bent as if someone was trying to pull out the keyboard by force. the connectors, although, are in good shape, and show no damage. i'd like to see how it works with the 5300 keyboard (trying tonight), and in the meantime i'll clean it carefully.
thanks for the offer, if the keyboard or the wiring turns out to be the problem, i'll contact you and we'll make a deal.
to be honest, i don't have a clue how on to connect the duo to any of my macs. they all have modern ethernet ports, and the duo has only a modem (dams slow, and only works with its own software: 'powerport' or something like that) and a printer port. i don't even have wires with appropriate plugs.
i love this little machine, and hate to see it in such a condition. i'll take a look at the links, thanks for those too.
edit: powerbookduo.com is down..
i have a feeling that the previous owner (some 10 years ago) took it apart, and wasn't a bit concerned about damaging it. the end of the wires are bent as if someone was trying to pull out the keyboard by force. the connectors, although, are in good shape, and show no damage. i'd like to see how it works with the 5300 keyboard (trying tonight), and in the meantime i'll clean it carefully.
thanks for the offer, if the keyboard or the wiring turns out to be the problem, i'll contact you and we'll make a deal.
to be honest, i don't have a clue how on to connect the duo to any of my macs. they all have modern ethernet ports, and the duo has only a modem (dams slow, and only works with its own software: 'powerport' or something like that) and a printer port. i don't even have wires with appropriate plugs.
i love this little machine, and hate to see it in such a condition. i'll take a look at the links, thanks for those too.
edit: powerbookduo.com is down..
Worked until recently....
Anyway, the same clips are on youtube. Just search on youtube for powerbook duo apple commercial or the like and they should come right up.
As for networking, you urgently need to do some reading on the subject of localtalk. Localtalk networking is simple, and is built into the Duo, like every other Mac of its time. If you have another Mac with a printer port, the two machines can be networked with a standard cable. You can then (generally, not always) find a way to install software by mounting disks etc. from the other machine, or by copying the installer files to the Duo. It's slow, but it works. Very basic guide:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dbl0www1/Well_connected_Mac/serialguide/serial.html
Anyway, the same clips are on youtube. Just search on youtube for powerbook duo apple commercial or the like and they should come right up.
As for networking, you urgently need to do some reading on the subject of localtalk. Localtalk networking is simple, and is built into the Duo, like every other Mac of its time. If you have another Mac with a printer port, the two machines can be networked with a standard cable. You can then (generally, not always) find a way to install software by mounting disks etc. from the other machine, or by copying the installer files to the Duo. It's slow, but it works. Very basic guide:
http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dbl0www1/Well_connected_Mac/serialguide/serial.html
well, after hours of tinkering with the keyboard, it finally seems that the wires are the real problem. sometimes the function keys work, sometimes they don't. so i'll have to cut a bit off the end of the wires, and use some sandpaper or a knife to connect the metal part to the connectors.
the 5300 keyboard doesn't work either: one of the wires has to be inserted upside down and even then it does nothing.
@beachycove: i'll read this in the near future, thanks, but i think you fail to see the point. you see, i have no other mac with a printer port, or in fact any of these old connectors (lpt, scsi, you name it). i only have a g5, a quicksilver g4, and a first gen imac. and they all have only ethernet. the powerbook 5300 i have is only for parts, since its display is broken, and i guess there's a serious motherboard problem too, 'cause no matter what i do, it won't even get to the startup chime. belive me, if i'd have another mac with a printer port, i wouldn't even bother taking the duo apart, since i'm not an expert in hardware.
the 5300 keyboard doesn't work either: one of the wires has to be inserted upside down and even then it does nothing.
@beachycove: i'll read this in the near future, thanks, but i think you fail to see the point. you see, i have no other mac with a printer port, or in fact any of these old connectors (lpt, scsi, you name it). i only have a g5, a quicksilver g4, and a first gen imac. and they all have only ethernet. the powerbook 5300 i have is only for parts, since its display is broken, and i guess there's a serious motherboard problem too, 'cause no matter what i do, it won't even get to the startup chime. belive me, if i'd have another mac with a printer port, i wouldn't even bother taking the duo apart, since i'm not an expert in hardware.