I got hosed.

Have a look for the CUDA switch, if it has one. Pressing it may help it to recover as occasionally G4s can exhibit this problem which is solved with a simple CUDA reset.

That's a terrible packing job. If that had gone cross country it would just be a pile of dust with some metal shards sticking out of it

What horrible packaging!

Best of luck getting the Mac up

If the seller does not respond I would file a paypal and e-bay dispute.

If the seller does not respond I would file a paypal and e-bay dispute.

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And shred him mercilessly in feedback.

Here's what the packing looked like when I opened it...

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That is absolutely moronic. Hang on to that photo - you're going to need it.

I once received a rare 1980s analogue synthesiser from over 1000 miles away. It was packed in ONE (count them, 1) layer of box cardboard, made by stuffing two boxes over each end and joining them together with tape. No foam - that was it. Miraculously, when it got here, some of it even worked. > /edit/ and this was from a music store, no less.

Some people just don't have two brain cells to rub together.

Also - don't spend another cent on fixing that machine. Seller marketed it to you as working, and packed it like that? They are at fault. It's full refund with extreme prejudice time.

Got a link to the auction?

Here's the auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110272238208&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

I tried the CUDA switch and even alt-ctrl-shift-power button. Nothing. I'm still doing my inspecting of the computer looking for anything out of the ordinary. These power supplies are so outrageously steep I'd hate to buy one and have that not be it. I'm still trying to recoup the cost of the computer.

I hate the words "as-is" in an auction. I generally don't buy because of that but the feedback for this seller - WAS - 100%. I found comfort in that...along with the computer only being hours away.

Hm. I note that the word "working" subtly fails to make an appearance in the description. Unless this seller is a real stand up guy, you could have done your dough. Approach him politely, explain that you're not happy with the packaging, she no work, may have died in transit - and see what he says.

What's the point in shipping something with insurance if it's sold "as is"?

Get hold of a multimeter and the pinout for the power supply. Pull the PS-motherboard plug, short the +5VSB (standby power signal) to a ground pin and see if the PS starts up. Then check each pin for the correct voltage.

If that tests out all good, sounds like a bad motherboard.

If it's a dead PS, try an ATX conversion rather than an expensive genuine Apple PS. It's a bit of work, but it's not too bad. Then at least you won't be out a huge amount of money (again) if the motherboard is dead as well as the PS.

Meh. You should be able to get something back on the video card, RAM, etc if you part it out.

But ... before you panic completely ...

Remove the motherboard battery and the mains power. Make sure all the cards, RAM, CPU etc are fully seated. Check for any loose jumpers and cables. Then hold down the CUDA for a full minute. Check the voltage on the battery before putting it back. And see if it springs to life then.

Even with out specifically saying "working" any reasonable person would take that description to mean a working and functional machine. "preloaded" software implies it as well. I see it stated insured shipping - I hope that's the case. Good luck, I hope you get this settled in your favor

Although this item was sold "as is", the seller also said it "boots in Mac OS 9...", but obviously, it doesn't boot in that, or anything else. Who knows, maybe that can serve as a loophole for you.

But is there a fuse in there somewhere? I've had instances were fuses simply failed from the gear being moved around. The wire in there gets stressed from years of heating and cooling and all it takes is some bumping around to break it.

If the seller doesn't reply within a week, I'd file a PayPal dispute (there is a time frame that you must do it in). PayPal is very good about getting refunds. When you state the problem to PayPal just be specific but don't type out a novel....heh Make sure to reference things as stated in the auction listing.

If the seller does indeed reply and his/her response is not to your liking-- I'd still file the PayPal dispute.

Good luck!

Bunsen, thank you so much for your time on this post! The term "working" was so heavily implied in the auction that you are correct - it never actually says it anywhere. I agree, obviously, with stevep. The auction implied everything and delivered me a dead machine. If the machine was dead when it was sent there's no "oops..I forgot to put that." They just wanted to pull one over on me.

But, forget that! I'll see what I can do to work things out financially with them. I'm seriously worried this machine has MULTIPLE problems, making it harder to track down...and more costly.

I've combed over the system visually. One thing troubles me. I don't know what inside the machine could have hit this chip but I've got a cracked solder joint on a chip near where the power supply plugs into the board. One side seems to be completely off, the other has been bent. I just don't see this chip as the end all though. Surely one chip wouldn't keep the system from turning on at all.

BTW - The moral support has been nice. I'm trying not to wig out.

TheNixer: please post pics of the damage - might give us a better idea on what's at fault here (and if repairable).

JB

But ... before you panic completely ...

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There is one small demur from Bunsen's otherwise excellent suggestion to reset the MLB, which should be done before anything else when the Mac fails to power-up. With the exception of the PCI Graphics, the G4 towers have a PMU, which is not the same as a Cuda. The PMU button must not be pressed more than once, and it must not be pressed for more than a second. Doing it the correct way initiates a sequence of events, by contrast with a Cuda switch which beavers away for as long as the switch is held in.

The PMU is a computer-within-the-computer, with its own memory, software, firmware, I/O, two crystals and a CPU. It is also extremely sensitive to static electricity. If the PMU is not enabled to function correctly, ie it is crashed by more than one press or a bouncing switch (which it interprets as a second press of the switch), it will go into hysterics, one result of which is to flatten your battery in 24-48hr, and another is to need a complete reset of the MLB again.

And further, when you replace the battery (which must show between 3.3 and 3.7V) after an MLB reset, you must wait at least 10sec before you press the PMU switch.

de

Okay, first off here's a quick video of the chip in question:




Secondly, I didn't stand on the PMU button but it was held for longer than a second. I'm not exactly sure how to completely reset the main logic board but I think I'll start a list of things I need to do to this computer.

I don't have a voltmeter but my best friend does and I'm going to run the computer up to him to test the power supply and have a look a the chip. I'll start there and continue down the list before I start forking out more cash to get this computer running again.

No response from the seller as of yet.

MLB resetting involves no more than grounding the Mac, removing mains power and removing the battery, and allowing it to stand thus for 10min. or more. All is forgotten unless it is in ROM, somewhere.

The mains cable can be used for the grounding if the GPO (power-point, wall socket) is switchable to remove AC from the cable, and grounded separately from the neutral line.

de

Equill, thank you!

Here's the response from the seller:

Hi Jeff. I'm sorry to hear it's not working. It was definitely working when it left. As a matter of fact, it was being used as a server up until 2 days before it was listed. You may want to try another power cable, that was a random cable I grabbed out of a box. You may also want to try reseating the RAM and/or CPU, it's not uncommon for them to come loose in shipping.

As for the shipping charge, it was a bit much. I estimated the charge based on shipping to California which would have came to $56. I intended on refunding the difference since I didn't pay a dime for the packing but my wife gave birth yesterday so I didn't get around to it yet. You will see the credit soon.

* * *

I'd really like to hear your opinions on his reply. I feel like he's throwing me a much smaller bone to see if he can keep me happy. I'm really tempted to send him the picture of the packing job.

Bunsen, thank you so much for your time on this post!

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De nada.

The term "working" was so heavily implied ... They just wanted to pull one over on me.

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Assume incompetence before venality. That packaging could easily have killed a working machine. If I was the shipping insurer, I would laugh you out of my office with that packaging photo.

If he's really just had a baby, he will have been distracted, and the way ebay's postage calculator is completely uselessly broken and evil at the moment, his story would not be unusual. It doesn't sound like a "bone" per se, but a genuine refund for the excess postage.

But yes, the use of the terms "excellent condition" and "boots" definitely imply a working machine. I don't think you can just use "as is" as a universal get-out. And if he packed that machine himself like that, he's definitely at fault, and it's my opinion you are due for a full refund. For the price that you paid, you could wait for another MDD with a warranty against at least DOA.

On the other hand, if they really are that hard to find where you are, and you decide to try and revive it, you might be able to negotiate a partial refund.

Start your communication with the seller with the assumption that he (or she) is well intentioned, but doesn't know how to pack things for shi... pping. But be firm. The words "completely inadequate and almost guaranteed to lead to damage" spring to mind. You can quote me. Hell, link to this thread if you like.

I've got a cracked solder joint on a chip near / the power supply / Surely one chip wouldn't keep the system from turning on at all.

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AHAHAHAHA ahah ah... ha ....ehh ... mmm

Yes. Yes, it could.

Equill: thankyou for your explication of the difference between a power management unit and a CUDA. I was not aware of that, or the changeover point in the product line. (Just what the heck does CUDA stand for anyway?)

Can you tell us the markings on or around the suspect chip?

One other thing that comes to mind. Check the lead from the front panel power switch to the motherboard. If it has come loose from the switch, it would be hard to see.

You don't have to wait for your friend's voltmeter to check the PS. Just jam a paperclip into a black (ground) lead and the standby (usually the only purple one, but check and double check the pinout). If the fans and/or drives whir, it's alive.

I was not aware of that, or the changeover point in the product line.

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cuda was discontinued with the Core99

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^^ found that while googling for what CUDA stands for and apparently it it stands for Capacitive Unit Discharge ASIC and ASIC stands for Application-Specific Integrated Circuit! The more you know :lol:

Ha! Bunsen, you make me laugh.

I sent a lengthy reply. What did you guys think of the chip I linked? Bad break or fixable?

Thanks for the advice!!!

EDIT: There were a couple of posts while I was typing, I'll check check the chip again and try the paperclip trick!

While I really don't know anything about that chip, and maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but couldn't a small bit 'o solder over the crack on the joint fix that? The joint looks fairly big, so I'd think it would be easy.

You wouldn't even need solder, just touch a hot iron to it and it would reflow good as new. Also, it's not a chip, it's a capacitor, which are incredibly easy to find and replace. (and could easily prevent the machine from booting, though somewhat unlikely, most caps on motherboards are used for noncritical things like filters)

I actually thought about an iron but I quickly found the other side of the capacitor has no connection what-so-ever. There are three fairly identical chips in the area of this chip.

The chip has these markings on it: 33-20 then underneath P3. Beside the P3 is a 2 in a circle. It's marked on the board as C410.

First off, it was a $299 BIN for a dual processor MDD? That throws up red flags immediately. $299 is too low. Second, there is nothing in the listing that says it is working and no DOA guarantee. I think filing a complaint with ebay or Paypal will get you nowhere since he makes no claims as to it's functionality. If you are going to make a claim, wait until after he refunds the excess shipping. He may refuse to make the refund if you file a complaint first.

While I really don't know anything about that chip, and maybe I'm looking at it wrong, but couldn't a small bit 'o solder over the crack on the joint fix that? The joint looks fairly big, so I'd think it would be easy.

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I was thinking the same thing. A small gob of solder to bridge the gap should get it going at least temporarily if that is the only problem. A more permanent repair will have to be done in the future, though because any shocks or vibrations will eventually work the solder loose and the problem will reappear. Replacing the motherboard would probably be cheaper than paying someone to solder on a new part. Easier, too.

Here's the latest from the seller,

I would like to see any video or pics you have of the packing or damage. I did pack it and to tell you the truth, thought I did a pretty good job. The computer was wedged in the box well enough that it wouldn't move. It was also taped up at the UPS store after the store owner inspected it and got a description for the insurance that was purchased ($300 worth of insurance was purchased).

This is what I wrote back:

Patrick - Here is a picture of the packaging, just opened. I was a manager for UPS for five years and also worked part time at a UPS store (then Mail Boxes ETC) to get through college and I don't see how they inspected this and gave it a green light. But, I'm glad they did. It sounds like they would honor a claim because of that. We tended not to let a computer go without being wrapped and packed in peanuts in a double box, especially if it was insured. Here's the video of the capacitor. It's just a capacitor so I don't think that's enough to keep the machine from at least turning on. Either way, I'm going to have a go at fixing it (the capacitor has since fallen off). Also, If I can find a paperclip I'll put to bed the worries that the PS was damaged in shipping. Right now it's hard to tell what's wrong with the machine without spending more money. It may just be easier for both of us to start a claim with UPS. Either way, thank you for following with me on this transaction. Thanks, Jeff.

* * *

I would really like to get reimbursed for the motherboard. BUT if he insured it and they inspected it, that's a legitimate claim.

AGAIN - Thanks all for the replies.

I've been watching MDD's pretty solid for the past year and prices have come down considerably. I've seen the 1.25's go for $500 but these days anything less processor wise doesn't fetch that much.

Consequently, I went a few rounds with a guy over an iMac Snow for my little sister several years ago. They approved his claim without looking at the box or anything. That guy gave me just enough to fix the bent plastic and he actually MADE MONEY off the claim.