Thread
Project Silvertooth
Some of you may recall the Power Mac G4 Quicksilver I picked up for the fantastic price of free not that long ago. It was destroyed by a student who fiddled with the voltage regulator, connecting a 110v power supply to a 240v line which vaporised the power supply and sent a deadly surge to the logic board.
Not even that will keep this Quicksilver down though. Presenting Project Silvertooth.
This is a true cut and assemble of three G4 systems of various series, the Sawtooth, the Gigabit Ethernet and the Quicksilver. The aim of the project is to assemble a machine that will run using a standard ATX power supply with minimal modification, offer comparable speed to a factory Quicksilver (if not exceeding it) while creating an all round funky machine.
I've often been asked why I would undertake such a challenging, time consuming or, as some have suggested, stupid project. Aside from the fact it will contribute to my electronics certification semester grade, it's also in the typical spirit of the 68kMLA. The machine is newer than most of our vintage Macs here, but it's still a system that, despite being abused all its life, will live again and see active service very soon.
I shall aim to keep the thread up to date on the project, with photos, as it progresses.
Cheers
- Michael
Not even that will keep this Quicksilver down though. Presenting Project Silvertooth.
This is a true cut and assemble of three G4 systems of various series, the Sawtooth, the Gigabit Ethernet and the Quicksilver. The aim of the project is to assemble a machine that will run using a standard ATX power supply with minimal modification, offer comparable speed to a factory Quicksilver (if not exceeding it) while creating an all round funky machine.
The Gigabit Ethernet logic board cost me $63 from Apple-Bits in Melbourne. Everything else on the list has been free or donated to the cause. I expect to spend no more than $100 on the project to get it running at full operating capacity. To clarify the need for some of these extra parts...
A Mac OS X Leopard 10.5 install disc has also been kindly donated to the cause by the school's IT administrative department, so a thank you to them for supporting the project to see their old server back in action.
I've often been asked why I would undertake such a challenging, time consuming or, as some have suggested, stupid project. Aside from the fact it will contribute to my electronics certification semester grade, it's also in the typical spirit of the 68kMLA. The machine is newer than most of our vintage Macs here, but it's still a system that, despite being abused all its life, will live again and see active service very soon.
I shall aim to keep the thread up to date on the project, with photos, as it progresses.
Cheers
- Michael
CPU extension cable: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5199
If you combine these two, you can get a 20 pin to 20 pin motherboard connector: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9818 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5184
If you combine these two, you can get a 20 pin to 20 pin motherboard connector: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9818 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5184
Cheers, i'll keep those in mind for tomorrow. I have to stop by my local computer store anyway so i'll see what they have in stock first. CPU extension cable won't work since the 4-pin connector is only present on Quicksilver boards, on the earlier boards it needs to be hard wired to one of the CPU -> Logic Board retaining screws.
I see that the Gigabit and Digital Audio power pinouts are exactly the same. I succeeded in booting my DA from an ATX PS with an extension cable made for P4 logic boards. It had sufficient extra pins for the job.
If you're bus clocking, a packet of self-adhesive RAM heatsinks to lob onto any suspiciously warm ICs might be a good investment.
If you're bus clocking, a packet of self-adhesive RAM heatsinks to lob onto any suspiciously warm ICs might be a good investment.
Indeed, although i'm not sure how the RAM will respond as it will be clocked up to a theoretical maximum of 133mhz, and the RAM itself is already 133mhz. Better to be safe than sorry though, so i'll keep RAM heatsinks in mind when I next head in to the supplier.
Also, cheers for the link to the power supply pinouts. I forgot the link a while back and had been looking for it ever since.
Anyway, quick update. The board has been paid in full to the supplier and should be shipped down next week. I've also picked up a Belkin 3 Port Hi-Speed USB 2.0 card, designed for Mac (as it says on the box) so this should give the system a kick in terms of connectivity.
USB 2.0 card set me back $40, a little more than I had expected but it comes with a lifetime warranty and is quite a good card overall. Plus the assurance it works with Apple PowerPC logic boards is a big plus.
Sat. 23rd August 2008 (5:25PM) - Quicksilver Roars into Life
What?
That's right. After spending a good $65 on a Gigabit Ethernet logic board, i've just gone and repaired my broken Quicksilver board in a last minute turn around. Using an extra 12v supply line plus a few alterations to an ATX I have around here, the Quicksilver has successfully booted up to a disk prompt, countering the belief by the IT administration and myself that the logic board was roasted.
So what does this mean for Silvertooth?
There will be two systems built. The Gigabit Ethernet board will occupy the chassis of my now dead Sawtooth along with a 400mhz CPU module and 384MB of RAM, at least until I can bump up it's specs.
I'll do more soldering tonight and hopefully get the Quicksilver up and running, leaving more time for the Gigabit Ethernet next week.
What?
That's right. After spending a good $65 on a Gigabit Ethernet logic board, i've just gone and repaired my broken Quicksilver board in a last minute turn around. Using an extra 12v supply line plus a few alterations to an ATX I have around here, the Quicksilver has successfully booted up to a disk prompt, countering the belief by the IT administration and myself that the logic board was roasted.
So what does this mean for Silvertooth?
There will be two systems built. The Gigabit Ethernet board will occupy the chassis of my now dead Sawtooth along with a 400mhz CPU module and 384MB of RAM, at least until I can bump up it's specs.
I'll do more soldering tonight and hopefully get the Quicksilver up and running, leaving more time for the Gigabit Ethernet next week.
Congratulations!
By the way, the great advantage of doing the wiring mods on an extension cable is that if the PS ever fries, I can swap it out without having to do all that re-patching again.
I didn't mean specifically for the RAM. I thought there might be other ICs that might get a bit toasty, and would be more stable with a bit of cheap cooling.
By the way, the great advantage of doing the wiring mods on an extension cable is that if the PS ever fries, I can swap it out without having to do all that re-patching again.
Ah yes, of course, a mistake in my reading earlier. I agree some cooling for other IC's, particularly those handling the northbridge and southbridge which will be under increased strain on an overclocked system. I see what you mean.
I have a better PSU for the task as well, I will probably pick up an extension cable and do the necessary modifications to it when I visit the supplier next. Not too difficult to do.
I have a slight fear that I may need to use an extra power supply to provide the extra kick required to start it. I have another PSU here suitable for the task but intended to keep it as a last resort. It's becoming more and more clear i'll have to use it though.
Why?
Are you thinking of the +28V line? I had no problem substituting +5VSB (standby)
Otherwise, a G4 requires a -lot- less power than a P4
Are you thinking of the +28V line? I had no problem substituting +5VSB (standby)
Otherwise, a G4 requires a -lot- less power than a P4
http://www.outofspec.com/frankenmac/wire.shtml
Looking at the link you provided earlier, the two additional pins toward the top of the connector require at least 12v to start up- or so i've been told. If I could seriously connect it to just the 5v standby line and have it work, then this would be much easier. Like to hear more about your theory though, very interesting.
I don't intend for this power supply to be the final, I have a much better PSU lined up for the task. Tonight was the test run, the check to see if was actually possible to boot it up and I have to say, it's been a real success. Once I pick up the PSU extension cable, that's when the real fun will begin.
So it's now booted into Mac OS X Tiger... sort of. It's fairly unstable. The RAM I have in it at the moment isn't the most reliable stick i've ever seen, and the installation on the hard disk is quite old. Should be fine once the machine is cleaned up.
As promised, here are a few rough pics snapped with my iPhone during the process.
Soldered CPU Supply Wires
The Completed External Power Connector
My Cheap Soldering Station, Wiring up a fan
The Tower Open
Quicksilver Kicks into Life
Mac OS X Starting Up
I'll keep working on this further as more parts become available.
Looking at the link you provided earlier, the two additional pins toward the top of the connector require at least 12v to start up- or so i've been told. If I could seriously connect it to just the 5v standby line and have it work, then this would be much easier. Like to hear more about your theory though, very interesting.
I don't intend for this power supply to be the final, I have a much better PSU lined up for the task. Tonight was the test run, the check to see if was actually possible to boot it up and I have to say, it's been a real success. Once I pick up the PSU extension cable, that's when the real fun will begin.
So it's now booted into Mac OS X Tiger... sort of. It's fairly unstable. The RAM I have in it at the moment isn't the most reliable stick i've ever seen, and the installation on the hard disk is quite old. Should be fine once the machine is cleaned up.
As promised, here are a few rough pics snapped with my iPhone during the process.
Soldered CPU Supply Wires
The Completed External Power Connector
My Cheap Soldering Station, Wiring up a fan
The Tower Open
Quicksilver Kicks into Life
Mac OS X Starting Up
I'll keep working on this further as more parts become available.
Bunsen, I was using 5VSB of my Antec NeoPower 650 Blue for my Digital Audio mobo but eventually after time it started loosing power under extreme load and right after power button press.(same thing happened with the first, second and third PC PSUs I was using with it) So, I went to the local PC shop to get an old AC->DC PC notebook adapter of acceptable specs, but I never ended up adding it. Thing is, while using a 400Mhz PII clocked to 533 during my DA's downtime I had a spur of the moment urge to replace it with a newer PC mobo to run OS X and windows and such.(I also did not fancy spending loads on an old GF6800GT when a muchmuch better PCI-e card was not much more)
That was late Feb and now here I am still using my Antec PSU and massively overclocked OS X running PC with absolutely no issues at all even with much higher power requirements.
I am about to put my DA back into service as a NAS device soon however. I need somewhere to store all my Mac stuff when I switch over my desktop to linux and windows use and have OS X on an Acer Aspire One that should be arriving next week.
So, I would always advise that anyone make sure to get something to handle the G4's rather high standby+FW+ADC or whatever requirements instead of relying on the PC PSU's 5VSB.
That was late Feb and now here I am still using my Antec PSU and massively overclocked OS X running PC with absolutely no issues at all even with much higher power requirements.
I am about to put my DA back into service as a NAS device soon however. I need somewhere to store all my Mac stuff when I switch over my desktop to linux and windows use and have OS X on an Acer Aspire One that should be arriving next week.
So, I would always advise that anyone make sure to get something to handle the G4's rather high standby+FW+ADC or whatever requirements instead of relying on the PC PSU's 5VSB.
That's where this next component comes in. Instead a connection of 5vSB, it will use a secondary internal 24v PSU from a PowerBook! The connections of the PowerBook PSU will be connected to the rear mains passthrough allowing the G4 to run from just one wall plug.
The only tradeoff is that external displays can no longer be plugged into the tower PSU, but the Quicksilver specification didn't allow such a setup anyway. (If you look at the rear plate of a QS, it only has one plug cutout on the PSU)
This should allow the G4 to run without any dramas and allow room for future expansion.
At the moment I have the machine shelved until the extra parts come in, once they do, I can begin work on the final revision.
The only tradeoff is that external displays can no longer be plugged into the tower PSU, but the Quicksilver specification didn't allow such a setup anyway. (If you look at the rear plate of a QS, it only has one plug cutout on the PSU)
This should allow the G4 to run without any dramas and allow room for future expansion.
At the moment I have the machine shelved until the extra parts come in, once they do, I can begin work on the final revision.
Yep, after much headbanging on IRC with iMac600 and others, this was the conclusion we settled on. I have a box of 24V Powerbook supplies with dodgy cases I picked up at auction. I'm going to send him one, and install one on my DA.
Granted, it may not supply enough current to run an ADC display (4 amps!) but it should be enough to keep the logic board and a few powered Firewire devices happy.
Granted, it may not supply enough current to run an ADC display (4 amps!) but it should be enough to keep the logic board and a few powered Firewire devices happy.
I remade some of the wiring tonight to a much neater design. Still needs to be tied together but it's otherwise working fine. Used a 20 to 24 pin extension cable this time as well.
For anyone else looking to attempt the project, i've put together a wiring diagram for the logic board connector.
Quicksilver ATX Wiring Diagram (Logic Board) (Updated- 31/08/08 )
It's still quick and dirty, and using 2 wall outlets, but the secondary supply in there at the moment is only a temporary fitting.
The success in starting it up was not without hiccups though. Initially the system had failed to boot because the ATX's "Power Good" line was connecting to a constant 3.3v line on the logic board, which for some reason shut off the machine on boot. Solution was to cut out the Power Good line and re-route it to run off another 3.3v line.
Then it wouldn't boot OS X, hanging during the boot process. This was another potentially major snag as we had suspected a defective L2 cache. Luckily the problem was just with the installation of OS X on the hard disk and, also after reconnecting the last 3.3v line, the system fired straight up into Mac OS X.
Just need to dive in and clean up the wiring now. I will still use the PowerBook supply, the system is already prepared for it as i've soldered in plugs rather than a direct wire-to-wire solder. When the PowerBook PSU gets here, pop out the old Hewlett Packard 19v, slide in the PowerBook PSU and plug it in. Simple.
From there it's really anyone's guess, I could pull the HD from this eMac and drop it into the Quicksilver I suppose. The speed difference over the eMac is noticeable, plus it has USB 2.0.
For anyone else looking to attempt the project, i've put together a wiring diagram for the logic board connector.
Quicksilver ATX Wiring Diagram (Logic Board) (Updated- 31/08/08 )
It's still quick and dirty, and using 2 wall outlets, but the secondary supply in there at the moment is only a temporary fitting.
The success in starting it up was not without hiccups though. Initially the system had failed to boot because the ATX's "Power Good" line was connecting to a constant 3.3v line on the logic board, which for some reason shut off the machine on boot. Solution was to cut out the Power Good line and re-route it to run off another 3.3v line.
Then it wouldn't boot OS X, hanging during the boot process. This was another potentially major snag as we had suspected a defective L2 cache. Luckily the problem was just with the installation of OS X on the hard disk and, also after reconnecting the last 3.3v line, the system fired straight up into Mac OS X.
Just need to dive in and clean up the wiring now. I will still use the PowerBook supply, the system is already prepared for it as i've soldered in plugs rather than a direct wire-to-wire solder. When the PowerBook PSU gets here, pop out the old Hewlett Packard 19v, slide in the PowerBook PSU and plug it in. Simple.
From there it's really anyone's guess, I could pull the HD from this eMac and drop it into the Quicksilver I suppose. The speed difference over the eMac is noticeable, plus it has USB 2.0.
That guy's diagrams are pointlessly confusing. The one on outofspec is much clearer.
But in the end it was someone in IRC who sent us the pinout from the Apple service manual who straightened us out. Thanks.
Yours looks nice though, iMac600
One thing though, that threw me at first: there's a convention that lines that cross but don't join should have a little "jump" in one of them to make it clear, like a little bow shaped bridge over the other line. As drawn, it looks like there's a whoooole lotta short circuiting going on.
Either that or route them outside so they don't cross any of the other lines.
But in the end it was someone in IRC who sent us the pinout from the Apple service manual who straightened us out. Thanks.
Yours looks nice though, iMac600
One thing though, that threw me at first: there's a convention that lines that cross but don't join should have a little "jump" in one of them to make it clear, like a little bow shaped bridge over the other line. As drawn, it looks like there's a whoooole lotta short circuiting going on.
Either that or route them outside so they don't cross any of the other lines.
I still have the source file for the diagram (OmniGraffle Pro) so I'll make some minor changes later. May make up a wiring diagram for the mains power passthrough connector as well, for reference.
When I'm satisfied with the wiring, I'll install Leopard on it, mostly for fun but we'll see how it goes performance wise. See where this machine hits its limit.
When I'm satisfied with the wiring, I'll install Leopard on it, mostly for fun but we'll see how it goes performance wise. See where this machine hits its limit.
Installed Mac OS X Leopard. So far i'm pleased with it, it's not a bad operating system on this CPU and Graphics Card. Speed isn't sacrificed too much for the functionality... it's like Tiger is on a Yikes or Sawtooth- it's hardly an Intel Mac but hardly a slouch either.
LeopardAssist worked fine on the Quicksilver and allowed for a flawless install of OS X Leopard on the slower CPU. I'm pleased to hear this as it's taken me months of updating and programming to make LeopardAssist run on the majority of G4 systems.
Speaking of which, it may be a good time to test concepts for a Leopard Optimiser on older systems. I've been tempted to make Leopard run at its very peak on older systems for a long time when I wrote down the guidelines for "LeopardAssist + TurboCat" six months ago. Now I have the chance to test it first hand.
LeopardAssist worked fine on the Quicksilver and allowed for a flawless install of OS X Leopard on the slower CPU. I'm pleased to hear this as it's taken me months of updating and programming to make LeopardAssist run on the majority of G4 systems.
Speaking of which, it may be a good time to test concepts for a Leopard Optimiser on older systems. I've been tempted to make Leopard run at its very peak on older systems for a long time when I wrote down the guidelines for "LeopardAssist + TurboCat" six months ago. Now I have the chance to test it first hand.
So like you could make leopard run on a G3?
well you can run Leopard on a G3 system that has a G4 upgrade on it, but its not the same as running it on a G3 tho since it has a G4 CPU.So like you could make leopard run on a G3?
Sun. Aug 31st 2008 3:19 AM - BOOOOOOOOST! [] ]'>
I got bored, so I decided to give my Power Mac G4 Quicksilver a little boost. Removed the CPU module and flipped it over. Then I whipped out the soldering iron.
Keep in mind I had no idea how to microsolder. I heated the small pads on either side of resistor R3 and flicked it off with a fine tip knife.
Dropped it back in the system. Nothing happened, no chime, no life. Here's two tips for you all. ALWAYS have the CPU screwed into place, one of those screws connects the CPU to the case and acts as a 12v line. Without it, you won't get a chime. The second tip is ALWAYS have the heatsink on, even if you intend to only quickly test the system. Saves you a lot of hassle with kernel panics.
Tightened the screws, replaced the heatsink and started it up into Mac OS X Leopard.
"800mhz PowerPC G4"
It's quite a minor increase when you look at it. It was a 733mhz CPU now clocked up to an 800mhz and absolutely loving it. No stability issues whatsoever even after some endurance testing.
Source:
http://powermac-g4.com/g4quicksilverclockup.html
While I was in there, I also used cable ties to bunch up some of the wiring in the bottom of the case. Looks good in there now, the door opens and closes easily and the cables don't flap around now they're securely fastened.
The AOpen PSU is also finally fitted and working fantastic with the machine, although i'm not sure i'll keep this one in due to the fact the Auriga one is a little better. We'll see eventually.
Now all this needs to get flying is the secondary 24v power supply, hard disk and DVD recorder (both of the latter are currently in the eMac). Another 512mb SDRAM stick may be on the cards to bring it up to a total RAM count of 1GB.
All in all the project is coming along quite nicely.
Cheers
- MB
PS. Here's the updated version of the wiring diagram. I've made a few alterations to clarify just where to bridge the wires, otherwise all the wires are the same.
Updated Quicksilver ATX -> Logic Board Wiring Diagram
] ]'>I got bored, so I decided to give my Power Mac G4 Quicksilver a little boost. Removed the CPU module and flipped it over. Then I whipped out the soldering iron.
Keep in mind I had no idea how to microsolder. I heated the small pads on either side of resistor R3 and flicked it off with a fine tip knife.
Dropped it back in the system. Nothing happened, no chime, no life. Here's two tips for you all. ALWAYS have the CPU screwed into place, one of those screws connects the CPU to the case and acts as a 12v line. Without it, you won't get a chime. The second tip is ALWAYS have the heatsink on, even if you intend to only quickly test the system. Saves you a lot of hassle with kernel panics.
Tightened the screws, replaced the heatsink and started it up into Mac OS X Leopard.
"800mhz PowerPC G4"
It's quite a minor increase when you look at it. It was a 733mhz CPU now clocked up to an 800mhz and absolutely loving it. No stability issues whatsoever even after some endurance testing.
Source:
http://powermac-g4.com/g4quicksilverclockup.html
While I was in there, I also used cable ties to bunch up some of the wiring in the bottom of the case. Looks good in there now, the door opens and closes easily and the cables don't flap around now they're securely fastened.
The AOpen PSU is also finally fitted and working fantastic with the machine, although i'm not sure i'll keep this one in due to the fact the Auriga one is a little better. We'll see eventually.
I finally got around to looking at some of those. The first link is what we're already trying to accomplish. The second is what we previously tried to do but turned out to be less than ideal... the third is quite confusing but I can see what he's trying to do, feed the 5v trickle power directly to the front panel for the system starter. The final is an interesting one I may try at a later date.
Now all this needs to get flying is the secondary 24v power supply, hard disk and DVD recorder (both of the latter are currently in the eMac). Another 512mb SDRAM stick may be on the cards to bring it up to a total RAM count of 1GB.
All in all the project is coming along quite nicely.
Cheers
- MB
PS. Here's the updated version of the wiring diagram. I've made a few alterations to clarify just where to bridge the wires, otherwise all the wires are the same.
Updated Quicksilver ATX -> Logic Board Wiring Diagram
Thu. Sep 4th 2008 12:40 AM - Up & Running
I tore down the eMac for the vital parts last night, hard disk, RAM and optical drive. Of course I made sure the eMac was still functional by refitting a smaller 40gb HD and CDROM with 384mb RAM.
As a result though, the Quicksilver was placed into active service.
Quicksilver in Action
The setup is still bulky and the desk does need a tidy up. An LCD panel would really set this machine off.
After the fitting of new parts I test started it. No chime. Turned out to be the 12v positive feed to the CPU module, the pin had come loose of the molex connector.
Test start 2, this time it chimed and started up to... not quite ideal conditions. One of the wires inside the case, an ATX 3.3v feed had split and was only just touching against the pin, brushing it. Opened it up and cut the 3.3v line out, it wasn't exactly needed in this configuration.
Third time lucky? Yes. Fired right up smoothly and went into an 8 hour run cycle to ensure this machine was reliable. Tests included an hours idle, then some normal use, some heavy use, then power tests (sleep mode, etc) before throwing it back into another idle test cycle. Very stable, very fast and very spiffy.
From a doorstop in the IT administrators office to a fully working 800mhz "Supercharged" G4. The Phoenix has well and truly been reborn.
Imagine BootX even whipped up a custom boot screen for it.
Imagine BootX Custom Boot Screen
Cheers
- MB
I tore down the eMac for the vital parts last night, hard disk, RAM and optical drive. Of course I made sure the eMac was still functional by refitting a smaller 40gb HD and CDROM with 384mb RAM.
As a result though, the Quicksilver was placed into active service.
Quicksilver in Action
The setup is still bulky and the desk does need a tidy up. An LCD panel would really set this machine off.
After the fitting of new parts I test started it. No chime. Turned out to be the 12v positive feed to the CPU module, the pin had come loose of the molex connector.
Test start 2, this time it chimed and started up to... not quite ideal conditions. One of the wires inside the case, an ATX 3.3v feed had split and was only just touching against the pin, brushing it. Opened it up and cut the 3.3v line out, it wasn't exactly needed in this configuration.
Third time lucky? Yes. Fired right up smoothly and went into an 8 hour run cycle to ensure this machine was reliable. Tests included an hours idle, then some normal use, some heavy use, then power tests (sleep mode, etc) before throwing it back into another idle test cycle. Very stable, very fast and very spiffy.
From a doorstop in the IT administrators office to a fully working 800mhz "Supercharged" G4. The Phoenix has well and truly been reborn.
The system is most certainly capable of Mac OS X Leopard from the week long test run I held last week.
Imagine BootX even whipped up a custom boot screen for it.
Imagine BootX Custom Boot Screen
Cheers
- MB
Very nice!!