Thread
Mac SE/30, collectable value
If you were to buy a Mac SE/30, is it better to get one with everything original inside than the souped up one? (such as IIsi ROM, hard drive, old capacitors, etc)?
How long is a piece of string? The psychology of monied collectors is a mystery resolved only on a case by case, auction by auction basis.
I've never seen a truly "souped up" SE/30 on EBAY. You might find one with fresh capacitors, but even those a rare. You definitely will not find one on EBAY with a IIsi ROM, and I personally have never seen one on EBAY with even a more commonly found IIfx ROM. So prepare yourself to do the souping. 
Does it mean I can only take it off from their cold fingers?!
Speaking of IIfx, which fetch more value? the IIfx or the SE/30?
One of the place I used to work many moons ago had a couple IIfx accesible only by the selected few. But I've seen many SE/30s and people there didn't give much thought to the one next to the SE.
Speaking of IIfx, which fetch more value? the IIfx or the SE/30?
One of the place I used to work many moons ago had a couple IIfx accesible only by the selected few. But I've seen many SE/30s and people there didn't give much thought to the one next to the SE.
An upgraded SE/30 would be one with an accelerator, large amount of RAM (over 32MB), video card, or ethernet. They came stock with a HD.
A stock IIfx is probably worth a little more then a stock SE/30.
A stock IIfx is probably worth a little more then a stock SE/30.
How much could you expect for a stock SE/30?
Check ebay for completed auctions.
As for "collectible" value, that is entirely on the collector.
To some collectors, and upgraded one would be "worthless", and on new-in-box, never opened would be the "holy grail", not to use, but merely to display; physical condition and stock status is paramount. To others, a new-in-box would be pointless, and only a fully upgraded one would be worth owning; owning to use, not to "show" (other than geek factor,) and physical condition wouldn't be as important; in fact, it might very well be modded.
To some collectors, and upgraded one would be "worthless", and on new-in-box, never opened would be the "holy grail", not to use, but merely to display; physical condition and stock status is paramount. To others, a new-in-box would be pointless, and only a fully upgraded one would be worth owning; owning to use, not to "show" (other than geek factor,) and physical condition wouldn't be as important; in fact, it might very well be modded.
A truly stock SE/30 with bad capacitors is overpriced if the seller is asking more than $100 for it (not including shipping, of course). Seriously. I say this as someone who watches the EBAY Vintage Mac section daily, and knows the hardware and features quite well. The only reason to pay more than $100 is if the SE/30 comes with some extras (i.e., those things that are not stock). But if you were able to find a tricked out SE/30 on EBAY, a reasonable price could be $400, $600 or even more, depending on the condition of the machine and what is offered. I personally consider my SE/30 to be valued at about $1,000. But I love the thing to much to sell it. If you ever do see it on EBAY, it probably means my fingers are cold (and buried 6 feet under).
Dang James! Maybe you should get your will straightened out so a dear friend of yours could inherit the SE/30. Although, at that price it would certainly go to someone who would appreciate it. My favorite Mac is a compact Mac and you're shooting for the the king's crown of compact Macs. There's absolutely nothing wrong with an SE unless you're wanting to hot rod a machine just for the sake of hot rodding it. I souped up an SE/30 but for every day applications I prefer my tame SE/30. I don't know if James is dead or alive today but I'd trust him on the eBay advice.
I've never sold anything on EBAY, even though I've had things to sell. So you can take my word for it when I say you won't be seeing my Vintage Mac stuff on EBAY until I am no longer among the living. Even then I would hope my family would retain my Macs in remembrance of me. ;-)
The values for old Macs aren't really all that clear. It used to be we could find the values in a computer price index, but old Macs have been left off that list for a long time. They also aren't considered collectibles by most. You won't find guidebooks or dealers for them like you would cards, stamps, or baseball cards.
eBay is often an inaccurate way of measuring value. Many of the 68Ks on there are overpriced--I've seen Classics and Pluses for several hundred dollars despite being in poor condition. Also, the ones that receive bids often seem to get them for no particular reason. Case in point--when I bid on my PB190 two weeks ago, I was the only bidder on the machine. It cost $30 and was in great shape. There was also a lesser 190 in terms of condition (it was very obvious from the pictures) going for $10, but that one had a bid on it long before the one I bought did.
Your best bet is to search the trading post forum here to see what has sold lately.
eBay is often an inaccurate way of measuring value. Many of the 68Ks on there are overpriced--I've seen Classics and Pluses for several hundred dollars despite being in poor condition. Also, the ones that receive bids often seem to get them for no particular reason. Case in point--when I bid on my PB190 two weeks ago, I was the only bidder on the machine. It cost $30 and was in great shape. There was also a lesser 190 in terms of condition (it was very obvious from the pictures) going for $10, but that one had a bid on it long before the one I bought did.
Your best bet is to search the trading post forum here to see what has sold lately.
Stamps and baseball card prices have peaked and dropped a long time ago (except for a few rarities), computers are probably not at that point yet. There are few kids who collect stamps or baseball cards so down the road there will be fewer collectors to keep the prices up. There are plenty of kids collecting computers now, and down the road some of them will have deep pockets and will be buying rare items for $$$.
Eventually there will be books written that are price guide going by condition and grading for computers, followed by a peek in value of most machines and then a major drop for anything that is not pristine condition.
Anything that was popular will probably still be popular in 20 years and worth something. Prices for crappy machines will go up and down over time depending on fads (for example I think classic and classic 2 machines were crap, but some people who had one as a kid will want one, same with low cost machines that were used in schools).
Anyway the Color classic, SE and SE/30 will probably be the most collectable later compacts, the original mac will also be very collectable along with the high end desktop models people have always lusted after.
Eventually there will be books written that are price guide going by condition and grading for computers, followed by a peek in value of most machines and then a major drop for anything that is not pristine condition.
Anything that was popular will probably still be popular in 20 years and worth something. Prices for crappy machines will go up and down over time depending on fads (for example I think classic and classic 2 machines were crap, but some people who had one as a kid will want one, same with low cost machines that were used in schools).
Anyway the Color classic, SE and SE/30 will probably be the most collectable later compacts, the original mac will also be very collectable along with the high end desktop models people have always lusted after.
When is it a good time to sell your Mac for an auction? Is it the year's end?
synergy, as I posted in another thread a few moments ago, you are pressing the EBAY button a bit too hard. You are here among veteran Mac users and vintage computing enthusiasts. Your continued comments about "selling on EBAY" will only produce animosity toward you (or apathy) and reduce the willingness of others to offer you with help. We help each other here because we know that help will not end up in a for-profit deal on EBAY. You may not be an EBAY Shark, but how do we know this? Some of us may simply avoid talking to you so as not to take the risk.
So as I said in the other thread, cool down and enjoy the Mac experience. If you need money, get a better job or get a better education to get you a better paying job. You're not going to befriend a lot of people here (aside from fellow EBAY sellers) by talking about EBAY pricing and how to make the biggest buck there. I'm sorry, but that's just not what this site is all about.
Sorry to be so blunt. I don't mean to upset you. But I feel it important to tell you the truth.
So as I said in the other thread, cool down and enjoy the Mac experience. If you need money, get a better job or get a better education to get you a better paying job. You're not going to befriend a lot of people here (aside from fellow EBAY sellers) by talking about EBAY pricing and how to make the biggest buck there. I'm sorry, but that's just not what this site is all about.
Sorry to be so blunt. I don't mean to upset you. But I feel it important to tell you the truth.
LOL, the best time to sell on eBay is when someone is jonesing to buy what you are selling. I haveo three years worth of data on Mac 128k sales on eBay and I can tell you there is no rhyme or reason. I have seen identical units which sell within a month of each other for less than half the price of the other. I have also seen identical units that sell at similar times of the year for radically different prices. And I have seen several identical units that have sold within days of each other for vastly different prices. You are just kidding yourself if you think eBay functions anything like the retail seasonal markets.
I didn't realize a few keystrokes of the word eBay would cause people such hoo-hah to jab on my personal life style, the educational background or the level of salary. I'm an enthusiast on many things and it truly doesn't stun me that there are always something that ticks someone anywhere you go.
What if I revealed myself before hand that I got my MBA from Harvard or a Ph.d in Computer science from Stanford. Would it entitle me the same arrogant peremptory manner I got?
What if I got my Th.D degree from Printon living as a prophet in a developing country rasing money for the charity. Are you going to crucify me on my lowly wage and put a curse on yourself and your offsprings in return?
What if I plan on taking my compact Mac on a local cafe. Are you going to stone me of adultery for attracting middle aged female?
I wonder if Steve Wozniac or Meg Whitman openly posting the smilar topic on collectable value or resale value on a Mac would earn them the same haughty imperious advice on their education, job and salary.
Although I got my Mac Plus, Quadra 800 and PM 9500 when they first came out, only the marginalized ones know how to push a benign eBay botton to cause transgression (or kick in a groin) against a royal veteran Mac user.
You talk about the risk from an eBay shark (aside from your so called fellow EBAY sellers) but you are solicitating bigger risk by getting too personal too quickly. With all due respect you''ve contributed to some of my questions but even if you consider a risk well worth taking for your divine cause, you might get more than what you bargain for (like eBay pricing) and none of your credit will count toward you as well.
Sorry to be so blunt. I don't mean to upset you. But I feel it important to tell you the truth that I just dug out my SE/30 I didn't know I had it after all these years and to me it's just a worldly consumable goods. And I got my economics degree from U.C. Berkeley with a little help from the SE.
What if I revealed myself before hand that I got my MBA from Harvard or a Ph.d in Computer science from Stanford. Would it entitle me the same arrogant peremptory manner I got?
What if I got my Th.D degree from Printon living as a prophet in a developing country rasing money for the charity. Are you going to crucify me on my lowly wage and put a curse on yourself and your offsprings in return?
What if I plan on taking my compact Mac on a local cafe. Are you going to stone me of adultery for attracting middle aged female?
I wonder if Steve Wozniac or Meg Whitman openly posting the smilar topic on collectable value or resale value on a Mac would earn them the same haughty imperious advice on their education, job and salary.
Although I got my Mac Plus, Quadra 800 and PM 9500 when they first came out, only the marginalized ones know how to push a benign eBay botton to cause transgression (or kick in a groin) against a royal veteran Mac user.
You talk about the risk from an eBay shark (aside from your so called fellow EBAY sellers) but you are solicitating bigger risk by getting too personal too quickly. With all due respect you''ve contributed to some of my questions but even if you consider a risk well worth taking for your divine cause, you might get more than what you bargain for (like eBay pricing) and none of your credit will count toward you as well.
Sorry to be so blunt. I don't mean to upset you. But I feel it important to tell you the truth that I just dug out my SE/30 I didn't know I had it after all these years and to me it's just a worldly consumable goods. And I got my economics degree from U.C. Berkeley with a little help from the SE.
If you plan on flipping a SE/30 on ebay then going to ebay and looking over ended auctions will give you a clue about its recent value ( that is what we do). If you were a mac user from back in the SE/30 era you would know about any add-ons to the unit and what they cost back then. Anything that enhanced the user experience back then will probably add value to it today. With a degree in economics I figure you know a little about how volatile the collectable markets are during high unemployment (buyers market).
People tend to get jumpy here when somebody joins and asks about what something is worth and then vanishes, the people here have a decent amount of knowledge about these old machines and tend to not like being a free apparaisal service (especially when you don't give them first crack at buying the items).
People tend to get jumpy here when somebody joins and asks about what something is worth and then vanishes, the people here have a decent amount of knowledge about these old machines and tend to not like being a free apparaisal service (especially when you don't give them first crack at buying the items).
synergy, what I said needed to be said. That holds true if you had 14 PhD's from MIT. Wisdom is to be prized above knowledge.
If you calmly and logically consider all your posts to date, you will realize that you did not mention EBAY a mere one or two times. So it is not a "few keystrokes" at all. It has been the resounding theme of nearly all of your posts here. And I was not "ticked off," as evidenced by the calm wording of my previous post. But it is abundantly clear from reading the first half of your reply, the my words clearly upset you. But why? And toward what "productive" end did you mimic my words in the closing paragraph of your last post? And from where did the words "divine cause" come from? Your surprisingly harsh reply only reinforces negative suspicions.
I am not your enemy. I was and still am just trying to be a friend to a fellow Mac enthusiast. You only joined this site on October 1st. Had you several weeks or months of established posts here that didn't center on selling anything, a sudden discussion about selling on EBAY wouldn't arouse any suspicious or concerns at all. Indeed, in such a case, I would have said nothing at all to you about EBAY selling. But as Unknown_K properly points out in the closing sentence of his post, there are some among us, myself included, who occasionally get jumpy about people who wish to squeeze us for info that will be used in profiteering on EBAY.
So as I said in my previous post, just relax and enjoy the vintage Mac experience. That's why we're all here.
If you calmly and logically consider all your posts to date, you will realize that you did not mention EBAY a mere one or two times. So it is not a "few keystrokes" at all. It has been the resounding theme of nearly all of your posts here. And I was not "ticked off," as evidenced by the calm wording of my previous post. But it is abundantly clear from reading the first half of your reply, the my words clearly upset you. But why? And toward what "productive" end did you mimic my words in the closing paragraph of your last post? And from where did the words "divine cause" come from? Your surprisingly harsh reply only reinforces negative suspicions.
I am not your enemy. I was and still am just trying to be a friend to a fellow Mac enthusiast. You only joined this site on October 1st. Had you several weeks or months of established posts here that didn't center on selling anything, a sudden discussion about selling on EBAY wouldn't arouse any suspicious or concerns at all. Indeed, in such a case, I would have said nothing at all to you about EBAY selling. But as Unknown_K properly points out in the closing sentence of his post, there are some among us, myself included, who occasionally get jumpy about people who wish to squeeze us for info that will be used in profiteering on EBAY.
So as I said in my previous post, just relax and enjoy the vintage Mac experience. That's why we're all here.
I applaud your restraint JDW. I would also like to point out that it's not profiteering on eBay alone that's the issue, but rather obtaing the free advice from the "experts" and then turning around and using it against us, in the form of artificially inflating the market for those of us who might be interested in buying that particular vingtage Mac, and certainly, as Unknown_K points out, not offering for sale here first. It's OK to desire a certain price, but pumping the list to get the details to help sell it, and then using that info to maximize a profit, but giving nothing back to the group that helped obtain the profit, is just wrong. And presumably, once the seller who became a part of the community merely to sell his only vintage Mac, will never log on again, much less contribute anything, and resulting in a dead user account which will eventually have to be purged from the system. Under those circumstances, I would say there is no one who would be openly welcome. After all, as has been pointed out, it's relatively easy to search completed listings on eBay, as it is to search the voluminous forums here to find information about repairing Almost every Mac, but especially the SE/30 thanks to JDW's detailed posts. To bypass all of that freely obtainable information to get quicker answers only to facilitate one's for-profit ends, is ethically questionable - at least around here. I can think of no one I know or have read about in business who would personally or professionally feel otherwise, I think as evidenced by the numerous patent lawsuits which daily populate the high tech world.
Imagine this were the frontier, and a person rolls into a small town one day with a broken down wagon. They attend a town meeting, join the community, and ask the neighbors to help fix the wagon, which they willingly offer to do to help the new member of their community. Then as soon as the wagon is fixed, that person disappears having given nothing back to the community which helped them. Then a week later one of the people from the community goes to the big city to buy a wagon at auction and finds the very wagon he helped repair for sale. Since it is one of the few in good condition, a bidding war ensues, bringing the price of the wagon out of reach of the small town buyer, who helped repair the wagon in the first place so it would bring such a price. It would actually make this story worse if the seller had turned out to be a notable figure, that the town helped out due to their respect or admiration for that person and the things the person indirectly contributed to the community, like a politician, inventor, or celebrity. The community thought they were helping someone out who appreciated the help, not someone who was just passing through and would forget about them as soon as they started counting their money.
JDW. Apparently you anticipated all from your closing remarks and you have nerve to wonder why. Truth is I'm also not upset but simply be on your seat. What is more revealing than incriminating your motive by saying that my harsh reply only *reinforced* your *negative suspicions.* You are right in saying that it is all about the suspicion theory after all. I suppose the word *divine* has much to do with another sinister botton not to be violated here.
If you think you got suprising reprisal then perhaps you all should reappraise wisdom of yours when your brains are muzzled and failed to notice yourselves spewing out the words like blunt, upset, enemy, jumpy, shark, negative, suspicion, relax, artificial, profiteering, purge, pumping, etc (Mattew. 12: 35).
As a proverb saying the one who farts blames others first. I've read some of your posts in the past and surely everyone knows none of your Mac relics didn't come from dealing with eBay or a third party but you all seem well versed in the rarity of your add ons and hence the market values. You can coax yourselves all your life but if it weren't for their rarity you wouldn't be dwelling here in a first place. Beside not all who join this site envy their Mac enough want to be part of your bed fellows. A rude awakening for some but I promise you this isn't the ghetto if I ever want to be a profiteer. I've already donated a half dozen Performas to a local charity which are much more usable than your vintage Mac ever could. That doesn't mean I refuse to befriend with no one but the gang who are fixated on losing their slices of pie aren't the ones I bet my soul on.
If the wisdom speaks to you then the Proverb 16:19 might ring a bell on your head. Why don't you all ease up your retentiveness. Not all new comers who ask for resale values are not here to steal your lost wages or to hinder reunion of your long lost soul Mac. Go ahead if you wanna form a union. Even so, they are not your enemies and aren't here to subvert your little world unless you beg to differ and make one for yourselves.
Now that I've lost the means of getting the true value of the broken Lisa in its original box, why don't you all chill out and cast a lot among yourselves. Whoever wins I'll exchange it for your Powerbook before I list it on eBay.
If you think you got suprising reprisal then perhaps you all should reappraise wisdom of yours when your brains are muzzled and failed to notice yourselves spewing out the words like blunt, upset, enemy, jumpy, shark, negative, suspicion, relax, artificial, profiteering, purge, pumping, etc (Mattew. 12: 35).
As a proverb saying the one who farts blames others first. I've read some of your posts in the past and surely everyone knows none of your Mac relics didn't come from dealing with eBay or a third party but you all seem well versed in the rarity of your add ons and hence the market values. You can coax yourselves all your life but if it weren't for their rarity you wouldn't be dwelling here in a first place. Beside not all who join this site envy their Mac enough want to be part of your bed fellows. A rude awakening for some but I promise you this isn't the ghetto if I ever want to be a profiteer. I've already donated a half dozen Performas to a local charity which are much more usable than your vintage Mac ever could. That doesn't mean I refuse to befriend with no one but the gang who are fixated on losing their slices of pie aren't the ones I bet my soul on.
If the wisdom speaks to you then the Proverb 16:19 might ring a bell on your head. Why don't you all ease up your retentiveness. Not all new comers who ask for resale values are not here to steal your lost wages or to hinder reunion of your long lost soul Mac. Go ahead if you wanna form a union. Even so, they are not your enemies and aren't here to subvert your little world unless you beg to differ and make one for yourselves.
Now that I've lost the means of getting the true value of the broken Lisa in its original box, why don't you all chill out and cast a lot among yourselves. Whoever wins I'll exchange it for your Powerbook before I list it on eBay.
Time to calm down, methinks.
The answer to the question of eBay value is the same as the answer to every other question concerning market value: it is "worth" what someone will pay for it. If someone is mad enough to pay $400 for what industry regards as scrap electronics, that is, I suppose, their choice.
I would not pay more than $40 or so for one myself. I have two, and did not spend $40 between the two of them. I got them for that price because the people passing them on wanted them to go to a good home, and not to the recyclers, or (what is nearly as bad) to hackers wanting to make them into fishtanks or G4s, which merely destroys a machine in a different way, but just as thoroughly. I think the people from whom I got the machines felt that I understood their worth better than most, and that they got a good "price."
That rather different sense of value, which would be broadly shared by our members, is basically why this thread developed in the way it did.
So keep your SE/30, and stick around the forum. We need new members.
The answer to the question of eBay value is the same as the answer to every other question concerning market value: it is "worth" what someone will pay for it. If someone is mad enough to pay $400 for what industry regards as scrap electronics, that is, I suppose, their choice.
I would not pay more than $40 or so for one myself. I have two, and did not spend $40 between the two of them. I got them for that price because the people passing them on wanted them to go to a good home, and not to the recyclers, or (what is nearly as bad) to hackers wanting to make them into fishtanks or G4s, which merely destroys a machine in a different way, but just as thoroughly. I think the people from whom I got the machines felt that I understood their worth better than most, and that they got a good "price."
That rather different sense of value, which would be broadly shared by our members, is basically why this thread developed in the way it did.
So keep your SE/30, and stick around the forum. We need new members.
Do they ever wish that I have a law degree from Harvard? But they know that a law degree is not required to see that this is not about different sense of value. This is all about being territorial and paranoid. Some got berzerk as if I stepped on their genitalia. I tried to spice up the threads and boost their pride a bit while obtaining some questions but that wasn't enough for them because of the doctrine of your gain is my loss. There are always spoil sports who have no other way but resort to their ego and that's how the party usually end quick. If that's how it's done here then I'll help pave your way and see what you got. To be fair, this isn't the only site that has a pack who roam around to mark their territory by spraying on unsuspecting ones who know nothing about their culture. This very packs are also the ones who travel abroad expecting the locals to bend over backwards for them.
Guys, just a reminder that "keep it civil" does extend beyond the Lounge.
Synergy, take it easy. There's not going to be a winner in a conversation like this. I think you had most if not all of your questions answered.