Thread
Lisa?
Today I acquired a Lisa 2. Well....not really one you can plugin and startup.
It is more a former Lisa. A deciced Lisa....Just everything what could be removed is out. So not much as the monitor is left. I have some questions.
- How realistic is it to get this one back alive. What am I missing. Obvious the CPU board, video board, power suply, floppy drive....Am I missing more?
- Can you tell from the information on the serial number when it is produced? I see Manufactured 3244. Does that mean 1983, 24 week, 4th day?
- What is the information about the model (Model number A6S0300P Memory Option A6S0304 )
- If not possible to restore.is it possible to connect the monitor to any kind of more modern Mac? Like a Plus or a Macintosh II?
Some pictures and the serial sticker.
Serial sticker...
Model number A6S0300P Memory Option A6S0304
It is more a former Lisa. A deciced Lisa....Just everything what could be removed is out. So not much as the monitor is left. I have some questions.
- How realistic is it to get this one back alive. What am I missing. Obvious the CPU board, video board, power suply, floppy drive....Am I missing more?
- Can you tell from the information on the serial number when it is produced? I see Manufactured 3244. Does that mean 1983, 24 week, 4th day?
- What is the information about the model (Model number A6S0300P Memory Option A6S0304 )
- If not possible to restore.is it possible to connect the monitor to any kind of more modern Mac? Like a Plus or a Macintosh II?
Some pictures and the serial sticker.
Serial sticker...
Model number A6S0300P Memory Option A6S0304
- main board
- ram board
- I/O board
- lisa lite card
- lisa soft switch ?
- mouse
- keyboard
______________________________________________________________________________
my apple collection
.
WOW! 8-o I'm feeling more than a bit jealous all of a sudden! :I Nice one! :approve:
I believe the CRT and case are all that remain in this machine aside from a few stray cables. You do need every part you and Applefreak mentioned.
I'm not sure if you'd be into anything of the sort, but this would be an awesome system to customize or modify. I haven't been inside a Lisa in ten years so I'm a bit rusty on the schematics of the internals, but I'd love to see what could be accomplished with this case. Personally, I'd love to see SE/30 internals inside a Lisa, or maybe even a Mac Mini mod similar to what some have done with the Classics.
I'm not sure if you'd be into anything of the sort, but this would be an awesome system to customize or modify. I haven't been inside a Lisa in ten years so I'm a bit rusty on the schematics of the internals, but I'd love to see what could be accomplished with this case. Personally, I'd love to see SE/30 internals inside a Lisa, or maybe even a Mac Mini mod similar to what some have done with the Classics.
No signatures engraved on the Lisa's case? I'm surprised.
That's a sweet idea, using the SE/30's B&W monitor - and you could probably fit more than a couple PDS cards in there without resorting to that uber-expensive right-angle bracket from Japan.
+1,000000000
Wrong size - the Lisa CRT is 12".
My vote would be for a 12"-14" high-resolution LCD (or a good colour multi-scan CRT) and modern guts, running a Lisa emulator. CD/DVD drive in the floppy slot, of course
/edit/ - just noticed the floppy is 3.5", not 5.25". Much better would be a slot-loading optical drive behind one of the ventilation slots at the right. Looking at the back, it looks as though you might be able to have 3 PCI slots without too much horror, too. For a real challenge, install new hardware without altering the Lisa case in any way, so it is still in original condition, should you decide to fully restore it or sell it later.
Or - retr0brite it and sell it on eBay to someone wanting a nice clean case for theirs.
The LISA had a 12" CRT & more pixels, that's why I came close to buying one from Sun Remarketing back in 1998-89.
It looks like the machine has been parted out, so the CRT was probably dead or it'd very likely be gone too. If so, cutting the face off for a Mini transplant would be my second choice. First would be a mini-ATX or even the Micro-ATX Dual Core Atom board that's be "Hackintoshed" and running ubuntu in a dual boot setup as a NetTop.
Does the color match the 128k-early Mac Plus beige? Matching KBD & Mouse would be essential!
p.s. beat me to it,B!
It looks like the machine has been parted out, so the CRT was probably dead or it'd very likely be gone too. If so, cutting the face off for a Mini transplant would be my second choice. First would be a mini-ATX or even the Micro-ATX Dual Core Atom board that's be "Hackintoshed" and running ubuntu in a dual boot setup as a NetTop.
Does the color match the 128k-early Mac Plus beige? Matching KBD & Mouse would be essential!
p.s. beat me to it,B!
:O
The face off the CRT IF it's already DEAD! 
first try to get all the parts ......
the main board is available from time to time on ebay
replacement for the 'winchester' HD X/ProFile
or SCSI board with HD (system macworks)
Lisa components
subscribe to old mac forums to find the missing parts
Oh, for a realistic-looking LCD mod. Right. Personally, I'm not sure I'd bother: the front of the Lisa looks fairly flat and square already, and a flatscreen wouldn't look out of place, IMHO.The face off the CRT IF it's already DEAD!
Realistic, hmmm, well that depends on two things - money, and time. Lisas and Lisa parts are rare - and when available and working, expensive. If you wanted to collect broken Lisas for a while, you might end up with enough parts for a working one - in a few years
Not really, no.
Not necessarily, it might have just been too heavy to ship.
I'll modify my comment about the monitor above - if the Lisa CRT uses standard composite video for input (which I don't know) then you could run it off a composite (PAL/NTSC TV) output. I doubt that it does, but someone else here might know better.
source : Lisa 2 owners guide
______________________________________________________________________________
my apple collection
.
Thanks for all your help! 68kmla realy is great on help with my Lisa!
two questions remain:
- Can you tell from the information on the serial number when it is produced? I see Manufactured 3244. Does that mean 1983, 24 week, 4th day?
- What is the information about the model (Model number A6S0300P Memory Option A6S0304 )
Could someone help me with this?
two questions remain:
- Can you tell from the information on the serial number when it is produced? I see Manufactured 3244. Does that mean 1983, 24 week, 4th day?
- What is the information about the model (Model number A6S0300P Memory Option A6S0304 )
Could someone help me with this?
The information about a model number (A6S0300) and Memory Option A6S0304 are not in the FAQ. Nor is there any infomation about the Manufactured code on the sticker....
Sometimes I see this model number als Macintosh XL and sometimes as Lisa 2 1/5....
I guess the key is the exact date when it is made.
Help is still welcome!
Sometimes I see this model number als Macintosh XL and sometimes as Lisa 2 1/5....
I guess the key is the exact date when it is made.
Help is still welcome!
A6S0100
Lisa 1
A6S0200
Lisa 2, Lisa 2/5, Lisa 2/10
A6S0300
Lisa XL
when you see at ebay an auction of a Lisa 2 and it indicates A6S0300, its mean that he had to change the case (or parts of it)
because ....,
because of missing the original part or the original part wasn't in a good shape, or ....
so the winner of the auction doesn't have an original Lisa 2
The lisa story
______________________________________________________________________________
my apple collection
.
Lisa 1
A6S0200
Lisa 2, Lisa 2/5, Lisa 2/10
A6S0300
Lisa XL
when you see at ebay an auction of a Lisa 2 and it indicates A6S0300, its mean that he had to change the case (or parts of it)
because ....,
because of missing the original part or the original part wasn't in a good shape, or ....
so the winner of the auction doesn't have an original Lisa 2
The lisa story
______________________________________________________________________________
my apple collection
.
No, but there is a list of links to other Lisa websites. That was just the first page I pulled up in Google (hint)
Thanks a lot Bunsen and applefreak!
So to conclude about the model number:
A6S0300(P)
It is a Lisa 2/10 or Macintosh XL. Also reverred to as a Lisa XL.
I found an article on:
http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/computers/lisa2.html
which makes it clear for me that the Lisa 2/10, Lisa XL, Macintosh XL are basicly the same machine:
-Is there a production date on like on Compact Mac's?
- Is there location information on?
- What is an Applenet No.?
- The word Manufactured... is it a date code? Or a location code? Or just an internal number???
Sticker:
So to conclude about the model number:
A6S0300(P)
It is a Lisa 2/10 or Macintosh XL. Also reverred to as a Lisa XL.
I found an article on:
http://applemuseum.bott.org/sections/computers/lisa2.html
which makes it clear for me that the Lisa 2/10, Lisa XL, Macintosh XL are basicly the same machine:
Remains ....what is the infomation you can read from the serial sticker?
-Is there a production date on like on Compact Mac's?
- Is there location information on?
- What is an Applenet No.?
- The word Manufactured... is it a date code? Or a location code? Or just an internal number???
Sticker:
Apple engineers on the Apple Lisa team were working on the design of a local area networking system known as "AppleNet", based on the Xerox XNS protocol stack running at 1 Mbit/s
The Technical Support people will need the AppleNet number and the ROM's serial number.
starting up a lisa in service mode displays the serial number and applenet number
The Technical Support people will need the AppleNet number and the ROM's serial number.
starting up a lisa in service mode displays the serial number and applenet number
Was Apple actually using the "Twiggy Drive" in the Lisa?
I did a LOT of research on it back in the day. IIRC, I discovered that the Twiggy drive project was an abject failure and wasn't considered ready to ship for the Mac at its introduction. Hence, I'd be very surprised if they had used it on the original Lisa. The Mac was originally designed to use the Shugart 5.25" FDD. Now I wish I'd taken Tom Owad up on writing an article about how I came up with all the information I did in determining this to be the case. It's probably all still in the 'fritter archive."
Maybe next I'll . . .
. . . I can't even find a link to the old 'fritter forums archive over there! 8-o
I did a LOT of research on it back in the day. IIRC, I discovered that the Twiggy drive project was an abject failure and wasn't considered ready to ship for the Mac at its introduction. Hence, I'd be very surprised if they had used it on the original Lisa. The Mac was originally designed to use the Shugart 5.25" FDD. Now I wish I'd taken Tom Owad up on writing an article about how I came up with all the information I did in determining this to be the case. It's probably all still in the 'fritter archive."
Maybe next I'll . . .
. . . I can't even find a link to the old 'fritter forums archive over there! 8-o
Did the glaring spectacled man come with the Lisa too?
The old 'fritter archives are down, so I can't access the research I did to determine that the Mac was designed around the 5.25" Shugart Drive, not the "Twiggy Drive," as is commonly ASSuMEd!
I'd greatly appreciate any first-hand in-hand information on the FDD Mechanism hiding behind the Lisa's front bezel! Pictures would be REALLY COOL! :?:
I'd greatly appreciate any first-hand in-hand information on the FDD Mechanism hiding behind the Lisa's front bezel! Pictures would be REALLY COOL! :?:
It does not run off of standard Composite! It cant! Remember the lisa doesnt have square pixels!
its shows up the half (a part) of the display like the Lisa 2 does without the Apple Lisa Screen Mod Hardware Kit
"The old 'fritter archives are down, so I can't access the research I did to determine that the Mac was designed around the 5.25" Shugart Drive, not the "Twiggy Drive," as is commonly ASSuMEd!"
Since the Twiggy drive was the same size and shape as the Shugart 390 or the Alps copy that Apple used later for the Apple II and Apple /// series, the first Mac chassis were probably fitted with whatever was lying around the office, and that would be more likely an Apple II drive than a Twiggy, which was relatively rare even within Apple, because there were so many production glitches. However, the early Mac prototypes DID have Twiggy drives, and that was what Steve intended to ship before Burrell Smith started designing in the vastly superior Sony 3.5" drives.
Why is it people will do research on the web and come up with strange conclusions despite the written descriptions of people who were there at the time? Read about disk drives on folklore.org, or look at some of the Mac prototypes in museums. Apple swapped my early Twiggy prototype for a Sony prototype when they changed drives. Good thing, since the Twiggy drive I had was flaky. It could read its own disks most of the time, but was very poor at reading a disk written on another drive. And no, I don't have that prototype. Apple wanted it back when the Mac was about to ship, and they sent Beck-Tech a couple of production Macs.
The people who designed the Mac are still alive. Ask them.
As for square pixels, remember that NTSC "pixels" aren't square either. They are probably closer to Lisa-shape than Mac-shape, if they can be said to have any shape at all, since NTSC is not a pixel-based but analog system. The horizontal resolution is greater than vertical, so NTSC pixels are usually taller than they are wide, as in the Amiga, Apple //e, Apple ///, IBM CGA, Atari, etc. Like the Mac, Lisa isn't NTSC-compatible.
Not well-known or documented, the first Mac II video card aka the Toby Frame Buffer can output "NTSC" interlaced RGB. You need a little control panel which was available to developers who didn't have an Apple Hi-Res RGB monitor. I drove my Apple II RGB monitor that way for a month until Apple filled my order for a Trinitron. Remember that Apple II RGB with the motorized tilt control?
Since the Twiggy drive was the same size and shape as the Shugart 390 or the Alps copy that Apple used later for the Apple II and Apple /// series, the first Mac chassis were probably fitted with whatever was lying around the office, and that would be more likely an Apple II drive than a Twiggy, which was relatively rare even within Apple, because there were so many production glitches. However, the early Mac prototypes DID have Twiggy drives, and that was what Steve intended to ship before Burrell Smith started designing in the vastly superior Sony 3.5" drives.
Why is it people will do research on the web and come up with strange conclusions despite the written descriptions of people who were there at the time? Read about disk drives on folklore.org, or look at some of the Mac prototypes in museums. Apple swapped my early Twiggy prototype for a Sony prototype when they changed drives. Good thing, since the Twiggy drive I had was flaky. It could read its own disks most of the time, but was very poor at reading a disk written on another drive. And no, I don't have that prototype. Apple wanted it back when the Mac was about to ship, and they sent Beck-Tech a couple of production Macs.
The people who designed the Mac are still alive. Ask them.
As for square pixels, remember that NTSC "pixels" aren't square either. They are probably closer to Lisa-shape than Mac-shape, if they can be said to have any shape at all, since NTSC is not a pixel-based but analog system. The horizontal resolution is greater than vertical, so NTSC pixels are usually taller than they are wide, as in the Amiga, Apple //e, Apple ///, IBM CGA, Atari, etc. Like the Mac, Lisa isn't NTSC-compatible.
Not well-known or documented, the first Mac II video card aka the Toby Frame Buffer can output "NTSC" interlaced RGB. You need a little control panel which was available to developers who didn't have an Apple Hi-Res RGB monitor. I drove my Apple II RGB monitor that way for a month until Apple filled my order for a Trinitron. Remember that Apple II RGB with the motorized tilt control?
Of course it isn't, but...
Earlier there was the suggestion of putting the guts of a compact Mac into this gutted Lisa's case, and I do have to vaguely wonder if the Lisa monitor might be able to sync up with the output from that. I'll admit I don't know nuttin about birthin' no babies when it comes to the specifics, but based solely on a read of the specs and a look at the monitor board schematic on sunder.net it seems to me in principle you might be able to Frankenstein a compact Mac board into a Lisa. Both monitors are TTL and what specs I've been able to find indicates that they both run at 60hz and have approximately the same vertical resolution. (342 vs 364 lines. The latter figure changes to 431 with MacXL "square pixels" modification. I have no idea if the XL screen mod involved swapping out the monitor board or simply adjusting it. If it's the former then you might have less luck with an "XL-ed" Lisa 2's monitor than a plain one.)
Anyway. Someone with more monitor hacking experience might be able to shed more light on this. Granted the 512x342 on a 12" monitor you'd end up with would give your mutant hybrid a sort of Fisher-Price "My First Mac" vibe, but.. that's the best reason to do it!
The Lisa 2 was the same drive as the Mac 128k so far as I know. If you're looking for pictures of Lisa 1 "Twiggy" mechanisms a Google image search for "Apple Lisa Twiggy" will net you plenty of pictures. Here's a site with some. The drive itself isn't much to look at.
(Note the Lisa in these pictures sold for $10,000 a few years ago)
I did some digging around in my iDisk backups from back in the day and found the two most convincing pieces of evidence that the Shugart Drive was, at the very least, considered in the early stages of Mac development.
I never said that all the early ProtoMacs were based upon the Shugart FDD, ISTR that there were several case designs vying for early prototyping. IIRC, from research done about 9 years ago, the final 128k form factor was a late to the gate entry and that Steve Jobs had wanted to use the "Twiggy Drive" up until the very last second. I'm pretty sure that I included quoted txt from several sources on the design process from the folks who'd done the work, but I'm not certain and I can't check it out.
I'm sure that the Lisa didn't use the Shugart FDD, that's fairly obvious from the pics. I just wanted to KNOW that they used the "Twiggy Drive" from someone who had their hands on an actual Lisa. I'm unfamiliar with the third drive you mentioned, so I'll need to research that one now too! [] ]'>
ClearShugartProtoMacHack™
Reference materials:
IIRC, the ShugartProtoMac pic was, ostensibly, from a scan out of Appledesign that I found somewhere in my searches. I did a cut & paste of the front part of the Shugart Mechanism Pic I'd found and aligned it as best I could with the Appledesign scan. I have a lot of shots of two Lisa Style FDD ProtoMac, as shown in the early advert, that I've collected over the years. There is one conspicuous difference, the "Twiggy" ProtoMac Case has the asymmetrical opening of the Lisa, but no holes for the oddly offset eject button, nor does the case in the advert appear to have provision for the button for that matter.
Still curious about all of this, but the ClearShugartProtoMacHack™ has been bubbling up from the back of my mind with regularity ever since I found that very cool pic. I wonder if it was done by FrogDesign?
Thanks for the link to the drive bay pics, G!
I never said that all the early ProtoMacs were based upon the Shugart FDD, ISTR that there were several case designs vying for early prototyping. IIRC, from research done about 9 years ago, the final 128k form factor was a late to the gate entry and that Steve Jobs had wanted to use the "Twiggy Drive" up until the very last second. I'm pretty sure that I included quoted txt from several sources on the design process from the folks who'd done the work, but I'm not certain and I can't check it out.
I'm sure that the Lisa didn't use the Shugart FDD, that's fairly obvious from the pics. I just wanted to KNOW that they used the "Twiggy Drive" from someone who had their hands on an actual Lisa. I'm unfamiliar with the third drive you mentioned, so I'll need to research that one now too! [
] ]'>ClearShugartProtoMacHack™
Reference materials:
IIRC, the ShugartProtoMac pic was, ostensibly, from a scan out of Appledesign that I found somewhere in my searches. I did a cut & paste of the front part of the Shugart Mechanism Pic I'd found and aligned it as best I could with the Appledesign scan. I have a lot of shots of two Lisa Style FDD ProtoMac, as shown in the early advert, that I've collected over the years. There is one conspicuous difference, the "Twiggy" ProtoMac Case has the asymmetrical opening of the Lisa, but no holes for the oddly offset eject button, nor does the case in the advert appear to have provision for the button for that matter.
Still curious about all of this, but the ClearShugartProtoMacHack™ has been bubbling up from the back of my mind with regularity ever since I found that very cool pic. I wonder if it was done by FrogDesign?
Thanks for the link to the drive bay pics, G!
/MOD/ Discussions about this Lisa belong in this thread. Any discussions about that other Lisa belong in its own thread.