Thread
Construct a Sonnet Crescendo PB1400?
I just read online that the PPC 740 (aka G3) is pin-compatible with the 603ev.
Although i'm sure there more to it than just this, but couldn't a 603 be desoldered from a PB1400 processor card and replace with a 740 to make a Sonnet Crescendo upgrade card?
Although i'm sure there more to it than just this, but couldn't a 603 be desoldered from a PB1400 processor card and replace with a 740 to make a Sonnet Crescendo upgrade card?
Hmmm. I will look at mine very closely!
Let ya know soon... I hope
RP
BTW the sonnet software does Not seem to be a necessity to run the sonnet cpu... so that is not an obstacle!
Let ya know soon... I hope
RP
BTW the sonnet software does Not seem to be a necessity to run the sonnet cpu... so that is not an obstacle!
Well I can already see one problem. The CPU die is attached via Ball Grid Array, which isn't easy to reproduce using hobbyist soldering equipment.
There was some speculation about this topic in another thread where we were talking about the 6400/6500.
Unfortunately it did not really go very far. Someone still needs to actually get one of these CPUs and try it.
Unfortunately it did not really go very far. Someone still needs to actually get one of these CPUs and try it.
The original spec for the G3 was for pin for pin compatibility with the QFP 603e and many were made in that package, but these are EXTREMELY hard to find. Most were produced in the BGA package, and hence, need a special adapter board which puts the height out of whack for the heat sinks in laptops . . .
. . . and the adapters just happen to cost a few hundred dollars apiece! 8-o
. . . and the adapters just happen to cost a few hundred dollars apiece! 8-o
Even though its pin-to-pin compatible.
that doesnt mean its logically compatible? doesnt the ROM have to support it? what about the chipset/memory bus?
that doesnt mean its logically compatible? doesnt the ROM have to support it? what about the chipset/memory bus?
The 740 still speaks 60x bus, so that's not the problem, and the ROMs will work fine. The problem is actually finding a 740 (and the most plentiful supply is -- you guessed it -- upgrade cards).
Pin for pin compatible means you yank one off and solder the other one down and it works. Dollars to donuts that's how Apple turned the 3400c into the Kanga G3. The only sticking point for doing a 2300c->G3 would be the clock doubling resistors. A fellow PowerDuo hacker back in the day had a few QFP G3 Procs, but he never found the "resistor" array on the 2300c MoBo to hack to get the G3 to run any faster than the stock Proc. If I ever get my hands on a QFP G3 it's ProcSwapin time for one of my 2300c MoBos . . .
. . . I'll rig up a Fugly@$$3D resistor set soldered right from powerpads and onto the raised off their pads QFPs Clock Doubling Legs! [}
] ]'>
Speaking of PB1400 G3s . . . I just snagged a beat up/stripped/@$$-Flapless 1400c 166 G3 off an eBay Store as a Buy it Now for all of $35.94 including shipping! [
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I'll believe it when I have it in my grubby little paws and disassemble it to peek at the ProcCard, but I contacted the seller to let him know that "stock" 1400s ain't got G3s in'em, but he confirmed that there was indeed a G3 in the fugly sucker!
If it's true, it'll be posted in conquests right quick! :lol: MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. . . I'll rig up a Fugly@$$3D resistor set soldered right from powerpads and onto the raised off their pads QFPs Clock Doubling Legs! [}
] ]'>Speaking of PB1400 G3s . . . I just snagged a beat up/stripped/@$$-Flapless 1400c 166 G3 off an eBay Store as a Buy it Now for all of $35.94 including shipping! [
] ]'>I'll believe it when I have it in my grubby little paws and disassemble it to peek at the ProcCard, but I contacted the seller to let him know that "stock" 1400s ain't got G3s in'em, but he confirmed that there was indeed a G3 in the fugly sucker!
If it's true, it'll be posted in conquests right quick! :lol: MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anybody got a Kanga available to peek inside and see if the G3 is QFP or BGA? }
I'd gladly turn one of those BiG@$$beasties back into a 3400c by doing a two-way brain transplant with a 2300c! :approve:
I'd gladly turn one of those BiG@$$beasties back into a 3400c by doing a two-way brain transplant with a 2300c! :approve:
I reason I ask is because I happen to have a spare processor card for the 1400, and would be willing to "donate" it for experiments, on the condition that I have it returned in the case of actually creating a G3 upgrade card.
For what its worth, the 1400/166's CPU is BGA, the 1400/117's is QFP, so if anyone actually tries this, they'll have to get one of the faster cards. Never seen a 1400/133 CPU card in the flesh, so I have no idea about them.
another issue with the duo 2300c to G3 would be, where would you dissipate the added heat from the CPU? its fanless. unless you hack a fan in somewhere without melting your keyboard keys from CPU heat.
According to the features listed on the box that my $299.95 brand spankin' new (in May of '05) from Sonnet: PBG3-466-1M CrescendoPB came in: ". . . the low-power copper technology extends the battery life by up to 30% . . ." so I've always figured that the G3 probably ran cooler than the 603e on the stock cards. But they used the Second Gen BGA G3 on their accelerators, the QFP G3 may well have run hotter than the 603e, but I kinda doubt it.
*^&<$^^%>&*^*&^()**%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just tore a 3400c, that was half apart already, all the way down to a freakin' BGA 603e! FEH!!!!
There goes that donor possibility! :disapprove:
*^&<$^^%>&*^*&^()**%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just tore a 3400c, that was half apart already, all the way down to a freakin' BGA 603e! FEH!!!!
There goes that donor possibility! :disapprove:
I was looking at that. Just couldn't justify $55 to ship it to me with only the possibility that it has a G3 in it. Hope you are lucky and it does have one.Speaking of PB1400 G3s . . . I just snagged a beat up/stripped/@$$-Flapless 1400c 166 G3 off an eBay Store as a Buy it Now for all of $35.94 including shipping! [
So... I'm skeptical as to it being correct, but some sources claim that the lowest-end 233mhz PowerBook G3, the cacheless model, came with a PPC 740 instead of a PPC 750 on the CPU card. If someone has one of those in their junk drawer and is willing to yank the heat sink off it to see if it actually *is* a 740 rather than a 750, well... that would be a source for a BGA 740. Not that that would really help you with a Duo 2300c if it uses a QFP chip. It *might* be usable on a 1400's CPU card if you could bribe someone who has access to BGA rework equipment to help you swap it out, as it seems at least some 1400 CPUs are BGA. (Pictures of the Sonnet Crescendo 1400 cards show a BGA CPU...)
To be honest I'm finding it difficult to find evidence that QFP PPC 740s existed at all.
To be honest I'm finding it difficult to find evidence that QFP PPC 740s existed at all.
If it DOESN'T, he's going to need jump through some hoops to make me a happy eBayer. It's in the communications log that this particular 1400c definitely HAS got a G3 on board! } 
)
) I'm pretty sure that the ProcCard in the CrescendoPB Bag was from "Beater," my maxed out 1400c/166. I'm holding in my hand ATM and it's a QFP Proc.
I'm almost certain they do, I had a running conversation on 'fritter, back in the day, with a notorious DuoHacker about the source of his QFP G3 collection. IIRC it was a boxy green assembly for something not Macintosh related and it was an iffy proposition to strike QFP Gold or just wind up with another fetid BGA POS in your hands.
IIRC this was the same guy who managed to transplant the Video Controller ASIC from a 1400c (?) onto the underside of the Duo MLB and get it to function properly. It's too bad there's no way to search the "old guard" 'fritter archive. I was helping him look for the resistor pack that controlled the bus multiplier and I trust what he told me, he knew his stuff!
You mean MadDog?http://www.applefritter.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=hacks;action=display;num=1058488440;start=
I have not read through the thread yet but it came up in a search and the post title looks like it is related.
The search does work(and did years ago as I recall).. it is just that the default settings are too restrictive.
(just as they were back then)Again, I have not read through the threads but the titles seem like they would be at least somewhat related I suppose. I only searched for QFP G3.. but the search function works.
http://www.applefritter.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=hacks;action=display;num=1072284206;start=0
http://www.applefritter.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=hacks;action=display;num=1047179270;start=0
In this thread you mention his site.. perhaps that is where you start when contacting him?
http://www.applefritter.com/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=hacks;action=display;num=1071435868;start=
http://home.comcast.net/~gionpeters/hhhh/hhhh.htm
Thanks, yes, it was definitely MadDog with whom I was in touch, thanks for doing that leg work, comrade!
It's off to dreamland for me ATM!
Thanks again!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
It's off to dreamland for me ATM!
Thanks again!
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Protip: When using the Applefritter archive search, enter this:
Max Age since last post: 0 hours + 99999 days
Max Age since last post: 0 hours + 99999 days
Based on searches of the Applefritter forum I think you may be confusing MadDog's statements about fast QFP 603e CPUs as applying to G3s. From this thread:
In another thread MadDog stated he didn't believe that even the more-modern 603ev came in QFP packages. Thus I'm still faceplanting on the effort to find evidence that QFP 740s exist. (If you look at *all* of MadDog's postings he never even mentions the 740.)
Drat! This may turn out to be the case, but it doesn't really matter. :disapprove:
The OP mentioned making a "roll your own" Sonnet CrescendoPB, which wouldn't be the case even if the processor on a 1400 Processor Card could be replaced with a G3. The thing that makes my CrescendoPB G3/466 1M a much faster solution is the 1M part. Without the large cache, a "roll your own" version couldn't keep up with the "real deal" at all.
As an aside: I'm very disappointed with the item I received from eBay!
Instead of a 1400c/166 w/G3, I received a 1400cs/117 (no cache) and what TechTool Pro confirms is the vanilla, cacheless 603e/117 Processor Card. I've contacted the seller, hopefully it was an honest mistake and I'll receive the "real deal" or, at the very least, the much more capable 1400c/166 in exchange.
We'll see! :
The OP mentioned making a "roll your own" Sonnet CrescendoPB, which wouldn't be the case even if the processor on a 1400 Processor Card could be replaced with a G3. The thing that makes my CrescendoPB G3/466 1M a much faster solution is the 1M part. Without the large cache, a "roll your own" version couldn't keep up with the "real deal" at all.
As an aside: I'm very disappointed with the item I received from eBay!
Instead of a 1400c/166 w/G3, I received a 1400cs/117 (no cache) and what TechTool Pro confirms is the vanilla, cacheless 603e/117 Processor Card. I've contacted the seller, hopefully it was an honest mistake and I'll receive the "real deal" or, at the very least, the much more capable 1400c/166 in exchange.
We'll see! :
Any luck getting the proper unit from the seller?
Nope, and I'm REALLY disappointed about it too. :disapprove:
However, I've got a deal in the works with him for a hefty refund that'll be applied to a Kanga that'll wind up costing me less than $10 as a consolation prize!
Having a new Road-Apple_PlayToy, that I've always wanted, arrive at that price will make me a VERY happy camper! [] ]'>
The 1400csPOS has great hinge action and no stress marks at all on the back edge of the Lid, so it's now officially a PartsBook! }
However, I've got a deal in the works with him for a hefty refund that'll be applied to a Kanga that'll wind up costing me less than $10 as a consolation prize!
Having a new Road-Apple_PlayToy, that I've always wanted, arrive at that price will make me a VERY happy camper! [
] ]'>The 1400csPOS has great hinge action and no stress marks at all on the back edge of the Lid, so it's now officially a PartsBook! }
That sucks. I did inquire as to the CPU speed and they stated 1ghz...which does not exist. Needless to say I did not bid on it.
On the plus. you get an awesome Kanga. I have always wanted a working version but the only one I have had apparently was very good at killing hard drives.
Have you considered reviving the 1400cs just for S&Gs or is the logic board a bust?
On the plus. you get an awesome Kanga. I have always wanted a working version but the only one I have had apparently was very good at killing hard drives.
Have you considered reviving the 1400cs just for S&Gs or is the logic board a bust?
There are no S****-n-Giggles to be had in playing around with any csPOS, whatever the model . . . for me anyway!
This sucker is TOAST! }
It boots just fine, if sluggardly, using the PCMCIA Adapters and Flash Cards for "Beater," my maxed out 1400c/G3/1M Crescendo with sticky hinges and irreparable lid lesions . . . :
. . . Beater's screen has been :simasimac: for some reason or other, either by hinge pinch or MEK leakage when I tried to weld it . . . :I
So all's fair in love-n-war and I really love my very first WiFiRoadWarrior, so ANY of the several 1400s in my collection are prospective DonorBooks until Beater is back in the (relatively beat-up lookin') PINK!
The Kanga will be BeaterIII, BeaterII is a nice Pismo I got as backup for HP_Mini and BeaterII is a WallstreetPDQ that was part of the craigslist package deal I did for the Pismo along with an AirPort equipped Bondi Blue Toilet Seat that's in no way fit to follow in the footsteps of my precious Beater! [}
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