Thread
Removing angle connector from IIsi Nubus adapter
I want (I was going to say "need," but that wouldn't be honest) to remove the 90º PDS angle bit from a IIsi nubus adapter, in order to use it in a SE/30 (in order to have two pds cards). This means de-soldering a lengthy and numerous series of wires from the adapter card.
How should I best go about this, and how do I do it without melting the plastics at the pds connector itself?
How should I best go about this, and how do I do it without melting the plastics at the pds connector itself?
Are you going to try to use the NuBus slot in your SE/30? This may prove to be problematic, because the "NuBus" signal present on the IIsi's PDS is conspicuously missing on the SE/30's PDS.
If you just need a PDS PassThru, the NuBus adapter won't work anyway, it only has PDS in and the smaller NuBus connector out.
Check out a less than elegant, but remarkably effective, EuroDIN Connector De-Construction technique I developed.
I practiced on the inexpensive (available from macmetex's eBay store) SuperMac RA PDS Adapter card before working on the inexpensive (also available from macmetex's eBay store) Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi Card which makes a fine PassThru Video Card (w/addressing jumpers available on board) for my IIsi, but it ought to work in your SE/30 as well.
Dunno, give us some more details. :?:
If you just need a PDS PassThru, the NuBus adapter won't work anyway, it only has PDS in and the smaller NuBus connector out.
Check out a less than elegant, but remarkably effective, EuroDIN Connector De-Construction technique I developed.
I practiced on the inexpensive (available from macmetex's eBay store) SuperMac RA PDS Adapter card before working on the inexpensive (also available from macmetex's eBay store) Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi Card which makes a fine PassThru Video Card (w/addressing jumpers available on board) for my IIsi, but it ought to work in your SE/30 as well.
Dunno, give us some more details. :?:
Trash, interesting technique for removing the connector. I thought about taking an end-mill to one and going over it really slow, but now I don't have access to one. Did it seem like you weren't stressing the pins and solder joints?
Another idea I have to remove the socket is to cut it into smaller lengths with a saw and then heat a smaller group of pins and hopefully get the smaller block out in time before pins cool-off.
Someone posted somewhere to use a heat gun and cover all the components with modeling clay to insulate them from heat. You could put a couple layers of aluminum foil over the clay to insulate it even more. This is the method I am thinking of trying first to remove the PDS pass-through connector from a Asante ethernet board.
Another idea I have to remove the socket is to cut it into smaller lengths with a saw and then heat a smaller group of pins and hopefully get the smaller block out in time before pins cool-off.
Someone posted somewhere to use a heat gun and cover all the components with modeling clay to insulate them from heat. You could put a couple layers of aluminum foil over the clay to insulate it even more. This is the method I am thinking of trying first to remove the PDS pass-through connector from a Asante ethernet board.
Breaking it up is certainly a simple method — but it surely doesn't work without also desoldering, does it?
What I was thinking of doing was using the 90º angle of the disassembled IIsi card, then connecting another IIsi PDS 'euro-din' connector at the 'wire' end, then plugging in another pds card. The purpose of this is to pop a (repaired) SE/30 MacCon ethernet card with PDS pass-through connector into my SE/30, connect the 90º piece, and finally stack an SE/30 video card on top of it, so I could run a two page Radius display and have ethernet in an SE/30. It is something I have wanted to do for a while. I have only just sourced the components to repair the MacCon card, but am trying to see how best to make the necessary connections between it and the other hardware I want to install.
If there is a better way of making the MacCon-to-Radius card connection, I'd love to know about it. I asked about this a while ago, but did not get especially far....
The trouble with the MacCon pds pass-through is that it was made to be just the right height for the IIsi, but by the same token, it is probably in the worst possible place in an SE/30. The floppy is in the way, and the metal frame, so that nothing can be plugged into the thing in an SE/30.
What I was thinking of doing was using the 90º angle of the disassembled IIsi card, then connecting another IIsi PDS 'euro-din' connector at the 'wire' end, then plugging in another pds card. The purpose of this is to pop a (repaired) SE/30 MacCon ethernet card with PDS pass-through connector into my SE/30, connect the 90º piece, and finally stack an SE/30 video card on top of it, so I could run a two page Radius display and have ethernet in an SE/30. It is something I have wanted to do for a while. I have only just sourced the components to repair the MacCon card, but am trying to see how best to make the necessary connections between it and the other hardware I want to install.
If there is a better way of making the MacCon-to-Radius card connection, I'd love to know about it. I asked about this a while ago, but did not get especially far....
The trouble with the MacCon pds pass-through is that it was made to be just the right height for the IIsi, but by the same token, it is probably in the worst possible place in an SE/30. The floppy is in the way, and the metal frame, so that nothing can be plugged into the thing in an SE/30.
Yes, desoldering as COMPLETELY as possible was done before deconstruction of the *&*^&&^^$%#$#@ connector, which would not let go of the PCB. Very little tension was applied to the few (15-20) pins that had resisted the desoldering process by hanging on to the edge of the thru-hole. I didn't pull the connector out at all, I crushed the blasted thing, munching at it sideways from on end to the other.
Check out the end of the IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™ topic for pics of a great way to stack SE/30/IIsi cards in the SE/30 or line them up across the underside of the IIsi's MoBo.
I'll be modifying the IIsiColorPivotII card or the SuperMac PDS adapter to mount to the bottom of the PDS slot in my IIsi. Everything depends upon ROM testing at this point, the SE/30 apparently has five available addresses for expansion, while the IIsi ROM only supports three slots.. The other test will be to determine if I can use the NuBus adapter with at least the two PDS Cards which the IIsi ROM should support along with a NuBus Card.
Check out the end of the IIsiColorPivotII_PDS_Card_HackProject™ topic for pics of a great way to stack SE/30/IIsi cards in the SE/30 or line them up across the underside of the IIsi's MoBo.
I'll be modifying the IIsiColorPivotII card or the SuperMac PDS adapter to mount to the bottom of the PDS slot in my IIsi. Everything depends upon ROM testing at this point, the SE/30 apparently has five available addresses for expansion, while the IIsi ROM only supports three slots.. The other test will be to determine if I can use the NuBus adapter with at least the two PDS Cards which the IIsi ROM should support along with a NuBus Card.
I used a smoothing iron to remove EISA 32 bit slots from a PC mobo.
I wanted the slots for my Amiga2000 back then and soldered them in.
I wanted the slots for my Amiga2000 back then and soldered them in.
Now that's interesting. Do you mean an antique one place on a stove/ burner and heated up fit to bust, or a normal, bog-standard, iron-yer-clothes electric iron? Can the latter really get hot enough to melt ordinary lead solder?
WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!! [
] ]'> Gotta love it!
< #$^$^&&^%&^%*&%*!!!!!!!!
Something finally got me to install the evil FLASH PLAYER! :disapprove: >
] ]'> Gotta love it!< #$^$^&&^%&^%*&%*!!!!!!!!
Hint: if you can change your user agent to Safari for iPad, it will serve HTML5 compliant h.264 mp4 video instead of Flash.
It doesn't matter, either way I'll have to work at not becoming a YouTubeBoob!
ChipQuick (sp?) is a magic goo that softens the solder. Free samples and directions for use at their site. The other thing you need is either a solder sucker (manual bulb, spring loaded, whatever) or/and some desoldering braid - fine, woven copper wire that soaks up the solder. Work on alternating pins some distance apart, so the area you've just finished has time to cool.
Just to confirm - yes I did it with a standard electric iron like shown in the video, actually my fingers became hot too 
Soft solder flux or a solder sucker may help, but I simply pulled out the slots.
I did not mind the solder on the pins, because I would need some anyway on my partial empty A2000 board.
Soft solder flux or a solder sucker may help, but I simply pulled out the slots.
I did not mind the solder on the pins, because I would need some anyway on my partial empty A2000 board.
Cotton setting? :?: Cool beans!
Just for the record: we're talking about removing the connector from a PDS Card, not the NuBus Card, correct . . .
. . . or are you trying to get a NuBus Card stacked into an SE/30 along with a PDS Card? :?:
Just for the record: we're talking about removing the connector from a PDS Card, not the NuBus Card, correct . . .
. . . or are you trying to get a NuBus Card stacked into an SE/30 along with a PDS Card? :?:
PDS
Do you want me to change the topic to . . . a PDS Card Connector as opposed to a NuBus Card Connector?
As I said, the IIsi NuBus adapter card is of no use other than as a NuBus Chipset/bridge/Right Angle Adapter for the IIsi . . . for now! }
It has to be a PDS Card to work, like the inexpensive ones I mentioned above.
Tell us which of the Gamba PDS hacks you're trying to do or sketch, scan & post the notion you're playing with along with the scoop on all the cards you'd like to use to overburden your SE/30's PSU.
] ]'>
As I said, the IIsi NuBus adapter card is of no use other than as a NuBus Chipset/bridge/Right Angle Adapter for the IIsi . . . for now! }
It has to be a PDS Card to work, like the inexpensive ones I mentioned above.
Tell us which of the Gamba PDS hacks you're trying to do or sketch, scan & post the notion you're playing with along with the scoop on all the cards you'd like to use to overburden your SE/30's PSU.
Been there, gave up on that. With a lot of hand work it's possible, but tedious to do it that way. I tried it with a blade that was way too big on my Bandsaw with mixed results. With the right blade and an incrementally stopped jig/sliding table it'd probably work, but ChipQuick and an iron seem like the ticket for my next attempt at pulling a usable EuroDIN Connector of a donor card . . . AFTER I run out of the parts trag sold me. [
] ]'>
ChipQuick, the low temp solder alloy, got me nowhere. The stuff started flowing into the pins of the socket, and probably created shorts, so now I need to definitely remove the Euro-Din connector if I ever want to use the board again.
Which Friggin' Board? PDS or NuBus Adapter and WHY????
I hope you're practicing on one of the inexpensive substitutes I suggested and NOT borking something as valuable as a IIsi NuBus Adapter!
WT*H*e*Doubletoothpics is going on with these hacks!?! :O
I hope you're practicing on one of the inexpensive substitutes I suggested and NOT borking something as valuable as a IIsi NuBus Adapter!
WT*H*e*Doubletoothpics is going on with these hacks!?! :O
What I want is effectively Gamba's SE/30egs, and it is a IIsi PDS to Nubus adapter that I had thought it possible to cannibalize, but I shall investigate the other options. I am some weeks from doing anything yet.
I think I have three of those IIsi cards. But on Gamba, the thing I really need and that would make all of this straightforward is just the angle adapter that he sold to make dual PDS setups in the machine trivial. I don't suppose anyone kept a few spares?
I think I have three of those IIsi cards. But on Gamba, the thing I really need and that would make all of this straightforward is just the angle adapter that he sold to make dual PDS setups in the machine trivial. I don't suppose anyone kept a few spares?
Let me get this straight: you have the Asante IIsi/Se/30 NIC and you'd rather not remove the PDS Passthru Connector from it? Doing such would clearly be the most elegant way to do this hack. The photo above is an inexcusable Kluge, especially so if you're intending to sacrifice a worthwhile IIsi NuBus adapter for that RA Connector. Trag has some bare RA adapters (brand new) if you want to do it the ugly way as pictured. It's far better, RFI-wise and reliability-wise, to forgo that approach!
Desolder the PDS Passthru connector on the Asante NIC and solder in one of trag's replacements so you'll have sometin similar to this covfiguration:
The upper card won't be as high, being the Asante NIC instead of the unobtanium two-slot IIsi PDS Adapter, which looks to be hacked at any rate. Much better to hack the very common Asante NIC using a new connector and be done with it.
What card(s) do you intend to plug into the new straight PDS Passthru arrangement on your Asante NIC? Have you got an accelerator or a video card? :?:
I'll post a pic of my CardStackHack while it's installed straight up in my IIsi as if it were installed in and SE/30.
Very helpful and just what I needed to know. I have a Radius Two Page Display that ought to run from an SE/30 two page display card (I have three of these here in a box). I want to stack one of them — don't especially care which so long as it works, but the best looking one is a Supermac, and that for the present is the working proposal — on top of the MacCon card, so as to have both ethernet and extended desktop in an SE/30.
Just so I understand correctly, the top connector on the MacCon card is horizontal; Trag has angled ones, or by the look of the pics, ones that connect through the side. THAT would indeed be what I need.
Just so I understand correctly, the top connector on the MacCon card is horizontal; Trag has angled ones, or by the look of the pics, ones that connect through the side. THAT would indeed be what I need.
How tall is your SuperMac Card, or the others for that matter? If you get one of the Radius Color Pivot II/IIsi Cards, IT JUST MIGHT FIT in between if the TPD Display Card is not too tall, That'll add an 8 Bit Color Display to your GS TPD extended desktop for the B&W Se/30's CRT! [
] ]'>
Got some pics of your trio of TPD Cards to go with the dimensions? }
] ]'>Got some pics of your trio of TPD Cards to go with the dimensions? }
Pics. I would need to do excavations to measure two of the three, but the SuperMac that has the DB15 is 16.5cm high. A MacCon card is 6.5 cm high. Together, depending on how the soldering went, the two would come to something around 23cm. An SE/30 case is about 32cm high, meaning that inside there should be something in the region of 28 cm available.
The other PDS video cards are about the same height, but have eccentric ports, as you can see from the images, making them less obviously usable. However, I do have a large collection of cables as well as cards, including BNC to DB15 oddities, so in a pinch, or if the SuperMac card were to prove dead, I could use one of the others.
Not sure that I really want three monitors with the SE/30, mind you, as it is the retro part that interests me about retro-computing, and the two page display was used with the SE/30 in industry -- but it would definitely do Colour, you say? And no slot conflicts?
The other PDS video cards are about the same height, but have eccentric ports, as you can see from the images, making them less obviously usable. However, I do have a large collection of cables as well as cards, including BNC to DB15 oddities, so in a pinch, or if the SuperMac card were to prove dead, I could use one of the others.
Not sure that I really want three monitors with the SE/30, mind you, as it is the retro part that interests me about retro-computing, and the two page display was used with the SE/30 in industry -- but it would definitely do Colour, you say? And no slot conflicts?
So, having watched that video of desoldering with a clothes iron, my impression is that I would be very leery of using that method on a card I intended to use again afterwards. It just seems too fast, too likely to cause bad solder joints elsewhere on the device. Any thoughts, folks?
I have a flat waffle iron here I am planning to put into service for this kind of thing, but not before adding a more accurate and adjustable thermostat. I always thought best practice was to heat the PCB to just below solder melt, so a quick tap per joint with the iron is all it takes.
There's a couple of good articles on toaster oven reflow in Silicon Chip http://www.siliconchip.com.au . There's a recommended heat up, hold, and cool down curve over time for solder, a different one for leaded and lead-free, to ensure good, reliable joints. In the first article, they monitored the temp by eye with a thermocouple and multimeter, and it rose and fell comfortably within the curve. The second article is about adding a microcontroller driven thermostat/timer, which is now available as a kit ($80 :-/ ) - probably from http://www.jaycar.com.au.
Sorry, posting from my phone again, so I can't check those links.
I have a flat waffle iron here I am planning to put into service for this kind of thing, but not before adding a more accurate and adjustable thermostat. I always thought best practice was to heat the PCB to just below solder melt, so a quick tap per joint with the iron is all it takes.
There's a couple of good articles on toaster oven reflow in Silicon Chip http://www.siliconchip.com.au . There's a recommended heat up, hold, and cool down curve over time for solder, a different one for leaded and lead-free, to ensure good, reliable joints. In the first article, they monitored the temp by eye with a thermocouple and multimeter, and it rose and fell comfortably within the curve. The second article is about adding a microcontroller driven thermostat/timer, which is now available as a kit ($80 :-/ ) - probably from http://www.jaycar.com.au.
Sorry, posting from my phone again, so I can't check those links.
tt - sorry to hear ChipQuick didn't work out for you. Were you using it in conjunction with wick or a solder sucker?
I tried it about a year ago...basically an attempt to get the whole thing out at once with a soldering iron. I think it may be end up being helpful with a heat gun though.
When I first started trying this, I thought about going the route of solder sucker with a soldering iron. That technique should work, but it is very tedious and you really have to make sure every single pin is not sticking to a via.
Well . . . If I had an SE/30 to hack, I'd do a takeoff on this KlugeMac Config . . .
. . . the first thing I'd do is to leave the Asante Card Stock, if at all possible . . .
. . . Adapt the (first of two) Radius Color Pivot II Cards as I've done with the SuperMac PDS Adapter . . .
. . . install the Radius Color Pivot II "spacer" in the the SE/30's PDS Slot . . .
. . . install the Stock Asante NIC atop the Radius Color Pivot II . . .
. . . Install the TPD's matching VidCard horizontally in place of the PowerCache in the diagram above . . .
. . . then test for CRT Clearance, if it works great, if it doesn't . . .
. . . I've got two methods of dropping the NIC's connector down to two different different levels for achieving proper clearance up my sleeve! }
BTW, the "Standard DTP Workstation" was indeed an SE or SE/30 with FPD or TPD when it came to Compact Macs. However, as color CRTs came down in price and color previews became important, the IIci came into its own, usually coupled with said B&W or Grayscale FPD or TPD and a smallish (by today's standards) 13" RGB "High Res" Display or something like that for PhotoShop work and layout preview, so a three screen SE/30 would have been the "Semi-Portable" DTP or CAD Workstation of choice in the configuration I've suggested.
Place an order to macmetex, take two RCPII/IIsi Cards and "call me" in the morning! :lol:
. . . the first thing I'd do is to leave the Asante Card Stock, if at all possible . . .
. . . Adapt the (first of two) Radius Color Pivot II Cards as I've done with the SuperMac PDS Adapter . . .
. . . install the Radius Color Pivot II "spacer" in the the SE/30's PDS Slot . . .
. . . install the Stock Asante NIC atop the Radius Color Pivot II . . .
. . . Install the TPD's matching VidCard horizontally in place of the PowerCache in the diagram above . . .
. . . then test for CRT Clearance, if it works great, if it doesn't . . .
. . . I've got two methods of dropping the NIC's connector down to two different different levels for achieving proper clearance up my sleeve! }
BTW, the "Standard DTP Workstation" was indeed an SE or SE/30 with FPD or TPD when it came to Compact Macs. However, as color CRTs came down in price and color previews became important, the IIci came into its own, usually coupled with said B&W or Grayscale FPD or TPD and a smallish (by today's standards) 13" RGB "High Res" Display or something like that for PhotoShop work and layout preview, so a three screen SE/30 would have been the "Semi-Portable" DTP or CAD Workstation of choice in the configuration I've suggested.
Place an order to macmetex, take two RCPII/IIsi Cards and "call me" in the morning! :lol:
I think his "adapter" was just a right-angle Euro-din connector. You can probably still order them from Digikey. I don't recommend it though, the pins you would plug into the socket are meant to be soldered to a board so they are too short to make a solid connection.
Well, I agree that modifying a MacCon is not an especially good idea, so looking at it again, I have a) ordered some gear from macmetex and B) pm'd trag re. the availability of euro-din connectors in his stash. You never know.
They are no longer on digikey from what I can see, though they do appear in a handful of manufacturer catalogues. What I fear is needing to order a minimum of a hundred.
They are no longer on digikey from what I can see, though they do appear in a handful of manufacturer catalogues. What I fear is needing to order a minimum of a hundred.
It's not all that BAD an idea either, they're far easier to come by than any other useful card for the SE/30 and cost a LOT less than anything but those bargain basement RCPII/IIsi Cards from macmetex!
I just mean to say that altering the NIC is one of the last steps to take if clearance turns out to be an issue . . .
. . . and I figure that it will be when my good buddy Murphy inevitably pops his head into this hack thread to stir up some problems. [
] ]'>