Thread
7100/80 and Newertech 7MX71/81 + display card problem
I recently obtained Newertech 7MX71/81 240Mhz G3-prosessor card with Graphics card plate-adaptor and attached the stock Apple card to it (extention connector) but so far,
no picture output from the card. The integrated adapter works fine of cos. The CPU card itself works fine after software installation.
Now wondering, is there some software/driver needed for the graphic card as well?
Anyone has this card working with the graphics card attached to it?
no picture output from the card. The integrated adapter works fine of cos. The CPU card itself works fine after software installation.
Now wondering, is there some software/driver needed for the graphic card as well?
Anyone has this card working with the graphics card attached to it?
I have/had/installed for others several. One had symptom ( B) , one was DOA, others were working.
My guess would be:
a) video card not seated properly.
B) problem with the flexible connector - either some pins are bent and touching or some trace is broken due to extensive flexing.
c) not enough power to start if particular machine is "maxed out".
My guess would be:
a) video card not seated properly.
B) problem with the flexible connector - either some pins are bent and touching or some trace is broken due to extensive flexing.
c) not enough power to start if particular machine is "maxed out".
If possible, try the graphics card directly in the G3 upgrade - you will need to remove the 7100 case, at least. This will eliminate the ribbon cable as a problem.
Bunsen:
i am not sure what you mean excatly, but the graphics card is attached directly to the G3-upgrade card itself with the ribbon cable, so either the graphics card runs or not, or just plug if off from the G3-card.
Anyway, the machine works reasonably well with internal integrated graphics chip, just difficult to bend the ribbon cable so it wont touch anything (i.e. case itself). The 7100 casing sure is ugly, but hey, the 4400/200 is even more ugly. Would be fun to have extra Macintosh II or IIcx case to fit the 7100 or 4400 inside! I might be getting some, just talking about the shipping costs of the whole lot.
i am not sure what you mean excatly, but the graphics card is attached directly to the G3-upgrade card itself with the ribbon cable, so either the graphics card runs or not, or just plug if off from the G3-card.
Anyway, the machine works reasonably well with internal integrated graphics chip, just difficult to bend the ribbon cable so it wont touch anything (i.e. case itself). The 7100 casing sure is ugly, but hey, the 4400/200 is even more ugly. Would be fun to have extra Macintosh II or IIcx case to fit the 7100 or 4400 inside! I might be getting some, just talking about the shipping costs of the whole lot.
What I mean is: if the ribbon cable itself has a problem - a break in a line, a short or something like that - it may stop the card from working. If you can remove the ribbon cable and plug the card directly into the slot on the G3 upgrade, and it works, then the ribbon cable is suspect. But it may be physically impossible to do this because of space issues inside the case.
Bunsen,
There is no slot on the Newertech upgrade card, that cable is soldered. ;-)
Ok, on later models it attaches by the way of multipin connector, but that wouldn't help either.
NewerTech had a lot of trouble with that flat flex connector. As I recall, it delayed the release of the entire NuBus G3 upgrade for several months because they had trouble getting it good enough.
So it's a reasonable hypothesis that a problem could rest in the PDS pass through.
Does the video card work properly when installed without the G3 upgrade?
So it's a reasonable hypothesis that a problem could rest in the PDS pass through.
Does the video card work properly when installed without the G3 upgrade?
Ooooh, right. That I did not know.
Ah, that would explain why they later moved to a socketed passthrough - that and consolidating on a single upgrade card for the whole x100 line. Even then, IIRC, the earliest cards with the socket were not guaranteed to work with an HPV/AV card.
8-o What socket? What are you talking about?
The shorter upgrade cards that were made for the 6100, and had the passthrough socket for mounting a video card at right angles to the upgrade. They could be used in a 71/8100, but required a plug-in version of the ribbon cable for the video card due to space issues.
Yes. The card came with the 7100/80 when i got it with maxed out memory, worked fine alone, but not, when attached to the G3-card. Sure looks like the ribbon cable-extention is the problem there.
Could get an NuBus graphics card instead.
400 MHz Sonnet upgrade for $29.95 here:
https://secure1.sonnettech.com/index.php?cPath=22_91&osCsid=a3bf1e35523d314892d644e078aa4401
The PDS pass-through is also available there for an additional $19.95.
Back when, Sonnet was not compatible with the NuBus JackHammer card and the NewerTech upgrade was. I don't know if they solved that problem. I think they eventually did, but I can't swear to it.
Oh, looks like you're in Finland. I don't know if they do international shipping, or if they're reasonable about it, if they do.
https://secure1.sonnettech.com/index.php?cPath=22_91&osCsid=a3bf1e35523d314892d644e078aa4401
The PDS pass-through is also available there for an additional $19.95.
Back when, Sonnet was not compatible with the NuBus JackHammer card and the NewerTech upgrade was. I don't know if they solved that problem. I think they eventually did, but I can't swear to it.
Oh, looks like you're in Finland. I don't know if they do international shipping, or if they're reasonable about it, if they do.
I'm glad to have found this thread, it's much more efficient to tag more posts onto this one than to start a brand new one. I just got some of these myself and the video passthru problem presents with both accelerators tested thus far.
First things first though: which is the correct driver on Newer's Legacy Download Page?
http://www.newertech.com/tech_support/support_legacy.php
It looks like Sonnet ran out of their version of these accelerators. :-/
I attempted to try the Sonnet Video Adapter with a Newertech 6100 Card, but they made it fit the full 6100 adapter board spec . . .
. . . the thing tried moon me by sticking its own tuschie out the @$$ end of the 81/110! 8-o
I'll have to set up the bare spare 81/110 board for testing that nasty combo! }
First things first though: which is the correct driver on Newer's Legacy Download Page?
http://www.newertech.com/tech_support/support_legacy.php
It looks like Sonnet ran out of their version of these accelerators. :-/
I attempted to try the Sonnet Video Adapter with a Newertech 6100 Card, but they made it fit the full 6100 adapter board spec . . .
. . . the thing tried moon me by sticking its own tuschie out the @$$ end of the 81/110! 8-o
I'll have to set up the bare spare 81/110 board for testing that nasty combo! }
I would guess the NuPower G3 driver but I don't know for sure. I also have a feeling that their drivers were combined all into the MaxPower product, but I could be wrong. It's just been too many years.
Oh, I have an 8100 with the upgrade in it. If I have it connected to a monitor again, I'll look at the system folder, but that's not likely to happen soon. It's hiding under a desk far from any display at the moment.
Oh, I have an 8100 with the upgrade in it. If I have it connected to a monitor again, I'll look at the system folder, but that's not likely to happen soon. It's hiding under a desk far from any display at the moment.
Drat. I knew I should have picked up a couple of those.
THX, trag.
Forgot to mention: all testing done on a Radius 81/110 Mac Clone under System 7.6.1 at this point.
MAXPower 2.0.3 Installer seems to b the ticket, I've now got a Radius 81/110/G3/???/512 w/HPV up and running. *****
There is definitely something funky going on with the Drivers. Gauge 1.0.2 installed by default in the MAXpowr Folder reports Proc Speed at 220MHz, but TattleTech 2.8.1 reports it at 329.99MHz, neither of which jibes with the info spec'd by BG when he listed this batch of cards. Love 'em, thx, comrade! [] ]'> That's probably due to specs changing and being listed differently for the three different clocks available in this series.
I don't know what's going on with the PDS Passthru, behavior appears to change depending upon whether or not the HPV Card is present and whether it's the first boot upon its installation or not. I need to try this with two or three monitors hooked up at the same time. I can't tell what's happening on the first boot when the monitor is running off the inactive Cable/Card. Curiouser and curiouser . . .
I'll need to try a later version of the MAXpowr drivers when I have some time. The next set of tests will be done in the current config with TechTool added into the mix.
The HPV->MezzanineLevelHack™ will be a bit neater and cleaner in this configuration than it would have been using the Sonnet Card and Cable. With the HPV Card mounted above and perpendicular to the NuBus Slots, all three NuBus Slots are available for the ersatz System 100.
*****NuPower G3 v1.0.3 Installer didn't work in the Radius 81/110. NUpowr G3 control 1.2 (Control Panel) thinks it "cannot be used with this Macintosh."
Forgot to mention: all testing done on a Radius 81/110 Mac Clone under System 7.6.1 at this point.
MAXPower 2.0.3 Installer seems to b the ticket, I've now got a Radius 81/110/G3/???/512 w/HPV up and running. *****
There is definitely something funky going on with the Drivers. Gauge 1.0.2 installed by default in the MAXpowr Folder reports Proc Speed at 220MHz, but TattleTech 2.8.1 reports it at 329.99MHz, neither of which jibes with the info spec'd by BG when he listed this batch of cards. Love 'em, thx, comrade! [
] ]'> That's probably due to specs changing and being listed differently for the three different clocks available in this series.I don't know what's going on with the PDS Passthru, behavior appears to change depending upon whether or not the HPV Card is present and whether it's the first boot upon its installation or not. I need to try this with two or three monitors hooked up at the same time. I can't tell what's happening on the first boot when the monitor is running off the inactive Cable/Card. Curiouser and curiouser . . .
I'll need to try a later version of the MAXpowr drivers when I have some time. The next set of tests will be done in the current config with TechTool added into the mix.
The HPV->MezzanineLevelHack™ will be a bit neater and cleaner in this configuration than it would have been using the Sonnet Card and Cable. With the HPV Card mounted above and perpendicular to the NuBus Slots, all three NuBus Slots are available for the ersatz System 100.
*****NuPower G3 v1.0.3 Installer didn't work in the Radius 81/110. NUpowr G3 control 1.2 (Control Panel) thinks it "cannot be used with this Macintosh."
The speed of the G3 upgrade is probably 8X whatever the bus speed of the host Macintosh is.
So, in an 8100/110, it should be 110/3 = 36.667; 36.667 X 8 = 293.33 MHz.
Although, perhaps NewerTech built slower versions that didn't use the maximum 8X multiplier. Could be 6X I suppose, at: 36.667 X 6 = 220 MHz.
IIRC, xlr8yourmac.com had pretty extensive coverage of these cards as they came out. You might check the archives of articles and daily news items over there.
I would trust GaugePro. It was written by the folks at NewerTech.
Interesting about the drivers. I wonder what that NuPower driver was meant for. It sure seems like 'Nu' should be for NuBus, but I guess not.
So, in an 8100/110, it should be 110/3 = 36.667; 36.667 X 8 = 293.33 MHz.
Although, perhaps NewerTech built slower versions that didn't use the maximum 8X multiplier. Could be 6X I suppose, at: 36.667 X 6 = 220 MHz.
IIRC, xlr8yourmac.com had pretty extensive coverage of these cards as they came out. You might check the archives of articles and daily news items over there.
I would trust GaugePro. It was written by the folks at NewerTech.
Interesting about the drivers. I wonder what that NuPower driver was meant for. It sure seems like 'Nu' should be for NuBus, but I guess not.
Yeah, me too. They stopped displaying them suspiciously close to the end of the year. I suspect that rather than sell out, they either sold all remaining stock to a reseller or just recycled them. The latter would be a tragedy, but they may figure they've sold all that it's worth selling at below cost prices. It might be worth emailing them just to make certain.
On the flip side, while I regret not stocking up on them, what was I really going to use one for? Do I really need a NuBus machine to run faster than about 100MHz? If so, in this day and age, why not just use a PCI Mac?
It's kind of like putting a Turbo601 in your IIci now days. What's the point when you can pick up a 6100 or 7100 for next to nothing -- or could?
THX again, trag.
I saw a couple pop up on eBay recently, dunno what the specs were though. I was guessing that someone may have grabbed the last of what Sonnet had in stock.
I saw a couple pop up on eBay recently, dunno what the specs were though. I was guessing that someone may have grabbed the last of what Sonnet had in stock.
But of course the same question applies for any CPU upgrade. I sometimes ask myself why I bother having to mess around with settings on the G4 in my 7300, but I like my 7300, and it has nostalgia value (and I want to keep the MDD dedicated to Classilla work primarily).
I figure if you're going to collect something, it needs to be upgraded to the point I would have pushed it back in the day.
Back then, I never bought a Mac for production use if it didn't have available accelerators with the processor being upgraded to the next level. I couldn't afford cutting edge Macs or upgrading to the next generation each time. The accelerators let me upgrade half as often. The SE came with the Radius16/CoPro, I bought the used IIx/PanaPro_19 with the intention of Rocketizing it ASAP and the refurb 6360 for eventual Sonnetization.
Back on topic:
I'm thrilled with the batch of these Cards, strange mix of functionality to report:
(1) 220MHz/512k - Video PassThru Functional
(3) 238.3MHz/1MB - Video PassThru Functional
(1) 238.3MHz/512k - Accelerator only works great - Video PassThru implemented causes click-clunk in PSU/No Powerup
(1) 238.3MHz/1MBk - Accelerator only works great - Video PassThru implemented causes click-clunk in PSU/No Powerup
(1) DOA - the 81/110 Tries to boot w/no startup chimes - hits HDD and eventually stops -
- - - gives shutdown alert on hitting Power on KBD button, but hangs when enter/return is pressed
I tested one of the good boards with the Sonnet Adapter Cable and it still worked fine over the extended length. It's a much better design w/components on a PCB 1/3 of the way to the Female connector, which is mounted on a PCB/Flex Cable Adapter. The male connector has strain relieving "mounting ears" on the PCB. I'll bet the integrated design of the Newertech cabling with the Female Connector soldered directly onto the Flex Cable is the Achille's Heel of these cards. When I press the Female Socket onto the HPV Card's edge connector it gives me the heebie-jeebies I get from handling KlugeWare.
When the Sonnet PassThru Adapter might fail, the cable is swapped out.
When the integrated NewerTech Cable fails, looks like it can take the whole card down.
Very bad design, IMHO.
Back then, I never bought a Mac for production use if it didn't have available accelerators with the processor being upgraded to the next level. I couldn't afford cutting edge Macs or upgrading to the next generation each time. The accelerators let me upgrade half as often. The SE came with the Radius16/CoPro, I bought the used IIx/PanaPro_19 with the intention of Rocketizing it ASAP and the refurb 6360 for eventual Sonnetization.
Back on topic:
I'm thrilled with the batch of these Cards, strange mix of functionality to report:
(1) 220MHz/512k - Video PassThru Functional
(3) 238.3MHz/1MB - Video PassThru Functional
(1) 238.3MHz/512k - Accelerator only works great - Video PassThru implemented causes click-clunk in PSU/No Powerup
(1) 238.3MHz/1MBk - Accelerator only works great - Video PassThru implemented causes click-clunk in PSU/No Powerup
(1) DOA - the 81/110 Tries to boot w/no startup chimes - hits HDD and eventually stops -
- - - gives shutdown alert on hitting Power on KBD button, but hangs when enter/return is pressed
I tested one of the good boards with the Sonnet Adapter Cable and it still worked fine over the extended length. It's a much better design w/components on a PCB 1/3 of the way to the Female connector, which is mounted on a PCB/Flex Cable Adapter. The male connector has strain relieving "mounting ears" on the PCB. I'll bet the integrated design of the Newertech cabling with the Female Connector soldered directly onto the Flex Cable is the Achille's Heel of these cards. When I press the Female Socket onto the HPV Card's edge connector it gives me the heebie-jeebies I get from handling KlugeWare.
When the Sonnet PassThru Adapter might fail, the cable is swapped out.
When the integrated NewerTech Cable fails, looks like it can take the whole card down.
Very bad design, IMHO.
Two thoughts.
1) If you're using the G3 upgrade without a video card installed, you may need to install a PDS terminator in the video card socket. Apple made dire warnings about operating the NuBus PMs without anything in the PDS slot.
2) When I assembled a PM8100/110 with a NewerTech G3 and PDS passthrough, the HPV card gave me a lot of trouble if it had VRAM SIMMs installed. Try the video card without any VRAM SIMMs, if you have not already. I suspect that there's just not enough power available in that slot for the G3 upgrade, and the HPV card and the additional VRAM.
1) If you're using the G3 upgrade without a video card installed, you may need to install a PDS terminator in the video card socket. Apple made dire warnings about operating the NuBus PMs without anything in the PDS slot.
2) When I assembled a PM8100/110 with a NewerTech G3 and PDS passthrough, the HPV card gave me a lot of trouble if it had VRAM SIMMs installed. Try the video card without any VRAM SIMMs, if you have not already. I suspect that there's just not enough power available in that slot for the G3 upgrade, and the HPV card and the additional VRAM.
My NIB from Sonnet 400MHz/1MB didn't come with a terminator, that may be a problem with the Newertech, but I doubt it. Power wasn't an issue either, Crescendo was almost twice as fast and available up to 1GHZ, IIRC.
Sonnet may have wised up and built termination into their boards, after all the grief Newertech encountered. It still sounds like a valid troubleshooting experiment ... if you can find the said PDS terminator, that is.
Fastest Sonnet Crescendo Nubus was 500MHz - their 1GHz upgrades were for PCI machines and later.
And a small correction to my earlier blatherings above, it was the Crescendo that I recalled having the socketed passthrough, and not any of the Newertech ones.
Fastest Sonnet Crescendo Nubus was 500MHz - their 1GHz upgrades were for PCI machines and later.
And a small correction to my earlier blatherings above, it was the Crescendo that I recalled having the socketed passthrough, and not any of the Newertech ones.
Yep, I've got the terminator that came installed in PDS of the 81/110. I'll give it a try in the DOA board. I'll also try the VRAM removal gambit along with the VidCap board in the two with non-functional passthru cables.