Thread
Can't Install Linux on Quicksilver G4
Hi,
While the SE/30 boards are being squared away (http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17775), I thought I'd see if I can get some help with another problem.
The problem is a Quicksilver G4 I have that refuses to boot any variant of Linux. At the same time, it seems to run Mac OS X (which is Unix based) perfectly, which further perplexes me.
I have tried the following to no avail:
-Zapping the PRAM
-Resetting NVRAM/Open Firmware
-Resetting the Power Management Unit (after doing this a few times, Linux gets a little farther along, but it still freezes before doing anything useful)
-Different hard drives
-Booting from different DVD drives (including Firewire devices)
-Using different cables
-Replacing the memory
-Replacing the logic board
The only things I haven't replaced are the case, power supply, and processor card. Obviously the case wouldn't cause this problem, so that leaves me with only two possible culprits: the power supply and the processor card.
As stated above, it seems to work just fine in Mac OS X (it's a little problematic at times in Mac OS 9, but resetting the PMU seems to fix it for awhile).
Also, the Apple Hardware Diagnostic doesn't report any hardware problems.
I'd like to see if it can be fixed without replacing either the power supply or the processor card. I would prefer to repair the existing power supply if it turns out to be the problem (it has a 50-50 chance at this point).
Thank you!
c
While the SE/30 boards are being squared away (http://68kmla.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17775), I thought I'd see if I can get some help with another problem.
The problem is a Quicksilver G4 I have that refuses to boot any variant of Linux. At the same time, it seems to run Mac OS X (which is Unix based) perfectly, which further perplexes me.
I have tried the following to no avail:
-Zapping the PRAM
-Resetting NVRAM/Open Firmware
-Resetting the Power Management Unit (after doing this a few times, Linux gets a little farther along, but it still freezes before doing anything useful)
-Different hard drives
-Booting from different DVD drives (including Firewire devices)
-Using different cables
-Replacing the memory
-Replacing the logic board
The only things I haven't replaced are the case, power supply, and processor card. Obviously the case wouldn't cause this problem, so that leaves me with only two possible culprits: the power supply and the processor card.
As stated above, it seems to work just fine in Mac OS X (it's a little problematic at times in Mac OS 9, but resetting the PMU seems to fix it for awhile).
Also, the Apple Hardware Diagnostic doesn't report any hardware problems.
I'd like to see if it can be fixed without replacing either the power supply or the processor card. I would prefer to repair the existing power supply if it turns out to be the problem (it has a 50-50 chance at this point).
Thank you!
c
If X works fine then your hardware is [likely] fine.
What Distro are your trying and how are you burning the disk?
What Distro are your trying and how are you burning the disk?
Also, how are you booting the install CD? I seem to have the best luck on the install CDs when booting from OF with something like "boot cd,:\\yaboot". HOlding down opt and clicking on Tux has never worked well for me.
HI,
It doesn't matter how I do it; the install CD will NOT boot past a certain point.
It doesn't matter how I select the CD, either.
If it gets far enough, it'll freeze at an error message stating something like "cannot activate rtc".
I've tried various versions of Ubuntu and Fedora, and they all do the same thing.
I also tried a bunch of different methods for burning the disks. All acted the same way.
I am stumped!
c
It doesn't matter how I do it; the install CD will NOT boot past a certain point.
It doesn't matter how I select the CD, either.
If it gets far enough, it'll freeze at an error message stating something like "cannot activate rtc".
I've tried various versions of Ubuntu and Fedora, and they all do the same thing.
I also tried a bunch of different methods for burning the disks. All acted the same way.
I am stumped!
c
I've been successfully able to use Ubuntu 6.06, Finnix, Frugalware, and Slackintosh 11 on my Sawtooth G4. It's been a little while since I've messed with Linux, or Linux on PPC.
The only thing I can think of that would cause problems is that the Linux kernel is missing drivers for specific hardware your Quicksilver uses.
One of the few things I mastered (if not only,) when trying to make my PowerPup Linux OS was creating the bootable ISO. To boot up my disc all I had to do was hold c, and it went right to Yaboot.
Actually, that's pretty much the way I've booted any Linux disc... Guess it's just the particular Macs I have.
The only thing I can think of that would cause problems is that the Linux kernel is missing drivers for specific hardware your Quicksilver uses.
One of the few things I mastered (if not only,) when trying to make my PowerPup Linux OS was creating the bootable ISO. To boot up my disc all I had to do was hold c, and it went right to Yaboot.
Actually, that's pretty much the way I've booted any Linux disc... Guess it's just the particular Macs I have.
Hi, PowerPup,
I doubt the drivers (or a lack thereof) are at fault; By chance, I got another Quicksilver recently, and it runs Linux (the installation program, anyway) just fine. That, to me, proves that there ARE drivers for this machine, and that there is a slight fault somewhere that prevents Linux from booting up. The problem is, I don't know what that fault would be.
The CDs seem to be fine (I tried them on the other Quicksilver, where they booted successfully), so I don't think that is a problem.
Starting by either holding 'c' on the keyboard or holding down Option and selecting its button comes up with the same result.
If it were a hardware problem, what kind of problem would cause Linux to fail, yet allow Mac OS 9/Mac OS X to work perfectly?
c
I doubt the drivers (or a lack thereof) are at fault; By chance, I got another Quicksilver recently, and it runs Linux (the installation program, anyway) just fine. That, to me, proves that there ARE drivers for this machine, and that there is a slight fault somewhere that prevents Linux from booting up. The problem is, I don't know what that fault would be.
The CDs seem to be fine (I tried them on the other Quicksilver, where they booted successfully), so I don't think that is a problem.
Starting by either holding 'c' on the keyboard or holding down Option and selecting its button comes up with the same result.
If it were a hardware problem, what kind of problem would cause Linux to fail, yet allow Mac OS 9/Mac OS X to work perfectly?
c
Well...
Just posting to keep the topic alive!
c
Just posting to keep the topic alive!
c
???
I forgot to add that my Quicksilver does the same thing..Although I didn't replace any parts to see why. It works normal in X. Just tired of making coasters and gave up.
Oh, OK!
Well, I will swap the power supply from the other Quicksilver and see what happens. If there's no change, I guess I'll just forget about it.
c
Well, I will swap the power supply from the other Quicksilver and see what happens. If there's no change, I guess I'll just forget about it.
c
Minor Update:
I took the power supply from the Quicksilver which seemed to work with Linux, and put it in the "Linux-phobic" machine, which is still "Linux-phobic"!
The P/S didn't change anything, so it must be the processor card, the only part not yet replaced!
Oh, well... it's a good excuse to upgrade to something faster than 867 MHz!
c
I took the power supply from the Quicksilver which seemed to work with Linux, and put it in the "Linux-phobic" machine, which is still "Linux-phobic"!
The P/S didn't change anything, so it must be the processor card, the only part not yet replaced!
Oh, well... it's a good excuse to upgrade to something faster than 867 MHz!
c
That sounds like there's a bad kernel version on these install CDs if it can't activate the RTC. It's also not good that it doesn't skip the issue and simply decide to not care.
Have you tried booting a BSD (other than OS X) to see what the dmesg says about your RTC?
Have you tried booting a BSD (other than OS X) to see what the dmesg says about your RTC?
No.
I guess I could try some sort of BSD-type distribution and see what happens. The thing is, Linux won't progress far enough in the boot process to record anything in a log. It barely has enough time to put it up on the screen (most of the time it freezes with a blank screen), so dmesg probably won't help. Does Mac OS X have something similar that could yield some useful information? Maybe I will have better luck with BSD?
As I said, Mac OS X seems to work, while Linux doesn't. I seriously doubt it's a bad Linux kernel, since the SAME disk (and kernel) works fine on other machines (tested on another Quicksilver and a PowerBook G3 Pismo). I suspect a possible hardware problem with the RTC, but I'm not sure, hence this thread.
I don't understand.
In the meantime, Ubuntu (the Linux I've been trying to use) works rather well (albeit quite slowly) on the 500 MHz Pismo. It would only be faster and better on the Quicksilver, if only the cruddy thing would just boot it!!!
c
Basically, I'm saying that the GNU/Linux kernel is bad if it comes across something it doesn't handle gracefully. If, for instance, the battery were completely dead and the RTC said it was 1927, most OSes should and would gracefully choose to do something different - BSD, for instance, uses the time of the last update of the filesystem. This is why several GNU/Linux distros, I'm guessing, boot on other machines but not on this specific machine. If you booted a NetBSD disk which said something like this, then that would explain what's going on:
Code:
WARNING: TOY clock not marked valid
WARNING: preposterous TOD clock time
WARNING: using filesystem time
WARNING: CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!
I tried booting NetBSD, which seems more or less successful, so long as I don't try installing to a hard drive (or anything else beyond navigating directories and running dmesg), in which case it freezes hard (no kernel panic or anything).
Nothing that I understand seems to be wrong in dmesg except the last two lines:
That warning appears regardless of the date/time settings in Mac OS X.
And why would it be off by 42 days?
By the way, it successfully initialized the RTC.
I'm stumped!
c
EDIT: While was typing this post, I noticed that it had frozen solid while idling.
Nothing that I understand seems to be wrong in dmesg except the last two lines:
Code:
WARNING: clock gained 42 days
WARNING: CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!And why would it be off by 42 days?
By the way, it successfully initialized the RTC.
I'm stumped!
c
EDIT: While was typing this post, I noticed that it had frozen solid while idling.
Sounds to me like a memory issue. Have you tried swapping RAM with the other QS?
Last resort would be swapping CPU cards to rule out a cache issue.
Last resort would be swapping CPU cards to rule out a cache issue.
Yes, I've swapped the RAM.
I guess I'll try swapping the CPU. I didn't think it would be a cache problem.
I had a Pismo CPU card with bad cache and it had similar symptoms, so I suppose it's possible...
Thank you!
c
I guess I'll try swapping the CPU. I didn't think it would be a cache problem.
I had a Pismo CPU card with bad cache and it had similar symptoms, so I suppose it's possible...
Thank you!
c
Partial Success-
I swapped the CPU, and I got it to boot Linux! So it must be a cache problem.
However, it freezes when I try to do anything graphical (such as X.org, etc.) and the installer DVD reverts to text mode. Loading anything graphical seems to hard freeze the machine Could that be related to the video card I have installed? It is the stock card from a Quicksilver 2001 (this machine was upgraded to a Quicksilver 2002 via a logic board replacement when the old one died; all other non-logic board related specifications are the same, including the video card and CPU card).
I had at one point an ATI Radeon 9000 card installed (for QE and CI support under Leopard), but it died, so I reverted to the old one (I think Nvidia Geforce 2mx or Geforce 3mx).
Any suggestions?
I've made a little progress, anyway...
c
I swapped the CPU, and I got it to boot Linux! So it must be a cache problem.
However, it freezes when I try to do anything graphical (such as X.org, etc.) and the installer DVD reverts to text mode. Loading anything graphical seems to hard freeze the machine Could that be related to the video card I have installed? It is the stock card from a Quicksilver 2001 (this machine was upgraded to a Quicksilver 2002 via a logic board replacement when the old one died; all other non-logic board related specifications are the same, including the video card and CPU card).
I had at one point an ATI Radeon 9000 card installed (for QE and CI support under Leopard), but it died, so I reverted to the old one (I think Nvidia Geforce 2mx or Geforce 3mx).
Any suggestions?
I've made a little progress, anyway...
c
I don't have any suggestions but just wanted to chime in that bad cache on the QS machines isn't too uncommon. I've had two different processor cards with the same problem.
Update:
I think I got it (almost). Apparently the video card (Nvidia Geforce 2 MX) is supported, yet it doesn't work right (it shows a picture with highly distorted colors). However, the machine seems otherwise operational, or at least it did until I decided to mess with xorg.conf. Now it doesn't want to go to graphical mode. It's usable from the command line, but I want X.org to run so it'll be graphical.
Anyway, aside from the video issues, it would seem that I've ironed out all the major hardware bugs (CPU, RAM, etc.), so now I just have to learn my way around the software.
733 MHz is kind of slow, however, so I'll probably upgrade later on. But at least it's working (mostly)!
Thank you!
c
I think I got it (almost). Apparently the video card (Nvidia Geforce 2 MX) is supported, yet it doesn't work right (it shows a picture with highly distorted colors). However, the machine seems otherwise operational, or at least it did until I decided to mess with xorg.conf. Now it doesn't want to go to graphical mode. It's usable from the command line, but I want X.org to run so it'll be graphical.
Anyway, aside from the video issues, it would seem that I've ironed out all the major hardware bugs (CPU, RAM, etc.), so now I just have to learn my way around the software.
733 MHz is kind of slow, however, so I'll probably upgrade later on. But at least it's working (mostly)!
Thank you!
c
I have had trouble with Xorg generating a working config with these older card. The best luck I've had with my Sawtooth's original ATI card was the Ubuntu 6.06 PPC Live CD. Whatever version of Xorg it used seemed to do a better job of making working configs. Since you've got your machine booting Linux now maybe would can give the Live CD a shot. 
PowerPup:
Live CDs don't work (at least not the newer versions), but they will work in text mode as install CDs (well, the regular Ubuntu CD won't work, but the alternate CD does).
It's probably a video card issue, as I tried both Ubuntu 10.10 and Fedora 12 on a PowerBook Pismo, and after a little bit of fighting there, it works OK (there is no 3D acceleration for ATI Rage 128, which is making it rather slow).
This seems to be a common problem with Xorg not detecting older hardware properly. I guess the latest versions are optimized for more modern hardware, therefore dropping/deprecating support for older H/W out of necessity.
Well, it makes for a good learning experience, anyway!
I can see if an older version of Ubuntu would work (I hate to run such an old version, as the point of all this is to get the machine running a more up to date OS than Apple will allow).
Such is life...
c
Live CDs don't work (at least not the newer versions), but they will work in text mode as install CDs (well, the regular Ubuntu CD won't work, but the alternate CD does).
It's probably a video card issue, as I tried both Ubuntu 10.10 and Fedora 12 on a PowerBook Pismo, and after a little bit of fighting there, it works OK (there is no 3D acceleration for ATI Rage 128, which is making it rather slow).
This seems to be a common problem with Xorg not detecting older hardware properly. I guess the latest versions are optimized for more modern hardware, therefore dropping/deprecating support for older H/W out of necessity.
Well, it makes for a good learning experience, anyway!
I can see if an older version of Ubuntu would work (I hate to run such an old version, as the point of all this is to get the machine running a more up to date OS than Apple will allow).
Such is life...
c
Well what I did for my Sawtooth was boot the Live CD, copy the config file it generated in RAM onto a flash drive. Then copied it in place on my Frugalware 1.3 partition. The Frugalware bootscreen looked like it was in 16 colors but other than that the desktop worked fine. (A little slow, because of the old ATI Rage Pro/whatever is in it.)
It tends to be frustrating sometimes, Xorg isn't necessarily dropping/depreciating hardware support, but their config generator isn't working properly for older cards. As I mentioned, all I had to do was swap config files and everything was fine. Didn't have to go install an older version of Xorg or anything.
Did a little researching on the Ubuntu forums:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1488649#6
Do let us know if you try this route and your results. (Although I just looked at the next page, and someone mentioned they didn't have the option to upgrade. :?: )
Edit: Here's an interesting topic: Ubuntu 11.04 and 10.04 on iLamp iMac freezes on boot.
Maybe one of these config files will help you.
It tends to be frustrating sometimes, Xorg isn't necessarily dropping/depreciating hardware support, but their config generator isn't working properly for older cards. As I mentioned, all I had to do was swap config files and everything was fine. Didn't have to go install an older version of Xorg or anything.
Did a little researching on the Ubuntu forums:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1488649#6
This is for Ubuntu 10.04, post #9 in the topic mentions you can install Ubuntu using the 8.04 alternate CD, then upgrade to 10.04 using the update manager.
Do let us know if you try this route and your results. (Although I just looked at the next page, and someone mentioned they didn't have the option to upgrade. :?: )Edit: Here's an interesting topic: Ubuntu 11.04 and 10.04 on iLamp iMac freezes on boot.
Maybe one of these config files will help you.
Thank you! I took a peek, and they actually have a file that pretty closely matches the setup I have (with a 17" Studio display). I will give that a try in the next day or two. It sure beats fiddling with all the various parameters manually!
I think there must be some sort of bug in the configurator thing that was introduced in current versions of Xorg. Being open source, it should in theory be possible for anyone with the right knowledge to fix it. Any volunteers?
I appreciate your research. I've been doing some myself, and found out about Nouveau, a newer reverse engineered nvidia driver for Linux (a replacement for the older nv driver). Maybe you know of it?
I did that with the Pismo, which for some reason would only display at 800x600 starting at the upper left corner of the screen with an ugly bar of distorted/random stuff, and immediately below that a partial repeat of the image (like an old television whose vertical hold is off a bit). I found an xorg.conf file for it, and I was able to get 1024x768, but the problem still remains if I decide to go back to 800x600 (and, of course, it's slower than I feel it should be).
I will try to download a copy of Ubuntu 8.xx and see if that works any better. I will also see if an upgrade to 10.xx/11.xx is possible (at minimum I will copy the xorg.conf file and put it in a fresh 10.xx/11.xx installation).
Thank you again!
c
Another Update:
I can confirm that Fedora Core 5 works flawlessly, so it is not a hardware problem. Yay!!
I will try next to see if upgrading FC 5 to F12 or newer will preserve this "flawlessness".
I actually like FC5, except it's so old that it defeats the purpose of having it (Mac OS X Leopard is actually newer!).
c
I can confirm that Fedora Core 5 works flawlessly, so it is not a hardware problem. Yay!!
I will try next to see if upgrading FC 5 to F12 or newer will preserve this "flawlessness".
I actually like FC5, except it's so old that it defeats the purpose of having it (Mac OS X Leopard is actually newer!).
c
I decided to stick with Fedora Core 5 (old as it is) for now, until I get a new video card (I have determined that there is some really weird incompatibility between this Quicksilver's standard video (Nvidia GeForce 2MX) and recent versions of X11).
I wish to thank those who have helped me out on this.
Now on to another project...
c
I wish to thank those who have helped me out on this.
Now on to another project...
c