Thread
Mac Plus
So I've had the loft clearout.
Brought the Mac Plus down for a look.
VERY yellowed. I had thought that it was the sunlight that had done it, but apparently not.
Brought it down, fired it up.
A happy bong. No picture. The picture had been flickering on and off before it went into the loft (>10 years ago!) so I was expecting this.
Tapping the side and the top I briefly got the '?' floppy icon.
This looks right, as it has no HDD.
Is the monitor likely a bad connection that can be soldered?
How long does it need to remain off to discharge. It could have been discharged when it was in the loft for years, but I wanted to see if it still booted (which it did, and sound was perfect).
Interestingly the CMOS battery looks in good condition (an Energiser, like an AA but with no top notch) but I should really change it.
It has a full length "telephone cord" keyboard which includes a keypad, but no mouse. How easy are mice to get hold of (Im in UK/Ireland)?
Pictures to follow.
(Other items found are a BBC Master Compact micro and several broken 486/Pentium laptops, which are on ebay now.)
Brought the Mac Plus down for a look.
VERY yellowed. I had thought that it was the sunlight that had done it, but apparently not.
Brought it down, fired it up.
A happy bong. No picture. The picture had been flickering on and off before it went into the loft (>10 years ago!) so I was expecting this.
Tapping the side and the top I briefly got the '?' floppy icon.
This looks right, as it has no HDD.
Is the monitor likely a bad connection that can be soldered?
How long does it need to remain off to discharge. It could have been discharged when it was in the loft for years, but I wanted to see if it still booted (which it did, and sound was perfect).
Interestingly the CMOS battery looks in good condition (an Energiser, like an AA but with no top notch) but I should really change it.
It has a full length "telephone cord" keyboard which includes a keypad, but no mouse. How easy are mice to get hold of (Im in UK/Ireland)?
Pictures to follow.
(Other items found are a BBC Master Compact micro and several broken 486/Pentium laptops, which are on ebay now.)
It sounds like a cold solder joint on the 4(?) pin connector on the analog board. (This is from memory.) The flashing is a typical failure.
JR
JR
I'll need to get in and test my soldering skills!
As promised, pics!
With it's younger (and less yellow) brother:
As promised, pics!
With it's younger (and less yellow) brother:
Where is a good place to find a mac plus mouse?
eBay has no such items.
Are other mice compatible? (ie. from other Macs / Amigas etc? Obviously not serial, ps2, ADB).
Update: Found this http://www.megadon.co.uk/wb/whiteboardshow.pl/syrinx/wbfile=Mac%20Plus%20Mouse.wb/page=default.html
Not overly confident with electronics, so will continue looking.
eBay has no such items.
Are other mice compatible? (ie. from other Macs / Amigas etc? Obviously not serial, ps2, ADB).
Update: Found this http://www.megadon.co.uk/wb/whiteboardshow.pl/syrinx/wbfile=Mac%20Plus%20Mouse.wb/page=default.html
Not overly confident with electronics, so will continue looking.
eBay USA has them. I searched "Apple M0100":http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=apple+m0100&_sacat=See-All-Categories.
There's probably more listed under different names. That search turned up listings costing less than a new mouse from The Apple Store at least... It's small so international shipping probably wouldn't be horrible.
You could also try wanted ad in The Trading Post here. I wish I had one to spare.
Good luck!
There's probably more listed under different names. That search turned up listings costing less than a new mouse from The Apple Store at least... It's small so international shipping probably wouldn't be horrible.
You could also try wanted ad in The Trading Post here. I wish I had one to spare.
Good luck!
This is extremely common and is usually a bad solder joint at pin 1 on the analog board (vertical board on the left) connector for the cable which connects the logic board to the analog board. Pin 1 is the pin all by itself with a blank position between it and the rest of the pins on the connector.
Remove the old solder with a soldering pencil and desoldering braid or a suction tool, and apply fresh new solder.
Thanks TheIanMan85, I'll broaden my scope for looking, thanks for the part number, should help in searches too! (Though some searches bring up butchered M0100s which is slightly annoying!)
Thanks trag, I'll get it open and have a look.
Found this on the net. Might be of some use to someone:
http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/legacy/macintosh_plus.pdf
http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/legacy/macintosh_plus.pdf
Another thing I recall being mentioned hereabouts (possibly from trag?) is that the Plus (& earlier) mouse port take the signals direct from the encoders on the mouse ball: ie, that intead of a chip inside the mouse, the decoding is done inside the Mac. Hence, you can take a newer ball mouse (PS/2, serial, ADB), tap those lines, and feed them into a Plus.
This is just off the top of my head, so your own research is advised.
This is just off the top of my head, so your own research is advised.
Yea I read that, the mouse is basically dumb and all of the logic is within the system itself.
I'll try and tackle the monitor bad connection first. Just need to get a good soldering iron and take some brave pills before working around a CRT 8-o
I'm half tempted to use it as a mini ITX project case (instead of saving up for a C64x), but I know the plus is rarer than the Classic, and that it should basically work except for the screen and obtaining a mouse.
I'll try and tackle the monitor bad connection first. Just need to get a good soldering iron and take some brave pills before working around a CRT 8-o
I'm half tempted to use it as a mini ITX project case (instead of saving up for a C64x), but I know the plus is rarer than the Classic, and that it should basically work except for the screen and obtaining a mouse.
Why does it seem like every Mac Plus I see has had an Apple sticker stuck to the side of it at some point in it's life? :lol:
At least this thing is a Mac 
I've seen the iPod apple stickers on anything from cars to PC desktops and laptops.
Bought a soldering iron today (instead of always lending one), got the bottom 2 screws out and the battery screw, but the top 2 screws are difficult because they are very recessed.
Screwdriver bit extensions just spin or get stuck.
Is a long T15 allen key the tool for this? I have a regular one but it wont give me room to turn it.
I've seen the iPod apple stickers on anything from cars to PC desktops and laptops.
Bought a soldering iron today (instead of always lending one), got the bottom 2 screws out and the battery screw, but the top 2 screws are difficult because they are very recessed.
Screwdriver bit extensions just spin or get stuck.
Is a long T15 allen key the tool for this? I have a regular one but it wont give me room to turn it.
Yes a long T15 torx screwdriver is required to remove the top ones, you can do without.. but is not easy (believe me,done a week ago but the bezel was a mess anyway)
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0321772
i bought a (Precision Screwdriver Set) something like this,
it was $6.99 at microcetner, it had a telescoping shaft that comes out of the handle,
i use it all the time to get at those 2 hard to get to screws on the Macintosh!
i bought a (Precision Screwdriver Set) something like this,
it was $6.99 at microcetner, it had a telescoping shaft that comes out of the handle,
i use it all the time to get at those 2 hard to get to screws on the Macintosh!
Thanks bibilit and uniserver.
I went to the DIY store and Halfords (auto factors) but they had no such tools. Maplins (Ireland/UK store like Radioshack) had longer T15 screwdriver bits.
I bought a set of these and the T15 was long enough and narrow enough at the end to get at the top screws.
Got it open
Could not see any particularly bad solder except for one resistor that seemed to not be fully soldered.
Soldered it up, let it cool, put the back case back on, turned it on but the screen still wont show. Taps to the right of the case and sometimes a flicker will show, but still no video xx(
I went to the DIY store and Halfords (auto factors) but they had no such tools. Maplins (Ireland/UK store like Radioshack) had longer T15 screwdriver bits.
I bought a set of these and the T15 was long enough and narrow enough at the end to get at the top screws.
Got it open
Could not see any particularly bad solder except for one resistor that seemed to not be fully soldered.
Soldered it up, let it cool, put the back case back on, turned it on but the screen still wont show. Taps to the right of the case and sometimes a flicker will show, but still no video xx(
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://68kmla.org/files/classicmac2.pdf&sa=U&ei=XM2BT-GYHePC0QXanNDoCQ&ved=0CBIQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNF5-gsy_RYr5hYYD99-vLUir362Kw
have a look at this file, probably you will find a reply, yoke connector J1 is known to go bad, as well as capacitor C1.
have a look at this file, probably you will find a reply, yoke connector J1 is known to go bad, as well as capacitor C1.
Dynamite! Now I've got a couple of tricks to try on my Bong/No Video 128k/Plus analog board(s).
Thanks, comrades! :approve:
Thanks, comrades! :approve:
I would re-solder all of the harness connections on the analog board. I had a 128k & a 512k with the same symptom. I did this and I had 2 working systems. :beige:
Thanks all.
According to that PDF, C1 may be bulging at the top. However my C1 looks different, has a wire going from the top to the base, surrounded by hot glue. Maybe been replaced before? I'll take pictures tomorrow.
I'll also try resoldering j1 tomorrow. I've never desoldered anything but I have a desolder pump. I assume I heat the old solder, use the pump to lift, then plant down fresh solder?
thanks!
According to that PDF, C1 may be bulging at the top. However my C1 looks different, has a wire going from the top to the base, surrounded by hot glue. Maybe been replaced before? I'll take pictures tomorrow.
I'll also try resoldering j1 tomorrow. I've never desoldered anything but I have a desolder pump. I assume I heat the old solder, use the pump to lift, then plant down fresh solder?
thanks!
You probably won't need to desolder really, just apply the iron and apply new solder at the same time, new and old will melt producing a shiny result.
You can also remove the old solder if required, but this can be tricky.
Don't forget to leave the two halves of the connector on, to avoid distortion.
You can also remove the old solder if required, but this can be tricky.
Don't forget to leave the two halves of the connector on, to avoid distortion.
I resoldered J1.
C1 looks like this:
Turned it on, same thing.
What happens is it makes the happy ding at startup, if I tap the side I can see the screen flicker trying to come on (and can often see the floppy ? icon), however when I tap it like this it makes a noise like a "dzzzt" or a cat-bell sounding noise.
Then eventually it gives up doing this, and tapping it further causes the machine to reboot itself (evident from the startup sound)
C1 looks like this:
Turned it on, same thing.
What happens is it makes the happy ding at startup, if I tap the side I can see the screen flicker trying to come on (and can often see the floppy ? icon), however when I tap it like this it makes a noise like a "dzzzt" or a cat-bell sounding noise.
Then eventually it gives up doing this, and tapping it further causes the machine to reboot itself (evident from the startup sound)
OK so I went in and soldered the J4 connections, as per trag, Brooklyn and others, and the connector from the lower board.
Then powered it up.
Initially nothing, but no flickers and weird noises when tapping either.
Then I turned the brightness dial.....
Success 8-o :b&w:
Note that the black line is the refresh of the monitor, it is clear and perfect.
The floppy icon is a flashing question mark.
Next steps:
- Find a mouse
- Find some 400k media
- Find a SCSI zip drive
Thanks everyone! The Mac Plus has a new lease of life!
Then powered it up.
Initially nothing, but no flickers and weird noises when tapping either.
Then I turned the brightness dial.....
Success 8-o :b&w:
Note that the black line is the refresh of the monitor, it is clear and perfect.
The floppy icon is a flashing question mark.
Next steps:
- Find a mouse
- Find some 400k media
- Find a SCSI zip drive
Thanks everyone! The Mac Plus has a new lease of life!
Congratulations !! :beige:
Nice to see the Plus working again...was an easy fix after all.
Nice to see the Plus working again...was an easy fix after all.
Thanks bibilit for your help.
Great to get it up and running, and after all these years, that's all that was wrong!
Great to get it up and running, and after all these years, that's all that was wrong!
Excellent news comrade! Another Mac saved from the landfill
Thanks Bunsen!
At the very least, a Mac Plus saved from becoming a MiniITX project!
I obtained it years ago from a car boot sale, a guy had a table full of them (would've been a real conquest!). This was around the time of the late 90s when schools, businesses etc. were replacing their Mac fleets with shiny new Win95/98 PCs. Not sure if they all had issues like the display on this. I didn't even think to ask about a mouse as I assumed I could pick an ADB one up easily....
I didn't know a lot about compact macs other than I had used Classics/SEs (and LCs) at school. The display didn't work, it had no mouse, and my 1.44mb mac disc wasn't compatible. It sat for a while and ended up in the attic around 2001 when I left for university. It stayed there until the other week.
(I also had a BBC Master Compact system up there. Didn't really have much interest in this, so recently sold it to an Acorn/BBC collector as spares/repair. He fixed it by scraping out the dead spider from the motherboard. A literal bug!)
I've ordered some 400k/800k software and blank discs, and am on the lookout for a mouse.
Then, I intend to find and hook up a SCSI zip drive as an external drive.
At the very least, a Mac Plus saved from becoming a MiniITX project!
I obtained it years ago from a car boot sale, a guy had a table full of them (would've been a real conquest!). This was around the time of the late 90s when schools, businesses etc. were replacing their Mac fleets with shiny new Win95/98 PCs. Not sure if they all had issues like the display on this. I didn't even think to ask about a mouse as I assumed I could pick an ADB one up easily....
I didn't know a lot about compact macs other than I had used Classics/SEs (and LCs) at school. The display didn't work, it had no mouse, and my 1.44mb mac disc wasn't compatible. It sat for a while and ended up in the attic around 2001 when I left for university. It stayed there until the other week.
(I also had a BBC Master Compact system up there. Didn't really have much interest in this, so recently sold it to an Acorn/BBC collector as spares/repair. He fixed it by scraping out the dead spider from the motherboard. A literal bug!)
I've ordered some 400k/800k software and blank discs, and am on the lookout for a mouse.
Then, I intend to find and hook up a SCSI zip drive as an external drive.
My recently purchased eBay Mac Plus had exactly the same problem. Turn on the Mac and blank screen until you give it a few gentle taps to get the display working. It would jitter especially when the floppy drive was in operation and a few taps were required to get the screen back. After 10 minutes it would be fine.
When I came across Sirwiggum's success, I thought I should give it a go. I hadn't touched a soldering iron for god knows how long... Most probably 20 years so was quite nervous doing this fix.
I was a bit lazy at first and just heated the old solder on J4... This made the jitteriness on the screen worse! So, I went out to the shops and purchased some new solder and carefully refreshed the J1 and J4 connections. I became confident and with the soldering iron and made the connections neat and clean.
When I switched the Mac on, I was really chuffed to see a perfect display with no jitters - even with the floppy operating. I'm really proud that my Mac Plus is working 100%. Thanks everyone!!!
When I came across Sirwiggum's success, I thought I should give it a go. I hadn't touched a soldering iron for god knows how long... Most probably 20 years so was quite nervous doing this fix.
I was a bit lazy at first and just heated the old solder on J4... This made the jitteriness on the screen worse! So, I went out to the shops and purchased some new solder and carefully refreshed the J1 and J4 connections. I became confident and with the soldering iron and made the connections neat and clean.
When I switched the Mac on, I was really chuffed to see a perfect display with no jitters - even with the floppy operating. I'm really proud that my Mac Plus is working 100%. Thanks everyone!!!
well I got my Plus disks, including a system 6.0 disk.
However, I can't do a lot as I haven't sourced a mouse yet.
Question though - Do shortcut keys work?
As in, I've booted from floppy, I'm in the finder, I thought the down key would've given the recycle bin focus? And I thought enter would've opened the focused item (the floppy icon)?
Do these shortcuts not work in system 6, the plus keyboard, or do you reckon my keyboard duff? (I haven't had a chance to test it).
Thanks!
However, I can't do a lot as I haven't sourced a mouse yet.
Question though - Do shortcut keys work?
As in, I've booted from floppy, I'm in the finder, I thought the down key would've given the recycle bin focus? And I thought enter would've opened the focused item (the floppy icon)?
Do these shortcuts not work in system 6, the plus keyboard, or do you reckon my keyboard duff? (I haven't had a chance to test it).
Thanks!
I used the mac classic 2 as reference, and was able to use CMD+O to open the disk, CMD+I to get info, CMD+E to eject the disk.
Still puzzled about the arrow keys though.
Still puzzled about the arrow keys though.