Thread
SD card reader with Mac Quadra
Hi all,
I have a SCSI multi-card reader that I originally bought to use with an Emax sampler. That never happened, so I thought I'd try to get it running with my Quadras:
I'm close to getting it working, but I can't get a disk to mount. This is what SCSI probe says:
As you can see, it can recognize all of the slots, and it can even flash the LED, but it can't mount the disk. When I try it says "Not a Macintosh Volume". I tried formatting the card as HFS using MacDrive on Windows, but the results are the same. The SD card reader is on LUN 3, is this the problem? Do I need a PCMCIA to SD converter to put the card on LUN 0?
Has anyone ever got this to work? BTW, I get exactly the same results using the Quadra 650 and the Quadra 700. Both run System 7.6.
Thanks,
Daniel
I have a SCSI multi-card reader that I originally bought to use with an Emax sampler. That never happened, so I thought I'd try to get it running with my Quadras:
I'm close to getting it working, but I can't get a disk to mount. This is what SCSI probe says:
As you can see, it can recognize all of the slots, and it can even flash the LED, but it can't mount the disk. When I try it says "Not a Macintosh Volume". I tried formatting the card as HFS using MacDrive on Windows, but the results are the same. The SD card reader is on LUN 3, is this the problem? Do I need a PCMCIA to SD converter to put the card on LUN 0?
Has anyone ever got this to work? BTW, I get exactly the same results using the Quadra 650 and the Quadra 700. Both run System 7.6.
Thanks,
Daniel
Welcome aboard, Daniel!
Very nice box! I'll be following this thread with great interest! :approve:
Dunno about your problems, they're over my pay grade in the Technical Support Unit, but I have a pair(?) of SCSI <-> PCMCIA Boxen that came with ISA controllers and drivers, but I've never actually tried to get them to work with a Mac. Maybe I should pull it/them out and give it a whirl.
< finds external box and it doesn't match up with connection kit or picture in head, looks briefly for internal drive for the kit, but comes up dry >
I've got a very cool, apparently Fast SCSI 2, SPYRUS brand MOSAIC external unit & manual.
What are the specs. for your multi-card reader?
Interesting screen shot, what's the spec. on that adaptec branded SCSIProbe rev. that you are using and where did you get it?
Very nice box! I'll be following this thread with great interest! :approve:
Dunno about your problems, they're over my pay grade in the Technical Support Unit, but I have a pair(?) of SCSI <-> PCMCIA Boxen that came with ISA controllers and drivers, but I've never actually tried to get them to work with a Mac. Maybe I should pull it/them out and give it a whirl.
< finds external box and it doesn't match up with connection kit or picture in head, looks briefly for internal drive for the kit, but comes up dry >
I've got a very cool, apparently Fast SCSI 2, SPYRUS brand MOSAIC external unit & manual.
The manual says this OEM drive may come with a driver, so it might not need one, but I have some last device in chain, termination and lack of cable a/o cable adapter issues to work out to get this.
What are the specs. for your multi-card reader?
Interesting screen shot, what's the spec. on that adaptec branded SCSIProbe rev. that you are using and where did you get it?
Hi,
This is the card reader, I think:
http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180
I didn't buy it from this company (and I didn't pay as much as they are selling it for
). I put it in the external SCSI case, previously there was a CD-RW in it.
THe SCSI Probe came from here:
http://myoldmac.net/software/download.php?file=6
It's been so long since I used SCSI Probe that I didn't realize there was anything unusual about it.
D.
This is the card reader, I think:
http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=180
I didn't buy it from this company (and I didn't pay as much as they are selling it for
). I put it in the external SCSI case, previously there was a CD-RW in it.THe SCSI Probe came from here:
http://myoldmac.net/software/download.php?file=6
It's been so long since I used SCSI Probe that I didn't realize there was anything unusual about it.
D.
Most likely, yes. Macs don't recognise LUNs from my reading.
If you have problems with PCMCIA-SD, consider trying PCMCIA-CF, which is a straight pin-pin conversion, with no intervening logic.
I am most interested to hear your results.
Hi,
SCSI Probe actually confirmed what the problem is: if you click on LUN 0 and try to mount it, it will give a bunch of errors and say "LUNs not supported".
I am going to try the PCMCIA adapter and see what happens. I'll let you know the results.
D.
SCSI Probe actually confirmed what the problem is: if you click on LUN 0 and try to mount it, it will give a bunch of errors and say "LUNs not supported".
I am going to try the PCMCIA adapter and see what happens. I'll let you know the results.
D.
Hi all,
Today I got a 2GB Compact Flash card with a PCMCIA adapter, and I was able to partition and mount it on the Quadra 650. I used FWB Hard Disk Toolkit, which was the only program I have that would successfully format it. Ordinary formatting didn't work; I had to partition it and create volumes with the FWB driver.
I was even able to boot from it. I can't really say it booted particularly quickly, but it did boot. My Quadra 650 now has 6GB of storage, which in 1993 was more or less like saying you've got 6 Petabytes nowadays.
I wonder if it'll work with the Mac Plus? The idea of a computer with 1MB of RAM and 2GB of storage is kind of weird.
BTW, it looks funny; the card sticks out about half a mile out of the front of the drive.
Today I got a 2GB Compact Flash card with a PCMCIA adapter, and I was able to partition and mount it on the Quadra 650. I used FWB Hard Disk Toolkit, which was the only program I have that would successfully format it. Ordinary formatting didn't work; I had to partition it and create volumes with the FWB driver.
I was even able to boot from it. I can't really say it booted particularly quickly, but it did boot. My Quadra 650 now has 6GB of storage, which in 1993 was more or less like saying you've got 6 Petabytes nowadays.
I wonder if it'll work with the Mac Plus? The idea of a computer with 1MB of RAM and 2GB of storage is kind of weird.
BTW, it looks funny; the card sticks out about half a mile out of the front of the drive.
Don't see why not, but of course, please let us know how it goes.
It that a 50-pin scsi drive or is it running on a 68-pin adapter?
It's 50 pin.
i would like to bet that it would work with your plus!
you should take a picture once you've booted it with your plus!
you should take a picture once you've booted it with your plus!
I didn't work with the Plus. Not one bit.
I tried it daisy chained to the Zip Drive (the Plus's usual boot disk), and on its own, booting from a diskette. It didn't recognize it or see it on the SCSI bus. When I tried to load the FWB driver, the machine froze.
It doesn't look like it was meant to be
Whatever, here are some pics of the Quadra with the reader:
Drive icons:
Drive windows:
I tried it daisy chained to the Zip Drive (the Plus's usual boot disk), and on its own, booting from a diskette. It didn't recognize it or see it on the SCSI bus. When I tried to load the FWB driver, the machine froze.
It doesn't look like it was meant to be
Whatever, here are some pics of the Quadra with the reader:
Drive icons:
Drive windows:
maybe you have to change the termination?
nice pictures!
nice pictures!
Thanks
The SCSI case has a terminator on it, and it works with the Quadra both on its own and daisy chained with the Zip Drive. The Plus didn't see it at all.
I don't know whether there are any weird SCSI rules that are special to the Plus. Meanwhile, the Plus has the Zip drive and the Quadra has the CF card, which seems like a good arrangement.
The SCSI case has a terminator on it, and it works with the Quadra both on its own and daisy chained with the Zip Drive. The Plus didn't see it at all.
I don't know whether there are any weird SCSI rules that are special to the Plus. Meanwhile, the Plus has the Zip drive and the Quadra has the CF card, which seems like a good arrangement.
Hi all,
My Quadra 700 seems to have a serious problem writing to the CF card, but seems to be able to read from it OK.
I haven't done any serious diagnostics yet. I'll try writing to a zip drive to see if the SCSI port is working OK. Hard disk reads and writes seem OK.
The Q650 was reading and writing OK from the SF drive the last time I checked.
Anyone ever seen anything similar?
My Quadra 700 seems to have a serious problem writing to the CF card, but seems to be able to read from it OK.
I haven't done any serious diagnostics yet. I'll try writing to a zip drive to see if the SCSI port is working OK. Hard disk reads and writes seem OK.
The Q650 was reading and writing OK from the SF drive the last time I checked.
Anyone ever seen anything similar?
The problem might be connected to the firmware version of the card reader device. A while ago I purchased a similar drive and it turned out to formerly be used in a self service photo printer machine. The firmware version in my device enables read operation, only. The Mac seems to be able to use only a storage device in the PCMCIA slot of the card reader, not in any other card slot. Also it is not cooperative regarding any attempt to boot a Mac from, so far. Some person was so kind to provide a firmware flashing software to me that should allow to make the drive read and write operational. However, this software needs to be used in a SCSI equipped Windows PC. Despite I found an old Pentium machine with SCSI host adapter in my collection, I did not find the time to flash the firmware, yet. If someone is interested in trying this firmware flashing tool p.m. me, please.
Hi,
I rather doubt that that is the problem; it does after all work well with the Quadra 650.
I just tested the Q700 with the zip drive and it seems to work perfectly. I was able to format a disk, install a system on it and boot the machine from it. I am rather relieved that the Q700 doesn't seem to be at fault here.
Any flakiness is this undoubtedly the fault of the drive. Could this simply be a function of the age of the machine? It doesn't work at all with the Mac Plus, it works partially with the Q700, and it works well with the Q650.
I rather doubt that that is the problem; it does after all work well with the Quadra 650.
I just tested the Q700 with the zip drive and it seems to work perfectly. I was able to format a disk, install a system on it and boot the machine from it. I am rather relieved that the Q700 doesn't seem to be at fault here.
Any flakiness is this undoubtedly the fault of the drive. Could this simply be a function of the age of the machine? It doesn't work at all with the Mac Plus, it works partially with the Q700, and it works well with the Q650.
Do you have a smaller CF card that you could try? I have had problems getting my SEs and SE/30 to recognize, let alone read or write to, certain large hard drives, especially external ones. For example, I have a 2GB Quantum drive in an external case that worked great with the SE/30. I connected it to one of my SEs to transfer some things, and it immediately asked me to format it...skipped that, ran Disk First Aid, works fine, BUT not on the SE/30 anymore. When I connect it to that, it will either not boot at all, or it will do a partial boot and the system folder has to be re-blessed to boot normally again.
Smaller, Apple ROM drives work fine, in contrast.
Smaller, Apple ROM drives work fine, in contrast.
Hi,
I have a couple of old small SD cards that I could use, if I had a PCMCIA adapter.
That actually sounds like a plausible explanation - we tend to forget nowadays how huge a 2GB drive would have seemed in 1991. This could easily explain the behavior of the Mac Plus and the Q700.
I have a couple of old small SD cards that I could use, if I had a PCMCIA adapter.
That actually sounds like a plausible explanation - we tend to forget nowadays how huge a 2GB drive would have seemed in 1991. This could easily explain the behavior of the Mac Plus and the Q700.
Consider to double check for proper termination of the SCSI bus. Most likely the card reader will have a jumper to enable or disable internal termination, usually near the SCSI ID jumper block. Make sure internal termination is off if you use it in an external enclosure and use an external termination resistance. Make sure it is on if the device is located at the end of a cable, like internally connected to the IDC connector at the end of the SCSI chain.
The Mac Plus doesn't supply term power. Is the drive supplying it?
Just in case someone stumbles across a SCM PCD-60B multi card reader: this device has been manufactured in different flavours, for read only purpose and for read and write access. I bought one that was pulled from a self service photo printer. It came with firmware version 01.13, which does not permit write operations. I checked the operation with an old PC running Win NT 2000. With this system any LUNs are independently accessible, with the following results:
LUN 0 PC Card
LUN 1 CF
LUN 2 SmartMedia
LUN 3 SD Card
LUN 4 Memory Stick
LUN 5 xD Media Picture Card
A firmware update tool is available to flash the devivce to firmware version 01.28. This firmware flash tool is a Windows application, what is another reason for me to keep that old Pentium III server with SCSI host adapter. It is most useful to run some tools like this firmware flasher. After a succesful update to firmware 01.28 the multi card reader is completely operational under Win NT 2000, accessing each LUN separately.
On a beige PowerMacintosh G3 DT running Mac OS 9 the results are inconsistent, yet. The G3 boots from a HFS+ formatted CF-Card in a PCMCIA-CF-adapter using LUN 0 of the card reader. SCSI Probe then detects and mounts media in other slots, also. Drive Setup does not support the card reader. HDT 2 seems not to like the device at all. So I would not call this a full success at the moment.
However, booting from the internal IDE drive (in this case an 8 GB flash disk on module, which contains a differently configured Mac OS 9) renders the card reader unusable. The system reports the media in the PC-Card slot as faulty and SCSI Probe tells simply "LUNs not supported". In consequence I suspect the operability of the card reader is not connected to the hardware or to the installed OS in general but to some particular software configuration I have not the time to figure out right now.
If someone knows which configuration is necessary and what to avoid in the System folder, please let us know.
P.S.: the SCM PCD-60B has a jumper to enable or disable termination power
LUN 0 PC Card
LUN 1 CF
LUN 2 SmartMedia
LUN 3 SD Card
LUN 4 Memory Stick
LUN 5 xD Media Picture Card
A firmware update tool is available to flash the devivce to firmware version 01.28. This firmware flash tool is a Windows application, what is another reason for me to keep that old Pentium III server with SCSI host adapter. It is most useful to run some tools like this firmware flasher. After a succesful update to firmware 01.28 the multi card reader is completely operational under Win NT 2000, accessing each LUN separately.
On a beige PowerMacintosh G3 DT running Mac OS 9 the results are inconsistent, yet. The G3 boots from a HFS+ formatted CF-Card in a PCMCIA-CF-adapter using LUN 0 of the card reader. SCSI Probe then detects and mounts media in other slots, also. Drive Setup does not support the card reader. HDT 2 seems not to like the device at all. So I would not call this a full success at the moment.
However, booting from the internal IDE drive (in this case an 8 GB flash disk on module, which contains a differently configured Mac OS 9) renders the card reader unusable. The system reports the media in the PC-Card slot as faulty and SCSI Probe tells simply "LUNs not supported". In consequence I suspect the operability of the card reader is not connected to the hardware or to the installed OS in general but to some particular software configuration I have not the time to figure out right now.
If someone knows which configuration is necessary and what to avoid in the System folder, please let us know.
P.S.: the SCM PCD-60B has a jumper to enable or disable termination power
Yes, I recently realised that this probably the problem.
I havent't bothered to do anything about it yet
Thanks,
Daniel
Yes, this has been covered before. Mac SCSI does not support LUNs, thus only the LUN 0 device will be recognised.
Exactly.
Yes, that's what I found in some Mac configurations on one hand. On the other hand with another Mac OS configuration on the very same machine SCSI Probe mounted three different volumes on three media using three different LUNs (using a PowerMac G3 with SCM PCD-60B). Both configurations used Mac OS 9. The use of multiple LUNs worked after booting off LUN 0 (PCMCIA), afterwards mounting a CF card and a SD card. At least it is possible to address multiple LUNs using a Mac.As I have to move in few days, my computers will now rest for a while in cardboxes. Hopefully I will be able to figure out how to get a Mac to take better advantage of the multi slot card reader, later in the year.
Huh - well that sounds like good news. Good luck with the move, and I'll be looking forward to any further experiments and documentation you get done later
Hi all,
I've been playing with mine a bit more and I can confirm my previous results:
- It works well and reliably in the Quadra 650 with System 7.6.1. It can read, write and boot. The only software I have that is able to format it is HDT 1.3PE. Everything else refuses. Only LUN 0 works. The others are recognized by SCSIProbe, but is "not a Macintosh volume". I have no machines that have SCSI that can run System 9, so this is as far as I can go.
- The Quadra 700 could read from the disk but when I tried to write to it, the result was flaky behavior and in the end a hosed disk. It could boot from it as long as the OS was installed by the Q650. I have no idea what the reason for this is. Everything else on the Q700 works. The only minor quirk is that the internal HD is on SCSI ID 3 rather than 0.
- It doesn't work at all with the Mac Plus, and we have established that this is due to lack of SCSI termination power in the Plus.
-
I've been playing with mine a bit more and I can confirm my previous results:
- It works well and reliably in the Quadra 650 with System 7.6.1. It can read, write and boot. The only software I have that is able to format it is HDT 1.3PE. Everything else refuses. Only LUN 0 works. The others are recognized by SCSIProbe, but is "not a Macintosh volume". I have no machines that have SCSI that can run System 9, so this is as far as I can go.
- The Quadra 700 could read from the disk but when I tried to write to it, the result was flaky behavior and in the end a hosed disk. It could boot from it as long as the OS was installed by the Q650. I have no idea what the reason for this is. Everything else on the Q700 works. The only minor quirk is that the internal HD is on SCSI ID 3 rather than 0.
- It doesn't work at all with the Mac Plus, and we have established that this is due to lack of SCSI termination power in the Plus.
-
On the page advertising a SCM PCD-50B SCSI Card reader there are some hints given regarding the SCSI bus termination.
That page tells: "APPLE USERS: Some old Apple II scsi cards do not support luns or termination power. you may need to hack a diode for term power. If your controller does NOT support LUNs, I recommend you to order the kit with the PCMCIA to CF adapter. It will allow you to address it as device 2 etc with no LUNs needed." (Note: probably it should read "device 0" or "LUN 0" ?)
Did someone already retrofit term power using a diode?
That page tells: "APPLE USERS: Some old Apple II scsi cards do not support luns or termination power. you may need to hack a diode for term power. If your controller does NOT support LUNs, I recommend you to order the kit with the PCMCIA to CF adapter. It will allow you to address it as device 2 etc with no LUNs needed." (Note: probably it should read "device 0" or "LUN 0" ?)
Did someone already retrofit term power using a diode?
The Term power mod was quite a common Apple II SCSI card mod. In this case the SCM PCD-50B can supply term power. I'm presently using one on a IIgs.