Re-conquest! Power Macintosh 5200CD

Nice, I was happy with the re-conquest of it's desktop cousin, a 6290CD.

I haven't tried it yet, but I've got a 6500 board to test, from all I've heard, it should be plug-n-play for your 5200 and my 6290. A CrescendoG3 RoadApple AIO with a 50MHz bus ought to be quite nice.

I think the 6500 is supposed to be the most plug-and-play because it can handle the voltages the right way. I saw that the 5400 board might need a power supply swap, but I read elsewhere that it would work as long as there wasn't a PCI card installed. I'm going to test the board I have sometime in the next few days when I'm home for a while... and take the Mac out of the trunk of my car.

From what I understood back in the Color Classic hacking days, the 6360-x400s needed 3.3V from the PS for PCI to work.

Dunno about the x500s.

So, here it is, booted up for the first time!

Running OS 8.1 and there was a copy of Free Guard installed that really limited use of the machine... I have no idea what in the world was going on there. That nonsense had to go.

On the plus, the x400 board (200Mhz) works perfectly! Dropped in 64MB of RAM and installed OS 8.5. I'd have gone to 8.6, but the CD-ROM drive is being incredibly finicky so I'll need to find another solution as it won't read most of my CD-Rs... or will read them once and crap out. The 1GB hard drive is a bit noisy so it might get replaced, but no rush on that.

Now, to find a cache module (the socket is totally empty :O ) and I should be set. The CRT is still nice, bright and crisp, so that was a pleasant surprise.

Keep an eye open for the 6500 board, the reason it's plug and play is that it rolls its own 3.3V for PCI onboard. Don't plug a PCI card in there, no sense hazarding card & controller. The 25% increase in system bus speed is a real kick in the pants as well.

I'll look through the stuff for Cache DIMMs, my cup all but runneth over with G3 cards for that slot.

That machine right there brings back memories. A ton of math blaster, and an encyclopedia that I cant recall, was all I did when I had access to the one classroom computer. I think I even stayed after for tutoring just to play.

Those Power Macintosh models had the coolest startup chime. In my opinon, they actually beat out the 6100 in epicness. Not TAM worthy, but close second. Full orchestra power!

I actually *did* drop a PCI card in it with a successful boot and no issue, but I wasn't about to stress test it. Morbid curiosity, I suppose! I was still tempted for the 6500 board, but I'm not that obsessed with keeping this machine going. A G3 card sounds fun though, I've never seen one of the cache slot upgrades.

Losing the fancy start-up chime was the downside of switching to the 5400 board, but the performance increase is totally worth it, IMHO. :lol: Road Apple no more!

(I feel like I should also fire off some crappy comment about the Spindler Plastics, a piece of something flew off and hit me in the face. Wretched Mac shrapnel! > )

i hear ya, I have (2) 5200's and (1) 5400, the plastics on the 5400 are brittle and yellow as hell.

but---- The 5400 case/tube does 800x600, the 5200 case/tube witch is white still, and not so brittle only does 640x480.

i could get nutts and put the Tube in the 5200 from the 5400, but ahhh… i just don't care that much about them…. :-(

The 5400 case/tube does 800x600, the 5200 case/tube witch is white still, and not so brittle only does 640x480.

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Are you sure about that, uni? My 5200 did 800x600 without any modification.

Yep, everymac.com confirms 800x600 and 832x624 in 8-bit (256 colors).

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/specs/mac_performa_5200cd.html

you might want to check that, i think that info is wrong.

Yes, i'm pretty sure about that.

Charles

Apple History confirms 800x600. http://apple-history.com/5200

I wasn’t interested in the power of the integrated Video Card that delivered amazing graphics to the 15inch Monitor with up to 832×624 resolution,

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Another confirmation. http://512pixels.net/2012/05/old-mac-of-the-month-the-performa-5200/

Apple confirms... http://support.apple.com/kb/SP294

I'm relatively certain that I used to run my Performa 5200 at 832x624 with WordPerfect 3.5 and the TV tuner card. It was kind of cool... Until the poor girl died... Tragic. But I don't want to talk about that... You know, repressed memories and everything.

My 5200 runs higher also Uni, may want to check your motherboard or system software or whatever. I have to agree that it should be the same as the 5400 series.

maybe i'm thinking about the LC575?

I'm gonna have to lug it back in now... i'm not too happy about this.

but now i gotta to check this out.

one of my (2) 5200's

This was installed retail 8.6 disk.





my 5400, - yea like the mac startup chime much better.

used same install disk - 8.6 the 5400 looks like it actually goes to 1024x768

Interesting . . . the 5200 RAMDAC appears to limit the display to 16" @ 8bit with the same 1MB VRAM that's available to the 6400 which allows 19" @ 8bit . . .

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/specs/mac_performa_5200cd.html = 1 MB VRAM = 16" = 832 x 624 @ 8bit MaxRes

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac/specs/powermac_5400_200.html = 1MB VRAM = 19" = 1024 x 768 @ 8bit MaxRes

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac/specs/powermac_5500_225.html = 2MB VRAM = 21" = 1152 x 870 @ 16bit & 1280 x 1024 @8bit MaxRes

. . . I think I'd check the part numbers for the CRT and yoke assemblies before making any assumptions about running earlier AIO models at higher resolutions . . .

. . . the MoBo may be willing, but the Display itself may be weak. :?:

I've pretty much run 640 x 480 @ 16bit for video off any of these systems for playing VHS movies or TV in the rugger's room or after I moved. A PCI card found its way into the 6360 very shortly after I got it to run the 20" & later 21" Radius displays at high resolutions and bit depths.

Double the VRAM, 3.3V circuitry on board for PCI, 25% faster system bus and G3 capability puts the 6500/5500 MoBo almost in the must have category for upgrading the 5200 and its RoadApple offspring as I see it. It's better in almost every way than even the 6400/5400.

i could get nutts and put the Tube in the 5200 from the 5400, but ahhh… i just don't care that much about them…. :-(

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You wouldn't have to do that much - great thing about the 5xxx series is that they actually have a full metal chassis underneath, you can just take the plastic pieces off each machine and swap them around, no messing around with CRTs or analog boards required.

Do you remember offhand if the the CRT's are different parts? I haven't looked at the Service Manuals to see, but I can hardly imagine Apple using a better multiscan monitor setup than necessary for either model.

Apple don' give away ice in the winter.

I almost wish I had a 5xxx to max out, Sonnetize, hack in a Trinitron, second PCI slot and paint black to match my USB peripherals. But it's a great honking beast for just a 15" monitor. I've got all the parts necessary, but I'd almost have to get rid of one of my five 21" - 22" Trinitrons to fit it into the HackLab . . .

. . . maybe when one dies. It would look GREAT sitting next to the black 22" ViewSonic running off a good PCI card! }

Been doing research on the 5200 series Performas, and I came by a startling realization. They're basically based off of a modified Quadra 630 board with a 603 Power PC inside right? Wouldn't that mean that if I get my hands on an Apple Power PC upgrade card for my Performa 631CD, it'll effectively turn it into a pseudo-Performa 6310 and doom it to be a Road Apple? I mean, it wouldn't be the same as one, but logically-speaking it makes sense.

Exactly, that's why I had said it didn't make much sense for Apple to have produced such a card for the 6xx series. The upgrade path could well have been a MoBo swap, like it was for the Mac II series and others. But the upgrade card would be a user installation and the MoBo swap would be an authorized dealer only kinda deal.

Your upgrade path for the 631 to anything but a RoadApple would be the 5500 MoBo swap or 6500 with a single height PCI riser replacement.

Just turned my 5400 into a 6500/250 with a G3/500 upgrade card, with TV tuner and video inputs. Some guy on craigslist had it in a closet and gave it to me for twenty bucks. It works pretty well but the 1.4.5 sonnet driver errors out on startup sometimes so I have to look for a newer version somewhere.

@Macdrone: If you find someone who has a copy available, let me know. I need the latest driver for my G3 card in my Power Macintosh 6500.

I've got several different NIB packages for the L2/G3 Crescendos, I'll look to see which drivers I have. They don't appear to be on Sonnet's site, that's surprising, but they still have the manual up.

@ macdrone: out of curiosity, did you mean 5400->5500 (I can edit your post, BTW) and if so, does your CRT now display the higher resolutions available with the increased VRAM on the new MoBo?

Well I guess it would literally be a 5500 but its a 6500 motherboard. Are the L2's you have just for collecting purposes?

Yes it does show 1024 x 768 but its in italics, looks fine when I choose it just too small on the screen so I went to the lower res and thousands of colors as the TV video can not use millions of colors.

Interesting, does 1280 x 1024 show up? I've got to check that out, never heard about it until I pulled those everymac links.

Has anyone got a 5500 to check if it will run at 1280 x 1024? Far better in the 6500 with a real (15" doesn't really count) monitor.

Are the L2's you have just for collecting purposes?

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Make that hacking purposes and you're spot-on, I've got several 6400/6500 boards and machines. I like to base hacks on these twp series because of the AppleTV/Video System and L2/G3 angle. That's the semi-practical side, the nostalgic side is due to the 630->6290 setup in the rug rat's room and the refurb 6360 I bought specifically to Sonnetize, That was my main production machine, hacked with a full length Radius VidCard. It hit the price/performance sweet spot and lasted well enough until the DA came out with an additional PCI slot.

one of my (2) 5200'sThis was installed retail 8.6 disk.

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That's not a 5200. It says "5260" on the front, plain as day, and the 5260 in particular *is* known to only go up to 640x480: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/powermac/specs/powermac_5260_100.html

The 5200-proper, however, and every 5x00 except the 5260 (which was the exceptionally budget oriented member of the already budget-oriented group) can use higher display resolutions.

LOL oh man.....

OPPS

Thanks for that clear up.

You are correct.

For the record, its actually the analog board that limits the 5260, not the logic board. Even if you were to put a 5500 board in there, it would still top out at 640x480. On the other hand, my 5260's logic board has quite happily run at 832x624 in a 6200 case in the past.

yup, my 5400 board was stuck at 640x480 in that 5260 case, as to why they made a turd worse beats the heck outta me.

the only thing worse then a turd is Hershey squirts, thats the 5260.

@Trash80: Like always, you are an asset to the Army. If you could find the latest Sonnet Driver for my Cresendo G3 card, I'd be ever so greatful. I can't reinstall OS9 without it as (at the moment) I can't find the original card that went into the L2 slot... Or I just might be dumb, and it turns out you can re-install OS9 without the original L2 card, and I'm just being a wuss worrying that I might bork the system. I've never owned a Crescendo Card before coius kindly dontated his pre-installed G3 Power Macintosh 6500 to me. I've wanted to clear the OS on it and start fresh, but I've been worried to do it w/o that driver.

Dont need any card in the L2 slot. Just pull it, reinstall the OS then install driver and then reinstall card. No luck on the newer driver yet. I am using 7.6.1 so I dont really need it, but might clear up my boot issue.

All 5xxx series are supported to run up to 9.1 by Apple, G3 or no G3. You'll have no trouble reinstalling OS 9 on the machine, however until you get the Sonnet drivers, it won't recognise/use the G3, you'll be stuck with the onboard 603e.

In the Sonnet Crescendo/L2 G3 400MHz/512 box, I've got: Crescendo/Encore Install Diskette 1.4.5

Has anyone got anything more recent than 1.4.5?

I hear there is a 2.0.3 on the street somewhere just have not been able to find it.

In that case, I'll keep looking!

However, the Copyright date on diskette and manual is 2000 and the "learning about the software" page is mostly about the patches necessary to run their G4 cards under OS9 in G3 (iMac?) systems. The

Be that as it may, simple solution:

Copy "Sonnet Processor Upgrade Extension" and the folder with "Metronome" in it as backup for re-installation after the OS9 install and that should be that.

My 6360/Crescendo L2/400/1MB has been running underOS9 with the 1.4.4 drivers (Metronome Copyright 1998-2000) since I bought 9.0 off the shelf. My guess is that there's no change to the L2 drivers to be had in any later release than 1.4.5, if that even changed for the 1.4.5 release.

Nonvolatile RAM Patch allows a Power Macintosh 73/75/76/85/86/95/9600 to use a G3 or G4 upgrade card.

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Sonnet seems to have added the drivers/utilities for newer generations of their accelerators to a standardized installer disk. Hence, the Manual and Label designation of the 2000 release of 1.4.5 for the Crescendo L2 being spec's as Crescendo/Encore.

Depending upon your software and Macintosh model, Sonnet's software installer may perform the following software installation on your computer.

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The quotes explain thing like why the G3/G4 system patches for Encore upgrades shouldn't be installed manually for an L2 upgrade.

That's a guess, not a WAG, probably a good one. :beige:

In the CrescendoPCI G4 800MHz/1M box, I found the ©2002 Crescendo/Encore Install Diskette 2.0 and I'll bet if it's on there, it'll put the same drivers for a Crescendo L2 into a System Folder as my 1.4.4 installer. If it's not on there, I'll bet this is the cause of any confusion about there being later Crescendo L2 Drivers. Those were as mature as they were likely to get in the 1998-2000 1.4.4 release.

I've got the PCI X Installer CD that came with it too. That's for Crescendo/PCI and MAXpowr PCI accelerators.

the only thing worse then a turd is Hershey squirts, thats the 5260.

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For what it's worth, the target market for the entire 5x00 family was education, and at the time, you really didn't need much more than an LC III or so computationally to run *all* of the edutainment games or do the level of productivity that happened in most K12 schools and even in many higher ed labs for tasks like writing or general network computing tasks. (checking "web mail" for example.)

In service of this particular context, the 5260 was probably a heck of a lot cheaper than its stablemates at the time. I'd be unsurprised to discover that like its distant predecessor the LC520, the 5260 was available in lab packs as a further cost savings technique.

Woefully, probably because it was targeted primarily at the education market (*and may not even have been available at retail or via catalogs) I can't seem to find any references to the price.

Ultimately, I don't know why they'd do it, other than to have an excuse to price it lower, and I think this is what leads to Steve Jobs' mantra for modern Apple-- it's not in their DNA to build really budget-focused machines that aren't objectively bad computers.