Thread
Two Requests
I don't have a machine that is capable of doing the feats listed below at the present time, so I thought I'd ask for some help. (This is for the Guide.)
1.) Can a Mac with an internal floppy drive, like a Molar Mac, when booted into OS X such as Jaguar, recognize 800K disks? I heard that OS X does not support 800K disks, and I also heard that Mac OS X Server 10.0 and 10.1 can read them only. But I'd like to know for sure on the real thing. I'm pretty sure Molar Macs and machines like the beige G3 series with internal FDDs can work with 800Ks in OS 9.
2.) Can a Mac running System 6 connect to OS X 10.3.9 over Ethernet and MacTCP? I've heard that Jaguar is the last to speak "Old AppleTalk" but I'd like to tick off that box concerning 10.3 on the Chart. System 7.0.1 should be able to do it, but I've never known myself as I've never even owned 10.3.
I'd appreciate the help, surely!
1.) Can a Mac with an internal floppy drive, like a Molar Mac, when booted into OS X such as Jaguar, recognize 800K disks? I heard that OS X does not support 800K disks, and I also heard that Mac OS X Server 10.0 and 10.1 can read them only. But I'd like to know for sure on the real thing. I'm pretty sure Molar Macs and machines like the beige G3 series with internal FDDs can work with 800Ks in OS 9.
2.) Can a Mac running System 6 connect to OS X 10.3.9 over Ethernet and MacTCP? I've heard that Jaguar is the last to speak "Old AppleTalk" but I'd like to tick off that box concerning 10.3 on the Chart. System 7.0.1 should be able to do it, but I've never known myself as I've never even owned 10.3.
I'd appreciate the help, surely!
I can try the 6.0.8 to 10.3.9 setup, I am just not on the ball with getting 6.0.8 and MacTCP setup correctly on my SE :-( It's running 7.1 ATM. I have 6.0.8 on a zip but that install is not setup for networking.
OS X does not natively support the SWIM floppy controller in pre-iMac Macs. Thus, by default, it cannot read *ANY* disk in an internal floppy (like in a Molar Mac.)
An 800 kB disk will work fine booted into OS 9.
There was a project that ported a MkLinux floppy driver to OS X, but it was very buggy and insanely slow.
Hey, a quick search turns up my writeup on it from five years ago.
USB floppy drives work fine, but only with HD floppies, not 800k Apple floppies.
An 800 kB disk will work fine booted into OS 9.
There was a project that ported a MkLinux floppy driver to OS X, but it was very buggy and insanely slow.
Hey, a quick search turns up my writeup on it from five years ago.
USB floppy drives work fine, but only with HD floppies, not 800k Apple floppies.
Great info. I've been obsessively tracking down all sorts of info to make the section on Disk Images extra-comprehensive.
I take it this also includes the floppy bay module for the G3 PowerBook series like the Wallstreet? Does that module also read 800Ks under OS 9?
Use a System 6.0.8 NAD. One of the best recovery disks I've ever made.
I have even made 6.0.8 NADs with 800K disks (2), with a full finder and features. It's a bit tricky, but completely possible.
Every floppy drive that shipped directly from Apple internal to a Macintosh (barring the very earliest 400k drives, of course,) can read and write 800k disks when booted directly into the classic Mac OS. But it must be an Apple-original. The VST expansion-bay floppy drive is actually a 120 MB "SuperDisk" drive, which can NOT read 800k floppies.
Really? I thought it was just a conventional 1.44MB drive?
Color me surprised. Correction will be forthcoming...AFIAK the only "external module floppy drive" for any Old World Mac was the module for the PowerBook Duo. Am I correct? All the others had it either built in or didn't have an option for it at all -- the external floppy port stopped with the Mac II series and AFAIK the Color Classic doesn't have one. There might be a PowerBook that doesn't have an internal drive, but requires an external, and said external has 800K support -- but I wouldn't know for Macs other than the Duo series.
Right now I'm planning the next major update to the Guide. Reordering and restructuring, followed by condensing to make it shorter and more concise. In the beginning it was about all-out horizontal and vertical growth, but I'll be making efforts to trim it down considerably while still covering just about everything.
Can anybody else check out 10.3 compatibility for me?
Color me surprised. Correction will be forthcoming...AFIAK the only "external module floppy drive" for any Old World Mac was the module for the PowerBook Duo. Am I correct? All the others had it either built in or didn't have an option for it at all -- the external floppy port stopped with the Mac II series and AFAIK the Color Classic doesn't have one. There might be a PowerBook that doesn't have an internal drive, but requires an external, and said external has 800K support -- but I wouldn't know for Macs other than the Duo series.
Right now I'm planning the next major update to the Guide. Reordering and restructuring, followed by condensing to make it shorter and more concise. In the beginning it was about all-out horizontal and vertical growth, but I'll be making efforts to trim it down considerably while still covering just about everything.
Can anybody else check out 10.3 compatibility for me?
I'm setting up 6.0.8 tonight so I will know or not if it works.
What all do you want tested?
Just file sharing back and forth over appletalk?
Screenshots of either?
(besides the writeup of my findings of course)
What all do you want tested?
Just file sharing back and forth over appletalk?
Screenshots of either?
(besides the writeup of my findings of course)
If it shows up in the Chooser, that is usually good -- but not always (*looks over at OS X Tiger*).
A quick upload and download should be fine. See if there's read/write access -- IIRC in System 6 with my test of Jaguar I didn't always have write access. Check the section on Jaguar if need be -- you'll most likely have to enable "use_appletalk" as per 10.2.
System 6 cannot be mounted by the Panther system onto to the Panther's desktop -- it's a client only. Do me a favor and check if Panther can mount System 7.0.1/7.1 on Panther's desktop and xfer files.
A quick upload and download should be fine. See if there's read/write access -- IIRC in System 6 with my test of Jaguar I didn't always have write access. Check the section on Jaguar if need be -- you'll most likely have to enable "use_appletalk" as per 10.2.
System 6 cannot be mounted by the Panther system onto to the Panther's desktop -- it's a client only. Do me a favor and check if Panther can mount System 7.0.1/7.1 on Panther's desktop and xfer files.
Still trying to get System 6 to play Nice with a Farallon EtherMac SE.. in 7.1 I have to use "Ethernet Built-In" for any kind of connection to work. That option/driver isn't on NSI 1.4.5 so I'm trying to get it from the 1.5.1 disk over to 6.0.8.
In the meantime, Pantera/G3 sees my SE "Maxine" under network. Click on it and asks for authentication. After entering password, it shows the SE's Hard drive and asks to mount it. Click OK and nothing happens, the window just dissapears. I hear the SE crank for a second but no connection is made.
Going the other way, 7.1/SE under chooser, shows my 'Pantera Macintosh'. Click on it to connect and it says that the server is running an incompatible version of appletalk. It's 10.3.9.
I'm guessing (from the patch notes) that in the 10.3.6 update they made a change to AFP protocol that made it incompatible. I wish I could roll back the 10.3.9 update and check.
Will post back once I get (If I can get) System 6 online.
It gets really hot in a small room with a G3/SE/PC and macbook all doing things.. heh
In the meantime, Pantera/G3 sees my SE "Maxine" under network. Click on it and asks for authentication. After entering password, it shows the SE's Hard drive and asks to mount it. Click OK and nothing happens, the window just dissapears. I hear the SE crank for a second but no connection is made.
Going the other way, 7.1/SE under chooser, shows my 'Pantera Macintosh'. Click on it to connect and it says that the server is running an incompatible version of appletalk. It's 10.3.9.
I'm guessing (from the patch notes) that in the 10.3.6 update they made a change to AFP protocol that made it incompatible. I wish I could roll back the 10.3.9 update and check.
Will post back once I get (If I can get) System 6 online.
It gets really hot in a small room with a G3/SE/PC and macbook all doing things.. heh
I got the files copied over but System 6 doesn't like this NIC card.
I'm guessing since it was made in 1994, 6 might be too old?
It works just fine in system 7, maybe it requires it?
I really hope someone else chimes in and you get the answers you are looking for.
(On a side note, system 8.6<=>7.1 with no issues on the same two computers.)
I'm guessing since it was made in 1994, 6 might be too old?
It works just fine in system 7, maybe it requires it?
I really hope someone else chimes in and you get the answers you are looking for.
(On a side note, system 8.6<=>7.1 with no issues on the same two computers.)
I haven't had coffee yet, so I'm not sure I understand the question . . .
Does the "Duo" FDD have 800k support? It actually dates back to the PowerBook 100 with its onboard FDD controller. I wonder if that might support 800k floppies? I haven't got the DevNote for the PB100 handy, but the Luggable had a discrete SWIM chip, if SWIM was gobbled up by an ASIC in the 100, then that might be a dead end as well.
I'd add the 2400 to the FDD free 'Book list as well, but I've no experience with that one.
Does the "Duo" FDD have 800k support? It actually dates back to the PowerBook 100 with its onboard FDD controller. I wonder if that might support 800k floppies? I haven't got the DevNote for the PB100 handy, but the Luggable had a discrete SWIM chip, if SWIM was gobbled up by an ASIC in the 100, then that might be a dead end as well.
I'd add the 2400 to the FDD free 'Book list as well, but I've no experience with that one.
Hmmm.
Here's what you can do. (I'm under the assumption the SE has a 1.44 drive.)
Start up with a plain basic System 6 floppy disk. Even better if you have two floppies available. Then get ahold of RAMDisk+ 2.01 and use it to create a ~1.5MB RAM disk. (Assuming you have 4MB RAM, which is a pitifully easy thing to achieve these days.) Next, make the RAMDisk bootable, and hotswap over to it. Take a fresh formatted 1.44 and install a basic installation of System 6 on it, selecting "Installation for the Macintosh SE". Make another disk just like it, so you end up with two fresh 6.0.8 bootable floppies.
Now, get ahold of AS WS 3.5. Install it onto both floppies. Next, take 1.4.5 and you'll note that you have the option of "Ethernet NB" and "EtherTalk". Install "Ethernet NB" on one disk and "EtherTalk" on to the other disk.
Repeat the 10.3 trails and see what happens. If it still fails, then if you have the Farallon install disk, try that. If you don't, I can't say where to get one within the rules of the forum but I have a backup of mine that came with the former SE/30's Farallon Ethermac card.
RE: Duo floppies:
This will be slightly interesting because the Duo 230/100 (which was not long ago converted back into a 2300cTB) appears to have some slight Mobo issues. The first is that zTerm .9 is hiccuping over the serial ports, which is an obstacle for my Serial Data Transfer project. This means the modem port (and I installed the internal modem software just yesterday, still doesn't work) and the GeoPort isn't playing nice at all, even with AppleTalk off.
So, awhile back I was very interested in fixing a mistake I made on the DC 4.2 version of AS 1.1 for the 512K/512Ke 400K boot disk. So I knew that 7.5 was the last to write to 400K disks, so I tried "fixing it" and the machine froze when copying data to a new 400K disk I had formatted on the SE/30 when I still had it. (This'll have to wait for another machine to solve this problem.)
As far as 800Ks go though, it reads them perfectly fine.
But awhile back I was also strongly interested to know if a 400K disk could be written without actually having 7.5. So I installed 8.1, which cannot even read 400K MFS disks entirely, and wrote some 400K MFS disk image I had laying around. Rebooted into 7.6.1 which can read 400K MFS only, and it worked perfectly fine, aside from the usual System 7 "issues".
If I hadn't relieved myself of that 100MB SCSI 2.5" HDD that came with a certain Duo 230, I could check under 7.1, but I guarantee that the Duo disk drive will read 400K MFS disks given the proper system version.
Here's what you can do. (I'm under the assumption the SE has a 1.44 drive.)
Start up with a plain basic System 6 floppy disk. Even better if you have two floppies available. Then get ahold of RAMDisk+ 2.01 and use it to create a ~1.5MB RAM disk. (Assuming you have 4MB RAM, which is a pitifully easy thing to achieve these days.) Next, make the RAMDisk bootable, and hotswap over to it. Take a fresh formatted 1.44 and install a basic installation of System 6 on it, selecting "Installation for the Macintosh SE". Make another disk just like it, so you end up with two fresh 6.0.8 bootable floppies.
Now, get ahold of AS WS 3.5. Install it onto both floppies. Next, take 1.4.5 and you'll note that you have the option of "Ethernet NB" and "EtherTalk". Install "Ethernet NB" on one disk and "EtherTalk" on to the other disk.
Repeat the 10.3 trails and see what happens. If it still fails, then if you have the Farallon install disk, try that. If you don't, I can't say where to get one within the rules of the forum but I have a backup of mine that came with the former SE/30's Farallon Ethermac card.
RE: Duo floppies:
This will be slightly interesting because the Duo 230/100 (which was not long ago converted back into a 2300cTB) appears to have some slight Mobo issues. The first is that zTerm .9 is hiccuping over the serial ports, which is an obstacle for my Serial Data Transfer project. This means the modem port (and I installed the internal modem software just yesterday, still doesn't work) and the GeoPort isn't playing nice at all, even with AppleTalk off.
So, awhile back I was very interested in fixing a mistake I made on the DC 4.2 version of AS 1.1 for the 512K/512Ke 400K boot disk. So I knew that 7.5 was the last to write to 400K disks, so I tried "fixing it" and the machine froze when copying data to a new 400K disk I had formatted on the SE/30 when I still had it. (This'll have to wait for another machine to solve this problem.)
As far as 800Ks go though, it reads them perfectly fine.
But awhile back I was also strongly interested to know if a 400K disk could be written without actually having 7.5. So I installed 8.1, which cannot even read 400K MFS disks entirely, and wrote some 400K MFS disk image I had laying around. Rebooted into 7.6.1 which can read 400K MFS only, and it worked perfectly fine, aside from the usual System 7 "issues".
If I hadn't relieved myself of that 100MB SCSI 2.5" HDD that came with a certain Duo 230, I could check under 7.1, but I guarantee that the Duo disk drive will read 400K MFS disks given the proper system version.
Ah, yes. Sorry, I was only referring to very late Macs with floppy drives.
Apple-made "Superdrive" externals also work with both 1.4 MB and 800 k disks:
- The (rare) standard desktop-port Superdrive external floppy drives. It only works with 1.4 MB disks with a very few systems - ones that both have an internal Superdrive AND have an external floppy port, such as the SE Superdrive, SE/30, Classic, IIx, IIci. HOWEVER - *ANY* system compatible with an 800k external drive can use it to read/write 800k (and 400k) floppy disks.
The "Duo" drive, which is the same drive as used on the PowerBook 100.
The PowerBook 2400C external drive.
@Mk.558
What "guide" is this we're talking about? Sounds interesting.
What "guide" is this we're talking about? Sounds interesting.
The module for the 3400c is a conventional 800K-capable drive too, right? The PB G3 series is the only one that has that SuperDISK type module?
Request #3:
More information on Netatalk, compiling it from source and setting it up to be used with MacTCP. I only was able to get Netatalk working with OT 1.3. I emailed the netatalk-dev team and got nothing useful.
http://www.lyonlabs.org/macintosh/index.html
I know it's possible, but the steps are extremely elusive. I emailed Mr. Holmer last month and he said he'd be picking up an SE/30 ( :approve: ) but I fired off another email last week and haven't heard anything back.
Request #3:
More information on Netatalk, compiling it from source and setting it up to be used with MacTCP. I only was able to get Netatalk working with OT 1.3. I emailed the netatalk-dev team and got nothing useful.
http://www.lyonlabs.org/macintosh/index.html
I know it's possible, but the steps are extremely elusive. I emailed Mr. Holmer last month and he said he'd be picking up an SE/30 ( :approve: ) but I fired off another email last week and haven't heard anything back.
Anybody else want to take a crack at this?
One option is to start with a bare-bones basic 10.3.0, and incrementally upgrade it all the way up, 10.3.1, 10.3.3, etc up to 10.3.9.
One option is to start with a bare-bones basic 10.3.0, and incrementally upgrade it all the way up, 10.3.1, 10.3.3, etc up to 10.3.9.
Yes, Jaguar (10.2) was the last OS X variant to speak pure AppleTalk when it came to file sharing. I think Panther (10.3) could use AppleTalk for discovery, but the subsequent connection was made with TCP/IP, requiring a Mac with 7.5., and a minimum version of Open Transport and the AppleShare client.
AppleTalk remained in 10.3 to 10.5, but was really only there for printing.
AppleTalk remained in 10.3 to 10.5, but was really only there for printing.
Just to clarify:
The Powerbook G3 shipped with an original Apple floppy drive removable drive bay cartridge (which can read/write 800k Apple floppies under OS 9 and earlier), and there was also a third party SuperDisk cartridge from VST (which can only read 1.4MB floppies and the proprietary 100MB SuperDisks).
The Powerbook G3 shipped with an original Apple floppy drive removable drive bay cartridge (which can read/write 800k Apple floppies under OS 9 and earlier), and there was also a third party SuperDisk cartridge from VST (which can only read 1.4MB floppies and the proprietary 100MB SuperDisks).
Gotcha. This applied for all the PB G3s -- Wallstreet, Pismo, Kanga, ...?
Well, I'm not sure if the Apple floppy shipped as standard or as an option with the Pismo, but it was definitely available. Did the Kanga even have a removable drivebay? Wallstreet and Lombard - definitely.
Yep, the Kanga was basically a 3400c/G3.
IIRC I was running OS 10.2 on my wallstreet when I made disk images of all my old floppies... Definitely had 800k disks in the bunch... But I can't be 100% certan I know 9.2.1 was also installed on it, and that was a good 8+ years ago.
As for apple talk, OS 10.5 does a crap job with AppleTalk for printing, my pb180 can see the printers but it can't seem to print to them (using 10.5 server's print server). Been using FTP to transfer files... Eventually I may try 7.6.1, have CD, just have to work out how to get that installed with out having a CD-ROM drive that'll connect to the PowerBook.
As for apple talk, OS 10.5 does a crap job with AppleTalk for printing, my pb180 can see the printers but it can't seem to print to them (using 10.5 server's print server). Been using FTP to transfer files... Eventually I may try 7.6.1, have CD, just have to work out how to get that installed with out having a CD-ROM drive that'll connect to the PowerBook.
^ You're using a SCSI to Ethernet adapter?
For installing 7.6, you can share the CD out from 10.5 and access it through FTP. Better is to get ahold of something like this which is about 10 years old -- and binhex the installer files, then push them out via ftp.
Netatalk -- anybody would like to figure it out? In the upcoming version 3, I've removed the instructions for setting up netatalk under the Linux section for three reasons: 1) the linux version is already going out of date (11.10); 2) once the repositories get updated to netatalk 3.0, it'll be worthless as netatalk 3.0 doesn't have afp support; and 3) because of the highly dynamic nature of Linux, showing the instructions for one distro isn't exactly conclusive because the only way I got it to work was via installing from the repositories.
Installing from source will eventually be the only way forward. I tried looking for clues from the A2 crowd because there is support for net-booting a IIGS from netatalk with the A2BOOT flag.
For installing 7.6, you can share the CD out from 10.5 and access it through FTP. Better is to get ahold of something like this which is about 10 years old -- and binhex the installer files, then push them out via ftp.
Netatalk -- anybody would like to figure it out? In the upcoming version 3, I've removed the instructions for setting up netatalk under the Linux section for three reasons: 1) the linux version is already going out of date (11.10); 2) once the repositories get updated to netatalk 3.0, it'll be worthless as netatalk 3.0 doesn't have afp support; and 3) because of the highly dynamic nature of Linux, showing the instructions for one distro isn't exactly conclusive because the only way I got it to work was via installing from the repositories.
Installing from source will eventually be the only way forward. I tried looking for clues from the A2 crowd because there is support for net-booting a IIGS from netatalk with the A2BOOT flag.
Yup, I have the one Asante mini EN/SC. I'll try binhexing it...
other thing I'd love to have figured out, in classic networking is a MacIP router software that'll work on a moderish(OSX) mac. that way I could use the Appletalk to Ethernet box I've got to get the plus online too.
other thing I'd love to have figured out, in classic networking is a MacIP router software that'll work on a moderish(OSX) mac. that way I could use the Appletalk to Ethernet box I've got to get the plus online too.
I found Netatalk to be the best solution for AppleShare. I have 2.1.6 running in a Debian virtual machine and have connected to it with System 6 up to 10.8. I had problems connecting without TCP/IP with 2.2.1 so I've stuck with 2.1.6 ever since.
Using MacIP in the TCP/IP control panel is for LocalTalk only and will not work out to TCP/IP. Furthermore, an AFP bridge will only work with AFP over AppleTalk with LocalTalk to AFP over AppleTalk with Ethernet. Only exotic bridges like the Cayman Systems Gatorbox can do like what you're describing. They are also rare-ish and expensive.Yup, I have the one Asante mini EN/SC. I'll try binhexing it...
other thing I'd love to have figured out, in classic networking is a MacIP router software that'll work on a moderish(OSX) mac. that way I could use the Appletalk to Ethernet box I've got to get the plus online too.
Great. Have you tried 2.2.4? It's the last version of version 2, wasn't sure if it would work.
Would you be so kind as to detail the steps? This is what the rest of the internet provides: [&%√˙©ƒ@Ω£]. I can't make any sense of it, and neither do they detail how they compiled it from source. The last time I did it, the Netatalk library was installed in the wrong directory. The official man pages are rather broadly written, and there's probably a dozen gotchas relating to not using a certain flag or something.
I do have a laptop with 9.10 on it, runs "A bit sluggish", probably would run a bit better on 512MB RAM rather than 384 which is has now (XP SP3 runs perfectly fine). I would install Netatalk on it but because it's a pentaboot and reinstalling an OS would be a major irritation, I'll probably test the "Procedure" in a VM first. I'd like to have Netatalk on it because with the Ubuntu distro, there is $ dd, HFS read support and many other neat little things to help grease the wheels.
I haven't tried 2.2.4. I'm working on the if-it-ain't-broken principle. I'm not very linux literate either and had to google up every step of the way so I took notes as I went along. This guide was helpful, particularly with setting up avahi (which enables auto-discovery for OS X). It also details how to add shares etc.
Compiling netatalk (this is for 2.1.6 and debian)
Required dependencies: libavahi-client-dev libcups2-dev libdb-dev libssl-dev (install these first using apt-get or whatever package manager the distro uses)
Configure: ./configure --enable-debian --enable-zeroconf --enable-ddp --enable-cups --enable-ssl --sysconfdir=/etc --with-uams-path=/usr/lib/netatalk
Make it load on startup: update-rc.d netatalk defaults
Installing it in a VM is also handy because it also makes it portable. If you reinstall your system or want to install the server on another machine you just have to install the VM software and import your VM. I'm using VirtualBox here.
Since you say that it can be mounted in System 6, that means that your .conf files are at least somewhat correct. Would you be so kind as to upload all the contents (XXXXXXXX out any you'd consider "sensitive") of the afpd.conf, /etc/default/netatalk and /etc/netatalk/AppleVolumes.default files to pastebin?
That kremalicious thing was my source for doing it on the Guide, but that was from repository source, not compiling it manually. Any notes of yours you'd like to share?
EDIT: Did you also load the Berkeley DB libraries? If so, how?
That kremalicious thing was my source for doing it on the Guide, but that was from repository source, not compiling it manually. Any notes of yours you'd like to share?
EDIT: Did you also load the Berkeley DB libraries? If so, how?
Here's my conf files. On System 6 the shares were initially mounted read-only. When I updated the AppleShare Client to whatever version would run on System 6 (I can't remember now and those Macs are gone) I was able to write as well.
afpd.conf
AppleVolumes.default
The media/sf_ folders are folders on the host PC attached using VirtualBox's folder sharing. This is also why I redirected their database files to folders inside the VM. The Essentials share is a folder in the VM.
atalkd.conf
This was largely (completely?) system-generated. If eth0 is missing from the end of your file just add it and I think it will fill in the rest later.
As for compiling from source, after installing the required dependencies I just downloaded the 2.1.6 tarball, extracted it and ran the configure string in my previous post. Then probably followed up with "make install" (I haven't anything in my notes about this so I'm assuming it was standard operating procedure after configure).
I haven't got any mention of the Berkeley DB libraries in my notes. Are they needed?
afpd.conf
Code:
- -transall -uamlist uams_clrtxt.so,uams_dhx.so,uams_dhx2.so -nosavepassword
Code:
:DEFAULT: options:upriv,usedots
/media/sf_Macintosh "Macintosh Archive" dbpath:/home/mac/.dbfiles/macintosh options:ro
/media/sf_Shared "Shared Folder" dbpath:/home/mac/.dbfiles/shared
/software/Essentials "Essentials"atalkd.conf
Code:
eth0 -phase 2 -net 0-65534 -addr 65280.163As for compiling from source, after installing the required dependencies I just downloaded the 2.1.6 tarball, extracted it and ran the configure string in my previous post. Then probably followed up with "make install" (I haven't anything in my notes about this so I'm assuming it was standard operating procedure after configure).
I haven't got any mention of the Berkeley DB libraries in my notes. Are they needed?
They say that it's required.
I spoke via email to the gent here on this page and he stated in an email that he "ignored the HOWTO" and instead followed something else online, but didn't state what that article was.
Given that the article was last updated in 2011, and 2.1.6 was around in 2011, I'll be under the assumption that he used the same or similar release.
Edit: I'm going to have to also install the other libraries like lib-dev-ssl via source because 9.10 is beyond the repository maintenance schedule.
I spoke via email to the gent here on this page and he stated in an email that he "ignored the HOWTO" and instead followed something else online, but didn't state what that article was.
Given that the article was last updated in 2011, and 2.1.6 was around in 2011, I'll be under the assumption that he used the same or similar release.
Edit: I'm going to have to also install the other libraries like lib-dev-ssl via source because 9.10 is beyond the repository maintenance schedule.
See, I said I wasn't very linux literate. libdb-dev are the Berkeley DB libraries.
Also, I don't know if it has any bearing on the System 6 side of things, but neither of those compacts had ethernet. I had them connected via LocalTalk to a 7500 running LocalTalk Bridge.
Also, I don't know if it has any bearing on the System 6 side of things, but neither of those compacts had ethernet. I had them connected via LocalTalk to a 7500 running LocalTalk Bridge.
This is getting real nerdy. First berkeleydb won't install because G++ isn't working. So in Typical Linux Fashion there's a big round-robin going around where this needs that and that needs that other thing which first requires this which ... :disapprove:
I have never felt the feeling, but I wonder what it's like to be an über Linux geek and just have Terminal commands and all that with a massive outflowing of superknowledge.
I have never felt the feeling, but I wonder what it's like to be an über Linux geek and just have Terminal commands and all that with a massive outflowing of superknowledge.
yeah
I was using Ubuntu 9.10, to see if it can be done in a 7 year old operating system without any issues. The answer is no. No repository support = you're on your own, just like the old days of writing your own BASIC programs because nothing was available.
I put Debian 6.0.7 Squeeze on a VM last night. That, should work fine. I'll have to lookup in the manual how to work with the shared folders in the VB. Another annoyance is the Guest Additions don't work under Debian. I'll update to the lastest version of VB and see what happens.
I was using Ubuntu 9.10, to see if it can be done in a 7 year old operating system without any issues. The answer is no.
No repository support = you're on your own, just like the old days of writing your own BASIC programs because nothing was available.I put Debian 6.0.7 Squeeze on a VM last night. That, should work fine. I'll have to lookup in the manual how to work with the shared folders in the VB. Another annoyance is the Guest Additions don't work under Debian. I'll update to the lastest version of VB and see what happens.
For what it is worth, AFP-over-Ethernet does indeed work for file transfer right up through Snow Leopard, although somewhat awkwardly. My IIci running 7.5.5/OT1.3/SharewayIP is mountable by my 10.6.8 desktop here: it can be a client to the very old server provided by the IIci. The old machine cannot see the new machines at all- Chooser sees nothing. The modern machine doesn't *see* the old machine in a browsing sense, either. But by using the Finder "Go>Connect to Server" mechanism in OS X, connection can be made to the old machine by manually specifying its AFP servername or IP address. You can then move files up and down, albeit horrifically slowly. It does work, and is my "backup backup" mechanism. I periodically stuff and binhex everything important, and then slurp the binhexed archive up onto the modern machines for safekeeping (an overnight or even multiday process), in addition to keeping a couple of up-to-date clones of the data on drives attached to the IIci.
I have been sporadically trying to get this to work under Lion as well. Apple killed off support for the oldest versions of the AFP protocol by default in 10.7 and up (for security reasons, apparently), but supposedly it is possible to restore access by munging the com.apple.AppleShareClient plist via defaults write: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4700 . However, I haven't been able to make this work just yet. For some utterly perverse reason, the defaults write process doesn't seem to stick (even running logged in as root), and the plist reverts to its initial default state as soon as a connection attempt is made. Haven't had time to debug that yet, but someday I'll get around to it. Since I'm not currently planning on upgrading my desktop here beyond Snow Leopard, it hasn't become germane yet.
I have been sporadically trying to get this to work under Lion as well. Apple killed off support for the oldest versions of the AFP protocol by default in 10.7 and up (for security reasons, apparently), but supposedly it is possible to restore access by munging the com.apple.AppleShareClient plist via defaults write: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4700 . However, I haven't been able to make this work just yet. For some utterly perverse reason, the defaults write process doesn't seem to stick (even running logged in as root), and the plist reverts to its initial default state as soon as a connection attempt is made. Haven't had time to debug that yet, but someday I'll get around to it. Since I'm not currently planning on upgrading my desktop here beyond Snow Leopard, it hasn't become germane yet.
Yeah I'm on Squeeze here too. The VBox Additions do work (I'm using them), but you need to compile them (yay linux!) from the additions CD. Instructions are here. But here's how I did it (this is what I have in my notes):
Also I found out the version number of the AppleShare update to get System 6 write support. It's AppleShare Client 3.5.
I have got shared folders to work before without a hitch in VB but this time it's especially difficult.
I made a duplicate of the VM just before I ran ./configure so I can test out both 2.1.6 and 2.2.4 and report back.
I made a duplicate of the VM just before I ran ./configure so I can test out both 2.1.6 and 2.2.4 and report back.
I just added the folders in the Shared Folder section of the VM, set whether I wanted them readable or not and set them to automount. They then show up in the emulated Debian in the /media folder.
I have one folder (Shared Folder) that is writable but I can't overwrite or delete files from the Mac side. I get an error -50 every time. I don't know how to fix that. I just delete the files on the PC afterwards. I have no problem deleting files in the Essentials share which is in the VM so I guess it's related to VB's folder sharing.
I have one folder (Shared Folder) that is writable but I can't overwrite or delete files from the Mac side. I get an error -50 every time. I don't know how to fix that. I just delete the files on the PC afterwards. I have no problem deleting files in the Essentials share which is in the VM so I guess it's related to VB's folder sharing.
I have 2.1.6 installed in the VM now, I'm going to do a test run to confirm anything before I push all throttles forward. Some more questions:
1) sudo update-rc.d netatalk defaults -- When is this supposed to be run? I ran it just after the install (sudo make install) and I get this:
From your earlier configuration files as shown here, which one is the /etc/default/netatalk? I'm not sure if any of the daemons in /etc/default/netatalk like ATALKD_RUN should be changed to "yes" or anything else.
EDIT: Finished, probably. Running sudo gedit /etc/init.d/netatalk restart results in an error: "45: eth1: not found". eth1 is how the Debian VM sees the ethernet port, and connects out to the web fine. eth0 in the config files doesn't work, replacing it with eth1 does nothing either.
1) sudo update-rc.d netatalk defaults -- When is this supposed to be run? I ran it just after the install (sudo make install) and I get this:
Code:
floe@debian:~/Downloads/netatalk-2.1.6$ sudo update-rc.d netatalk defaults
update-rc.d: using dependency based boot sequencing
update-rc.d: warning: netatalk stop runlevel arguments (0 1 6) do not match LSB Default-Stop values(1)
floe@debian:~/Downloads/netatalk-2.1.6$EDIT: Finished, probably. Running sudo gedit /etc/init.d/netatalk restart results in an error: "45: eth1: not found". eth1 is how the Debian VM sees the ethernet port, and connects out to the web fine. eth0 in the config files doesn't work, replacing it with eth1 does nothing either.
This is what I have in /etc/default/netatalk:
For the eth1: not found error I think you just add eth1 to the end of atalkd.conf and either restart netatalk or just restart the VM. Then it should end up looking something like mine. It's been a while since I did all this so it's a bit hazy.
Code:
# Netatalk configuration
# Change this to increase the maximum number of clients that can connect:
AFPD_MAX_CLIENTS=20
# Change this to set the machine's atalk name and zone.
# NOTE: if your zone has spaces in it, you're better off specifying
# it in afpd.conf
#ATALK_ZONE=@zone
ATALK_NAME=`echo ${HOSTNAME}|cut -d. -f1`
# specify the Mac and unix charsets to be used
ATALK_MAC_CHARSET='MAC_ROMAN'
ATALK_UNIX_CHARSET='LOCALE'
# specify the UAMs to enable
# available options: uams_guest.so, uams_clrtxt.so, uams_randnum.so,
# uams_dhx.so, uams_dhx2.so
# AFPD_UAMLIST="-U uams_dhx.so,uams_dhx2.so"
# Change this to set the id of the guest user
AFPD_GUEST=nobody
# Set which daemons to run.
# If you need legacy AppleTalk, run atalkd.
# papd, timelord and a2boot are dependent upon atalkd.
# If you use "AFP over TCP" server only, run only cnid_metad and afpd.
ATALKD_RUN=yes
PAPD_RUN=no
TIMELORD_RUN=no
A2BOOT_RUN=no
CNID_METAD_RUN=yes
AFPD_RUN=yes
# Control whether the daemons are started in the background.
# If it is dissatisfied that atalkd starts slowly, set "yes".
ATALK_BGROUND=yes
# export the charsets, read form ENV by apps
export ATALK_MAC_CHARSET
export ATALK_UNIX_CHARSET
# config for cnid_metad. Default log config:
# CNID_CONFIG="-l log_note"I'm still getting a failure to locate eth0 in either a real Linux install or the VM. I've fired off an email to the netatalk-admin email crew and see what comes back. Seems weird.
http://i.imgur.com/d58XKBb.jpg
I did backup an image of the thumbdrive Linux install just in case.
http://i.imgur.com/d58XKBb.jpg
I did backup an image of the thumbdrive Linux install just in case.
Did you just paste my eth settings into the end of /etc/default/netatalk changing eth0 for eth1? That's the wrong file anyway so you should remove that.
If it's not there already just add "eth1" to the end of atalkd.conf and restart netatalk.
If it's not there already just add "eth1" to the end of atalkd.conf and restart netatalk.
Fixed!
Here is the Duo 2300cTB connected over MacTCP in 7.5.3:
It also worked over the AFP bridge. I did some test files to measure the downlink/uplink rates. Such figures will be found in the next edition of the Guide!
The Avahi wasn't broadcasting the floe-thumbdrive volume in 10.5.8. No problem since I just entered afp://192.168.1.104 and all was well. The floe-thumbdrive volume is a 10.04.4LTS with full updates running on a thumbdrive off a PC. Boots the mini as well with rEFIt, works great.
I saved an image of the thumbdrive before I put 2.1.6 on it. I'm going to $ dd the image back on it and try 2.2.4 to see what happens. Apparently in the changelog, with 2.2alpha1 they disabled ddp by default. When I tried a 12.04 Precise image and did sudo apt-get netatalk for 2.2.2, the ddp feature was not available in /etc/default/netatalk. I'm guessing it -has- to be compiled from source to get the ddp feature, so the apt-get method won't work (I'm not sure if you can add flags like --enable-ddp to sudo apt-get install _______ commands).
Here is the Duo 2300cTB connected over MacTCP in 7.5.3:
It also worked over the AFP bridge. I did some test files to measure the downlink/uplink rates. Such figures will be found in the next edition of the Guide!
The Avahi wasn't broadcasting the floe-thumbdrive volume in 10.5.8. No problem since I just entered afp://192.168.1.104 and all was well. The floe-thumbdrive volume is a 10.04.4LTS with full updates running on a thumbdrive off a PC. Boots the mini as well with rEFIt, works great.
I saved an image of the thumbdrive before I put 2.1.6 on it. I'm going to $ dd the image back on it and try 2.2.4 to see what happens. Apparently in the changelog, with 2.2alpha1 they disabled ddp by default. When I tried a 12.04 Precise image and did sudo apt-get netatalk for 2.2.2, the ddp feature was not available in /etc/default/netatalk. I'm guessing it -has- to be compiled from source to get the ddp feature, so the apt-get method won't work (I'm not sure if you can add flags like --enable-ddp to sudo apt-get install _______ commands).
Confirmed: 2.2.4 netatalk doesn't even show up in a MacTCP system's Chooser. In fact it didn't show up in a 7.6.1/OT 1.3/ASC 3.8.3's Chooser either -- only when I entered 192.168.1.106 did a connection begin.
So 2.1.6 it is. All the better. BTW when compiling 2.2.4 I noted errors at the beginning just before the fast-moving torrent of text began warning that --enable-ssl was not supported. Intrigued I ran ./configure --help and noted that the proper method is to use --with-ssl-path=/[DIRECTORY], like my case here:
For file sharing, I don't know if CUPS is really necessary, nor libssl, but we'll go along for the fun of it. libdb-dev and libavahi-client-dev are a really good idea.
I've thought about making a bootable thumbdrive that I can market for cheap. I'd need a stack of 8GB thumbdrives though. Only problem with that is I have a unusually strong attraction for GNOME2 and I don't like apt-get gnome-fallback hacks either...
So 2.1.6 it is. All the better. BTW when compiling 2.2.4 I noted errors at the beginning just before the fast-moving torrent of text began warning that --enable-ssl was not supported. Intrigued I ran ./configure --help and noted that the proper method is to use --with-ssl-path=/[DIRECTORY], like my case here:
Code:
./configure --enable-debian --enable-zeroconf --enable-ddp --enable-cups --sysconfdir=/etc --with-ssl-dir=/usr/lib/libssl --with-uams-path=/usr/lib/netatalkI've thought about making a bootable thumbdrive that I can market for cheap. I'd need a stack of 8GB thumbdrives though. Only problem with that is I have a unusually strong attraction for GNOME2 and I don't like apt-get gnome-fallback hacks either...
Sweet. Glad you got it up and running! And thanks for confirming that 2.2.4 is a no-go. I haven't ran into any issues with 2.1.6 here so it's a keeper for me.
I kept my VM as minimal as possible so it doesn't have any GUI. It just boots to a login prompt.
For avahi here's my notes. They're probably largely taken from that ubuntu guide I linked to earlier.
You can change the model from Xserve to any from /System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Info.plist on a Mac.
I kept my VM as minimal as possible so it doesn't have any GUI. It just boots to a login prompt.
For avahi here's my notes. They're probably largely taken from that ubuntu guide I linked to earlier.
Code:
install: avahi-daemon, libnss-mdns
edit /etc/nsswitch.conf adding mdns to end of hosts line
create /etc/avahi/services/afpd.service with following contents:
<?xml version="1.0" standalone='no'?>
%h
_afpovertcp._tcp
548
_device-info._tcp
0
model=Xserveyeah
I checked the changelogs and didn't see anything fancy in the REMOVE category for 2.2.x.
Check out this picture from installing netatalk from the repositories in 12.10:
http://i.imgur.com/QFjyZQ4.jpg
Some different libraries it references.
I'll confirm System 6 compatiblity when I get the LCII going. Not sure when that will happen but this next edition will hopefully clear up a lot of tasks to-do.
I'm making sure to build my bootable thumbdrive image (2GB FAT32 volume, 6GB 10.04LTS volume) before the backport-repositories expire. I can't stand any of the newer distros entirely. Using nothing but a command line interface would be interesting for keeping sizes down and simple VM stuff. Since it appears that Netatalk is a server only (wouldn't detect my 10.5.8 AFP broadcast or 7.5's file sharing active) then a command line only interface might be okay for some people.
I checked the changelogs and didn't see anything fancy in the REMOVE category for 2.2.x.
Check out this picture from installing netatalk from the repositories in 12.10:
http://i.imgur.com/QFjyZQ4.jpg
Some different libraries it references.
I'll confirm System 6 compatiblity when I get the LCII going. Not sure when that will happen but this next edition will hopefully clear up a lot of tasks to-do.
I'm making sure to build my bootable thumbdrive image (2GB FAT32 volume, 6GB 10.04LTS volume) before the backport-repositories expire. I can't stand any of the newer distros entirely. Using nothing but a command line interface would be interesting for keeping sizes down and simple VM stuff. Since it appears that Netatalk is a server only (wouldn't detect my 10.5.8 AFP broadcast or 7.5's file sharing active) then a command line only interface might be okay for some people.