Thread
Quite unique IIfx on ebay..
No, its not my auction.
But I have stockpiled popcorn and dr Pepper to follow what could turn into "vintage-mac bidding-war-of-the-year".
Who needs TV?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/apple-mac-IIfx-vintage-computer-with-4-digidesign-samplecell-/221282737956?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item33857a9f24
But I have stockpiled popcorn and dr Pepper to follow what could turn into "vintage-mac bidding-war-of-the-year".
Who needs TV?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/apple-mac-IIfx-vintage-computer-with-4-digidesign-samplecell-/221282737956?pt=US_Vintage_Computers_Mainframes&hash=item33857a9f24
I saw this one too, I'm wondering what's driving the interest?
is it the 128mb of hard to find ram? or the Digidesign Samplecell?
Or are IIFX's in nice cosmetic condition just that hard to find now?
Z
is it the 128mb of hard to find ram? or the Digidesign Samplecell?
Or are IIFX's in nice cosmetic condition just that hard to find now?
Z
8-o
128MB of IIfx RAM = Hen's Teeth
128MB of IIfx RAM = Hen's Teeth
It will be stripped of the digidesign cards and they'll start popping up in a week or three.
how high might this get? or are we not allowed to talk about $$$
The rule is meant to prevent people from making abusive comments about offerings, ridiculing sellers, overpricing, lack of knowledge (intelligence?) etc.
I'll bow to the other mods rulings on this, but we've often speculated about how high auctions might go due to rarity and undeniable worth, like the sub-200 serial no. Apple II auction recently.
I'll bow to the other mods rulings on this, but we've often speculated about how high auctions might go due to rarity and undeniable worth, like the sub-200 serial no. Apple II auction recently.
whats a digidesign card.
...I was curious too... so I found a response from 'sky' on this board entry
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/368132-digidesign-nubus-cards-90s.html
Is this the answer? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Tools
Sound Tools was a digital audio workstation released by Digidesign in the late 1980s. Its successor, Pro Tools, is the current industry standard in music production and TV/film audio post production.[citation needed]
It consisted of a NuBus DSP Card (Sound Accelerator II), Digital Interface (DAT I/O), Analog Interface (AD In) and software (Sound Designer II). It was later replaced by Sound Tools II, which utilized an improved DSP Card (Sound Accelerator II/2) and Interface (442 I/O, same as used in the original Pro Tools system).
It provided mono or stereo recording/editing/playback, as well as DSP effects like EQ, Gain Change, and noise reduction. It was initially made for the Macintosh platform with an Atari version available later.
btw, I put in a bid on it...
Always wait until the last 30 seconds to bid. Nobody wins a bidding war except the seller, who needs that? The only reason to bid early is to put the kaibosh on a BIN so nobody can snap it up before you try to snipe it. [}
] ]'>
I just bid on a monitor. It looks like you can schedule an automatic (last second?) bid through eBay now . . .
. . . more likely it's a bidding war instigation device . . . :
] ]'>I just bid on a monitor. It looks like you can schedule an automatic (last second?) bid through eBay now . . .
. . . more likely it's a bidding war instigation device . . . :
You're better off placing a $2000 bid. If you are up against people who want to go beyond their limit, pull the rug out days earlier and then tell them later how much they suck for trying to robo-bid.
:lol: They're just naive and inexperienced. eBay isn't an auction house, it's a betting parlor. Put that $2,000 bid in the last thirty seconds and that's good enough. I bid what I think I really wanna pay and more power to a sniper who wants it more than I do, I'll be disappointed, but not angry.
Nothing makes me laugh more than whining complaints about sniping. If you look at it rationally instead of emotionally, there's no other conclusion to be made about the most efficient process for buying on eBay, IMO.
Nothing makes me laugh more than whining complaints about sniping. If you look at it rationally instead of emotionally, there's no other conclusion to be made about the most efficient process for buying on eBay, IMO.
I'm with CelGen on this one. Put in what you're willing to pay for the item up front. If you win it, great. If not, you've saved that amount of money, instead of getting into the sniping war and finding that you've just used your kids as financing for something unintentionally. Frequently, I get what I've been looking for, at a reasonable price, by doing that.
-J
-J
I agree that the last minute bid with what you want to pay for it (sniping for effect?) is usually the way to go, but sometimes I want the reminders associated with posting a bid (my bid was immediately countered with an autobid and it went up a whole $2 because of me). The bid early thing almost always goes badly (from any that I've participated on), although I have had a few things that I bid early on, forgot about or was unavailable for the end and wound up winning... sometimes you just get lucky and everyone is out watching something else (or doesn't care).
IIRC, CelGen's a sniper. He was making fun of the folks who'll bid an auction up incrementally before it ever gets anywhere near what it'll go for at the end. You'll sometimes see three or four clowns have done that to each other. That's a no-win situation if you get involved.
If you bid early, that's how you get in a war. What do you do when you see that $2,001 bid? Bid just what you're willing to pay at the very end and you won't have the chance to get in a war by having second thoughts and upping the ante when you see someone has outbid you over the course of the auction.
If someone else bids more in the snipe window, so be it, you won't have a time to try to bid a second time so there's no temptation to go overboard/over-budget.
Just my $.02
If you bid early, that's how you get in a war. What do you do when you see that $2,001 bid? Bid just what you're willing to pay at the very end and you won't have the chance to get in a war by having second thoughts and upping the ante when you see someone has outbid you over the course of the auction.
If someone else bids more in the snipe window, so be it, you won't have a time to try to bid a second time so there's no temptation to go overboard/over-budget.
Just my $.02
Last auction I did bid in was for a DEC LA-120 on a government auction site. Set my bid an hour after the listing was up (was in touch with my university so they could tell me when it went up) and watched for four days as one guy kept stuffing bids and eventually gave up at $52.60 and three days before closing. After taxes it was $75 which was over $300 less than any similar LA-120 on ebay.
A chuckle is permitted because the money I saved pays my car insurance for three months or gives me eight tanks of gas or a small stack of university course books and supplies.
Then people can't believe I got it for so cheap. Remember how I mentioned how my Absolutely Apple IIfx system was less than $100 to build? People still can't believe it.
Yeah, that's not how an auction works. That's being an asshole.
No really. It's like budging in line at the box office to buy tickets. You going to stand for that s***? No, you want your Beiber tickets, dammit!
Unlike my government auction site ebay has no incentive to push forward auction times when bids are placed in the last ten seconds. If they did they would miss out on hundreds or thousands of dollars more in item value which they can tax back in fees.
Sniping exists simply because of capitalist greed.
I stopped bidding on ebay years ago.
Eventually you get fed up on bidding $35 on an ED floppy drive, watching the bid sit for days and in the closing seconds a half dozen others blast the price up to $102.51. I've been using the Make an Offer and Buy it Now options since 2008 and between major PC and Mac hauls while living in Vancouver I've run out of reasons to buy more gear on ebay. All you are doing when you go over your budget and snipe is help inflate and bias the value of hardware which can hit very close to home when small chains of second hand stores are looking up hardware prices on ebay (and we've ALL had someone tell us "it was this much on ebay!"). I bet anyone here $1000 that if ebay ran like a REAL auction house (bid in the closing seconds and the listing time is extended ten more seconds, thus defeating snipers) the value of some of our most prized hardware would fall through the floor.
Now now. What was the forum rule about going after other members?
Still cheap currently for what you get. I have a samplcell card but I installed it in an early Nubus PPC (I think I left it in a 7100/66).
There is what looks like a 9 pin VGA card and some kind of SCSI card (probably the board the sample cells connect to for storage).
IIfx in nice condition plus RAM alone should fetch $200+, not sure what the cards go for these days.
There is what looks like a 9 pin VGA card and some kind of SCSI card (probably the board the sample cells connect to for storage).
IIfx in nice condition plus RAM alone should fetch $200+, not sure what the cards go for these days.
Sniping has always annoyed me, never made sense why ebay hasn't included a feature to extend the auction by a few minutes each time a bid comes in within the last few minutes.
I figured if you can't beat em, join em though, and I've been using a sniping service for years. The way the game is set up, that's by far the best way to win. I agree with everything else here, bidding wars early on just drive up the price. Only time I bid early is to put in a lowball to discourage others from doing the same, or if I could take it or leave it, sometimes I do win.
I figured if you can't beat em, join em though, and I've been using a sniping service for years. The way the game is set up, that's by far the best way to win. I agree with everything else here, bidding wars early on just drive up the price. Only time I bid early is to put in a lowball to discourage others from doing the same, or if I could take it or leave it, sometimes I do win.
The presence of that black connector at the far end of the card is almost a sure sign that it's the interface card for a ProTools box.
The box itself is missing from the auction.
To stay off-topic. 
My eBay technique is to bid the maximum I'm willing to pay as soon as I decide I'm willing to bid. And I come to a firm conclusion on my maximum. If I place the bid, and am immediately outbid, I give up.
Then I ignore the auction until I get the "the auction is over" email.
Makes absolutely certain I don't go over my "max" amount.
I don't care if it goes for $0.01 over my maximum bid, I don't get worked up. It's likely that the other bidder was willing to make it go much higher, and I'm not out to "punish" the other bidder for outbidding me by driving their bid up artificially.
My eBay technique is to bid the maximum I'm willing to pay as soon as I decide I'm willing to bid. And I come to a firm conclusion on my maximum. If I place the bid, and am immediately outbid, I give up.
Then I ignore the auction until I get the "the auction is over" email.
Makes absolutely certain I don't go over my "max" amount.
I don't care if it goes for $0.01 over my maximum bid, I don't get worked up. It's likely that the other bidder was willing to make it go much higher, and I'm not out to "punish" the other bidder for outbidding me by driving their bid up artificially.
Exactly. Tried being a sniper and wound up overpaying for a bunch of stuff a few years ago.To stay off-topic.
My eBay technique is to bid the maximum I'm willing to pay as soon as I decide I'm willing to bid. And I come to a firm conclusion on my maximum. If I place the bid, and am immediately outbid, I give up.
Then I ignore the auction until I get the "the auction is over" email.
Makes absolutely certain I don't go over my "max" amount.
I don't care if it goes for $0.01 over my maximum bid, I don't get worked up. It's likely that the other bidder was willing to make it go much higher, and I'm not out to "punish" the other bidder for outbidding me by driving their bid up artificially.
Sometimes, it's relieving to see the "You have been outbid" message...
-J
Given the context of my posts on the subject, that was clearly a compliment! :lol:Now now. What was the forum rule about going after other members?
I don't follow that logic. Auctions at places like livestock corrals and Christies run until the the person who wants an item almost the most drops out. Is there any objection to late bidding by knowledgeable participants of such IRL auctions?
Pretty good article about auctions overall, cites emotion based objections to sniping and research on why it's the better strategy on eBay:
The article points out that letting the unwashed masses in on the true value of an auction item early on isn't good strategy.
BIN is my preference, but I'll sometimes throw out an early bid when I think nobody else is looking.
This NuBus Mac video friendly Radius/KDS LCD Monitor being a prime example. Great display for that IIfx with the right card.
I thought that connector would be either SCSI II or a box interface, couldn't decide which though. Being a Sound Production workstation, as opposed to a throughput hungry Video Production setup, I guess there's no real need for I/O faster than pathetic 68k SCSI performance. Would that be the case?
Do the extra cards in the box support additional channels? Are those Digidesign Samplecell cards a later version of my Sound Accelerator II or are they sample input only cards?
Continuing the offtopic..
Some interesting thoughts regarding the IIfx.
Since it has 2x 6502 cpus running at 10mHz managing the io devices, and apple never implemented the use of them'in the OS, I have
always wondered; can they be used in other ways using clever programming?
The original 6502 at 1 mHz wasn't that far off from a 68000, reason for this is that performing its fastest instructions only took 2 cycles,
averaging the instruction totals to around 4-5 cycles. 6502 also accessed the memory at every clockcycle. The 68000 took a full 4 cycles to access memory,
and the relatively complex instructions set needed an average of 14-15 cycles/instruction. Running at 8mHz it kept its distance to the 6502s measly 1 , but
clocking 6502 at 10Mhz might change the game (Its 10X the speed of a apple II thats using the same chip as main cpu). Since the 6510 used in Atari and commodore
are a derivative of the 6502, there are loads of programming experience.
And since C64 with only 64Kb memory could do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So-m4NUzKLw (Demo starts around 8min 40s) you don't need a lot
of memory either. Pretty impressive!
Some interesting thoughts regarding the IIfx.
Since it has 2x 6502 cpus running at 10mHz managing the io devices, and apple never implemented the use of them'in the OS, I have
always wondered; can they be used in other ways using clever programming?
The original 6502 at 1 mHz wasn't that far off from a 68000, reason for this is that performing its fastest instructions only took 2 cycles,
averaging the instruction totals to around 4-5 cycles. 6502 also accessed the memory at every clockcycle. The 68000 took a full 4 cycles to access memory,
and the relatively complex instructions set needed an average of 14-15 cycles/instruction. Running at 8mHz it kept its distance to the 6502s measly 1 , but
clocking 6502 at 10Mhz might change the game (Its 10X the speed of a apple II thats using the same chip as main cpu). Since the 6510 used in Atari and commodore
are a derivative of the 6502, there are loads of programming experience.
And since C64 with only 64Kb memory could do this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So-m4NUzKLw (Demo starts around 8min 40s) you don't need a lot
of memory either. Pretty impressive!
That's why I use Ezsniper. I paste in the item number and my max bid, set and forget. The Ezsniper service puts in a bid for me in the last few seconds of the auction and either I win or I don't. I don't have to be home, I don't even have to leave my computer on. The snipe does cost something like 1% of the final value fee but only if I win. I've been using it since 2005 with good results and unless ebay makes what I would consider a sensible move to combat sniping by extending the auction when late bids come in, I'll continue to use that method.
If someone could find a way to shoehorn some Apple II ROMs onto a Nubus card that could talk with the 6502's, you could have a dual processor zip chip equipped Apple //e inside your Mac IIfx... Imagine playing Rampage on it.
-J
-J
There is space to put Apple II ROMs on a custom ROM SIMM at which point they are accessible by the main CPU. I have no idea how those 6502s are wired up though, they may not be usable unless they can access the system ROM and RAM. There's a lot more to an Apple II than the CPU chip.
Yep, that's very true. Might have to build a hacked version of the Apple IIe card that uses the processors on the motherboard, instead of the one on the card... Not sure how that would be done, or if it's even possible.
-J
-J
Since they're I/O coprocessors, they're likely too embedded into inaccessible niches of the block diagram for use as CPUs of any kind. Dunno, that's just a WAG on my part.
If you're willing to believe Wikipedia,
The Guide doesn't specifically address the issue of what microprocessor is on the IOP die, but it was common knowledge that they were 6502s. The first reviews of the IIfx in the Mags all mentioned them IIRC.Apple said:
Found this information:
Annnnnnd it's sold for ~$360
i guess it was not as valuable as i thought it would be
i was thinking 1.3 to 1.6k for some strange reason.
i was thinking 1.3 to 1.6k for some strange reason.
It went for about what I figured. The IIfx in decent condition with full RAM is around $250ish. I don't think the cards are worth that much.
Eight bids stuffed in 15 seconds, driving the price up the price by $211 by two people locked in a bidding war and both to lose to some other schmuck who only bid only once in the very last possible second and whose history says he's been doing this a lot.
Yeah, the Avid cards seem to be going for about $40-$60 BIN on evilBay...
-J
-J
Well, for the money it went for, I would have been interested. Soundcards or not, a IIfx with maxed out Ram in good condition is very difficult to find. Overseas shipping + import taxes would have driven the price up to $500+ though.
Yes it went for a small amount of money compared to what was being offered. It is too bad a sniper got it but thats how ebay works really.
The Samplecell is a hardware audio sample playback engine with a Mac GUI front end. It takes the place of a hardware sampler in music production. It has 8 audio outs, but no ins: it is not a recording card. They made Nubus Mac, PCI Mac and PCI PC versions.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_articles/nov95/samplecell2.html
Nowadays most of that functionality would be done in software, using the computer's CPU for the grunt work, and any old soundcard or built-in audio for the IO.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1995_articles/nov95/samplecell2.html
Nowadays most of that functionality would be done in software, using the computer's CPU for the grunt work, and any old soundcard or built-in audio for the IO.
Post deleted as further reading in the thread made it irrelevant. Was about the 6502 co-processors, but the quote above by John_A superceded my speculation on what code the 6502s run off of.
Interestingly, from the description posted above, it sounds like the IIfx CPU must load the driver for the 6502 in the IOP every time the machine boots up. Otherwise there's no code in the 32K of RAM which the 6502 uses for instruction memory. I would have assumed that there was a mask ROM in there, but I guess not.
Interestingly, from the description posted above, it sounds like the IIfx CPU must load the driver for the 6502 in the IOP every time the machine boots up. Otherwise there's no code in the 32K of RAM which the 6502 uses for instruction memory. I would have assumed that there was a mask ROM in there, but I guess not.
This is what I do as well, with a different service.
The rational thing to do at any auction is to pick the maximum that you're willing to pay for an item and stick to it. However, you must reckon with other people who are not rational.
If you bid your maximum early, then the irrational bidders will come along and bid $.50 more than the current price, until they outbid you. Whereas, if you wait to place your bid until the last moment, they never have a chance to do that. When you snipe, you are only competing against the other folks who have placed a rational maximum bid, and not the irrational +$.50 'ers.
The +$.50'ers never get a chance, if everyone snipes at the end.
Finally tried AuctionSniper out. Yes, it worked to my advantage. Got a few pieces of Nikon gear for much less than I normally would've paid for it (35/2 Nikkor for $33+ship, nice late model Nikon F body for $76+ship, and a 300/4.5 EDIF Nikkor for $53+tax). So, yeah, I'm a convert. There are still items that I will bid the normal way, but those are now items that there won't be much competition on. More desirable items, I will use a sniping service. Either the one I started using, or another.
-J
But sniping services don't give you the heart pounding adrenaline rush of actually being online and placing your bid inside the last 3 seconds for the win. }
I think some folks get addicted to it, then end up with way more junk then what they should have
Personally I hate it. - manly because it makes me sick… and IF its something that i care that much if i win or not, means that probably it will involve some kind of rental from uhaul and a trip across the country
I never snipe. I don't always win what I bid on but when I do it is usually below the normal going rate.
< Soapbox mode >
I posted this link earlier in the thread, but made the mistake of using the tag instead of so I'll give it another go.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction_sniping
In casual synopsis: it boils down to sniping being a mechanism that turns an irrational bidding war scenario into a sealed bid auction. I like it because it keeps me from bidding any more than I'd really like to spend on an item and, yes, the thrill of the snipe outweighs any disappointment at losing the auction for me.
I only wish we could see how much the winner was actually willing to spend in eBay auctions. Throwing out what appear to be irrationally high bids that may result form the winning bidder with a need for that one piece to complete a collection, would be a far better indication of an items worth statistically than an analysis of the data available.
Let's face it, we're pretty much all "thrifty" collectors here and we do each other the generous favor of listing goodies in the Trading Post, but those "eBay prices" are very likely a more true reflection of an item's worth than our preconceived notions and wishful thinking.
< /Soapbox mode >
I've always loved Sy Syms' slogan: "An educated consumer is our best customer."
. . . whatever.
I posted this link earlier in the thread, but made the mistake of using the tag instead of so I'll give it another go.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction_sniping
The beginning of that section explains that "Economic analysis of sniping (Roth and Ockenfels, 2000[3]) suggests that sniping is a rational gain-maximizing (i.e., price-minimizing) strategy for bidders in auctions" It's a great read, explaining much about objections to sniping and auction types overall.In this snippet said:
In casual synopsis: it boils down to sniping being a mechanism that turns an irrational bidding war scenario into a sealed bid auction. I like it because it keeps me from bidding any more than I'd really like to spend on an item and, yes, the thrill of the snipe outweighs any disappointment at losing the auction for me.
I only wish we could see how much the winner was actually willing to spend in eBay auctions. Throwing out what appear to be irrationally high bids that may result form the winning bidder with a need for that one piece to complete a collection, would be a far better indication of an items worth statistically than an analysis of the data available.
Let's face it, we're pretty much all "thrifty" collectors here and we do each other the generous favor of listing goodies in the Trading Post, but those "eBay prices" are very likely a more true reflection of an item's worth than our preconceived notions and wishful thinking.
< /Soapbox mode >
I've always loved Sy Syms' slogan: "An educated consumer is our best customer."
. . . whatever.
Some might disagree with me, but I wait until 5 seconds out, have my top bid plus $5 entered, and give it a crack. I've gotten some absolute bargains over the years, and also been outbid too. At those times, I might have entered another bid, but it also keeps me paying more than my rational self wants to pay.
Very wise words! I don't like the feeling I get at the final seconds much either, though I can see how some (many?) can feel pleasure from it.I think some folks get addicted to it, then end up with way more junk then what they should have
Personally I hate it. - manly because it makes me sick… and IF its something that i care that much if i win or not, means that probably it will involve some kind of rental from uhaul and a trip across the country
I have similar feelings, though I've come to terms with the fact that some items I might want (at a price that I'm willing to pay) are oftentimes in auction format, so I've given in and bid on a couple of things.
My preference is still BIN if at all possible, though.
I try to be mindful of how much I have vs. how much I want because I don't want to be a hoarder (I've seen some of the worst of them, and it's no fun at all), but even then, I sometimes get impulsive and end up with extra junk (like a big box full of 867 MHz 12" PowerBook G4s in which all the logic boards are mostly nonfunctional).
With all this talk of buying stuff, I should try selling some stuff on eBay... maybe I could get a few dollars from some of my "junk".
c