Thread
New ImageWriter II Color Ribbons
Hi folks.
As you all know many of the existing color IW II ribbons are unusable because the foam rollers have deteriorated. I find it a bit sad that the IW II can't be used for color printing anymore.
I was looking around and I found an interesting Chinese site:
http://www.flower-pr.com/apple-printer-ribbon/
http://www.flower-pr.com/order.php?selects[]=282&action=add
They claim to be able to produce NEW IW II ribbons with your choice of either felt or gear rollers. They also offer a choice of different ink colors that are different from the original Apple specs. (It's interesting although that wouldn't be very useful.)
I am considering contacting them and talking to them about what the minimum order would be. It seems like with the gear driven ones they would last indefinitely because the ink won't dry as long as they stay sealed.
Thoughts?
As you all know many of the existing color IW II ribbons are unusable because the foam rollers have deteriorated. I find it a bit sad that the IW II can't be used for color printing anymore.
I was looking around and I found an interesting Chinese site:
http://www.flower-pr.com/apple-printer-ribbon/
http://www.flower-pr.com/order.php?selects[]=282&action=add
They claim to be able to produce NEW IW II ribbons with your choice of either felt or gear rollers. They also offer a choice of different ink colors that are different from the original Apple specs. (It's interesting although that wouldn't be very useful.)
I am considering contacting them and talking to them about what the minimum order would be. It seems like with the gear driven ones they would last indefinitely because the ink won't dry as long as they stay sealed.
Thoughts?
UPDATE: I have worked with the factory and we have reached an agreement. I've paid them and they are preparing to manufacture some new ImageWriter color ribbons. These are probably going to be the first ImageWriter ribbons manufactured in a decade.
When they get through customs and such and I verify that they are quality I will post a "For Sale" thread on the Trading Post. Right now, based on the cost per unit + taxes/duties and such that I estimate a price of $7.25 + shipping per ribbon cartridge.
If all goes well the IW II shall print in color once again!
When they get through customs and such and I verify that they are quality I will post a "For Sale" thread on the Trading Post. Right now, based on the cost per unit + taxes/duties and such that I estimate a price of $7.25 + shipping per ribbon cartridge.
If all goes well the IW II shall print in color once again!
Many black ribbons used a plastic gear mechanism for advancing the ribbon. This mechanism didn't deteriorate like the felt rollers inside the color ribbons. In making these new ones I have specifically asked the factory to make them with the gear drive instead of felt rollers so they will last longer in storage. Since I had a say in manufacturing process I figured it would be stupid to repeat a design that we now know was a bad idea.
It is possible to have them make black ones as well. They actually offered a color choice for the single-color ones and if needed can make the ribbons print in a color other than black. That seems like it would be kinda cool but not worth spending the money do have different colors made at this point.
You are correct that ribbons are still being manufactured for impact printers although I don't think they are being made specifically for ImageWriters anymore. Having said that, you can buy new black ribbons for these printers on eBay for a couple dollars a piece. They are so cheap that it doesn't make financial sense to have them manufactured again until the supply is exhausted (which is the case with the color ones.)
There are three reasons (that I know of) for black ribbons still being easy to find:
1. Black ribbons were more widely distributed, manufactured in MUCH greater numbers and had much higher demand. Nearly every office supply store in the 1990s was guaranteed to have black ImageWriter ribbons. That's a big supply. Color ribbons were pretty expensive when they were new and they were a niche product even then. On a recent episode of the RetroMacCast John talked about how he was the color re-inking guy for his local computer club. The color ribbons were so expensive that they would bring their spent ribbons to him to be re-inked rather than buy new ones.
2. Apple never officially released a color driver for the ImageWriter II. Only Apple II users could natively print in color on the IW II and late in the life of the printer Apple IIs were fading and Macs were on the rise. Yes, there is a third party driver but at the time you had to pay for it and most people didn't. Chances are, if you went to buy a ribbon for an IW II, it was a black one.
3. For some reason many of the black ribbons used the gear drive instead of the felt rollers. This makes them more reliable and less susceptible to failure over time. Therefore, if you find a stack of black ribbons that are still sealed, they will probably still work like new. (This is not the case for color.) I have no idea why these used gears and the color used rollers. I'd love to hear from an engineer to figure out why there is this design difference.
I recently bought some black ribbons off Amazon ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005G7UQ6K). They work very well. I wonder the date of manufacture. Anyway I will be interested in the color versions! Yay!
Is there a way to have an IWII connect via Mac serial-to-USB converter for use on a modern machine?
If so, I may totally do this, if only for the novelty (and because I have two perfectly good ImageWriter II's rotting and collecting dust in my workshed that I would like to get some use out of).
EDIT: Incidentally, the type of paper the IWII uses natively is still available somewhat inexpensively, which is good if one has any need for such things (and besides, what good are your nice, new color ribbons without decent paper?!)
c
If so, I may totally do this, if only for the novelty (and because I have two perfectly good ImageWriter II's rotting and collecting dust in my workshed that I would like to get some use out of).
EDIT: Incidentally, the type of paper the IWII uses natively is still available somewhat inexpensively, which is good if one has any need for such things (and besides, what good are your nice, new color ribbons without decent paper?!)
c
Yeah, and here is a driver:
http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/openprinting/macosx/imagewriter
Here is a video of someone getting an IW II to print from an iPad!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvpRIn10Mcw
Yes. Also, tractor-feed labels are available on Amazon and printing them on an IW II is incredibly cheap. It costs about 1/5th what it costs to use a Dymo label maker.
The Mac Imagewriter driver was never updated to print in color? That would be surprising considering the Imagewriter LQ driver could print in color and was a backwards compatible printer (extended the IW II ESC command set), but good luck finding a ribbon for one of those!
The Imagewriter driver found in OS X and Linux comes from Ghostscript, that driver never had color support added to it. Ghostscript is mostly open source, so adding color support is possible. One could "borrow" code from Ghostscript's Epson LQ driver to add color support.
The Imagewriter driver found in OS X and Linux comes from Ghostscript, that driver never had color support added to it. Ghostscript is mostly open source, so adding color support is possible. One could "borrow" code from Ghostscript's Epson LQ driver to add color support.
Correct, sadly. In order to print in color you need MacPalette II.
http://www.jagshouse.com/colorimagewriter.html
That would be fantastic! I wonder how much work it would take. The IW II uses a C.ITOH printing engine so if any other related printers have color support then that code might also work.
Yeah. This is what brought me to this little international retro technology rescue adventure. I recently opened my still vacuum sealed NOS color ribbons only to find that they would print a few color lines before completely giving up. Here is a picture of the inside of a vintage NOS ribbon after unsealing it and printing:
The ribbons are here! Color, glorious dot matrix color!
The only real issue is that there was a manufacturing/reliability problem with the gear mechanism and they had to be made with foam rollers. I guess there is a manufacturing reason for so many of the color ribbons to use foam instead of the gears. Oh well.
I'll be posting a For Sale ad in the Trading Post soon.
The only real issue is that there was a manufacturing/reliability problem with the gear mechanism and they had to be made with foam rollers. I guess there is a manufacturing reason for so many of the color ribbons to use foam instead of the gears. Oh well.
I'll be posting a For Sale ad in the Trading Post soon.
I agree with techknight; it'd be nice to know *why* they reneged at the last minute like that (as I understand it, they did initially claim that they could produce color ribbons with the gear mechanism, with nothing mentioned that would suggest otherwise).
Nevertheless, foam or not, it's good to know that they're fresh, and therefore not in danger of self destructing upon first use (as is the case with most NOS ribbons).
c
Nevertheless, foam or not, it's good to know that they're fresh, and therefore not in danger of self destructing upon first use (as is the case with most NOS ribbons).
c
Update!
I spoke with the factory folks and they say that there basically is no gear version of the 4C (four color) cartridge, and at this point I believe them.
I have personally seen and know the following types exist:
- Single color (black) short form factor w/ foam (1C-FOAM)
- Single color (black) short form factor w/ gears (1C-GEAR)
- Multicolor (4C) tall form factor w/ foam (4C-FOAM)
I have never actually seen a 4C-GEAR but I figured that since 1C-GEAR exists that 4C-GEAR must. After all, the factory can make all of the types I just listed. I know that some people have managed to get ahold of working 4C cartridges. I assumed that those must have been the elusive 4C-GEAR but it’s entirely possible that these units were really 4C-FOAM that was produced late, produced from a particularly good stock or stored in ideal conditions. Apparently, though, there isn’t a 4C-GEAR. (If anyone can prove one exists, please let me know.)
So, why no 4C-GEAR?
I talked to the factory and found out that gear models are actually ideal for them to manufacture. The reason is that they mold all of the plastic parts in the factory but they can’t manufacture the foam. All of the foam they use has to be imported from another country and this increases the manufacturing difficulty and cost of the final ribbon cartridge.
Companies that make make authorized ribbon cartridges (and other consumables) use a reference design from the printer manufacturer. In this case C.Itoh (not Apple) would be the likely originator of the original reference designs. The foam vs gear issue would have been just as relevant in the 80s and 90s. As a matter of fact it was probably even more of an issue then since they were being mass produced and any cost increase would impact profits all the way down the chain. I believe that with quite a bit of money on the line that if a 4C-GEAR was viable it would have been done.
It appears as if there was some technical reason that 4C-GEAR is not an ideal design. I figure that if the manufacturers of the ImageWriter, who were actual printer engineers, decided not to use such a design that they must have a reason. Remember that the 4C is twice as tall and it’s possible that the additional height of the ribbon could cause problems with binding or possibly require more force to turn than C.Itoh engineers thought was ideal for the motor on the print head. These are just guesses. At any rate, trying to oversee the creation of a 4C-GEAR model would take quite a bit of time and money and it’s not clear if there is a real benefit at this point. It’s true that the foam used in the old stock of 4C-FOAM was a problem. We may have the same problem with these in a decade or two but there are probably bigger concerns by then. I just don’t know.
In the meantime, we do now have brand new color ribbons for the ImageWriter and for the next few years we can look forward to bringing back full color dot matrix printing to the classic Mac. I should have the Trading Post ad up this weekend.
I spoke with the factory folks and they say that there basically is no gear version of the 4C (four color) cartridge, and at this point I believe them.
I have personally seen and know the following types exist:
- Single color (black) short form factor w/ foam (1C-FOAM)
- Single color (black) short form factor w/ gears (1C-GEAR)
- Multicolor (4C) tall form factor w/ foam (4C-FOAM)
I have never actually seen a 4C-GEAR but I figured that since 1C-GEAR exists that 4C-GEAR must. After all, the factory can make all of the types I just listed. I know that some people have managed to get ahold of working 4C cartridges. I assumed that those must have been the elusive 4C-GEAR but it’s entirely possible that these units were really 4C-FOAM that was produced late, produced from a particularly good stock or stored in ideal conditions. Apparently, though, there isn’t a 4C-GEAR. (If anyone can prove one exists, please let me know.)
So, why no 4C-GEAR?
I talked to the factory and found out that gear models are actually ideal for them to manufacture. The reason is that they mold all of the plastic parts in the factory but they can’t manufacture the foam. All of the foam they use has to be imported from another country and this increases the manufacturing difficulty and cost of the final ribbon cartridge.
Companies that make make authorized ribbon cartridges (and other consumables) use a reference design from the printer manufacturer. In this case C.Itoh (not Apple) would be the likely originator of the original reference designs. The foam vs gear issue would have been just as relevant in the 80s and 90s. As a matter of fact it was probably even more of an issue then since they were being mass produced and any cost increase would impact profits all the way down the chain. I believe that with quite a bit of money on the line that if a 4C-GEAR was viable it would have been done.
It appears as if there was some technical reason that 4C-GEAR is not an ideal design. I figure that if the manufacturers of the ImageWriter, who were actual printer engineers, decided not to use such a design that they must have a reason. Remember that the 4C is twice as tall and it’s possible that the additional height of the ribbon could cause problems with binding or possibly require more force to turn than C.Itoh engineers thought was ideal for the motor on the print head. These are just guesses. At any rate, trying to oversee the creation of a 4C-GEAR model would take quite a bit of time and money and it’s not clear if there is a real benefit at this point. It’s true that the foam used in the old stock of 4C-FOAM was a problem. We may have the same problem with these in a decade or two but there are probably bigger concerns by then. I just don’t know.
In the meantime, we do now have brand new color ribbons for the ImageWriter and for the next few years we can look forward to bringing back full color dot matrix printing to the classic Mac. I should have the Trading Post ad up this weekend.