well, THAT was unexpected.
Thanks for the hint. Here's what I tried:
1. disconnect data cable from widget. left power in place, as that seems to get rerouted to the floppy.
2. restart. Try various floppies. Same thing, error 75. Which, according to a doc I found on mac mothership, could be either internal HD or the internal floppy:
===
Code Icon Symptom Solution
N/A Drive opening No diskette Insert Disk
23 Diskette Unreadable diskette Reformat disk
38 Diskette No startup file on diskette Install system
39 Diskette Drive ROM can't keep up Wrong drive ROM?
40 CPU card Memory management problem
41 CPU card Selection logic problem CPU card missing?
42 CPU card Video circuit problem
43 CPU card Parity circuit problem
44 Lisa Unexpected NMI interrupt
45 Lisa Bus error
46 Lisa Address error
47 Lisa Unexpected exception
48 Lisa Illegal instruction
49 Lisa Line 1010 or 1111 trap
50 I/O board Keyboard VIA error 6522A chip?
51 I/O board Parellel VIA error 6522A chip?
52 I/O board I/O COPS error COPS chip?
53 I/O board Keyboard COPS error COPS chip?
54 I/O board Clock error
55 I/O board Serial port A problem Z8530 chip?
56 I/O board Serial port B problem Z8530 chip?
57 I/O board Disk controller problem Lite Adapter?
58 I/O board I/O board access error
59 I/O board I/O COPS error
60 I/O board I/O or keyboard error
70 Memory board Read/write error
71 Memory board Parity error
75 Internal HD System files are damaged Reinstall System
75 External HD System files are damaged Reinstall System
75 Floppy disk System files are damaged Reinstall System
75 Expansion card System files are damaged Reinstall System
80 Internal HD Drive cable is disconnected Check cable
80 External HD Drive cable is disconnected Check cable
81 Internal HD No response from drive Adjust solenoid?
81 External HD No response from drive
82 Internal HD Drive doesn't answer
82 External HD Drive doesn't answer
83 Internal HD Other drive problems
83 External HD Other drive problems
84 Internal HD Boot blocks are damaged Low level format?
84 External HD Boot blocks are damaged Low level format?
85 Internal HD Drive can't keep up
85 External HD Drive can't keep up
90 Expansion card No card in that slot
91 Expansion card Can't start from that card
92 Expansion card Problem with the card ROM
93 Expansion card Other card problem
===
3. So then, because I'm dumb, decide only NOW that it would be a good idea to try removing the bad memory board. I had left it in after I confirmed which was the bad one, because it always had that "continue" option. Anyway, take that out, still with HD semi-disconnected, and try floppies again. This time, I get different errors! (progress?)...
I get 10726 with both the Lisa 7/7 (1 of 5) disk that came with the lisa, and the 1 of 5 disk I downloaded from the internet.
I get 10735 with Lisa Guide disk.
both of those appear to relate to issues with the boot blocks/files on the start up disk:
---
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA40202?viewlocale=en_US
Error Meaning
10725 Damaged file system or file contents
10726 Profile error, problem with boot tracks
10727 Memory Error
10728 Boot file is missing or damaged
10729 "
10730 "
10731 "
10732 "
10735 "
10736 "
10737 "
---
4. Seems like I'm getting more specific errors, so let's see if I get anything other than 75 from the Internal HD. Plug that back in. hmm. LOTS of spinning and start up time. Then... BANG! surprise: Welcome to Mac XL. bluuuurgh.
So the hard drive appears to be fine. I've never seen the Mac XL mod before, but as I understood it, it included a hardware mod that made the pixels square. They don't seem to be square to me, but maybe the Lisa only got "close to square"?
I couldn't get any floppies to register after the Mac XL part took over. I tried a 400k floppy for a mac 128k that I know is good, but it never showed up on the desktop at all. If I hadn't de-greased that eject mechanism, and had smooth floppy behavior on the Lisa-part of the startup, I would have said it was acting like a stuck floppy ejector. but I don't know... maybe it's software related?
At least I was able to start up MS Word and test the keyboard. 10 keys work, so that's good. The keyboard is not fried or anything, just needs re-padding.
Anyway, thanks for help. I think I have to decide now whether I want to try and restore it to the Lisa OS. I'll dig into that and come back again if I need some more help. I bought it with the understanding it was a Lisa 2/10, not a mac XL, but it's not like it was running when the guy sold it, so no hard feelings or anything, just a surprise.
Thanks for the hint. Here's what I tried:
1. disconnect data cable from widget. left power in place, as that seems to get rerouted to the floppy.
2. restart. Try various floppies. Same thing, error 75. Which, according to a doc I found on mac mothership, could be either internal HD or the internal floppy:
===
Code Icon Symptom Solution
N/A Drive opening No diskette Insert Disk
23 Diskette Unreadable diskette Reformat disk
38 Diskette No startup file on diskette Install system
39 Diskette Drive ROM can't keep up Wrong drive ROM?
40 CPU card Memory management problem
41 CPU card Selection logic problem CPU card missing?
42 CPU card Video circuit problem
43 CPU card Parity circuit problem
44 Lisa Unexpected NMI interrupt
45 Lisa Bus error
46 Lisa Address error
47 Lisa Unexpected exception
48 Lisa Illegal instruction
49 Lisa Line 1010 or 1111 trap
50 I/O board Keyboard VIA error 6522A chip?
51 I/O board Parellel VIA error 6522A chip?
52 I/O board I/O COPS error COPS chip?
53 I/O board Keyboard COPS error COPS chip?
54 I/O board Clock error
55 I/O board Serial port A problem Z8530 chip?
56 I/O board Serial port B problem Z8530 chip?
57 I/O board Disk controller problem Lite Adapter?
58 I/O board I/O board access error
59 I/O board I/O COPS error
60 I/O board I/O or keyboard error
70 Memory board Read/write error
71 Memory board Parity error
75 Internal HD System files are damaged Reinstall System
75 External HD System files are damaged Reinstall System
75 Floppy disk System files are damaged Reinstall System
75 Expansion card System files are damaged Reinstall System
80 Internal HD Drive cable is disconnected Check cable
80 External HD Drive cable is disconnected Check cable
81 Internal HD No response from drive Adjust solenoid?
81 External HD No response from drive
82 Internal HD Drive doesn't answer
82 External HD Drive doesn't answer
83 Internal HD Other drive problems
83 External HD Other drive problems
84 Internal HD Boot blocks are damaged Low level format?
84 External HD Boot blocks are damaged Low level format?
85 Internal HD Drive can't keep up
85 External HD Drive can't keep up
90 Expansion card No card in that slot
91 Expansion card Can't start from that card
92 Expansion card Problem with the card ROM
93 Expansion card Other card problem
===
3. So then, because I'm dumb, decide only NOW that it would be a good idea to try removing the bad memory board. I had left it in after I confirmed which was the bad one, because it always had that "continue" option. Anyway, take that out, still with HD semi-disconnected, and try floppies again. This time, I get different errors! (progress?)...
I get 10726 with both the Lisa 7/7 (1 of 5) disk that came with the lisa, and the 1 of 5 disk I downloaded from the internet.
I get 10735 with Lisa Guide disk.
both of those appear to relate to issues with the boot blocks/files on the start up disk:
---
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA40202?viewlocale=en_US
Error Meaning
10725 Damaged file system or file contents
10726 Profile error, problem with boot tracks
10727 Memory Error
10728 Boot file is missing or damaged
10729 "
10730 "
10731 "
10732 "
10735 "
10736 "
10737 "
---
4. Seems like I'm getting more specific errors, so let's see if I get anything other than 75 from the Internal HD. Plug that back in. hmm. LOTS of spinning and start up time. Then... BANG! surprise: Welcome to Mac XL. bluuuurgh.
So the hard drive appears to be fine. I've never seen the Mac XL mod before, but as I understood it, it included a hardware mod that made the pixels square. They don't seem to be square to me, but maybe the Lisa only got "close to square"?
I couldn't get any floppies to register after the Mac XL part took over. I tried a 400k floppy for a mac 128k that I know is good, but it never showed up on the desktop at all. If I hadn't de-greased that eject mechanism, and had smooth floppy behavior on the Lisa-part of the startup, I would have said it was acting like a stuck floppy ejector. but I don't know... maybe it's software related?
At least I was able to start up MS Word and test the keyboard. 10 keys work, so that's good. The keyboard is not fried or anything, just needs re-padding.
Anyway, thanks for help. I think I have to decide now whether I want to try and restore it to the Lisa OS. I'll dig into that and come back again if I need some more help. I bought it with the understanding it was a Lisa 2/10, not a mac XL, but it's not like it was running when the guy sold it, so no hard feelings or anything, just a surprise.