Thread
128k Mac Won't "Shut Down"
Because I had to remove the internal 400k drive, I am using a 128k Mac with an external drive with the original system disk that came with the machine. When I go to shut down, it doesn't give me the prompt saying it is safe to switch off the machine. Instead, the system just restarts. Does anyone know why this is?
It is a Macintosh, it cannot and will not "self-terminate".
What you could try, use ResEdit, search for the string "Shut Down", and change it to "I'll be back", then save it.
Very appropriate in my opinion.
Sorry I cannot be of more help here.
What you could try, use ResEdit, search for the string "Shut Down", and change it to "I'll be back", then save it.
Very appropriate in my opinion.
Sorry I cannot be of more help here.
sounds like the keyboard enter maybe stuck or an adb issue. I have not run one without an internal connected it maybe that also.
... does it eject the floppy before rebooting? Because I'm pretty sure how that's my 512k acts. (The "it's now safe to turn off the machine" prompt is for hard disk equipped computers.)
There is no ADB on the 128k.
And yes, if the disk ejects then this is pretty normal. There was no "Safe to turn off..." screen on the early systems.
And yes, if the disk ejects then this is pretty normal. There was no "Safe to turn off..." screen on the early systems.
The external disk doesn't eject (I just do it manually when I shut it down). Don't know if the internal one will once I get one in there. So do I just restart it and shut it down once it chimes?
... I'm *pretty sure* a Mac should automatically spit out all mounted floppies when you select the "shut down" menu item. (This in order to prevent the machine from immediately rebooting off whatever disk is present *and* avoid the problem of having a disk stuck in the machine's drive.) Again, I'd have to set it up to be sure but I'm pretty sure my 512k ejects disks when shutting down the OS regardless of whether I've booted from the internal or an external drive. (I'm sure someone here has a 128k or 512k-no-e set up so they can likewise tell you definitively.)
As my memory serves, any system/finder from 3.0 to 6.x will put up the window "It is safe to turn off your mac" and spit out your disk(s). System .97 to before System 3 will (or should) spit out your disk and reboot, so you can turn it off. But in both cases, it will, or supposed too, spit out your disks first.
The issue might be with the drive's ejection mechanism. in the very least it needs to be lubricated, at the most - fixed.
The issue might be with the drive's ejection mechanism. in the very least it needs to be lubricated, at the most - fixed.
I'll see what it does when I get an internal 400k drive to put back in there. Right now there is nothing so maybe that is confusing it.
It doesn't even try to eject the disk in the external drive. It just instantly reboots itself.
It doesn't even try to eject the disk in the external drive. It just instantly reboots itself.
Sorry if someone already pointed out the obvious, but if you are using the original system disk that came with the machine, there may not be a "shut down" command. When I run my floppies that have System 1.0 and System 1.1, there is no shut down command at all. (It freaks me out, frankly. What do you mean I'm supposed to eject the disks first and then turn off the machine WHILE IT IS STILL RUNNING? It's just weird.) I forget if System 2.0 had the Shut Down command. It was an addition to some later version of the system software.
Anyway, if you have a machine which lacks a Shut Down command, and you turn the machine off and on with the disk still in it, it will try to start up from whatever disk is inserted (whether in an external or an internal drive). If your machine has a Shut Down command, it SHOULD eject all disks when you choose Shut Down.
ETA: I do have one external hard drive that, strangely, does the thing where it tries to restart immediately after I choose a menu Shut Down command from a later version of system software. As far as I know, no floppy drive is supposed to do that.
It definitely has a shut down command. It just ignores it and decides it will restart without ejecting the disk. Perhaps it has become self aware. Or perhaps it is some anomaly with using an external 800k drive with it.
Very weird! As you mentioned before, it might have something to do with not having an internal drive that is confusing it.
My oldest machines are a 512Ke and a Mac Plus. They are fine with having an internal 800K drive (as one would expect with that generation) but who knows what is going on with the 128K.
Have you tried ejecting the disk, then hitting Shut Down?
No, only because its the system disk (and since I don't have an internal, its the only disk thats in)
Even though its the system disk, I wonder if you can still hit Shut Down without it in the drive?
Restart should be able to eject the disks.
If not, then you eject the disks (dragging them to the trash or hi-lighting them and press Apple-E {for both}, Apple-1 {for the internal drive} or Apple-2 {for the external drive}) and then turn it off through the switch in the back.
If not, then you eject the disks (dragging them to the trash or hi-lighting them and press Apple-E {for both}, Apple-1 {for the internal drive} or Apple-2 {for the external drive}) and then turn it off through the switch in the back.
Never shut down with a disk inside. Shutting down the switch in the back sends a momentary spike through the system, which is often and mostly harmless. But this spike does travel to the floppy drives and to its head(s) and motors. Though the motors will make the drive like it's giving one last small spasm, it is the spike to the head that can cause corruption to the floppy disk over time.
Except in this machine when it doesn't!
I tried ejecting it by both using the eject command and the drag to the trash method and it says it can't be ejected since it is the system disk. I suppose I could manually eject it before using the shut down command but that seem like something that might make the computer angry.
Yeah, I wouldn't force an eject with the system on, that could spell all sorts of trouble.
So, wait, you're actually sticking a pin in the eject hole to "manually eject"?
I booted up my 128k from an external drive (A9M0106) using the MacWrite disk, System 2.0, Finder 4.1. The shutdown command most definitely ejects the disk before restarting. I can also eject the disk by choosing File -> Eject, no complaints from the system.
Very interesting. I'm assuming yours has an internal drive? Maybe it has something to do with that? Maybe its an undocumented bug, no one ever tested the scenario in the 128k because they never thought anyone would run a Mac with an external drive and no internal drive?
Ok, so to test it, I re-connected the internal floppy drive to see if having it disconnected was the issue. Its nonfunctioning (it just automatically ejects disks when one is inserted) so I still have to boot up from the external 800k drive.
Still will not give me the "It is now safe to turn off your macintosh" prompt and just restarts. The 800k drive did *try* to eject the disk when it restarted, so the non-ejection issue could be a problem with the 800k drive.
I am still perplexed why this Mac, running System 2/Finder 4.1, just restarts automatically instead of shutting down...
Still will not give me the "It is now safe to turn off your macintosh" prompt and just restarts. The 800k drive did *try* to eject the disk when it restarted, so the non-ejection issue could be a problem with the 800k drive.
I am still perplexed why this Mac, running System 2/Finder 4.1, just restarts automatically instead of shutting down...
Nope, I just tried a different 800k drive that I know ejects disks fine, and still no ejection. Just restart + instaboot off the disk it didn't eject...
Maybe this is an issue with booting a Mac 128k off an 800k drive? Does someone have a Mac 128k that they can boot off an external 800k drive and see what it does when you shut down?
Is it possible there is something wrong with the ROM in this machine?
Maybe this is an issue with booting a Mac 128k off an 800k drive? Does someone have a Mac 128k that they can boot off an external 800k drive and see what it does when you shut down?
Is it possible there is something wrong with the ROM in this machine?
Yes. Here is my current situation:
(1) I have a Mac 128k with ROMs 342-0220-B/342-0221-B
(2) The internal floppy drive is non-functioning, so I removed it pending replacement.
(3) As a result, I can only use the machine using one of my two external 800k drives. The machine boots fine into System 2.0/Finder 4.1 (using the stock disk that came with the machine).
(4) When I go to the "Shut Down" command under the "Special" menu, the computer instantly restarts and reloads the disk without ever ejecting it.
(5) Thus, I have been forced to just press the power button after the chime and then manually eject the disk with a paperclip from the 800k drive.
So far, I have tested whether it was the absence of the floppy drive by plugging in the 400k internal drive (but not using it). The machine still did the same thing.
It will not eject the 800k drive. The 128k original ROMS dont know how to trigger the drive to do so.
Oh, well there is that problem! Haha, thanks Unity!
Now I just need to figure out why it decides to auto-restart instead of shutting down!
Cause it cant. There is no issue. Its doing what its designed to do.
But my external is an 800k drive, and it ejects? Sounds strange that 'Apple 3.5" External' (A9M0106) can eject but 'Macintosh 800k' (M0131) can not?
That sounds fishy to me as well. The eject command is electrically the same on the 400 and 800k drives, and I likewise know that my 64k ROM 512K will eject the disk before rebooting if booted from an M0106. I can't boot with my particular M0131 because it has the earlier 800k mechanism that triggers the divide-by-zero Sad Mac bug in the 64k ROM. But if you have one with the later 800k mechanism that basically adds "noise" to the TACH line it should behave like an M0106.
Honestly I wonder if something is borked with your disk controller. Can you swap disks at all? (IE, does soft eject EVER work?) Again, correct me if I'm wrong here, but on a Mac you should be able to drag the SYSTEM DISK to trash to eject it and put in a program disk; doing so creates a sort of "phantom" alias to the ejected system disk to basically remind you that the system will ask for it back later. If this wasn't possible a single drive Mac would essentially be useless.
So I put in the system disk and then tried the "Eject Disk" option under the "file" menu. The icon of the disk looked like it was ejected (i.e., the shadow-ed outline of a disk) for about 3 seconds but then reloaded without the drive doing anything. This happens both with the original disk and a copy of the system disk I made.
Yeah, so there's definitely something wrong. I seem to recall from another thread that you have a Plus, do the drives behave properly on that? (If you disconnect any SCSI hard drive a Plus should behave essentially identically to a 128k if you boot it with your System 2.0 floppies, does it eject the disks before rebooting?)
That is a great question -- I will test it. I know that the Plus under System 6.0.8 ejects disks out of the external 800k drives, no problem. I will report back tomorrow!
Ah HA! I tried booting off the same system disk from the same drive, but attached to my Mac Plus. It did the same thing -- no ejection of the disk, and auto-restart.
If I boot the Mac Plus off the HD20 with System 6.0.8, when I shut it down it ejects any disk in the external drive and gives me the "It is now safe to turn off your Macintosh" prompt.
So it must just be an early system/finder thing with external drives...
Interesting. Sounds like some damage specific to that disk or disk/drive combo. Have you tried a different disc?
If you boot that old disk in the Plus' internal drive does it eject the disk before restarting? Again, to be clear, this behavior is by no means normal.
Tried it with two different disks -- a MacPaint copy I made yesterday and a copy of Superpaint. Both did the same thing as with the original system disk: (1) going command+E or file--> eject made the icon shadow out and the drive made sounds like it was doing something, but no ejection.
Shutting down resulted in a restart with no attempt to eject the disk.
This happens with both versions of the 800k drives.
Uniserver says these original ROMs can't eject 800k disks. However some of you have said you have been able to eject, no problem.
So while the "auto restart" seems normal based on what I have heard of people using this system/finder configuration, I'm still at a loss for the ejection issue.
Shutting down resulted in a restart with no attempt to eject the disk.
This happens with both versions of the 800k drives.
Uniserver says these original ROMs can't eject 800k disks. However some of you have said you have been able to eject, no problem.
So while the "auto restart" seems normal based on what I have heard of people using this system/finder configuration, I'm still at a loss for the ejection issue.
I would like to know the basis of this statement. As stated earlier, the reason that (at least some) non-A9M0106 800k drives don't work without the HD-20 init is the TACH/divide-by-zero ROM problem which is completely unrelated to "how an eject happens". I just set up my 512k to make *sure* my memory wasn't faulty and I can confirm that an attached A9M0106 behaves identically to an internal drive. IE, I can boot from it, I can remove it and swap in a different disk using the "Eject" item on the "File" menu (I did mis-remember that you could also drag it to the trash, that's what triggers the "you can't throw the system disk away" message), and it auto-ejects the floppy before rebooting when you request a shutdown. I ran the whole drill on both the internal and external drives and the behavior was 100% identical. For the tests I used two different System 2.0/Finder 4.1 floppies (with "MacPaint" and "MacWrite" on them) and the HD-20 init was definitely *not* loaded.
When you tried your System 2.0 floppies on your Plus' *internal* drive did it also refuse to eject them during shutdown? To be clear, when you ran these tests with the external drives on your Plus were the drives directly attached to the Plus, or were they chained off the HD-20? I don't know why the latter might make a difference but just trying to kill some variables.
I'm going to throw a genuinely stupid idea out there: *if* the eject-before-shutdown doesn't work on the Plus' internal drive either I'm going to have to say I wonder if there might be some sort of virus on these boot floppies that's messing with the system. Viruses were actually a depressingly common problem in the Mac's early days.
Booting the Mac Plus up with the System 2.0 disk in the internal drive, the Mac Plus ejects it on shut down. Later this evening I will try the externals plugged directly into the Plus (instead of daisy chained through the HD20)
So did you ever try it on the Plus with the external disks directly connected instead of chained through the HD20?
Yes - One drive it doesn't eject (I think it's clear that drive has a problem with its eject mechanism). The other one ejects fine.
So, for the sake of closure: I got a repaired 400k internal drive and it ejects on shut down just fine 
Thanks for the update.
FYI, I think it was System 4.0 that introduced the Shutdown Manager. Anything older just ejects the floppies and reboot.