Thread
HELP WITH MACINTOSH PERFORMA 200 BOOT UP
Hello Guys,
I have a Macintosh Performa 200, it has a good power supply, Hard drive, CRT.. everything is okay with it except the logic board.
The logic board has leaking capacitors, I have replaced them all with good quality ones, the motherboard has been soaked in battery distilled water for a whole night and cleaned thoroughly. the ram and SIMMS chips have been re-seated properly. even after doing all this, when the macintosh is fired up, it only shows scrambled black and white vertical lines with no start up sound. i have left this macintosh turned on for a while to see if it actually came back to its normal system display but it just stays like that forever. I have also heated the motherboard on a very low heat range with a heat gun to make sure all the solder joints are refreshed.
everything I could think off and found on the internet has been done with it but its still not come back to its normal lifestyle.
I have even also tried different RAM chips to see if thats the case but its still not helped.. what I am suspecting is that maybe the SIMMS chips are whats fiddling about. Do you guys think thats the case? I don't see any other issue with the logic board.. even if it was any solder joints, that would've been correct with the heat gun.. i really think its the SIMMS chips..
You must be think if i know the problem then why am i posting this issue here, the thing is i am not quite sure what SIMMS chips i can replace this with.. I have a working macintosh classic ii, SE, Macintosh Plus...
your help would be really appreciated.
THANK YOU in advance
See the images attached..
View attachment 4897
View attachment 4898
I have a Macintosh Performa 200, it has a good power supply, Hard drive, CRT.. everything is okay with it except the logic board.
The logic board has leaking capacitors, I have replaced them all with good quality ones, the motherboard has been soaked in battery distilled water for a whole night and cleaned thoroughly. the ram and SIMMS chips have been re-seated properly. even after doing all this, when the macintosh is fired up, it only shows scrambled black and white vertical lines with no start up sound. i have left this macintosh turned on for a while to see if it actually came back to its normal system display but it just stays like that forever. I have also heated the motherboard on a very low heat range with a heat gun to make sure all the solder joints are refreshed.
everything I could think off and found on the internet has been done with it but its still not come back to its normal lifestyle.
I have even also tried different RAM chips to see if thats the case but its still not helped.. what I am suspecting is that maybe the SIMMS chips are whats fiddling about. Do you guys think thats the case? I don't see any other issue with the logic board.. even if it was any solder joints, that would've been correct with the heat gun.. i really think its the SIMMS chips..
You must be think if i know the problem then why am i posting this issue here, the thing is i am not quite sure what SIMMS chips i can replace this with.. I have a working macintosh classic ii, SE, Macintosh Plus...
your help would be really appreciated.
THANK YOU in advance
See the images attached..
View attachment 4897
View attachment 4898
Was the board washed before or after the caps were replaced?
And the electrolytic can caps on the board, you replaced those or those were original, and were they washed?
If you soaked the board with those caps on the board, then they have shorted out and needs to be replaced. 24 hours for a board washing is too long, and could have shorted out those caps. A washing should be 10 - 15 minutes, a 1/2 hour tops. Then after washing, the water should be chased out with acetone and alcohol and then blown dry with compressed air (best) or a hair blow dryer set to high.
Also, remove the ROMs from the socket and look at sockets and blow dry that.
And the electrolytic can caps on the board, you replaced those or those were original, and were they washed?
If you soaked the board with those caps on the board, then they have shorted out and needs to be replaced. 24 hours for a board washing is too long, and could have shorted out those caps. A washing should be 10 - 15 minutes, a 1/2 hour tops. Then after washing, the water should be chased out with acetone and alcohol and then blown dry with compressed air (best) or a hair blow dryer set to high.
Also, remove the ROMs from the socket and look at sockets and blow dry that.
Yeah the motherboard was washed with the capacistors removed :. I did dry it up with a fan left on it for 2 hours and then with a blower and a heat gun.. So no chance of it being still wet.. I removed the ram and SIMMS chip plus the battery aswell
I dishwashed my P200 board, then rinsed it with purified water, then put it on a piece of cardboard and put it in the over for 2 hours at 200F.
Water can still be in there, like under the chips where space is tight. Alcohol can chase the water out, but I'm thinking what other damage a drowned board can have. These are 4 to 6 layer boards, and this can have other issues like the board pulling itself apart at the seams from the water that seeped in between the microscopic cracks, or traces broken as the board expanded while it was going out for a long swim.
360alaska has a good idea but I do not know if this late in the game it would work for you. Best you can do it try it out.
360alaska has a good idea but I do not know if this late in the game it would work for you. Best you can do it try it out.
Hi Rollermanz, I'm not sure where you got this advice but I reckon you've hosed the board (literally, sorry to say!) by sitting it in water for hours on end. Any water used to "wash" a PCB should be promptly taken away then allowed days of drying time to properly remove any remnants left behind. Personally I don't like the "wash" method unless you have nothing to lose, I'd prefer to manually clean the board using isopropyl alcohol wipes/spray with the idea that it'll quickly evaporate once any capacitor goo has been removed.The logic board has leaking capacitors, I have replaced them all with good quality ones, the motherboard has been soaked in battery distilled water for a whole night and cleaned thoroughly. the ram and SIMMS chips have been re-seated properly. even after doing all this, when the macintosh is fired up, it only shows scrambled black and white vertical lines with no start up sound. i have left this macintosh turned on for a while to see if it actually came back to its normal system display but it just stays like that forever. I have also heated the motherboard on a very low heat range with a heat gun to make sure all the solder joints are refreshed.
Also using a heat gun at very low heat range isn't going to do a thing to "refresh" solder I'm sorry to say.
JB
I forgot to mention that I first took the old leaky capacistors off and put the new ones on, i then tried it on and it showed the scrambled vertical lines .. So i thought maybe washing it up would be a good idea .. So this shows that soaking it in water didnt make it any worse, its jus been the same ..before i washed it up, i tried it on with new capacistors and tried it after washing with the same capacistors ..
Also i have soaked around 8 motherboards in the past and they all worked fine this way .. And always dried them up with a blower and a fan for hours .. It always worked out like that
Also i have soaked around 8 motherboards in the past and they all worked fine this way .. And always dried them up with a blower and a fan for hours .. It always worked out like that
Ok. Look for bad traces, may need to check for point to point continuity.
Goo can eat right through them. Also look for uniservers thread and make sure polarity is correct. Some silks teens have been found to be incorrect.
Reseat any chips that are socketed as corrosion can cause issues also.
Goo can eat right through them. Also look for uniservers thread and make sure polarity is correct. Some silks teens have been found to be incorrect.
Reseat any chips that are socketed as corrosion can cause issues also.
Will it boot up properly with the RAM removed?
The other obvious question would be whether the recap was done right, but it sounds like you know what you are doing in that department.
The other obvious question would be whether the recap was done right, but it sounds like you know what you are doing in that department.
I just tried it with the RAM chips removed, but it still shows the same vertical lines screen.. I am sure its the SIMMS CHIPS.. Do you guys not think so ??
Well in your photo after recap there looks to bet "wet goo" spots in the areas by the capacitors.
Its kind of the reason we keep mentioning caps. i have had to use needles and screwdrivers to scrape some of it off from years of leakage.
Its kind of the reason we keep mentioning caps. i have had to use needles and screwdrivers to scrape some of it off from years of leakage.
When you're use a distilled water bath, do you add a base (ammonia) to it to neutralise the acid?
Water only will not remove the dried acid on the print board that easily. A warm bath is also working much better than a cold one.
After the bad, an air duster can, or even a bicycle air pump (with a balloon valve for example) can be used to chase the water that stays under the chips, ROM sockets, CPU and the expansion slot.
I had very good results with these methods.
Water only will not remove the dried acid on the print board that easily. A warm bath is also working much better than a cold one.
After the bad, an air duster can, or even a bicycle air pump (with a balloon valve for example) can be used to chase the water that stays under the chips, ROM sockets, CPU and the expansion slot.
I had very good results with these methods.
Just bake it dude!
There are no marks of water, whats on the board looking like water is some bits of the flux nt water .. But water wouldnt show scrambled screen.. Im quite sure its the SIMMS.. How can i sort out the SIMMS CHIPS.. Thanks
have not seen bad chipson these.
Bad traces, bad solder joints, left over goo, left over flux and pins that are disconnected due to rot from goo.
Bad traces, bad solder joints, left over goo, left over flux and pins that are disconnected due to rot from goo.
Like 360alasks says, "bake it." But also look at ever trace with a magnifying glass and visually inspect the board! See it there are bad/rotted traces, pads and connections. Check with a multimeter, even a good looking trace could be bad. Fix what you find.
So how long should i bake it for?
10 min at 400 when I do mine then shut off and open door to air cool slowly.
Okay
Do 2 hours at 200F... And really, the best thing to do would have been to removed the old caps, put it in the dishwasher, rinse it with distilled water, put it in the over for 2 hours at 200f on a piece of cardboard and then solder on new caps...
I disagree with 10 minutes at 400F, sounds like it might heat shock the board and cause other issues
Guys to be honest, i am sure its not even wet.. I have washed 8 boards before and always dried them up like this and they always worked.. Im sure its not that case.. I want to know what can i do with the SIMMS CHIPS? How can i replace them and what can i replace them to ?
I do the 400 for 10 to do a safe basic reflow of unseen cracks in solder.
Just tell my the timing of the baking and i will jus follow the time then
40/60 solder melts at 368°F (186°C). Putting it into a 400°F oven will reflow the solder but it can also loosen other parts as the solder begins to flow. Timing would be tight on this if it is done: too much and parts begin to get loose, shift about and fall off; too little and nothing happens. You can also fry your chips at this temp if left too long.
200°F sounds better, but its not hot enough to reflow the solder. It will chase out any and all moisture from the board. And at long exposure it wont cook the chips.
200°F sounds better, but its not hot enough to reflow the solder. It will chase out any and all moisture from the board. And at long exposure it wont cook the chips.
In order to do that correctly you would need to bring the board temperature up slowly to minimize heat shock, and you might also have to apply flux on a massive scale... Furthermore, when these boards are wave soldered at the factory the smt components are glued down so hopefully that glue still holds...
The glue holding things down depends on how old it is and how much is used. I noticed in recapping some Powerbook Duos, the the least likely that glue is doing it's job on small pieces though it will be on larger pieces on older Duos (210 - 230, and at least 1 250 I've seen). On the newer PowerBook Duos (270s, 280s, 2300s) , that glue is still holding on all the pieces. This glue is red in color what what I seen.
just tell me what can I do with the SIMMS chips.. what can i replace them to ? I have a real feeling, it is them SIMMS chips whats causing the issue.
Get extra 30 pin Simms and solder on new chips.
The 30 pin sims in the slots you just pull out like normal memory.
But again have yet to see bad on board memory on these.
The 30 pin sims in the slots you just pull out like normal memory.
But again have yet to see bad on board memory on these.
What do i type in ebay to get these SIMMS chips for this