Thread
Which B&W Compact Mac is the BEST?!?
OK folks, time for an honest poll that slams them against each other, rather than just if you like the SE/30 or Classic II. I know a lot of people were commenting that they love Pluses (me too, use one almost daily for real work) so here goes...
Note this is only for B&W compacts, no Color Classics here since we all seem to love them.
Note this is only for B&W compacts, no Color Classics here since we all seem to love them.
i like them all. i voTed for classic cause its the only compact i own. :'( I´d love to get an SE/30 or (and 
) a Plus but I don´t have the $$$.
) a Plus but I don´t have the $$$.Well I think I'll vote for the only one that I own too 
The Plus is quite a nice one because it has all the charm of the originals, but is actually useable ie it has an amount of memory in which you can actually do stuff (!), has SCSI, can run OS 7 etc.
Although the SE/30 is the other strong contender for the best Compact because of it's upgradeability ie it's the only Compact Mac that can be made into quite a powerful little beast without completely rebuilding it (which doesn't count
), the upgrades for them are generally so expensive that they're inaccessible to most of us, so if you found an SE/30 it would most likely remain largely stock (also if I had one and could find upgrades for it, I'd still be too scared to open it up to install them ).
The Plus is quite a nice one because it has all the charm of the originals, but is actually useable ie it has an amount of memory in which you can actually do stuff (!), has SCSI, can run OS 7 etc.Although the SE/30 is the other strong contender for the best Compact because of it's upgradeability ie it's the only Compact Mac that can be made into quite a powerful little beast without completely rebuilding it (which doesn't count
), the upgrades for them are generally so expensive that they're inaccessible to most of us, so if you found an SE/30 it would most likely remain largely stock (also if I had one and could find upgrades for it, I'd still be too scared to open it up to install them ).I like LCs more. :-/
i voted se/30 because it does so much and does it so well. plus comes second to me.
if you added the cc i still would have voted se/30 because it is da bomb
if you added the cc i still would have voted se/30 because it is da bomb
I should have voted LC, too cause i own more LCs than compacts... LC+LCII
SE/30 FTW! the mac plus comes in at a close second though.
Without a doubt, the best is the SE/30. Just for specs alone... none of the others can touch it.
There's more to computing than specs - else this place wouldn't exist!
I judge by my assessment of a machine's contribution to the "Macintosh phenomenon"
Plus is therefore my choice.
I judge by my assessment of a machine's contribution to the "Macintosh phenomenon"
Plus is therefore my choice.
I like the Classic II. Fastest of the 1-Bit compacts, in a darned nice case.
Surely the original is the one that contributed the most to the "Macintosh phenomenon"?I judge by my assessment of a machine's contribution to the "Macintosh phenomenon"
Plus is therefore my choice.
i voted the se/30. tht machine is freaking awesome!
I love the Classic II as well - I even bought one new in 1991 or 1992, but the SE/30 is around 10% faster because it has a full 32 bit System bus.
Except it wasn't successful.Surely the original is the one that contributed the most to the "Macintosh phenomenon"?I judge by my assessment of a machine's contribution to the "Macintosh phenomenon"
Plus is therefore my choice.
I have got to say the Plus. It was my first Mac and I love its very "vintage" look in comparison to later compacts.
Guess what I voted for?
The Classic II isn't as fast as the SE/30. However, it is the second-fastest Compact, it has a modern-looking case, and they're dirt cheap nowadays while SE/30's can still command a bit of a price }
Here's my little rundown of the Classic II vs. the SE/30:
The Classic II isn't as fast as the SE/30. However, it is the second-fastest Compact, it has a modern-looking case, and they're dirt cheap nowadays while SE/30's can still command a bit of a price }
Here's my little rundown of the Classic II vs. the SE/30:
- *The Classic II and SE/30 are the only compacts with a 68030 CPU.
*The Classic II is the only compact aside from the SE/30 that runs at 16MHz.
*The Classic II is the only compact aside from the SE/30 that can take more than 4 megs of RAM.
*A new SE/30 would have set you back $4,399.
*A new Classic II would only cost you $1,899.
*Today, a decent SE/30 will set you back about $75 plus shipping.
*Today, a decent Classic II will set you back about $20 plus shipping.
*The Classic II has 2 megs of logic board RAM, while the SE/30 only has 1 meg.
*The Classic II weighs less than the SE/30, not counting any upgrades that are in the SE/30 (16 lbs and 19.5 lbs. respectively).
*The Classic II has a 512k ROM versus the 256k ROM of the SE/30.
Who cares? when you can put in up to 128mb on the se/30, and the ram's not on the logic board that's just the amount it shipped with
That's because the se/30 has a stronger/thicker internal steel frame than the whimpy classic II does.
So? the se/30 can run a wider range of OSs
Touché. On the SE/30, it's not on the logic board. However, it is on the logic board in the Classic II, meaning that you will never get one with less than 2 megs of RAM
The Classic II is a very solid computer. I've dropped mine several times (carrying it whilst eating fried chicken is NOT a good idea), and all it's suffered is a small crack in the plastic in the top corner
The SE/30 can run as far back as 6.0.3. The Classic II can still run System 6 (6.0.8L). So fine, the SE/30 can run further back, and probably a bit farther foward with more RAM. But why wouldn't you want to run 6.0.8? It's generally agreed upon to be the most stable version of System 6So? the se/30 can run a wider range of OSs
Not just early versions of system 6, but A/UX, Linux, and netBSD, and with some hackery, 8.1The SE/30 can run as far back as 6.0.3. The Classic II can still run System 6 (6.0.8L). So fine, the SE/30 can run further back, and probably a bit farther foward with more RAM. But why wouldn't you want to run 6.0.8? It's generally agreed upon to be the most stable version of System 6So? the se/30 can run a wider range of OSs
Touché. I yield this battle to the SE/30.Not just early versions of system 6, but A/UX, Linux, and netBSD, and with some hackery, 8.1The SE/30 can run as far back as 6.0.3. The Classic II can still run System 6 (6.0.8L). So fine, the SE/30 can run further back, and probably a bit farther foward with more RAM. But why wouldn't you want to run 6.0.8? It's generally agreed upon to be the most stable version of System 6So? the se/30 can run a wider range of OSs
Don't forget the data bus path...this is why an SE/30 runs faster.
To be fair though, the SE/30 is 32 bit dirty.
Moving away from our army's Civil War, I have this to say: For the looks factor, I like a Mac Plus that was upgraded from a 128K/512K. It has the look of the original Mac (and also the keyboard) with the power and expansion (SCSI) of a Plus. The illusion of running System 7.5.5 and Excel 4 on what looks to be the original Mac brings a bigger coolness factor to mind than does running that same combo on a platinum colored (not beige) SE/30, Classic II, or even a platinum Plus (though Platinum Pluses look cool).
To be fair though, the SE/30 is 32 bit dirty.
Moving away from our army's Civil War, I have this to say: For the looks factor, I like a Mac Plus that was upgraded from a 128K/512K. It has the look of the original Mac (and also the keyboard) with the power and expansion (SCSI) of a Plus. The illusion of running System 7.5.5 and Excel 4 on what looks to be the original Mac brings a bigger coolness factor to mind than does running that same combo on a platinum colored (not beige) SE/30, Classic II, or even a platinum Plus (though Platinum Pluses look cool).
The SE/30 is still faster, because the classic II is limited by a 16-bit system bus, the SE/30 is full 32-bit. Not to mention, it has an FPU standard. The classic II does support one, but they go in the expansion slot and are somewhat hard to find -- and even with one the se/30 is still fasterI like the Classic II. Fastest of the 1-Bit compacts, in a darned nice case.
Mine's not
And even the ones without a ROM upgrade, the software patch MODE32 fixes it.
How much more expensive was an LC3 and monitor compared to a comperable compact back then?
When the Classic II came out it was $1900. I'm sure it dropped quite a bit in 1993 when the Color Classic came out for $1400--I'd say a black and white Classic was roughly $1100-$1200.
An LC III with no monitor was $1350. Add the cost of your favorite monitor and you have that total. As a bonus, the LC III+ was $50 cheaper and a bit faster...but the Classic II was discontinued right around that time so it doesn't count.
The only comparable "compact" is the LC 520, which sold for $2000 and had the same guts as the LC III.
An LC III with no monitor was $1350. Add the cost of your favorite monitor and you have that total. As a bonus, the LC III+ was $50 cheaper and a bit faster...but the Classic II was discontinued right around that time so it doesn't count.
The only comparable "compact" is the LC 520, which sold for $2000 and had the same guts as the LC III.
Yeah, the SE/30 is faster. But the Classic II is the second fastest.The SE/30 is still faster, because the classic II is limited by a 16-bit system bus, the SE/30 is full 32-bit. Not to mention, it has an FPU standard. The classic II does support one, but they go in the expansion slot and are somewhat hard to find -- and even with one the se/30 is still fasterI like the Classic II. Fastest of the 1-Bit compacts, in a darned nice case.
MODE32 fixes the Classic II too. I use it on mine.Mine's not
And even the ones without a ROM upgrade, the software patch MODE32 fixes it.
Is it only the first Classic (ie not the II) that can boot from ROM?
Yes - the 1st Classic is the only macintosh model with that capability unfortunately.
Looks like I'm the only one to vote for the SE. Like most other peeps, I voted for the one I own. I'm sure the SE/30 pwnz the SE, but I like my SE FDHD lol!!
I'd like to get my mitts on something pre-SE or a colour compact Mac, like a Colour Classic.
LCs/Performas may be faster than Compacts, but they don't look so cute
I'd like to get my mitts on something pre-SE or a colour compact Mac, like a Colour Classic.
LCs/Performas may be faster than Compacts, but they don't look so cute
For me, it's the SE/30 hands down. However, many of the previous posts now have me curious for the first runner up, the Classic II. I haven't ever played with the Classic II so I can't really say (I have played with the Classic I and you can keep it ), but I do remember the SE/30 being quite fast for a compact Mac.
), but I do remember the SE/30 being quite fast for a compact Mac.SE/30. So much SPEED in System 6! I wish I had one...
The Plus...well, mine does nothing more than run the "Mandelbrot" AD screensaver since it doesn't have a KB or mouse ;-)
The Plus...well, mine does nothing more than run the "Mandelbrot" AD screensaver since it doesn't have a KB or mouse ;-)
SE/30. I just have something with FPUs.
Runner up would be the SE, with it's internal hard drive and 68000. It should be pretty compatible with archaic Mac software.
Runner up would be the SE, with it's internal hard drive and 68000. It should be pretty compatible with archaic Mac software.
You can also add an FPU to a Classic II. That internal expansion slot is perfect for them. I have one with this card, they apparently are rare.
I found it hard to choose between the SE/30 and the Classic II. They each have slight advantages in certain areas, but are more or less equal. I don't recall any upgrades being avalable for the Classic II, though, so in that regard I had to give the advantage to the SE/30.
I have three Pluses, btw. One platinum, one beige, and one that looks like a 128 or 512 that was converted using an Apple upgrade kit.
I have three Pluses, btw. One platinum, one beige, and one that looks like a 128 or 512 that was converted using an Apple upgrade kit.
SE/30 always get the most votes which aint fair. The plus is the OLDEST you can do almost everything with.
Re: Classic II vs. SE/30. The SE/30 is faster. Not just a little bit faster; much faster. The Classic II crippled the bus; unforgivable, to my taste. Add to that the fact that the FPU is built-in (don't have to hunt for a rare and expensive add-on card), and the amazing 128MB ram ceiling, the SE/30 stands head and shoulders (er, crt and disk drives?) above the Classic II.
The SE/30 remains a quite usable Mac -- it can surf ok, it supports CD burners, and has that terrific form factor. Love it, love it, love it.
But yes, I still have a great fondness for the Plus. Although it can't do nearly as many things as its far more capable younger brother, it has a certain retro charm that is difficult to resist.
The SE/30 remains a quite usable Mac -- it can surf ok, it supports CD burners, and has that terrific form factor. Love it, love it, love it.
But yes, I still have a great fondness for the Plus. Although it can't do nearly as many things as its far more capable younger brother, it has a certain retro charm that is difficult to resist.
what do you mean it wasnt succesfull ?Except it wasn't successful.Surely the original is the one that contributed the most to the "Macintosh phenomenon"?I judge by my assessment of a machine's contribution to the "Macintosh phenomenon"
Plus is therefore my choice.
it was succesfull enough to release the fatmac in 85 succesful enough to release the plus
it was succesfull enough to release the whole macintosh line with out the orginal you woudl not be here saying it was not succesfull and i woudl not be typing this on imac G5
sounds very succesfull to me
I mean it didn't sell anything like what they'd hoped, and was pretty much unusable because of the memory and other limitations. You seem to be claiming it was successful just because it had successful progeny. Not much of a criterion to employ when trying to choose between them.
The 512 was released to address deficiencies in the 128 that were holding it back from being more successful, like the low memory and the super slow hard drive port that accessed at floppy drive speeds. The Plus was released to fix further deficiencies found in the 512. The original 128 wasn't even outselling the Apple II line and the early Macs were losing money for Apple. They may have been selling, but they were still negatively impacting Apple's profits, so from that perspective, they weren't successful until after enough improvements were made to call it the Plus. You only have to look at how long the 128 and 512 models were on the market and compare them to how long the Plus was. The Plus was their longest running Mac model, ever. They wouldn't have kept selling it in the numbers they did if it was losing money, so by measures of both sales and profits, the Plus was the first really successful Mac.what do you mean it wasnt succesfull ?Except it wasn't successful.Surely the original is the one that contributed the most to the "Macintosh phenomenon"?I judge by my assessment of a machine's contribution to the "Macintosh phenomenon"
Plus is therefore my choice.
it was succesfull enough to release the fatmac in 85 succesful enough to release the plus
it was succesfull enough to release the whole macintosh line with out the orginal you woudl not be here saying it was not succesfull and i woudl not be typing this on imac G5
sounds very succesfull to me
I voted Classic II, because I have two of them, I use them all the time.
And they never let me down!
And they never let me down!
i voted SE/30
powerfull enough to run 2D CAD (vellum)
powerfull enough to run 2D CAD (vellum)
Can the Classic II accept an ethernet card? That would affect my second place ranking. If it does, then it'd be 2nd to the SE/30. If it doesn't, it'd be 3rd.
Nathan
Nathan
No. Its only built-in expansion possibility (after a smidgin of RAM) is an FPU, on a card that makes hensteeth seem common. However, with an Asanté EN/SC adapter and System 7.5 or higher, it can talk to its fellows over ethernet at a dizzying 10Mb/s. The Classic II is remembered with affection in this household as an indefatigable workhorse for four years, but the palm still has to go to the SE/30 for sheer muscle, though the Classic II wins on any assessment of looks.
de
de
The best one is clearly the one that you love most dearly. We all have a best one.