Thread

Installing Copland

68kMLA Software 39 posts Jun 13, 2007 to Aug 7, 2011

#1 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 05:36 68kMLA

I didn't want to put this in Software, because it wasn't really 68k.

I decided to try Copland on my 6100(6116, Whatever, it even says Power Macintosh on the Logic Board :

). My questions are:

1. What Mac OS do I need to have installed before hand?

2. I need actual directions on how to do this. I'm stupid.

3. What do I do for debugging? I have my Centris 650 at the ready, with a serial cable, so yeah

Any help is appreciated, and, if necessarily you can move this to the Software forums

#2 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 05:41 68kMLA

Is Copland System 7.6.1 or OS 8.x? I can't remember.

73s 8)

#3 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 05:41 68kMLA

Itt was supposed to be OS 8

#4 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 06:04 68kMLA

Here is an old@$$ thread documenting my Copland experiences, which may help.

Good luck figuring out the debugger...i never did and gave up.

#5 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 06:08 68kMLA

Try here.

73s 8)

#6 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 07:12 68kMLA

if you use copland d11e4 you shouldnt need the febugger... at least for installing and booting. on the hotline server is an installer guide on how t install copland.

#7 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 14:11 68kMLA

yeah ive already tried my luck with copeland on a powermac 7100 and gave up

#8 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 15:34 68kMLA

Huh? How is Copeland different from Mac OS? Isn't that just a codename?

#9 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 18:58 68kMLA

It was supposed to be the OS rewrite that was dumped in favor of what turned out to be OS 8.0 (slightly upgraded OS 7.x).

#10 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 19:40 68kMLA

So you can actually get a working copy of Copeland someplace?

#11 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 19:48 68kMLA

Working, but you can't really use it. If your Hot for it you can find it onLine. If you catch my drift.

#12 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 20:30 68kMLA

So you can actually get a working copy of Copeland someplace?

'copland'

#13 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 20:39 68kMLA

I believe that not much is included with the OS and I am not sure any released Apps work on it as is.

#14 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 21:50 68kMLA

if u can get it to install and then boot. i could get it installed but booting was a whole other story

#15 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 22:25 68kMLA

Right now I'm working on getting my 6100 back down to 7.5. :

Once I get theat going I'll do more

I Need to wipe the drive,but I can't get it to boot off the CD I made. It'll see it and try to install 7.5 when I am booted, but it won't install because 8.6 is on there now.

#16 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 - 23:17 68kMLA

Yikes! Copland is buggy as old hell.seeing as it's a beta (alpha?) it shouldnt need to have any preexisting Mac OS on it tho (I've installed a few betas over time and don't ever recall doing anything but clean installs).

ps..if you do a lot of testing and/or reinstalls you really should partition your drive..you'll avoid the 'won't install' bits for starters...

#17 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 - 00:01 68kMLA

if you use copland d11e4 you shouldnt need the febugger... at least for installing and booting. on the hotline server is an installer guide on how t install copland.

Yeah, you don't need the debugger with D11E4, only with D7E1. The problem with D11E4 though is that it crashes every minute on the minute, and every couple of boots, you have to reinstall the OS.

#18 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 - 11:24 68kMLA

The releases we have of Copland are "pre-alpha", and they need System 7.5 to bootstrap them. They are driver-development releases to help companies write copland drivers for their hardware. How they're supposed to do that when the system doesn't stay up for more than a couple moments is a mystery to me, but who's asking me?

Copland is totally different than any other OS that runs on Macs; it looks like MacOS 8, and it's not UNIX-based, but it sits on top of Mach (like MacOS X) and (in the versions we have) doesn't do much but show a pretty-looking boot screen (big MacOS face starts out blurry and comes into focus) and crash a lot.

The ResEdit 3.0 beta that's floating around is a native Copland application and should get the fancy Copland features (multitasking and protected memory) if and when it ever runs.

#19 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 - 16:35 68kMLA

Are there still people working on getting Copland running then?

#20 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 - 16:53 68kMLA

Are there still people working on getting Copland running then?

i guess so

#21 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 - 17:33 68kMLA

it looks like MacOS 8, and it's not UNIX-based, but it sits on top of Mach (like MacOS X)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nukernel

#22 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 - 21:06 68kMLA

it looks like MacOS 8, and it's not UNIX-based, but it sits on top of Mach (like MacOS X)

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nukernel

Touché. I guess it's just Mach-like but not UNIX.

Are there still people working on getting Copland running then?

I wouldn't say I'm working on getting it running, but I do have a 7500 that I would love to have as a triple-boot 7.5.4/Copland/Rhapsody rig. I dunno what the use would be, but it would be cool. Maybe someday I'll get around to it...

Were there any other Copland leaks besides the two we all know about? I remember a Copland CD being sold on eBay a couple years back; the seller said it was "mostly useful" which would agree with the hersay about some engineers using it day-to-day. Does anybody know what version that was?

Also, what about the build of MacOS 9 with protected memory? Does anybody have that?

#23 Thu, 21 Jun 2007 - 00:20 68kMLA

Copland on a day-to-day basis? Where did you hear that?

#24 Thu, 21 Jun 2007 - 03:56 68kMLA

On this website: http://www.bozosoft.com/copland.html

According to the OS engineer, at least a few people within Apple are using recent builds of Copland for everyday use.

#25 Thu, 21 Jun 2007 - 04:45 68kMLA

On this website: http://www.bozosoft.com/copland.html

According to the OS engineer, at least a few people within Apple are using recent builds of Copland for everyday use.

Click to expand...

Look at the date on that website. 1996! Nobody at Apple today is using Copland. Trust me.

#26 Thu, 21 Jun 2007 - 05:38 68kMLA

Igot 7.5.3 installed on the P6116. Not much loger, and I'll see

#27 Thu, 21 Jun 2007 - 16:59 68kMLA

On this website: http://www.bozosoft.com/copland.html

According to the OS engineer, at least a few people within Apple are using recent builds of Copland for everyday use.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Look at the date on that website. 1996! Nobody at Apple today is using Copland. Trust me.

Who gave you that idea?! The questions was whether or not people were using it at the time. The betas that are available to users certainly weren't usable... maybe some internal ones were better?

#28 Mon, 13 Dec 2010 - 13:54 68kMLA

Reviving zombie thread....

Does anyone know what models can run D7E1? I know the first gen (x100) PowerMacs are often mentioned, but could a 7500 handle it?

#29 Wed, 9 Feb 2011 - 02:47 68kMLA

I just managed to get D11E4 installed on my 7500. I replaced the G3 accelerator with a 150Mhz 604, initialized the hard disk with the version of Drive Setup that came with Copland (not necessary but I figured I'd do it anyway) and installed a fresh copy of 7.5.3 followed by D11E4.

Holding down Caps Lock it booted to the animated MacOS logo (very cool) and then hung to "Microkernel initialization starting...". So I hooked up my Classic II with the PowerMac Debugger (I could have used my 5400 but where's the fun in that) and tried again. The debugger came up with "Access Fault" and "No kernel stacks available!". Flummoxed for a bit I had a think and concluded that "stacks" sounded an awful lot like it was having a problem allocating memory. I had 96MB in the 7500 so I pulled out the 64Mb chip and tried again with 32MB. And this time it booted right up. It's still pretty crash-happy (and using a 68k machine with 4MB RAM with VM enabled for debugging is really not a great idea) but here's a few pics to get started. I'll switch to the 5400 tomorrow and see how many other snaps I can get.

The Setup

Ready to Install

Microkernel Booting

Apple Menu (pretty empty)

Processes

Chooser (note the OT icon)

Houston, we have a...

To somebody, this may actually mean something

#30 Wed, 9 Feb 2011 - 03:22 68kMLA

Oh my GOD you actually have it running. Does it crash after a few minutes or can you keep using it for a while? What happens if you launch regular Mac apps? What does Apple+option+escape do? I hear that there are appearance themes that work only on Copland and are not compatible with Mac OS 8.5 themes, have you tried those?

#31 Wed, 9 Feb 2011 - 03:26 68kMLA

It crashes if I even think about it. Windows redrawing slows to a crawl and then the Finder craps out. Word is that taking screenshots has this effect but that's what I'm trying to do at this early stage. I think having the debugger helps to a degree but it's painfully slow right now. However it does stay up so-to-speak. I tried without the debugger attached but it won't boot without it. I've added a couple of new pics of it in its current crashed state.

That crash ended up corrupting the hard disk so I have to wipe and reinstall. Work resumes tomorrow but here's the last pic I managed to dump. Love the System Folder icon.

#32 Wed, 9 Feb 2011 - 16:12 68kMLA

Day 2...

After doing a fresh install I can boot into it without having the debugger attached. Now it runs just as smooth as 7.5.x etc. I guess using the bare-minimum 68k machine for debugging wasn't such a good idea alright. It runs pretty well but will freeze up after taking a screenshot, requiring a reset. I checked out the 3 apps in the Mac OS 8 Applications folder. Monitors is much like the regular CP. But GXSlidemaster is pretty neat. It seems to be a QuickDraw GX-powered slideshow program. I've included some snaps taken of it in action.

I'm also using the animated "Gizmo" theme (called "Z Theme" here). There's no control panel to change appearance, so you have to rename it to "Default Theme" to activate it. I tried putting in the "Hi Tech" theme from 8.2 but it froze up before it could load the desktop.

I tried a few standard Mac OS apps. Apple Video Player locked up the system. Apple CD Player couldn't find a cdrom drive (and the system will fail early into boot if there's a cd in the drive). Fetch ran but I didn't have TCP/IP set up to see if it could connect. Stuffit Expander ran but when I tried to open the preferences it locked up the system.

And now it's screenie time:

Desktop again (showing Input Menu)

GXSlidemaster (now using the "Z Theme")

GXSlidemaster debug menu

GXSlidemaster "Perspected View"

GXSlidemaster "Rotated View"

Using this OS is highly illogical, Captain

The ResEdit 3 developer build is a native Copland app. Here we can see how Copland's nested (aka messy) file dialog boxes looked

Shaky cellphone-cam footage of GXSlidemaster in action (up to when it locks up the system)

I've tried hooking up my 5400 as debug machine but for some reason the debugger just doesn't kick in. I'm about to wipe and try D7E1...

#33 Wed, 9 Feb 2011 - 19:58 68kMLA

I don't think D7E1 is going to work here. Holding down Caps Lock on startup just boots into the regular Mac OS. There are two versions of a modified System file that need to be copied across to the "host" Mac OS. One is for 7.1.2 and the other 7.5. As the 7500 needs 7.5.2 as a minimum to boot I can't use either.

Here's two more pics just to wrap things up:

Japanese text input, popup Finder window and column view

Find is disabled (I can't find this extension to enable it)

#34 Mon, 21 Feb 2011 - 11:56 68kMLA

You can try out the much more usable MacOS betas called 7.7.

They are a continuation of 7.6 at the time they stopped Copland and

have almost the same UI look.

A small part of Copland source got into Darwin I already wrote about that.

#35 Fri, 4 Mar 2011 - 19:19 68kMLA

Anything further to report on this?

#36 Fri, 4 Mar 2011 - 23:28 68kMLA

That's as far as I went with it. It crashes too much to spend any significant time in it. I get the feeling that builds closer to D11E4 may have been more stable but we only have these two. D7E1 seems to require a PDM-based Mac and I haven't seen any x100 PowerMacs in my "area". If I ever manage to get one I'll try D7E1 on it.

Really wish we could get some more Copland builds though. They must be out there somewhere.

#37 Sun, 7 Aug 2011 - 21:42 68kMLA

A very workable build of Copland does exist. Just watch this video of the actual Copland in action on the tv show Computer Chronicles back in 95 (at very beginning of video)

#38 Sun, 7 Aug 2011 - 21:52 68kMLA

Watch it closely. It's clearly just a multimedia demo. The Apple guy is just hitting a key to advance it along. He isn't even using the mouse.

#39 Sun, 7 Aug 2011 - 21:57 68kMLA

Hmmm just noticed that after watching it again... I heard there's a dp4 build that exists, that usable though.