Thread
Somebody has to buy this NOW
http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-Macintosh-SE-30-w-50MHz-Daystar-Micron-Xceed_W0QQitemZ140130895484QQihZ004QQcategoryZ4604QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
grayscale se/30, socketed logic board, presumably socketed 50mhz daystar uptrade.
Steal at $500 BIN. The socketed CPU upgrades for the se/30 are rarer than the grayscale setup, I would buy it myself but simply do not have the cash. somebody here NEEDS to buy it. seriously. It might be gone by the time you see this post though...
grayscale se/30, socketed logic board, presumably socketed 50mhz daystar uptrade.
Steal at $500 BIN. The socketed CPU upgrades for the se/30 are rarer than the grayscale setup, I would buy it myself but simply do not have the cash. somebody here NEEDS to buy it. seriously. It might be gone by the time you see this post though...
For $500, hell no. Don't you need a spare?
rare upgrades but not something im willing to dish $500 out for....also the case looks quite yellowed
You could probably sell the upgrades for more than $500 alone, as long as they were working...
X2...
A Micron Xceed video card that was untested and without the 5-point cable or grayscale adapter recently sold for $535...
And if that CPU upgrade is indeed socketed (in the CPU socket rather than the PDS slot) it is even rarer than the grayscale setup IMO.
It is well worth the buy it now price, the seller was not kidding that probably sold for $2000 previously.
Also you're forgetting the 900mb SOLID STATE scsi hard drive, no CF adapters or anything. That alone is worth well over $500.
Lol, ok, lets see for how much it goes...
Funny you should mention that and if you notice the text it says that it was in a "smoke-free" environment. Granted, they might not be smokers but that's some pretty nasty yellowing there for half-a-grand. :?:
It will go for $500 -- somebody is going to use buy it now while everyone here sits around scratching their heads and questioning if it's worth $500 or not...
Why does no one realize?
Xceed video card, adapter and cable, worth over $500? Check (possibly the video card alone even).
Socketed and re-capped (those upgrades would not even run if it still had original caps) logic board worth over $500? Probably not-- maybe $150-$200 or so.
Daystar 50MHz 68030 upgrade worth over $500? Check (only if it goes in the CPU socket).
900mb solid state scsi hard drive worth over $500? Check.
What I don't understand is if you realy think it could be parted out for over 2x the going rate then why have you not purchased it?
The only person on this website who has sunk much money into an se/30 is you 003. Quite frankly I would not spend over $50 for a SE/30 no matter what it had inside. Even upgraded a 030/50 with greyscale would be much less usefull then a color classic smurf which does have color, and it would be cheaper as well.
A real collector would not want a yellowed to hell SE/30 case anyway and might me put off by having to transfer the guts to another case since it might get broken.
The only person on this website who has sunk much money into an se/30 is you 003. Quite frankly I would not spend over $50 for a SE/30 no matter what it had inside. Even upgraded a 030/50 with greyscale would be much less usefull then a color classic smurf which does have color, and it would be cheaper as well.
A real collector would not want a yellowed to hell SE/30 case anyway and might me put off by having to transfer the guts to another case since it might get broken.
I'm suspicious that there are no pics to prove any of what is said in the auction. If the guy is really an engineer like he says, and is even mildly aware of what he has, there would be complete pics of the logic board, the accelerator, the Xceed card, the inside of the case, a screen shot of a high-res picture displayed, a screen shot of some kind of utility software showing the accelerator is recognized, etc.
That said, I *am* drooling over the possibility anyway.
Gary
That said, I *am* drooling over the possibility anyway.
Gary
There should be photos of the upgrades. You don't know what's inside that case. You could end up paying $500 for a bone stock SE/30 or worse, it might be broken or an even lower model in an SE/30 case. He doesn't even have a pic of it powered on.
Somebody bid on it.
I do not have the cash and I am in a pretty deep hole right now. If I had the cash or if I knew I would be able to pay it off I would have already purchased it... and there is a bid now. I will bet the auction will end for higher than the buy it now price.
There are no pics, but the guy has almost spotless feedback. I would still request pics though. If anything they will really boost the sale price.
"If anything they will really boost the sale price."
Asking for pics to boost the sale price? That's a complete bastard reason to do this.
You just can't let anyone else get a bargain can you???
Asking for pics to boost the sale price? That's a complete bastard reason to do this.
You just can't let anyone else get a bargain can you???
Don't Xceeds have video out ports? If so, there isn't one in this picture:
http://i20.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a6/20/96b5_12.JPG
http://i20.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a6/20/96b5_12.JPG
Xceed cards do have video out ports, though on mine it is a separate cable and it doesn't need to be used. It works fine without it, though I'd install it even I wasn't going to use it just so I wouldn't lose it!
I have not asked myself, not sure about anybody else. But this is kind of a weird auction now that I look at it, you don't even see a picture of the se/30 powered on. I WOULD ask for pictures if I were planning to bid, which I cant.
Also I notice something suspicious. On the back of the computer, the expansion port is not filled and still has the cover on it. With the XCEED video cards, they have a video out thingy that goes in the expansion port... not sure what to make of that.
I still say anyone selling something so valuable would be showing it off so they get the best possible price for it. It is illogical that someone would put a BIN of only $500 on a complete system with all those upgrades when the grayscale adapter alone sells for more than that. There's probably $1500 worth of gear there if the seller is telling the truth. I say this auction is a scam until I see some more photos added to the listing.
Well the seller has confirmed that it is the upgrade that plugs into the socket, but says that "Photos will be difficult due to time & schedule"... hmm, suspicious.
] ]'>
As I noted three posts up [
] ]'>That's the reply I just got.
I suppose his only saving grace is that he does have good feedback. I guess who ever is going to buy it just has to trust him.
Assuming that the listing was actually posted by that person and not someone who hacked their account.
And the bidders ID's are protected, so you can't even warn them if they might be being scammed. That was the worst thing ebay ever did, IMO, was conceal bidders identities.
The bidder IDs are only hidden when the auction goes over $100. Or $200, I forgot which one. But yeah it does suck.
http://www.toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=krubitz&sourceid=Mozilla-search&Dirn=Receivedby&Many=ON
The response "didn't have time" to put in a fedex claim worries me. I probably wouldn't bid unless I could pick it up.
Also he's a "computer engineer" and an electrical engineer it seems.. smelly.
The response "didn't have time" to put in a fedex claim worries me. I probably wouldn't bid unless I could pick it up.
Also he's a "computer engineer" and an electrical engineer it seems.. smelly.
Could be legit, but you have to be one lazy SOB to not atleast take one picture of the thing with a greyscale image showing to get the most $$ out of the unit.
He is also saying he does not have time to take more pics, which is also suspicious considering what he claims to be selling.
Don't ever buy from a seller who says such foolishness! Any seller who is ethical and strives to conduct honest deals will always go somewhat out of their way to make a good sale. Excuses like "there are so many dishonest buyers nowdays..." is no excuse at all but rather a cop out for your own unethical behavior, sellers!
Even a long history of 100% positive feedback immediately becomes irrelevant when the seller starts to talk this way. This is not just "having a bad day" or "he's been sick lately." Good and bad comes from the heart. And while I suppose one could turn a blind eye to reason and buy from this fellow, and possible end up with a working machine, why willingly put a bad taste in your mouth? That's the main reason I've not bid, and I've paid as much for other auctions.
Exercise extreme caution! Never pay that much money unless you have zero doubts about the seller and his merchandise. This is not a perfect world we live in, and EBAY transactions often work to reveal the darker side of man.
Damn I want that socketed accelerator badly...
but I also don't want to get ripped off.
And, even if that were not in the equation, I can't afford it as all
And LMAO whoever placed a bid instead of using buy it now was really stupid. This is going to sell for a LOT more than $500, especially if the seller gets pics.
but I also don't want to get ripped off.
And, even if that were not in the equation, I can't afford it as all
And LMAO whoever placed a bid instead of using buy it now was really stupid. This is going to sell for a LOT more than $500, especially if the seller gets pics.
$405 dollars already. That guy who placed the first bid was trying to get it cheap. I hope none of us here is bidding on it without seeing the inside.
I sent him a message asking why he won't photograph the upgrades and why there is no video out on the back of the machine. Let's see what his response is. Questions appear in the listing where potential bidders can see them, so maybe people will stop bidding or the current bidders will back out if they think they are being scammed.
I sent him a message asking why he won't photograph the upgrades and why there is no video out on the back of the machine. Let's see what his response is. Questions appear in the listing where potential bidders can see them, so maybe people will stop bidding or the current bidders will back out if they think they are being scammed.
Okay, One day to go
This showed up with the listing along with some interesting commentary...
It doesn't seem to have crossed the boyoh's mind that, if he were selling the greyscale card alone, few would be obliged to believe in it without a displayed picture on the selling page. So why should they be any more credulous about the same card inside the SE/30 without a picture of those same insides? Unreal, and unprofessional. No time for pictures? Then don't waste our time with slipshod presentation.
de
Here's his response
"Don't bid then. My ebay reputation precedes me which you can see for yourself."
Reputation means nothing if someone hacked his account and is attempting to scam. This person also seems very rude. I wouldn't buy from him if he was selling $5 bills for $1.
And that new photo proves nothing. It shows a compact with a card in a slot with no indication that the card is indeed the claimed Micron Xceed or that it is even a picture of the same machine he is selling. I also still don't see a video out on that card. Isn't the grayscale adapter supposed to be on a separate daughter card? I don't see a daughter card in that photo. There is also no proof of any of the other upgrades that are supposedly in it. He goes on to say it is too hard to disassemble the machine, but isn't the hardest part getting the case off?? Once that's done, the motherboard is easy.
And my question somehow does not appear in the listing. I thought all questions concerning an item automatically appeared?? Does the seller control which questions can appear??
"Don't bid then. My ebay reputation precedes me which you can see for yourself."
Reputation means nothing if someone hacked his account and is attempting to scam. This person also seems very rude. I wouldn't buy from him if he was selling $5 bills for $1.
And that new photo proves nothing. It shows a compact with a card in a slot with no indication that the card is indeed the claimed Micron Xceed or that it is even a picture of the same machine he is selling. I also still don't see a video out on that card. Isn't the grayscale adapter supposed to be on a separate daughter card? I don't see a daughter card in that photo. There is also no proof of any of the other upgrades that are supposedly in it. He goes on to say it is too hard to disassemble the machine, but isn't the hardest part getting the case off?? Once that's done, the motherboard is easy.
And my question somehow does not appear in the listing. I thought all questions concerning an item automatically appeared?? Does the seller control which questions can appear??
Yes. eBay states, in Ask Seller a Question, 'Note: The seller may [my emphasis] include your question in the item description.'
de
I've receive such ludacrous responses from other fishy classic Mac sellers in the past. I tried to warn others about them in a new thread on this site, but many EBAY sellers flocked to that thread, created a cry and moan session, and forced me to cease posting in it. Indeed, most EBAY sellers think they have the power to do anything, even get away with unethical or even criminal behavior. (Good classic Mac sellers like 003 are clearly excluded from what I'm talking about here. I always give praise where praise is due, along side those who deserve criticism.)
But as I wrote in my previous post in this thread, all your positive EBAY feedback is immediately tarnished when you act sufficiently stupid one time. This appears to be that sellers one time.
One thing I have done in the past to help others is write the absolute truth to them. There are times when I really wanted to bid on a given item, but the seller was rude and didn't want to answer any questions! At that point I decided I was no longer interested. I then fired off emails to other bidders who were listed, warning them of a possible bad deal. Most were members of the classic Mac community, like all of us here, and were happy to receive the insight, as they had not sufficiently questioned the seller to see if he was legitimate.
Sadly, EBAY changed things and you now cannot email other bidders with warning tips when the price goes past a certain point. While this in some way may protect bidders, it also hurts them too as no one can warn them of impending danger.
Hence, the only thing you can do in this particular auction is continue to hammer on the seller and just watch the poor soul who buys the thing. No doubt he'll pop up on this site after a while if he has an "unexpected problem."
But for future auctions, perhaps if we all knew each others EBAY names, we could warn each other of possible fraud via direct email (or PM). There should be some way we can work to help each other in this regard!
The only way people learn about fire is to be burned, same with bad ebay auctions.
I don't expect a large volume seller to answer many (or any questions) about a $1 item he has listed, but I do expect them to answer a question or take a picture for a single item that starts out at a few hundred dollars and could be worthless depending on what is included. They need to put in some effort to squeeze the most money out of the buyer anyway.
All your ebay feedback means is if you have screwed anybody over they havn't left bad feedback as of yet. As with any auction you need to research what you are bidding on, and ask the appropriate questions before you bid or you can get burned.
I don't expect a large volume seller to answer many (or any questions) about a $1 item he has listed, but I do expect them to answer a question or take a picture for a single item that starts out at a few hundred dollars and could be worthless depending on what is included. They need to put in some effort to squeeze the most money out of the buyer anyway.
All your ebay feedback means is if you have screwed anybody over they havn't left bad feedback as of yet. As with any auction you need to research what you are bidding on, and ask the appropriate questions before you bid or you can get burned.
I was active on the PCGS (coin collectors) forum for a few years a while back, and the members there watch out for each other warning bidders away from counterfeit or other suspicious items and opening discussion forums when items which may be fraudulent or stolen appear so that if anyone wanders in wondering about an ebay item, they will see it and stay away. I myself found several coins with what appeared to be altered dates and sure enough, after viewing of the photos in the listing, persons more expert at spotting fakes than myself concluded that they were altered. This crap of hiding bidders name on certain items pretty well ensures that the scammers will continue to thrive on ebay instead of being shut down by vigilant members who know how to spot a scam taking place.
That is indeed the xceed video card and grayscale adapter. The grayscale adapter is appearntly, a homebrew.This showed up with the listing along with some interesting commentary...
You can tell it is the grayscale adapter because of the blue resistor, and if you look carefully you can kind of see the cable connecting to it on the bottom, going to the video card. You can also see the very thin black ground wire hooked up to the metal frame near the power supply, that is part of the 5-point cable, as well as the one in the top corner of the CRT.
I see a very strange black box right behind the area where the video out should be, with a cable connected to it. I have no idea what that is but it is not normal. I am guessing it is some part of the solid state hard drive.
I do not see an accelerator in the photo which means there is none, or it really is socketed and not visible in the picture. I am guessing the latter, really based on the guy's feedback.
In reality the auction is most likely legit and we are just making excuses as to why we won't bid on it, and be in denial about the fact that we knew it was legit all along, and really wanted it but could not afford it. If that picture is now in the auction, it is going to go for an extremley large sum of money. MUCH more than $500.
I will now repeat myself and say whoever placed the first bid is an effing tard to be quite honest. It is now going to go for much more than the buy it now price.
003 the more you talk the weirder you sound. Are you trying to get people to bid this up to $2000 so the $500 or so you sunk into your se/30 (money you seem to not have) sound more reasonable? I mean if it doesn't go over $400 will you freak or something? Get a grip.
Unknown_K, I actually told 003 about this auction prior to the start of this thread via PM. He returned my PM by saying he only wished he had the cash to buy it, but that such wasn't a luxury he could afford at the moment. I've spoken with 003 offline quite often in the past, and I sincerely believe he has no interest whatsoever in driving up the bid price for this auction. His posts merely express, however indirectly, his intense sorrow over not being able to snatch up this machine.
All the while, since most of us cannot afford this machine anyway, I have been trying to point out that not having this item may be for the best. It seems quite clear to me that this seller is a man of few ethical principles, and I personally wouldn't feel right about buying from someone like that. But when the good sellers come along, I am more than willing to let go of my cash. Funny, but the bad sellers try all manner of scams to get more cash inappropriately when they could make as much or more by legitimate and helpful transactions! We indeed reap what we sow.
Quadraman, I wish there was a way we could help out each other as you mention. But if the price gets too high the bidders are masked from us. So I suppose all we can do is simply help out others who are bidding on low priced items, which isn't really a lot of help considering most scams occur on the high priced items!
All the while, since most of us cannot afford this machine anyway, I have been trying to point out that not having this item may be for the best. It seems quite clear to me that this seller is a man of few ethical principles, and I personally wouldn't feel right about buying from someone like that. But when the good sellers come along, I am more than willing to let go of my cash. Funny, but the bad sellers try all manner of scams to get more cash inappropriately when they could make as much or more by legitimate and helpful transactions! We indeed reap what we sow.
Quadraman, I wish there was a way we could help out each other as you mention. But if the price gets too high the bidders are masked from us. So I suppose all we can do is simply help out others who are bidding on low priced items, which isn't really a lot of help considering most scams occur on the high priced items!
No I don't care how much it goes for. Let's recall why this thread was made, shall we? [
] ]'> I was merely pointing out that from that picture I am able to see it does indeed have the Xceed video card, grayscale adapter and 5-point cable. It also has that strange black box, I have no idea what it is but I think it has to do with the solid state hard drive.
I was pointing these things out because people were saying it didn't look like it had the grayscale adapter and the PDS card might not be the Xceed card.
Quite frankly I would not care about the attitude of the seller, as long as the auction is legit (which it appears to be), the rarity of the items in it would justify having used the buy it now option. Of course thats no longer possible and it is now going to sell for way more, unfortunately. I would like to reiterate how stupid the first bidder is again.
Now, this still might be a scam. Since there are no pictures of the machine powered on (which would be less work to photograph than removing the back cover), maybe the whole thing was fried in a bad accident and the seller is trying to unload his mess on someone else, and when they receive it, claim it was working when he shipped it and so it is not his problem.
I have a sneaking suspicion that if someone put in a snipe for $500.02, they might win it. I doubt the first bidder bid more than the $500 BIN or he would have just grabbed it for that price.
Now we are down to the final three hours and twenty minutes.
Currently going for $405.00 USD
Currently going for $405.00 USD
$577.89
Looks like the first bidder screwed himself by not using the BIN while it was there. How could they NOT think that this item was going to bid higher than that?
They were stupid.
I am surprised it went for only this low. There was recently an Xceed card on e-bay, without the 5 point cable or grayscale adapter, just the card alone, untested, that went for $535. My bet is that if he had more detailed pictures of the parts as well as pictures of it running, the bid would have been much, MUCH higher.
How can you say that? The original bidder had a max bid of $405, BIN was $500 which he didn't want to spend (and lost the auction). It is logical to put in a bid somewhere between the original minimum bid and lower then the BIN price in the hope there won't be too many people bidding. You do recall there wasn't much in the way of pictures when the 1st bid went in.
The guy was looking for a deal and it didn't pan out.
One data point means nothing. Don't confuse what you are willing to pay with what everybody else on the planet is willing to pay. Prices for niche stuff like this bounces all over the place depending on if the collector with the money has this item yet or not. Maybe if you didn't have this already you would have bid it up 003, but since you did it didn't go as high as you would have made it go otherwise.
Umm, if I didn't have one already and I had the cash, I would have used BIN in a heartbeat. If BIN no longer existed, I would use a esnipe.
If the original bidder had a max bid of $405 he shouldn't have bid. Yes, prices fluctuate for collectors items, but come on, you know as well as I something as rare as that would always sell for more than $500 no matter what....
If the original bidder had a max bid of $405 he shouldn't have bid. Yes, prices fluctuate for collectors items, but come on, you know as well as I something as rare as that would always sell for more than $500 no matter what....
Well, first of all, the original bidder did screw himself for one or more of the following
A. Knowing how much this stuff is worth, and trying to get a deal by underbidding rather than using the BIN.
B. Not knowing how much this stuff is worth, and bidding on an item he had no business bidding on in the first place.
C. Placing a bid on an item he obviously did not want. If he really wanted it he would have either BINned or placed a realistic bid and hoped he wasn't outbid later by someone with more money who didn't care about the price. $405 is most certainly not a realistic bid for this item since any one of the upgrades by themselves would sell for more than that on even a bad day. Having said that, this item still went way too cheap assuming it is legit.
A. Knowing how much this stuff is worth, and trying to get a deal by underbidding rather than using the BIN.
B. Not knowing how much this stuff is worth, and bidding on an item he had no business bidding on in the first place.
C. Placing a bid on an item he obviously did not want. If he really wanted it he would have either BINned or placed a realistic bid and hoped he wasn't outbid later by someone with more money who didn't care about the price. $405 is most certainly not a realistic bid for this item since any one of the upgrades by themselves would sell for more than that on even a bad day. Having said that, this item still went way too cheap assuming it is legit.
You guys are off your rocker. I lowball bids all the time and win. I just won (2) 18GB SCSI hds for $.99 a few minutes ago with $9 shipping, did I pay the going rate? HELL NO.
Maybe the guy knew it was worth $500+ and figured he might get it cheaper, it happens all the time.
The whole point of ebay to a buyer is to find deals way below market value, or he would just go pay market value at a store.
Maybe the guy knew it was worth $500+ and figured he might get it cheaper, it happens all the time.
The whole point of ebay to a buyer is to find deals way below market value, or he would just go pay market value at a store.
There's kind of a SLIGHT difference between a hard drive and an se/30 with some of the rarest upgrades ever made for it all in one auction...
Things which go unsaid (logic and common sense) dictate what can and can not be under bid.
And you know darn well that most of the people who bid on rare se/30 upgrades on e-bay are insane with how much money they spend.
Don't try and say it would be possible for an se/30 with a collection of the rarest and most sought after and absurdly expensive upgrades would EVER, in this or ANY parallel universe sell for $405 or less. Think rationally here. You seem to have a bias against the se/30 in saying you think the most maxed out se/30 would be only worth $50 to you. Well that's fine and good to be your opinion but it is not shared by any of the whack job se/30 bidders that patrol e-bay 24/7, unfortunately.
The value in the items is not really because of some amazing functionality (though they are cool), but because of collectors value and extreme rarity.
The auction did end at a very low price and I'm willing to bet it was because of:
1. The sellers attitude
2. The lack of internal pictures until near the end, and even then it was only one that was not very clear
3. The lack of pictures showing the unit powered on
4. Come on, only 3-4 pictures, and not even supersized??? For pete sakes ebay lets you put 12 pictures for the same price as 4 and supersize is not even a dollar, total.
Things which go unsaid (logic and common sense) dictate what can and can not be under bid.
And you know darn well that most of the people who bid on rare se/30 upgrades on e-bay are insane with how much money they spend.
Don't try and say it would be possible for an se/30 with a collection of the rarest and most sought after and absurdly expensive upgrades would EVER, in this or ANY parallel universe sell for $405 or less. Think rationally here. You seem to have a bias against the se/30 in saying you think the most maxed out se/30 would be only worth $50 to you. Well that's fine and good to be your opinion but it is not shared by any of the whack job se/30 bidders that patrol e-bay 24/7, unfortunately.
The value in the items is not really because of some amazing functionality (though they are cool), but because of collectors value and extreme rarity.
The auction did end at a very low price and I'm willing to bet it was because of:
1. The sellers attitude
2. The lack of internal pictures until near the end, and even then it was only one that was not very clear
3. The lack of pictures showing the unit powered on
4. Come on, only 3-4 pictures, and not even supersized??? For pete sakes ebay lets you put 12 pictures for the same price as 4 and supersize is not even a dollar, total.
I still would have to side with 003's logic a bit on this fellow. I mean, unless he's a complete newbie on EBAY, he should have known that the BIN was "a deal" relative to what that video card setup alone has sold for in the past.
But this one auction is merely one of many cases where the "lesser informed" or "ignorant" in our classic Mac community only work to drive up prices for us all. In my mind, it's not about grayscale cards or rare video cards, it's about anything we want to buy on EBAY (classic Mac merchandise, I mean). I often want to snap up a simple programmer's switch and someone things it's worth $20 and drives the price into outer space. While such utter stupidity may put smiles on the faces of sellers, it certainly causes me much bewilderment and frustration. For even when I myself was a "newbie" on EBAY, I had the sense to check out how other people bid and determined a "reasonable value" for items before I ever engaged in bidding.
Sometimes I feel we need a school specifically to train people how to exercise "good judgment" when it comes to bidding on EBAY!
Anyway, getting back more to the topic of this thread, I can only add that it is highly unlikely a grayscale setup will appear on EBAY for a price that any of us in this thread can afford (or would be willing to afford). I myself would spent a couple hundred dollars (as I did on a DiiMO CPU card recently), but certainly not more than that. Grayscale on an SE/30 is rare and would be really fund to tinker with, I know, but it's just not worth $500-$800 USD. No matter what way I look at it or how much I want it, I simply could never justify that cost.
You just don't get it, you do know that some people with that card never paid much of anything for it don't you? You are the same person who said it would go for $2000 or some crazy number, you paid more for your setup and it doesn't have a solid state SCSI HD either.
I know a few people with Apple IIgs with the high speed SCSI, transwarp cpu accelerator, 8MB RAM card that got them at a thrift store, all those put together will sell for more then $400 on ebay, but they paid $20 for it.
You have some stupid figure stuck in your head and nothing can bring you to believe that somebody can get a deal once in a while.
I have a Tokamac II FX accelerator for my Mac IIfx, they are VERY rare, never seen one on ebay, only pics of one on the net are of mine and somebody in Japan. Go find me one at any price anywhere. I paid $3 for it.
Casolai from IRC got a Newertech Nubus RAM card for the 840av for something like $7 NIB, it sold on ebay the same month for $300 ish I think, very rare card.
Deals can and will be found. Ebay is not the whole universe.
Deals can be found and they will be found. But e-bay is not a thrift store.
The difference between your IIfx accelerator and a grayscale setup is that the grayscale setup is in high demand and very well known about. I will admit, the first time I heard of the IIfx accelerator you speak of is right now.
The SE/30, for whatever reason, is also one of the most popular, if not THE most popular classic mac for collectors. I don't know why. It just is. And so the super rare upgrades for it go for extremley large sums of money because thats what the collectors are willing to pay. Is it possible you could walk into a thrift shop and find a grayscale setup sitting on a shelf for $15? yeah I guess it's possible. But how many times have you heard of that? None.
I only got the grayscale setup for the price I did because I asked the seller if he would end the auction early for me. And for whatever reason, he did. If the auction went to the end, it would have ended for a LOT of money. The grayscale setup seems to go for a lot more alone than it does already installed in an SE/30, also. I knew of it's rarity and I though the seller did as well, and was fully expecting him to say no. But when he said yes, what was I supposed to do? Say thanks but no thanks?
The auction in question here did not go for nearly as much as it should have and I attribute that to the fact that the seller had a bad attitude, he gave no pictures of it powered on, which would have been simpler to do than the picture of the inside, and the one picture of the inside was admittedly pretty vague. Quite seriously, each upgrade in that SE/30 assuming they are working, would sell on e-bay for way more than $500 a piece. I'm not trying to prevent people from getting deals and I never even contacted the seller. The whole reason I made this thread was so that maybe somebody here could buy it with buy it now, I would not want to drive up the price.
But what you don't seem to get is how rare and well known each of the upgrades is, and what kind of demand they are in. Yes, as you and I have already pointed out it is possible to get deals. But this was a strange one, and I have already explained more than once why it went for so low... I can't change your mind on anything but I can tell you what I know... you appearntly don't accept it. fine.
The difference between your IIfx accelerator and a grayscale setup is that the grayscale setup is in high demand and very well known about. I will admit, the first time I heard of the IIfx accelerator you speak of is right now.
The SE/30, for whatever reason, is also one of the most popular, if not THE most popular classic mac for collectors. I don't know why. It just is. And so the super rare upgrades for it go for extremley large sums of money because thats what the collectors are willing to pay. Is it possible you could walk into a thrift shop and find a grayscale setup sitting on a shelf for $15? yeah I guess it's possible. But how many times have you heard of that? None.
I only got the grayscale setup for the price I did because I asked the seller if he would end the auction early for me. And for whatever reason, he did. If the auction went to the end, it would have ended for a LOT of money. The grayscale setup seems to go for a lot more alone than it does already installed in an SE/30, also. I knew of it's rarity and I though the seller did as well, and was fully expecting him to say no. But when he said yes, what was I supposed to do? Say thanks but no thanks?
The auction in question here did not go for nearly as much as it should have and I attribute that to the fact that the seller had a bad attitude, he gave no pictures of it powered on, which would have been simpler to do than the picture of the inside, and the one picture of the inside was admittedly pretty vague. Quite seriously, each upgrade in that SE/30 assuming they are working, would sell on e-bay for way more than $500 a piece. I'm not trying to prevent people from getting deals and I never even contacted the seller. The whole reason I made this thread was so that maybe somebody here could buy it with buy it now, I would not want to drive up the price.
But what you don't seem to get is how rare and well known each of the upgrades is, and what kind of demand they are in. Yes, as you and I have already pointed out it is possible to get deals. But this was a strange one, and I have already explained more than once why it went for so low... I can't change your mind on anything but I can tell you what I know... you appearntly don't accept it. fine.
And the real problem here is that when enough guys bid $20 for an item such as you referenced, then sellers get the idea in their heads that $20 is the going rate and start setting reserves or higher opening bids or shilling their own auctions. It doesn't matter that only 0.1% of bidders are crazy enough to go that high but enough of them win that it creates a false perception about the rarity or desirability of the item and the rest of us with a more realistic idea of the value have no chance of ever getting one unless we play the same game, which fuels prices even further. Rare and valuable items deserve the high prices they get most of the time, more common items don't. This is the main reason I snipe rather than broadcast my intentions by bidding early. I also leave less of a trail to follow later if someone wants to check the most recent items I won. If the bids all end in the same price range and at or near my maximum bid, it gives both the opposition, as well any future seller of similar items, a chance to analyze my bids and figure out where my limits are. If the auctions I win end all over the place with no discernible pattern, it offers me some protection and more chances to win at lower prices.
X2 I get really annoying when I see untested se/30 logic boards with bad caps going on e-bay for $40 or more...
There is a lot of classic Mac merchandise being sold as "untested" and/or "AS/IS" despite the fact many of these sellers have it within their means to test. These same sellers are of the type who refuse to answer many questions and/or have lackluster photos, or even foolish misspellings in their listing. These types drive me nuts!
But I completely agree that common items found on EBAY often cost too much. And I absolutely hate it when a seller makes ignorant claims such as citing a Mac Plus as being "rare." Indeed, that adjective should be banned from 99% of all listings. It's a rare case when I truly see something "rare"! And folks, any item you see nearly every day on EBAY (like a Mac 128k) cannot be defined as "rare." Grayscale video for the SE/30 though is more true to the definition of "rare" than most other items I've seen on EBAY.
Now won't one of you out there just build us a $100 copy of the video board and grayscale card and drivers so we can all enjoy grayscale?!
But I completely agree that common items found on EBAY often cost too much. And I absolutely hate it when a seller makes ignorant claims such as citing a Mac Plus as being "rare." Indeed, that adjective should be banned from 99% of all listings. It's a rare case when I truly see something "rare"! And folks, any item you see nearly every day on EBAY (like a Mac 128k) cannot be defined as "rare." Grayscale video for the SE/30 though is more true to the definition of "rare" than most other items I've seen on EBAY.
Now won't one of you out there just build us a $100 copy of the video board and grayscale card and drivers so we can all enjoy grayscale?!
I have talked to the Micron Engineer who has the plans for those boards, waiting to hear when he is shipping them over (unless something happened). Was supposed to get all kind of docs/drivers/cards from him.
If I do get the schematics I will post them all. So maybe somebody could make a few hundred and send me one.
If I do get the schematics I will post them all. So maybe somebody could make a few hundred and send me one.
Well now this is driving me nuts.. I used to have a schematic of the grayscale adapter on my hard drive but now I can't find it. there WAS a link to it on 68kmla but it was lost when the server crashed. anybody else remember it or save it, or find it in the google cache?
I couldn't find YOUR post, 003, but I was able to Google up this one. Not sure if that fellow is still active on this site or not.
Be prepare to get even more annoyed.
Unbelievable. Totally unbelievable. It's almost as if this seller viewed this thread first and then decided to hock his logic board for the highest price possible! It's also yet another example of a seller with 100% feedback and a very high score at that. So again, feedback scores alone don't tell the whole story.
I only noticed this particular auction because I've been looking for an SE/30 logic board for AGES and happened to find it this morning. But regardless of my desire to have one, I refuse to pay that -- especially when one considers I would have to pay USPS air mail rates to get it shipped to me in Japan! But the seller, like so many others, chooses only the elite country of the US-of-A to sell to, so I am excluded anyway (regardless of the fact I am a US citizen who just happens to live outside "the land of the free.")
That wont sell....
Now if it were started as an auction at 99 cents, it would surely be bid up that high. But with buy it now? people won't bite...
Now if it were started as an auction at 99 cents, it would surely be bid up that high. But with buy it now? people won't bite...
The frightful and very disturbing thing is, sometimes people DO bid in such foolish ways. Whether or not they will on this auction is to be determined in a few days' time. But tragically, such foolish bidding only works to reinforce the misnomer that "all classic Mac bidders are stupid and gullible" in the minds of less honest sellers (which appears to be majority of sellers, I must sadly report). The sheer ignorance of many bidders has a negative price impact on us all.
With that said, it very well could be the case that the seller will wise up to market driven forces if there are no bidders when the auction closes. I've seen this before. The seller then waits a couple days and relists at a lower price. The auction then fails to sell again and he relists again and sometimes again until his price is more in line with the auctual value of the item being sold. It is usually at that time that the intelligent among us place our bids! (Myself included.)
With that said, it very well could be the case that the seller will wise up to market driven forces if there are no bidders when the auction closes. I've seen this before. The seller then waits a couple days and relists at a lower price. The auction then fails to sell again and he relists again and sometimes again until his price is more in line with the auctual value of the item being sold. It is usually at that time that the intelligent among us place our bids! (Myself included.)
For what it's worth, all the items from that seller seem to be crazily overpriced. Maybe they're just stupid.
I've actually seen quite a number of sellers like this, Tyler. These blood thirsty sellers have EBAY stores where every single Mac item is outrageously priced. These kind of sellers feed on the newbies and ignorant Mac users, which is what I was trying to describe in my last post.
Some people (who often do not participate in forums like this one), are simply unaware of how much something is worth. And these folks occasionally have a sudden urge for something nostalgic and they pay through the nose to sellers like this one to get it.
If there were not buyers like that, these sellers would either go out of business or lower their prices. The fact these overpriced auctions remain on EBAY though is evidence that some people ignorantly bid and pay such prices. And again, this is sad for all of us who may be interested in items like a logic board from time to time, albeit at a reasonable price.
One cannot say that EBAY is "all bad" because all of us have purchased at least one item off it for a good price, myself included. It simply gets depressing to see the vast majority of deals selling for prices that are far too high, especially now that USPS has raised its prices (no more ocean shipping for people like me who live outside the US).
Some people (who often do not participate in forums like this one), are simply unaware of how much something is worth. And these folks occasionally have a sudden urge for something nostalgic and they pay through the nose to sellers like this one to get it.
If there were not buyers like that, these sellers would either go out of business or lower their prices. The fact these overpriced auctions remain on EBAY though is evidence that some people ignorantly bid and pay such prices. And again, this is sad for all of us who may be interested in items like a logic board from time to time, albeit at a reasonable price.
One cannot say that EBAY is "all bad" because all of us have purchased at least one item off it for a good price, myself included. It simply gets depressing to see the vast majority of deals selling for prices that are far too high, especially now that USPS has raised its prices (no more ocean shipping for people like me who live outside the US).
Surely you could get an entire SE/30 for far less than $99 though, no? The other compacts don't seem to be worth anything, are SE/30s really worth that much in comparison?
Personally I think eBay is great - I don't know about vintage Mac bits, as I don't really use it for that kind of thing, but for other stuff you can get real bargains on there, and high street stores can't compete with the prices available on eBay. I don't see that overpriced items are a bad thing really - it's just like traditional shops in that some are overpriced while others sell identical items much cheaper - it's up to the buyer to shop around and they should know that.
Trust me. Once you start using EBAY "for that kind of thing" (to buy mostly classic Mac items), you suddenly gain a different perspective and come to see first hand what my posts in this thread are talking about.
It's really a different world on EBAY when comparing Apple merchandise to everything else. A lot of unethical sellers flock to the Apple section of EBAY because they know there are ignorant Mac loving buyers out there who will pay virtually anything to get what they want.
There have been several recent cases wherein processor upgrades for 68K Macs have been unrealistically priced at the start. Most often they have not sold, been relisted at the same price and still not sold, and so on. Then there have been other listings of upgrade cards that started unrealistically, but were reduced in starting price at each relisting until they reached the level of attractiveness to sell. It depends somewhat on the Mac savviness of the seller, and whether realism catches up with greed.
If the SE/30 logic board above had metal RAM clips, a socketted CPU and a re-cap. job it could be worth the money. But it hasn't/aint.
de
If the SE/30 logic board above had metal RAM clips, a socketted CPU and a re-cap. job it could be worth the money. But it hasn't/aint.
de
Untested and AS/IS = tested and found to be broken. I don't even bother with most auctions like that unless it contains something that can be salvaged that is worth the price paid.There is a lot of classic Mac merchandise being sold as "untested" and/or "AS/IS" despite the fact many of these sellers have it within their means to test. These same sellers are of the type who refuse to answer many questions and/or have lackluster photos, or even foolish misspellings in their listing. These types drive me nuts!
But I completely agree that common items found on EBAY often cost too much. And I absolutely hate it when a seller makes ignorant claims such as citing a Mac Plus as being "rare." Indeed, that adjective should be banned from 99% of all listings. It's a rare case when I truly see something "rare"! And folks, any item you see nearly every day on EBAY (like a Mac 128k) cannot be defined as "rare." Grayscale video for the SE/30 though is more true to the definition of "rare" than most other items I've seen on EBAY.
Now won't one of you out there just build us a $100 copy of the video board and grayscale card and drivers so we can all enjoy grayscale?!
True. Hence back to the ignorance of the buyers.
The feedback is in for this auction and the buyer is happy. I didn't think it was fraud but the guy certainly wasn't forthcoming in his ad and got really snippy. Check out the stuff the buyer has bought and sold recently. Come on, is it someone on here?
cangrande
p.s. I still have my Xceed w/grayscale, anyone want to make an offer? I will take as many pictures as you like and I won't be a jerk, I promise
p.p.s. Are socketed motherboards desirable? I don't have any upgrades, but one of the SE/30 logic boards is socketed. Do noninstalled upgrades ever come up for sale?
cangrande
p.s. I still have my Xceed w/grayscale, anyone want to make an offer? I will take as many pictures as you like and I won't be a jerk, I promise
p.p.s. Are socketed motherboards desirable? I don't have any upgrades, but one of the SE/30 logic boards is socketed. Do noninstalled upgrades ever come up for sale?
Socketed motherboards ARE desirable because they are rare. Socketed upgrades seem to be even rarer, though. But nonetheless a working, socketed motherboard without an upgrade would get quite a bit more than a non socketed one in a traditional auction.
Having it re-capped would also increase the value, but you would also run the risk of frying it.
Having it re-capped would also increase the value, but you would also run the risk of frying it.
In most cases, I would agree with you. But for the first time ever in my years on EBAY, I landed a brand new item for $0.99 (plus shipping to Japan)! I must say that I was overjoyed because it never fails that some nut will bid up the price, and although I will win it in the end, I usually have to pay a lot more. But this time, I watched the auction all the way to the last 30 seconds and because no one bid, I manually "snipped it" and got the $0.99 opening price. Since there's no ocean shipping to Japan anymore (shame on you USPS!), I had to air mail it over here for $45. But considering the total I've paid for analog boards like this in the past, it was a good deal.
This was a Mac Plus Platinum analog board that I had been searching for for years. I was brand new, still in the original Apple Service box with the original anti-static wrap (unbroken seal) and foam cushions and paperwork. The buyer sold it "AS IS/UNTESTED" for two reasons: because he lacked the means to test it (he acquired many Apple Service boxes from another source) and he didn't want to open it (otherwise he couldn't sell it as "unopened.")
This seller put up decent photos and his listing was descriptive enough to where I didn't need to ask questions prior to bidding. I also saw he shipped "worldwide," which meant I didn't need to beg the seller to include Japan.
All said it was a good deal, even though it was sold "AS IS/ UNTESTED." So you have to be careful with items like that, and often you have to ask questions (if the listing lacks details), but sometimes there is a reason for that description and it makes logical sense. But again, I agree that many EBAY sellers are unethical in their tactics and they sell something "AS IS/UNTESTED" even though they can and maybe have tested it, knowing its bad.
cangrande, I've been searching for a working SE/30 logic board for a long time. I've not been able to find one on EBAY over the past couple years for a decent price (because one person in this thread has been buying them all up!
I don't need socketed (because I don't want to pay extra for it), and I can re-cap myself. But in light of USPS shipping charges now, I can't pay as much for one as I used to be willing to. However, I would be interested in one.As to your grayscale setup, I'm certain your price would be out of my league. However, if it was reasonable then of course I would be interested. And I could then shoot some photos to add to my Flickr Collection and post some detailed reports about it here (which no other owner of a grayscale setup has ever done for this classic Mac community).
I am not a "collector" in name, but rather a Mac enthusiast who is willing to share findings with the community. I do it only because I would like to see others do it. I like to see clear, sharp photos of old Mac stuff, and I like to read interesting reports about them too. Sadly, we don't see a lot of this on Low End Mac, so some of us must post it in forums like this!
So anyway, I am more than happy to make some of your items famous on the net, if you decide you wish to part with them.
Trust me, we're better off without surface mail. It was very unreliable and slow, even though it was cheap.In most cases, I would agree with you. But for the first time ever in my years on EBAY, I landed a brand new item for $0.99 (plus shipping to Japan)! I must say that I was overjoyed because it never fails that some nut will bid up the price, and although I will win it in the end, I usually have to pay a lot more. But this time, I watched the auction all the way to the last 30 seconds and because no one bid, I manually "snipped it" and got the $0.99 opening price. Since there's no ocean shipping to Japan anymore (shame on you USPS!), I had to air mail it over here for $45. But considering the total I've paid for analog boards like this in the past, it was a good deal.
This was a Mac Plus Platinum analog board that I had been searching for for years. I was brand new, still in the original Apple Service box with the original anti-static wrap (unbroken seal) and foam cushions and paperwork. The buyer sold it "AS IS/UNTESTED" for two reasons: because he lacked the means to test it (he acquired many Apple Service boxes from another source) and he didn't want to open it (otherwise he couldn't sell it as "unopened.")
This seller put up decent photos and his listing was descriptive enough to where I didn't need to ask questions prior to bidding. I also saw he shipped "worldwide," which meant I didn't need to beg the seller to include Japan.
All said it was a good deal, even though it was sold "AS IS/ UNTESTED." So you have to be careful with items like that, and often you have to ask questions (if the listing lacks details), but sometimes there is a reason for that description and it makes logical sense. But again, I agree that many EBAY sellers are unethical in their tactics and they sell something "AS IS/UNTESTED" even though they can and maybe have tested it, knowing its bad.
cangrande, I've been searching for a working SE/30 logic board for a long time. I've not been able to find one on EBAY over the past couple years for a decent price (because one person in this thread has been buying them all up!
As to your grayscale setup, I'm certain your price would be out of my league. However, if it was reasonable then of course I would be interested. And I could then shoot some photos to add to my Flickr Collection and post some detailed reports about it here (which no other owner of a grayscale setup has ever done for this classic Mac community).
I am not a "collector" in name, but rather a Mac enthusiast who is willing to share findings with the community. I do it only because I would like to see others do it. I like to see clear, sharp photos of old Mac stuff, and I like to read interesting reports about them too. Sadly, we don't see a lot of this on Low End Mac, so some of us must post it in forums like this!
So anyway, I am more than happy to make some of your items famous on the net, if you decide you wish to part with them.
Well, I for one mourn the loss of surface mail. If they could make a low cost version of air mail to be just as cheap, then I would side with you right away, in full agreement! But the fact remains that I would never have been able to afford (nor would I have wanted to) some of the great Mac equipment I've bought off EBAY and had shipped to me via Ocean through the years. To ship a complete system, it would often cost me in excess of US$70 even by ocean. The air freight charges would have been on order of $250. And consider the cost of some of these items on EBAY, freight charges really hit you hard! (Especially when you live in Japan like I do.) I also shipped a lot of big, heavy books over by ocean. Try that via AIR and you go the poor house right away (or go without your books).
No, I never liked the lack of package tracking. Nor did I get my jollies off waiting 1.5 to 2 months for a box. But you see, I was willing to wait for a discount. That's the point. I was willing to make a sacrifice so I wouldn't have to pay higher shipping charges. And maybe I was lucky, but I never had a package lost either. I had some that were banged up pretty good, but you learn how to ship things over time. And you learn how to educate EBAY sellers on how to properly pack things for you. With my instructions, I never had a seller complain nor a box come through so damaged the contents were broken or scratch or otherwise unusable.
I always made that sacrifice when packages were big. For example, I had entire BBQ sets, baby carriages and other such items shipped to me by surface. I would have never, ever considered shipping those things by AIR! Never! It's just too expensive. Why? Because think about the cost of the item, THEN add shipping to that. It gets expensive. Another thing that impacts you is the exchange rate too. So you see why some people like me want to save money where possible. And it used to be possible on shipping. Not anymore, sadly.
No, I never liked the lack of package tracking. Nor did I get my jollies off waiting 1.5 to 2 months for a box. But you see, I was willing to wait for a discount. That's the point. I was willing to make a sacrifice so I wouldn't have to pay higher shipping charges. And maybe I was lucky, but I never had a package lost either. I had some that were banged up pretty good, but you learn how to ship things over time. And you learn how to educate EBAY sellers on how to properly pack things for you. With my instructions, I never had a seller complain nor a box come through so damaged the contents were broken or scratch or otherwise unusable.
I always made that sacrifice when packages were big. For example, I had entire BBQ sets, baby carriages and other such items shipped to me by surface. I would have never, ever considered shipping those things by AIR! Never! It's just too expensive. Why? Because think about the cost of the item, THEN add shipping to that. It gets expensive. Another thing that impacts you is the exchange rate too. So you see why some people like me want to save money where possible. And it used to be possible on shipping. Not anymore, sadly.
I should not have had the revised Inside Macintosh (9vv) without sea-mail. But sea-mail was a two-edged sword. One package never arrived, always supposing that the lack-lustre seller thought to post it at all. Out of more than 750 eBay purchases I have consciously opted for sea-mail only seven times: range 50-89 days, with an average of 76 days. And then there have been the occasions when USPS sent packages, paid at airmail rates, by sea.
de
It looks like a fan speed controller.
I don't know about $100. A circuit board is going to cost $10 - $20 in quantities of 200. The PDS connector will be about $5 - $7. A Xilinx FPGA to do most of the heavy lifting will run around $15 - $20. Some memory to use as GRAM (Graphics RAM) will be another $5 - $20 (uncertainty there because of sooooo many price/performance trade-offs). DACs will run another $5 - $15 (uncertainty because I haven't researched DACs much). Then miscellaneous connectors for video out (support for external monitor), that back of the CRT connector (is that still available?) and cable harness plugs and receptacles will probably add another $20. Then add in miscellaneous components such as a few PLDs to sort out some of the PDS addressing and caps and resistors and such for another $5 - $10.Grayscale video for the SE/30 though is more true to the definition of "rare" than most other items I've seen on EBAY.
Now won't one of you out there just build us a $100 copy of the video board and grayscale card and drivers so we can all enjoy grayscale?!
So you get a minimum *Parts* cost of $65 and a high end of $112 per unit. And that's just for parts. No assembly or reimbursement for skull sweat and development. And there will be costs for development, such as an FPGA development kit for $100 - $200. Some custom circuit boards to interface the FPGA development board to the PDS slot and some more circuit boards for prototypes. Each set of test/prototype circuit boards will cost about $200.
So material costs for development will easily reach $1000. And the material costs in the first paragraph are for 100 or 200 units, so one is looking at investing $6500 - $22,400 up front for materials before selling a unit.
I'm not sure one could even make it pay with those numbers. The problem is that there may not even be 100 people willing to pay $100 per upgrade.
When I built and sold 16 MB SIMMs for the IIFX, I was able to sell 28 sets before the price dropped below $50 per set of four SIMMs. Are there four to eight times as many folks interested in upgrades for the SE/30 as there are for the IIfx?
You could cut some of the costs from my estimate a little, because I've assumed a fairly powerful FPGA to allow very fast work and gates available for hardware based Quickdraw acceleration. And I've assumed 4 - 8 MB of GRAM so that a large external monitor can be supported in millions of colors as well as the internal grayscale at 256 shades.
But those two components are not that huge a percentage of the cost and they can't be shrunk tremendously (see FPGA I/O pin discussion below). Other parts are necessities and simply cannot be discarded. One must have a PDS connector and connectors to the CRT yoke and for the external monitor and cable harness connectors.
The PLDs to help with the addressing are not strictly necessary; that work can easily be done inside the FPGA. Here's the problem. Once you get beyond about 150 I/O pins on an FPGA the only package available is BGA. I can't solder BGAs at home and paying someone else to do so in small quantities is very expensive. So we're limited to about 150 I/O pins (that's a 208 pin total package) for the FPGA.
There are around 96 or 97 relevant pins on the PDS slot. Thirty-two of which are addressing pins and another thirty-two of which are data pins. You can cut out several of the addressing pins by letting a PLD handle the high order addressing bits. Your video card is only being addressed for one value of some number of the high order bits, so a PLD can watch those address bits for the value and signal accordingly.
Then there are some number of pins needed to output the data to the digital to analog (DAC) converters which signal the CRT(s). This number could range from 24 pins (full parallel output of all color data) to three pins (serial output of each color separately). With a fast FPGA and fast GRAM, this can probably be kept to three pins. Or four pins when you add the output to the grayscale adapter.
There may be other digital output pins needed to drive the CRT, but I'm not that well educated yet.
Then you need an interface to the GRAM which could use as many as 23 address pins (8 megabytes) plus 24 or 32 data pins.
So you've got 90 (PDS) + 4 (DAC) + 23 + 24 I/O pins needed on the FPGA which is about 140 I/O pins. Plus there are probably a few more needed for the display output that I just don't know about yet. Oh and we didn't allow anything for WE, CE, OE or RS on the GRAM, nor for an interface to a firmware container (EEPROM or Flash).
I don't know how Micron managed with 100 pins on their Exceed chip. IIRC it has only 100 pins on the main chip. On the other hand there are quite a few PLDs on the board. Also, one could use a combined data bus for both the PDS slot and the GRAM and use muxes with enable signals to avoid signal interference. But that has problems if your memory bus clock speed is much different from your PDS bus clock speed (16 MHz.).
Okay, I've wandered off of cost and am just babbling about design trade offs and issues. I'd be happy to read any additions or comments.
Was that the fellow on the Classic Computers email list? Have you ever heard back from him. I haven't heard in a while. I should email him.I have talked to the Micron Engineer who has the plans for those boards, waiting to hear when he is shipping them over (unless something happened). Was supposed to get all kind of docs/drivers/cards from him.
If I do get the schematics I will post them all. So maybe somebody could make a few hundred and send me one.
Nope havn't heard back (or seen him on the list either).