G3 owners rejoice!!!

I can't really see that there would be any reason to get that though, given that even the impossible-to-find Zif G4 upgrades for beigeys can be had cheaper than that, and while it might not be as fast it does future-proof your machine by allowing it to run AltiVec software.

I would have thought you'd be happy to hear that with all the hate you put out towards the G4 in prior threads.

I was just saying that I couldn't really see why you would get one of these when the G4 Zif would probably be a better option overall. The whole G3/G4 thing is just that my G3 feels so blazingly fast that I can't see the point in G4s really (unless you're doing really heavy-duty stuff on your Mac), especially considering that they typically cost money to acquire whereas G3s are free these days, and it greatly irritates me that Apple realise this and so have decided to forcibly make newer Macs have a point by deliberately engineering their recent software to not run at all on G3s. I don't hate the G4 CPU, I would definitely give my G3 a G4 brain if they weren't crazy prices, I just wouldn't buy a G4 machine and the G3 series machines are my favourites anyway, they are all such classic designs.

er...1.0 and 1.1GHz G3 upgrades have been around for...like two years now.

get with the times man

besides, what you WANT is this: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Sonnet%20Technology/EG410001MU/

the G4 upgrade is unstable at best in a Beige G3 system. you would prolly be more happier with that G3 1ghz upgrade. allot of lockup's in Os 9.2.2 slow performance in OS 9.2.2 and OS X cause even tho the software is installed sometimes it only uses 32k out of the 64k available for the L1 cache and sometimes it uses no L2 cache and it showes up as a 60x series of cpu. that is cause the rom and OF only has info for the 60x and G3 cpu's. it will use altvec tho but that wont help much if the cpu is only halfway seen by the system.

i dont know how many people on http://discussions.apple.com complain about the software to enable the G4 1ghz zif upgrade in OS 9. cause you have to remove allot of extensions from the system that basically makes it almost unusable.

i would rather stick with a G3 upgrade in a Beige G3 than go with the G4 upgrade. now if it was a B&W or Yikes G4 then i would upgrade to that cpu cause you can flash the B&W to be able to see a G4 in OF. and the yikes G4 system already supports a G4 cpu and both will see a G4 CPU fully but the system bus will be slowed down to 66mhz due to a bug in the grackle IC

the G4 upgrade is unstable at best in a Beige G3 system. you would prolly be more happier with that G3 1ghz upgrade. allot of lockup's in Os 9.2.2 slow performance in OS 9.2.2 and OS X cause even tho the software is installed sometimes it only uses 32k out of the 64k available for the L1 cache and sometimes it uses no L2 cache and it showes up as a 60x series of cpu. that is cause the rom and OF only has info for the 60x and G3 cpu's. it will use altvec tho but that wont help much if the cpu is only halfway seen by the system.

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What are you smoking?

Seriously, stop spreading FUD. I've got one of these, do you? I can testify from first hand experience that the card is perfect stable in a beige G3 (a Rev A even!).

Peace,

Drew

I can back Drew up on this. We had a lab full of these (too bad they were scrapped before I could get my hands on 'em!). They were completely stable compu-beasts. I can't say that no one anywhere on the planet had the problems you were discussing, but I can say that I never encountered anything remotely similar to those things. And I can also say that the claim about the cache only being half-used does not have the ring of truth (given how cache hits and misses are handled) leading me to regard the rest of that list with a skeptical eye.

ok explain this

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=4324752#4324752

or this

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=810611&tstart=15

or this

the G4 cpu upgrade i had did the same thing and the only way to fix it was to remove a few extensions from being loaded which took away from away from the performance of the OS. this was on a new install of OS 9.2.2, i tryed it in tiger and the cpu enabler would not even work , yes i was useing the correct version of it. but i got tired of not being able to use it.or using a hampered OS. so i got a refund on it.

my problems all went away once i put a G3 cpu back into it. and regained full OS performance. the problem lies with the ATI extensions and sonnets extensions. i tryed running the G4 upgrade without the enabler installed both OSes would work but would be like i disabled acceleration in the ATI config panel in OS 9.x OS X would be dog slow like i was running it on a 100mhz cpu or in safe mode.

to me the G4 upgrade for the Beige G3 is crap. i will stick with a G3 upgrade for a Beige G3. now if i got the G4 upgrade for a Yikes or B&W with the hacked firmware then it would work correctly due to the fact the software enabler dont have to do much to enable the cpu cause the system already sees it as a G4 cpu and adjusts the software clock multiplier.

for me with the hampered OS 9.2.2 with the sonnet software running and the cpu working i was only shown 32k l1 cache and no L2 cache and showed up as a 60x series of cpu's. i checked over and over in the config utility that everything that was checked was checked and enabled but changed nothing about the cache issues.

ALK if your's works good then more power to you. cause mine was a total waste of my time.

Wow, a whole two threads!

1) It sounds like both problems are actually video card (ATI in particular) related.

2) With any upgrade, there are bound to be some dissatisfied users and defective products. My personal experience happens to be in the majority, but any one anecdote (whether mine, yours, or the people on Apple's discussion boards) is statistically insignificant in the big scheme of things. Sonnet is traditionally VERY GOOD at what they do. They produce top notch, high quality, and well supported products.

I had some trouble getting all my cards to work together. I had an ATI Radeon 9200, Sonnet Tempo Trio, FWB Jackhammer, and Sonnet 1 GHz G4. In the end, some creative troubleshooting, assistance from Sonnet (ATI was no help, literally - they never responded to my requests for help so shame on ATI), and shuffling of cards resulted in a very stable and VERY FAST beige G3 system. Being an owner of a Rev A G3 from 1997 (yes, I actually bought it NEW in '97), I've got a pretty good handle on these systems. I know them inside and out. And I've never had any trouble with stability on one with a G4 CPU. One thing you absolutely have to do if you have an aftermarket ATI card is disable ALL the OEM ATI extensions. They'll constantly crash your machine or even prevent it from booting!

As for your other issues...

for me with the hampered OS 9.2.2 with the sonnet software running and the cpu working i was only shown 32k l1 cache and no L2 cache and showed up as a 60x series of cpu's. i checked over and over in the config utility that everything that was checked was checked and enabled but changed nothing about the cache issues.

Click to expand...

What config utility?! Sonnet has the motto "Simply fast" for a reason - their upgrades are simple. They DO NOT MAKE A CONFIG UTILITY. Perhaps that's the source of your problem...

Also, ASP stinks at recognizing CPU upgrades. I recommend instead that you check Metronome or Gauge Pro (it'll have to be a very new version to recognize a 1 GHz G4 - can't remember if my copy would do so correctly). Either of those should accurately detect the CPU speed, L1 cache size, L2 cache size, and L3 cache size (if applicable).

Peace,

Drew

i could have linked to more than just 2 post's but what would the point of doing that. i proved my point with 2

i tried shuffling the cards around tried removing all the cards. but it still didnt change the lockup. it would freeze at extension loadup or at the desktop. with those ATI extensions disabled you could not run much. i have and play allot of games in OS 9.2.2 and i could not enjoy any cause of what you had to do to fix the problem.

it really pissed me off, so i chose then to only stick with a G3 cpu upgrade. and i have heard reports of them doing the same thing. this AIO must not want to be upgraded any farther than a G3 series of CPU. like i said before in another toppic. the Beige G3 system is a very weird system. you can have 2 of the same rev of rom's and same rev of mobo's and both act totally different like one could use a piece of hardware the other freaked out about. these systems are very unpredictable. my main AIO installed tiger rather easily. wile other's will refuse to.

my other AIO is identical (rev wise rom and mobo) to this one and it would not install tiger at all. it installed jaguar without a hitch. wile the one i am useing now refused a jag install.

in a way i am still really pissed about it. oh and by the way i dont smoke anything illegal or use anything illegal.

l we are all in the same boat. i know allot about the Beige G3 system and you know allot about them as well so damn chill out alk. i didn't get my system upgraded this far by not knowing anything or not studying about it. there is still stuff i can learn and there is stuff you can learn.

er...1.0 and 1.1GHz G3 upgrades have been around for...like two years now.
get with the times man

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Yes, but they haven't been sold for a while OWC has just recently brought them back, which was the point of the post, to make people aware they are back if anyone want's them.

i am going to buy one when i have the money. i wish they still had the G3 1.1ghz version

i am going to buy one when i have the money.

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Surely for that much money you could buy quite a high-end G4 machine though, which would run a wider range of software now that they're trying to kill the G3?

Here's some benchmarks

http://tinyurl.com/2busel

You can see the G3 is actully pulling down some respectable scores, even compared with the 1ghz G4 Sonnet upgrade.

Those benchmarks are very strange - why does the worst-specced Mac boot OS X the quickest? And mine only takes about 70 seconds to boot Tiger, and they're saying their G4 took longer than that! It looks as though the G4 is only significantly faster for specific things, like Photoshop tasks (which is presumably optimised for AltiVec) - though of course iLife '06, Toast 7+, Leopard etc have all been kicked off the G3 by their makers (mainly Apple) :'(

One thing to note about the Sonnet G4 1 GHz upgrade is that it downclocks the bus to 66 MHz on a B&W or Yikes! machine. I suppose this makes manufacturing easier, and it is in tradition with Sonnet's zero-configuration upgrades. Nevertheless, I don't know the actual reason Sonnet designed the card this way. I think that the 700 MHz and 800 MHz G4 upgrades also clock down the system bus to 66 MHz. In fact, I think the fastest you can go with a G4 ZIF on a 100 MHz bus is 600 MHz with the XLR8/Daystar 7410 G4 ZIF upgrade. No one but Sonnet makes anything faster than that, and Sonnet's upgrades are locked to 66 MHz.

Peace,

Drew

One thing to note about the Sonnet G4 1 GHz upgrade is that it downclocks the bus to 66 MHz on a B&W or Yikes! machine. I suppose this makes manufacturing easier, and it is in tradition with Sonnet's zero-configuration upgrades. Nevertheless, I don't know the actual reason Sonnet designed the card this way. I think that the 700 MHz and 800 MHz G4 upgrades also clock down the system bus to 66 MHz. In fact, I think the fastest you can go with a G4 ZIF on a 100 MHz bus is 600 MHz with the XLR8/Daystar 7410 G4 ZIF upgrade. No one but Sonnet makes anything faster than that, and Sonnet's upgrades are locked to 66 MHz.
Peace,

Drew

Click to expand...

It's a bug in the way the G4 interacts with the bridge chip on the B&W and the Yikes! motherboards. The page I linked to the OWC site talks about it. There is a way around it but requires additional circuitry on the upgrade board which adds to the cost and results in the lower bus speed, otherwise the G4 can't be made to work with those systems.

Those benchmarks are very strange - why does the worst-specced Mac boot OS X the quickest? And mine only takes about 70 seconds to boot Tiger, and they're saying their G4 took longer than that! It looks as though the G4 is only significantly faster for specific things, like Photoshop tasks (which is presumably optimised for AltiVec) - though of course iLife '06, Toast 7+, Leopard etc have all been kicked off the G3 by their makers (mainly Apple) :'(

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the Beige G3 AIO in my sig can boot tiger 10.4.10 in under 30 seconds. before i upgraded my ram to 768mb i had 448mb ram and my friend stopped by my house showing off his DA G4 466mhz with 512mb ram we booted the same time which was around 34-36 seconds. but in games he could run more a bit faster than i could but not by much.

One thing to note about the Sonnet G4 1 GHz upgrade is that it downclocks the bus to 66 MHz on a B&W or Yikes! machine. I suppose this makes manufacturing easier, and it is in tradition with Sonnet's zero-configuration upgrades. Nevertheless, I don't know the actual reason Sonnet designed the card this way. I think that the 700 MHz and 800 MHz G4 upgrades also clock down the system bus to 66 MHz. In fact, I think the fastest you can go with a G4 ZIF on a 100 MHz bus is 600 MHz with the XLR8/Daystar 7410 G4 ZIF upgrade. No one but Sonnet makes anything faster than that, and Sonnet's upgrades are locked to 66 MHz.
Peace,

Drew

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Yes, and the G3 upgrade from Powerlogix DOES NOT do this, it stays at 100MHZ, a significant difference.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/PowerLogix/PFZGX10001M/
OtherWorld Computing is selling 1ghz G3 ZIF upgrades.

8-o

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BTW, where did you get this info, I posted it on LEM when I emailed Dan, who runs the site, about it. Or did you just dicover it by surfing on OWC?

he maybe just stumbled over it from surfing on OWC. i find myself surfing and looking at stuff like this

the Beige G3 AIO in my sig can boot tiger 10.4.10 in under 30 seconds

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Wow, how do you get it so fast? (presumably you're timing from pressing the power button to getting a full desktop?) I think mine's a similar spec to yours so should really be about the same speed (though the hard drive is probably slow on mine as it's some old 12 GB thing).

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/PowerLogix/PFZGX10001M/
OtherWorld Computing is selling 1ghz G3 ZIF upgrades.

8-o

Click to expand...

BTW, where did you get this info, I posted it on LEM when I emailed Dan, who runs the site, about it. Or did you just dicover it by surfing on OWC?

Click to expand...

I'm always looking for new entries on the sites that sell Mac stuff. Some things aren't as newsworthy as this, so I don't bother reporting it, but I know that the old 1.1ghz G3 was/is a high demand item, so I thought this was worth posting.

yea my time is from pressing the power button to fully functioning 10.4.10. i think they discontinued the 1.1ghz cpu cause you cant find it. you can only find the 1ghz version. either or will be fine. but i would probably buy the 1ghz since it will be cheaper. most games dont take advantage of altvec anyway most of the games i have run on my system as it is (sept for halo) some are a bit slower than others. my system will play QIII A and return to castle wolfenstine (they use the same engine).

i dont plan on using any altvec enabled software on this system. that is what i have aG4 system for when it gets built. the 1ghz G3 cpu will speed up VLC to make the video play smooth and make the games play good.

i dont need a G4 system really but they are nice to have when doing altvec enabled software to get a speed boost from.

i ran the powerlogix g3 in my beige and then put the g4 in because my brother and i traded. he wants to push the bus back up to 100Mhz.... G4 screams compared to the g3 when having more than one app open.

as for in os 9, I did have the lock up problem with both cpus and it was an ATi driver. I disabled those extensions and installed the drivers off of the ATi CD that came with the card and now everything runs PERFECTLY.

Also games like UT 2k4 and Call of Duty use altivec and having the g4 makes the game playable.

I have a 500Mhz G4 ZIF in my BeigeMT system and it is stable as a rock. It is paired with a sonnet ATA/133 card and the 32MB PCI Rage Orion card. While I wouldn't mind a 1GHz G4 or G3 in my Beige tower, I can't justify the cost of such an upgrade for a machine which is not my main rig.

Now if I could find a faster CPU for less then $100 I might be more inclined to purchase it.

That being said a friend of mine does have a 1GHz G3 in his Rev A Beige tower and man that sucker screams. I haven't done any head to head benchmarks between his system and mine, but his feels quicker in the finder and most apps, whereas mine can play Deus Ex at a higher FPS, so go figure.

What Temetka wrote in his first para. I'd also install a faster CPU at an advantageous price, but the MT is a backup rig for sound, and the DT is without any dedicated job, at the moment.

The greatest heartburn that I've had has been from the incompatibilty of the MT's Rev. C ROM with a Sonnet Tempo Trio card. The failure is absolute. A subdued chime is followed by infinite inactivity. Rev. A ROM is no better. Pity, because the Trio would spare the third PCI slot for a 10/100 NIC, given that the first is occupied by a Radeon 7000 with DVI out. Otherwise the two non-video slots have to be ATA-100 and combo USB/FireWire.

de

... as for in os 9, I did have the lock up problem with both cpus and it was an ATi driver. I disabled those extensions and installed the drivers off of the ATi CD that came with the card and now everything runs PERFECTLY ...

Click to expand...

I have a 500Mhz G4 ZIF in my BeigeMT system and it is stable as a rock. It is paired with a sonnet ATA/133 card and the 32MB PCI Rage Orion card ...

Click to expand...

It was alk's comment in another thread about Apple-included (ie, marked as part of an Apple OS in Get Info.) that set me on the path of salvation. With a Sonnet G4 ZIF and ATA-100 card, a Rev. C ROM and a Radeon 7000, either Apple's or ATi's ATI Graphics Accelerator was a killer. There was no getting past the resulting bus error (Type 1) at the end of the splash screen as long as it was present. Ditch it. Be on your guard that ATi's software installer may reinstall it. I take with a grain of salt ATi's claim that un-needed extensions do not interfere, because it does not accord with my experience. Then replace every Apple-designated CP (one) and extension with the corresponding (and newer) ATi equivalents.

In my case, for the reason above about interference, that set of extensions reduces to ATI Extension, ATI Guide, ATI Monitor, ATI Radeon 3D Accelerator, ATI ROM Xtender, OpenGLRendererATI and ATI Video Accelerator. From that stable, even if limited base, it is possible to add in other extensions, one at a time, to test them.

This means that the standard installation of OS 9.2.2 will be missing ATI 3D Accelerator, ATI MPP Manager, ATI Driver Update, ATI Rage 128 3D Accelerator and ATI Resource Manager. Your results may vary according to your card and your need for 3D acceleration, but I have found that Apple's set, intended for a G3, does not suit an upgrade to a G4.

de