Will there ever be official Apple support for themes?

It does think different...by not letting us theme Aqua

XP also requires you to either buy 3rd party software, or hack system files to use 3rd party skins. Although MS didnt purposly hide system hooks either, so I guess it does make it a bit easier to customize Windows with skinning software. But MS still doesnt support skinning the OS by any means other than their own skinning engine and Luna.

The reason given is that there would be too many support issues if they allowed open, non-restricted OS skinning.

So dont count on Apple ever allowing it for the same reasons.

*edit* and by support skinning I mean, have people make skins for use with the MS theme engine. WB is supported by MS, but stardock also has to deal with the flack if something goes wrong, and not MS

Chris

They will release other colors in the future, but they will not stray from aqua. Instead, aqua will progress much like the "Platinum" theme did for the mac operating systems previous to OS X.

The reason Apple doesn't support themes is so it has a total free hand with the look of OSX. Look at the Extras.rsrc for example, anyone who has even contemplated creating a Theme realises that this is a fairly complicated and essential file. With themeing unsupported Apple can do what it likes with this, it can add, move, erase and alter any of the elements in this file, it can do what it likes to change Aqua elements how it sees fit (e.g. the new Widgets for the 'textured' apps that appeared in 10.2.3 or the entire 'Textured app' option introduced with 10.2). If theming became Apple sanctioned this file would become 'Locked', with Apple unable to make any changes, no matter how small. This creates unflappability for Apple, they have nothing to gain in making Themes official.

I wish that theming was easier and approved by Apple so it worked better and easier and wasn't constantly broken by updates, but I also have to admit that at least some of the excitement of theming is doing something 'taboo'. Almost like being a computer 'hacker' without having to do something truly evil. If Apple finally approved of it and released an application to make and install themes along with a slew of Apple-brand themes, it would take some of the magic out of it.

Although I think Apple hates themers for messing with their Aqua designs. I think that Apple will eventually give in and allow some customizations. I LOVE themes. I think themes give our computers a sense of identity, a sense of this is mine and this is how I like it, kind of thing. I think Apple can learn alot from these creative individuals.

I believe as OS X matures, and as compitition gets stronger for theming (XP, Linux) And customer demand there will be support.

Looks like I voted with the (thus far) losing camp. I believe Apple will make the Appearance Manager available again at a (much) later date. Problem is, they have made some drastic changes, added new APIs that hook into it (Cocoa and Java to name two that are large and wildly different from Carbon), and besides, they currently have several other hot priorities.

Apple has a very nice looking interface right now, and allowing users to easily make it uglier (joke, calm down) doesn't net them marketshare, mindshare, or cash. Ironically buzzwords like preemptive multitasking (bad example), P2P, MP3, instant messaging, directory services, and extreme whatever (most of which are embodied in OS X as fledgling, infant technologies) *are* bringing in marketshare, mindshare, and cash. The really funny thing is, so many other companies are having such a hard time basing business models on hype and buzzwords nowadays. Go figure. I mean Go Apple!

I think that Apple will eventually get some pretty loud complaints about the "distracting" nature of Aqua. Then they will open up the Appearance Manager APIs just enough to port platinum properly (opaque 1-pixel shadows, window borders, default buttons that don't require 64 MB of VRAM, maybe even outline dragging and resizing). This will, of course, happen once the System 6 interface *ahem*quark*cough* fans move over in full force, which will most likely happen shortly after the new IBM chip reaches 3 GHz, 6 months before the Quark 9.5 public alpha test pre-order pre-announcement announcement is made (with beta testing just finishing up on 9.4, the first fully Classic-compatible version (now with more restrictive lisencing, video export, text messaging, and downloadable ring tones!)).

Apple will have no choice but to listen to the desktop publishing mafia. Otherwise 1 Infinite Loop will surely be suicide bombed. If suicide bombing is still the "in" thing to do in 7893. Unless of course we are no longer publishing printed works in 7893. Then we'll just have a lot of pissed off useless 5000 year old hungry people with no actual computer literacy.

Does anyone know how this turned into a Quark rant? D'oh, better start tying this together...here goes... That's what I think: Quark is directly responsible for the lack of theme support, a problem which will be resolved once they stop dilly-dallying.

In conclusion: I'm optimistic. But not overly so. Aye. Stick that in your theme hole! Raphsodized rules! Was that too over the top?

Either option 1 or 2, but not option 3. Why? Because of consistency. It's why SimpleAqua is the only theme I really ever use.

The irony of the question makes me chuckle. The only reason why apple wouldn't support themes is to keep a standard UI. If someone phones up apple support and the tech tells them to click the red button on a window to close it and they are running some wacky theme then things can get complicated.

Actually most anyone that USED themes would probably not be confused by such a question, IMHO of course.

Imagine this: your OS is so ugly that thousands of users go to extreme measures to change it even at risk of rendering their computer a pile a molten goo. Same with Windows. One would imagine that not one of the people who worked on the XP gui (mainly execs) would have been jumping for joy when over 100,000 users downloaded hte Aqua skin for XP. It just states that the gui was poorly done and everyone wants to be rid of it. Obviously not an image Apple wants to have. Not to mention that when theming gets easier themes become common place for novice users. Everytime an ugly theme is used its spreading that image... not to mention reducing recognizability.

People love Aqua. So much that the most used themes simply change Aqua slightly. Aqua was not hatched by some designer using ThemePark, it was done by a team of pro's. Simply put, without teamwork it would be impossible to create an interface as widely acceptable as Aqua.

I don't think Aqua will remain the same forever. Its very likely that it'll eventually undergo major changes to its look... probably to match hardware.

You're insane! Teams of pro's don't come up with good stuff. The Pontiac Aztek was done by a team of pro's. Lone designers with a vision create great stuff! The Classic Mac look was obviously done by a guy with a great idea. Aqua is not a great idea, it's 6 over-the-top ideas all smashed into one. Yes, a team of pro's did it, but each one had enough power or there was such a great 'team' that no clear direction was taken and everything was thrown into the mix with actual usability taking a back seat. Whoever came up with those blinding white stripes, frameless windows, and transparent titlebars should be banned forever! The hue and cry over them started on day one... terrible terrible design. I bet Apple sales would be double if people didn't see Aqua when they went to the Apple store, and OSX sales would be triple.

We're talking about an interface thats acceptable to the masses. I'll bet that statistically more people use Aqua on a constant basis than any other theme (barring Aqua variants). Obviously not all teamwork yields great results, and certainly designers didn't decide the functionality of OS X itself. You cite the Aztek, when in fact teams of designers have come up with countless other fantastic designs. Personally I think the Aztek looks rushed, like someone just mass produced a prototype, but thats another thread. True enough, some lone designers make great stuff. Its just not always pleasing to everyone. Designers work towards perfection, when in the case of Aqua they had to work towards something widely acceptable. Surely Aqua is overdue for a make-over but it has certainly set a standard, one that even PC weenies want.

There is one way in which Apple could appease everyone. Simply make theme impossible for third-parties to make while creating a couple of other interface options tucked in the General prefs, such as window borders, a smaller gui (Aqua elements are huge) and a few carefully designed themes. Hell, even throw in an option to have the menubar on application windows instead of atop the screen. It would make OS X truly one of the most adaptive GUI's.

At the same time, killing all the remaining usability...remember something called "consistency"? The more "adaptive" you make it, the less consistent it gets. What do you think is it that makes KDE so horrible? Too many options.

Good point. Still a handful of options tucked away would be worth it.

That's it you're banned from the GUI customiztion board forever for even suggesting that!



I remember people saying that before. OSX is exactly the same size as OS9 isn't it?

Nope, actually every part of it is much larger than OS 9.

Again, you're insane. Almost everything is the same identical size. The fonts make the menus a little longer, and the widgets are a little wider spaced, but everything else is the same isn't it. In fact the lack of windowframes open up more room! What'cha talking about Willis? Every part of it is much larger? Please explain!

Infact the Aqua GI has a right to be bigger (not that it is). Remember the original Mac OS was designed for Apple Macintoshes with built in 9" screens that ran at a real low resolution,