Good Dog

My dog (a black Labrador) would LOVE doing this. Assuming that the weapons smelled like bacon.

Springers are work dogs. They LOVE doing this stuff. LIVE to do it. And the military dog handlers (I hesitate to use the word) love these animals desperately and I have NEVER seen an exception. I would rather see a dog in the hands of one of these military or police handlers than in the hands of half of the people in this world who have dogs. The care and love they receive is unquestioned. The dogs love the work.
So. I am an animal rights activist. You've heard me.

Next question?

PETA already made comments about the "embedded dolphins" according to The Smoking Gun.

Maury

I was talking about the Ratical Faction of Animal rights Activists like many of the PETA people.

YOu are right though I would rather seem the in the hands of Military handlers and Police handlers than some of the people who own dogs.

OK. No problem. Please do me the favor of specifying, though.
I am an animal rights Joe. Not all of us carry it to an extreme.

Usually when I talk about Animal Rights people I am talking about the Wackos. I'm an animall rights person in a Way. I love animals as much as the next person.

True. When I was doing my time in the SAF(Swedish Air Force) I controlled a German Sheperd(sp?). It was great, the dog loved the challenges we gave him and seemed to generally like his role in the squad. These human rights people tend to forget that many domestic animals are bred(sp again?) for us humans. They wouldn't be here if it weren't for us. The dogs for example are trained and bred(sp please correct me if that is wrong) to be loyal to humans and work for us. I hate this PETA shite. Of course we should take care of animals and try to treat them well, but people like them are fanatics.

Well, my friend, you just explained why so many of us get pissy about animal abuse- in my case, particularly dog abuse.
Dogs live at the whim of man. Absolute trust. Abuse of that is, in my book, an offense which would make me shed not a tear to see the offender removed from this plane of existence.
It is simple preying on that which one percieves as weak and it is detestable.
Animal abuse and child abuse are in the same book, as far as I am concerned. Different chapter. Same book.
People choose their paths. Children and dogs rely on us to choose well for them.

I agree. Animal and Child abuse are in the smae book. Humans are here to take care of Animals and children. We should work on protecting them but in somecases if it is going to be them or us it is going to be them in my book though If I could prevent it I surely would.

Dogs I know WILL give you there unconditional love and loyalty and as you said that should not be abused.

Back OT- cool story!

Yeah He earned his treats that day. That's for sure

puppy cookies and Frosty Paws all around. My treat!

I found it funny when he said the dog is getting more treats than he. Sounds like he might be a little jealous of the dog, in a good way.

I find it odd that his daughter send him dog treats.

I hope it didn't sound like I liked the fact that we have raised and bred dogs to be as submissive and obidient as they are.

I completely agree that dog-abuse is awful and is very close to child-abuse in the "book". When I see people treating dogs like they are an object and your property I feel like teaching them a lesson in how it feels to be beaten up. It is horrible to see how some "raise" their dogs. In my training I never had to lay a hand on the dog I was asigned. Dogs become obidient when they respect and trust you, not when they are afraid. If you teach your dog to be afraid of you it will eventually bite you in the a$$ But the fact remains that we have dogs that have for ages been trained and bred(is this the right word??) for us. That is something we can't change now.

the onion on dolphins in the military seeking mines:
"I gave up canned tuna for the dolphins, and now they're just blowing them to ****?"

Ever notice how if people abuse an animal, the left wing wacko's of peta scream bloody murder (as they should, since I too am owned by more then one dog) but when a brutal dictator murders, rapes and torutes children, they are strangely silent.

I read a story in my local newspaper today, about an iraq defector whose younger brother was left brain damaged and maimed after being kivked in the head multiple times by iraqi soldiers in order to get information from the parents. The child was 1 year old when it happened. But sure we'll keep trying diplomacy after 12 years of this.

Look I'm getting tired of this. There are "wacko" radicals on both sides of the spectrum, many of whom will conveniently ignore reality whenever it clashes with their political agendas. Don't forget that the Nazi's were a right-wing organization.

The point still being; people are willing to protest and scream when an animal is abused, but they sit on their hands while children are being massacred.

No argument there. My problem is with all the labels being tossed around, as if these people are representantive of all liberals.

If Bush was killing those children you'd see outrage. But no, it's just some ruthless dictator in the middle east, no need to do anything about it.

Good point, and I meant no such label of all liberals.

I don't think most Americans cared in the late 90s about what was going on outside their country before the events of 9/11.

You've got to get a perspective on this, Americans start flinching the moment anyone outside their country critisizes how it is run.

You guys are actually going more than a step further than that with Iraq...

I guess the question is, if Bush became an evil tyrant who started an evil regime of opression, torture, and rape etc would you mind if the Europeans landed in your country and bombed the Whitehouse and the Pentagon to liberate it?

OK, kid. THAT is not the topic here. AT ALL. It serves nothing but fan flamage.
As for PETA- well, they pick their cause. This is NOT their cause.
By the by, I actually know more than a few RIGHT leaning "wackos" in PETA. MORE than a few. I also know more than a few centrist PETA wackos. And leftist.
These generalizations can do nothing but prove ignorance.

Another grand generalization. Please to show me the numbers. And research. You make the statement SO definitively.
For ****S sake.
"ever notice how this entire group of people who do not share my opinion are
a) stupid
b) biased
c) stupid?"

Ever notice that people who make rash genralizations are not NEARLY as smart as they think they are and, indeed, are more guilty of promoting divisiveness than those they rail against?

Bzzzzzt you mean the administration at the time didn't care.

No, because we have the ability to get rid of him ourselves. That is what a democracy is good for.

Ever notice how when people can't back their argument in logic and facts, the accuse the other of making stuff up and insulting their intelligence?


Heres some example of PETA being more worried about animals then children suffering

http://www.peta.org/alert/automatio...Item.asp?id=686

http://www.peta.org/liv/c/66.html

And heres another far Left group that is more worried about tree's then children.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/Eco-Terror.htm

Oh, and here's a article in Salon about Bill Maher and his views on the war in iraq, and why we shouldn't go in. Should I mention that he is the celebrity spokesman for PETA?

http://www.safesearching.com/billma...alon_032103.htm

As I said PETA has its focus.
As does EarthWatch.
As does the DoD.
As does DARPA
As does the AMC.
As does the American Red Cross.
As does Save the Children.

The American Red Cross is not so very interested in preventing the Peruvian Army from slicing and dicing dogs as a training tactic. PETA is. PETA is not focused on making sure children with learning disabilities are well tended under section 504... or that children are not abused.
DARPA has no mission or desire to be sure the Horned Owl is not killed off. Earthwatch is only interested in war as it effects the environment. THESE GROUPS HAVE A FOCUS.

See where I am going? Of course, because you will see what you want- because you will form the story into whatever shape fits your view, I suppose you could construe the AMCs lack of focus on the welfare children of the Eastern US as not caring for them as much as they care for piles of rock. That is, based even on your links, what you seem to be saying.
I have a child. I am focused solely on her upbringing. Does that mean I want to see the rest of the neighborhood kids dead?
Really, your argument is beyond absurd, now. I work for the DoD. Does that mean I want to see children in Iraq killed because I work for the institution charged with the defense of my home land?

You present me with links that show PETA to be outraged at the use of animals in a warzone and you transform this into a lack of care for children? WOW.

Bill Maher has his opinion like everyone else and it is just as valid as yours. Did I mention I could care less who he spokes for? It is not relevant. What bearing has this tidbit?

HOWEVER. Since you brought it up, here's a quote:
"...let's just hold our breath and hope that the human suffering is minimal and then start arguing about what we do now that we own Iraq." Missed the mention of dolphins and the relation to dolphin killing. Could you point it out?

And for God's sake. Get yourself a copy of The Elements of Style

That enough Logic and Fact for you or shall we go on?

Typical answer

How can you have democracy under a regime of oppression and terror? - did you even read my question properly?

No, was the answer that I expected, and perhaps you can even begin to understand how some of the Iraqi people feel. Remember, no one bothered asked them if they wanted this war, they didn't even vote on it, the decision was made for them.

No one may have asked the Iraqi People if they wanted war but they Sure are enjoying it when Allied troops come in after there town has been liberated. People cheering, Dancing, helping the Allied forces find Republican Guard. There are countless stories of the Iraqi people not minding that they are being liberated.

Here's PETA's focus

"People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is a 501(c)(3) international nonprofit organization dedicated to exposing and eliminating animal abuse wherever it occurs. PETA uses public education, litigation, research and investigations, media campaigns, lobbying and grassroots organizing to accomplish its goal of protecting all species from exploitation and cruelty."


Notcie the words ALL SPECIES. Are Children not a species?

As far as the quote about my writing; again proof that when you know your losing an argument, insult the others intelligence. This is a message board, not an english paper.

This is your argument? "all species"? That's the best you can do and you insult MY ability to manage an argument?

PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS.

Animals. While, yes, technically we ARE animals, I think the spirit of the thing goes directly to the non humanoid types, as if you didn't already know that. C'mon. That's just pathetic. Now you're just trying to gain- say. What was that about "proof of losing an argument"? I'd say swinging about wildly would point in that direction.
"Ho! No you strike like a blind man: t'was the boy that stole your meat, and you'll beat the post."

Come back when you have a real argument, please. You insult your OWN intelligence. You don't need me to do it for you.

Oh, and NO, children are NOT a species. Back to Bio 101 with you.

Max Just curious as to what you think about the Military using Dolphins and sea lions to help them find Mines. Is PETA right for getting all bent out of shape about this?

There extremism on many things is what gives them a bad name. There is nothing wrong in my book for wanting to protect animals. We should all do it.

Children are not a species? I guess we have proof of how far people will go to stick blindly to their own beliefs, no matter how naive, and incorrectyou are. Indeed, lets go to biology 101 and find out if Humans are considered a species. They are the ones that put the words species in their statement, perhaps they should have used Animals instead. Species implies any living thing.

Dictionary.com definition for species.


spe�cies __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(spshz, -sz)
n. pl. species

Biology.
A fundamental category of taxonomic classification, ranking below a genus or subgenus and consisting of related organisms capable of interbreeding. See table at taxonomy.


An organism belonging to such a category, represented in binomial nomenclature by an uncapitalized Latin adjective or noun following a capitalized genus name, as in Ananas comosus, the pineapple, and Equus caballus, the horse.

Logic. A class of individuals or objects grouped by virtue of their common attributes and assigned a common name; a division subordinate to a genus.


1.A kind, variety, or type: ?No species of performing artist is as self-critical as a dancer? (Susan Sontag).


2.The human race; humankind.

Thats my point exactly, PETA and other liberal Animal and Environmental rights groups are perfectly happy to protest against animal cruelty, but when it comes to humans, somehow, they don't matter. "Sorry, its not on our agenda." Pathetic.

Must be nice for you to sit in your comfortable home and post your messages, safe in the knowledge that the government is not going to kick your door in and haul you away for your beliefs.

See my comment about the dogs. These dolphins have handlers and are treated EXTREMELY well. Would I rather have these animals no where near the war? Of course. I'd also rather have humans no where near it.
Personally, I am only mildly bent about it- but not from the standpoint you might think. This is man's war and it is just like humanity to drag in any and everything. TO me it is just another example of human arrogance.

Those dolphins do do a kick ass job, tho. From what I understand, they are so effective that the handlers are far more likely to get themselves whupped than the dolphins are.

PETA is like any other group. They have their extremists, they have their centrists. Not everyone in the organization is a full out nutjob. Hell, even the AMC has folks who strongly believe we should just shut down the entire Appalachian corridor (the baby killers).

My issue with PETA is that about half the time they are seriously counter productive and they do themselves more harm than anyone else. Of course, that just leaves folks to see the ugly stuff and avoid the good this group does. Hell, the US Government is pretty guilty of some seriously ugly stuff and will be in the future. It has its nutjobs, lefts and rights, centrists and partisans. It also has lots of caring and effective people. Just striking a parallel. I think the US government shoots itself in the foot on a regular basis as well- as often as it gives itself a shot in the arm.

Oh, my GOD.

CHILDREN. ARE. HUMAN. HUMANITY. IS. A. SPECIES.
Children are NOT, of themselves, a species.
A kid. A baby goat. Is that a subset of the species of GOAT?!?!?
Would you PLEASE just READ?!?!
C'mon. NOW you are just being OBTUSE.
Species: A grouping of animals or plants within a given GENUS. (OAD).

REALLY. This is just ridiculous.

Now. Shall I turn your "those who lose the argument resort to insulting tactics" yaddah yaddah back on you? Hypocrite.

Seriously. No goading, no implication: are you HONESTLY sitting there and telling me that children are a species in and of themselves? Honestly? Hey, look, I know I am nitpicking, here. I know EXACTLY what you meant. I just wanted to see how you'd defend it or even if you'd defend it. I truly expected you to say- "whoops- wrong word". But no. That ain't what you did. You just came out pell mell, guns a'blazin'. Well, OK. NOw I see what we are working with.
Sorry. Dirty trick, I know.

Oh. And I work for the Government. I'm currently in my office eating my lunch.

Man, you're just KILLIN' me.

As for agenda. You get a speeding ticket. You need to pay the ticket. Do you go to the HUD office? Well, you COULD, they ARE a branch of government, but they will probably direct you to the RMV and then giggle as you go out the door.
I think I may be out of analogies on this, but I'll make sure I keep at it if you keep coming back with this argument. I am not sure I have the skill to explain it any other way. But I am sure the rest of the folks reading this will be entertained.

Know what? I don't think even YOU believe your argument any more. It is, quite simply, entirely too absurd to be believed.

I'm agree with you here. So Far from what I hear they are 22 for 22 when it comes to finding mines in the war.

You know that I was not implying children were species in and of themselves. Now who is being obtuse.

A government worker, eh? I guess that explains alot.

Hm. WHERE did I get that idea.... hm...

Notcie the words ALL SPECIES. Are Children not a species?

_____________

Children are not a species? I guess we have proof of how far people will go to stick blindly to their own beliefs, no matter how naive, and incorrectyou are. Indeed, lets go to biology 101 and find out if Humans are considered a species.

Back atcha, hypocrite (referring to the insult tactic again- you know. In case you missed it).

Thanks, thanks, I'll be here all ze week.

Jeez. I thought you LIKED big GW, and my boss Donny Rumsfeld. Not a high opinion of your government, huh? Well, you can fix that with your vote next time 'round.
Circle up the wagons. Here we go again.

Well seeing as you've been posting all morning, it's no wonder that people complain that nothing gets done in government.

I on the other hand, am browsing on my own time.

If you want to resort to name calling and personal attacks, fine, I can play this game.

You are are a naive, piece of garbage so twisted in your own facts and blinded by your stupidity that you would rahter stick your head up your ass then admit to seeing tevil for what it is. To give a group like PETA who are constantly harping about abuse of animals and ignoring the plight of suffering children any credance, is despicable. How many of the members of PETA by there far left policitical stance are not also protesting against this war. I haven't seen any polls, but I'd would be willing to wager quite a few.

Moron.


(I will concede the argument, just because it felt to good to call you a dumbass. it was worth it.)

End of conversation

You're cool.
I see your own words were the most effective gasser for you.

Feels good to call names, huh? Yeah. Did when I was in Jr. High, too.

Well, as far as your little tirade about my job- My bosses have no complaint. Neither do my clients. Well, I'll just accept your lunatic rant as ignorance and petulance and remind you that it is "again proof that when you know your losing an argument, [you] insult the others intelligence" and "when people can't back their argument in logic and facts, the[y] accuse the other of making stuff up and insulting their intelligence".

Have a nice day.

Ouch. Bad. Mistake.

See? Toldja others were enjoying this little fete.
Oooo, the sublime wit.

I was covering my eyes. Can't stand the gore.

Hm. I gotta wash my hands.
[sing] WELL I'M PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN
WHERE I GET GOOD PROCESSED CHEESE [/sing]

That reminds me - I've found some organic, unpasteurised goats cheese today. Small farmer's market. Sensational smell. Even better taste.

Served for dinner with some fresh home made bread. And some fresh rocket leaves. Did I tell you I've got a bread-maker for my birthday? Worth every penny (that I didn't spend) for the smell alone.

.

YOU ane supposed to TELL people when it is your birthday. Goon.

I have no access to unpasturized dairy. I do, however, have a bread machine. This mean we'll be exchanging bread recipes like a coupla ole hens now?

I love it when maxelson gets fiesty. It's almost as good as when ms pandi rants.