Protesters: GO HOME!

< ^ real Americans

^real traitor.

anyone who wishes to eliminate freedom in this country goes against the real ideals of this country and is, in fact, doing more damage to this country than terrorists ever could.

Who said anything about eliminating freedom?

When a protester vandalizes the car of a military wife and blocks the intersection that I use to go to work he is infringing on MY FREEDOM!

The car thing was uncalled for and unfortunate.

Blocked intersections and public demonstrations are the price you pay for living in what is, ostensibly, a "democracy".

Live with it or lobby for loss of freedom of expression.

Or, as some notable right-wingers on these boards have put it, "if you don't like it, LEAVE."

-s*

I'll be the first to call "bullsh*t" on this one.

The same Left that wants to use RICO on anti-abortion protesters now thinks that it's the protester's "right" to lie down in the streets, chain themselves together, etc. Wrong! It isn't your right to lie in the street, or throw blood, or shout "Fire!" in a crowded theater. I'm sure this falls on deaf ears.

Hearing the crybabies WHINE about getting arrested, picked up by their faces and spit on -- now that's the price we pay for living in a democracy. Protest all you want, and I will reserve the right to hold you accountable for that protest. I reserve the right to call you an idiot, and laugh at you (depending upon your sincerity, and that's my right to reserve). And I reserve the right to be really really pissed when you impact my life or the lives of others, now and for years to come. I reserve the right to laugh at you in thirty years when you're still following the same useless fantasies.

Besides, you can't defend protesters with such extremist arguments -- that's the dominion of the Radical Right (TM). Jackbooted thugs and what not. Haven't you heard? This "either - or" stuff is something that the Left can't deal with usually. Alarmist, I'd say.

You do not have the right to interfere and harrass others.

Freedom of expression can be done with class. Apparently something you and the majority of protesters don't understand.

Why can't those pathetic losers STAND ON THE SIDEWALK? No, they have to ruin it for most of us WHO HAVE JOBS and a LIFE!

Let me guess, you support the throwing of eggs and shouting of slurs at US soldiers in bases in Germany? So how about Jessica Lynch.....were the protesters shouting at her?

Germany is slowing turning into another France....a spineless bunch of hypocritical pushovers and appeasers.

Tell you what....I will stay right here in the USA and you can stay put in Germany with all the other harlots! Maybe Michael Moore can be your next customer?

VERY WELL PUT finboy!

That is curious I would say the exact opposite, Germany is not being spinless and appeasing the US.

I am talking about appeasing Iraq and that soon-to-be-dead-ass punk Saddam.

The parallels to WWII are striking.

Wow, Macpilot, you sure put me in my place there.

"stand on the sidewalk", eh?

My guess is that you've never actually seen a real demonstration in your life. I realize that free political expression doesn't have quite the tradition in the United States - which makes sense, given that only, what 25-30% of eligible citizens actually take enough interest in politics to vote.

Hey - I wouldn't actually expect you to understand. Which, really, is the only valid argument against those protestors: They're not getting through to the knuckleheads anyway.

Oh yeah, and all us Germans love Saddam. He's actually number three, right after John Wayne and Ronald Raygun.

-s*

Not supporting the US's decision to go it alone = appeasing Saddam Hussein?
Can you say streeeeeetch?

and by all means please point out all the parallels to WWII

I think they already are home.

If they took off from work then wouldn't it stand to reason that they already have a job?

Incidentally if you're so busy at work then how do you have the time to post anti-anti-war propoganda?

To all of you behind the war 100% while you're sitting at home or work watching it on CNN, how about enlisting in the US Military and actually fighting? I mean otherwise you're just alot of words on an internet message board.



MikeM

I have time at work because I fly airplanes for a living, and sometimes I am on the ground with net access.

My job and industry is now in jeopardy because of this war and terrorists and punks like Saddam, yet I still support this war and this President....imagine that.

My uncorrected vision kept me from joining the Air Force, or I would be over there right now doing my part, I assure you. I would be happy to drop a few gifts for those Iraqi bastards.

I call SEVERAL resolutions APPEASEMENT.

What are you guys doing on your Sunday? Isn't there some protest you could be attending?

Peace protesters......keeping the world safe!

George W. Bush... making the US hated throughout the world.

I think I figured out what the deal is with all the war protesters: they all got picked last for kick-ball

The fact we can protest freely is one of the reasons why people died for this country, and still die for this country. You don't like them protesting, blocking traffic, etc? Well tell them but they still have the right to do it.

I swear, the next "protestor" that defaces something, or maces/assaults a cop should be executed in front of fellow protesters.

If you want to ax the president who made the policy is one thing.

But taking it out on a cop who is doing their job... or a business owner who just so happens to own a shop on the street where the protest is happening.

I WISH SOMEONE WOULD KILL THESE INDIVIDUALS. I WILL DONATE CASH FOR THE SILVER BULLET.

Dude, I NEVER, I repeat, I NEVER said they have no right to protest.

They have NO right to interfere or harass MY life as an American taxpayer. These people are despicable and this whole "I am against the war but I support the troops" is a joke.

Whatever happened to PEACEFUL protests?

Making the US hated in the world? Right....Well, if I am still alive but hated that is better than dead and loved!

With "allies" like France and Germany, who needs enemies?

But without enemies, whom will you bomb, kill, and maim to feed your ego?

We're all dead and loved, remember?

-s*

This isn't a complicated matter. Protests are fine, but when said protest infringes on another person's freedoms, ie: blocking traffic, doors, etc. -- the protesters taking part in those actions are BREAKING THE LAW.

LAWBREAKERS will be held accountable by US laws.

End of story.

That's it.

Period.

Maury

I guess I missed something...do you have links of cops assaulted or sprayed with mace by war protestors? (not doubting you, just that I haven't seen it....a link would help towards giving me a level playing field in the debate)

the last line of your post is, perhaps as telling about you pro-war advocates as it is chilling and disturbing.

May I put you down as NOT supporting someone's right to protest the, war, and fatally so?

gee.....what next? kill all the liberals? kill all the democrats? kill everyone who is a moderate republican? kill all republicans who aren't also white supremacists?

I mean, where does your crime spree end?

Oh, I don't know, maybe the Jews? Oh yeah, the Nazis already took care of most of them. Remember?

Um - honest question:

You don't have registered demonstrations in the United States?

The right to peaceful assembly is limited to staying on the sidewalks and/or off public property?

Educate me.

-s*

It is highly interesting that whenever certain people get the feeling they're losing out, they ALWAYS resort to attacking people based on what's written in that little text field to the left.

For all you know, I'm not German. In fact, I could easily be Japanese. I'm certainly not a Nazi.

And I was about as involved in that as you were in turning BOATLOADS of Jews BACK TO GERMANY from Ellis Island even though the US already knew about concentration camps. Remember?

Asshole.

-s*

Cities can make reasonably time, manner, and place restrictions on protests. In practice, that means you normally need a permit in public places but the authorities are obliged to give the permit to any group who asks. They can't distinguish between groups and the only reason for the permit is to give the authorities notice to provide police etc.

Certain places have been placed off-limits to all protests. Private property, some government property, the space right in front of private residences if you are targeting an individual. Other places are automatically open to protests (but often with the permits). For example public parks and most sidewalks are in that category. Some places are discretionary. Government doesn't have to allow protests, but if they do they are required not to discriminate by viewpoint.

I think that's most of the basic rules. The law in this area actually isn't very consistent. For example, you can protest on a sidewalk, but not a sidewalk in front of a post office.

OK, back to studying for finals.

Free speech is not a catch all for lawlessness.

The US supreme court has already ruled in the past that requiring a permit for a March does not infringe on free speech. They have also ruled that your free speech rights are limited when they infringe on the rights of others. I don't have the energy to find the case, but it goes something like this. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is not covered under the free speech because it can cause panic and threaten the safety and wellbeing of others.

Also while the antiwar crowd wants to yell free speech, please remember that the constitution also offers equal protection under the law and the right to move freely. By allowing the protesters to block traffic they would also have to allow everyone the right to walk out into traffic whenever they felt like it. This is a n obvious safety concern and can not be allowed.

If I go to one of these protesters house, break his front window, climb in, change the channel on his tv to foxnews and stop him from changing it, isn't this an expression of my free speech rights? All I gotta do is tell the police that I am making a political protest, and expressing my opinion, right?

OK....now the US is at fault for the Jews? Yeah right! It was the US will that liberated Europe if you recall! This, in turn, liberated the Jews that had not already been slaughtered by THAT regime.

I challenge you to provide evidence of the US turning back Jews. What a bunch of crap. You probably believe we let Pearl Harbor happen just to have an excuse.

Who's calling you a Nazi? Getting a little sensitive, aren't we? It seems you are the frustrated one with the resort to name calling.

You mean perhaps like the Vietnamese? Oh yeah, the US already took care of 2 million of them. Remember?

As for going home. We are at home.

As for Germany being spineless, I think you'll actually have to make a decision sometime in your views on the world. So, is Germany spineless because they're not suppoting a war, or is Germany a bunch of Jew killing Nazi's? Germany is for once standing up to the continual appeasment that goes on towards the USA. GO GERMANY!!!

Well, am I?

Why bring it up then, except as a personal attack?


If you're going to claim that you wouldn't have made the above remark if I hadn't had "Hamburg, Germany" in my personal info - I don't believe you.

And that being the case, yes, you were calling me a Nazi, or at least trying to personally insult me by insinuating some sort of tacit approval or ignorance.



First link that Google turned up (picked at random - this info is NOT hard to find).
http://www.youth.net/memories/hypermail/0442.html

-s*

You were calling him a Nazi, and it's well documented that the USA turned Jews away before world war II, as did just about every other country. Not only that but both Britain and the USA knew well into World War II of the existence of the concentration camps, but never mentioned it and didn't do anything about it, until their forces actually reached the camps. This doesn't help all those people who died in any case, and doesn't make the buthery of the Nazis any better, but it puts things in the world in perspective.

Making accusations about Germans being Nazis these days is about as primitive as you can get. Screaming at nations being spineless because they don't want to participate in wars is useless. If you want economic sanctions against Germany, France and Russia because of their opposition to the war, write to your congressman. You can even make your own little demonstration promoting those sanctions.

Just make sure you don't get in the way of any cars, while you're doing it. You might get ridden over by some ****nut who doesn't agree with the freedom to demonstrate.

Dude, shouldn't you be out at some protest right now!

The German people didn't stand up to an evil regime then, and they aren't doing it now. Very simple concept actually.

The Nazis killing CIVILIANS in gas chambers is a little different than civilian casualties in a war, stupid. It is called murder.

Vietnam......a war against communism.....that led to the fall of the Berlin Wall....that led to the crumbling of the Soviet Communist threat. Maybe we could muster up a connect-the-dots coloring book so you can follow.

You Europeans are really starting to annoy me.

The United Nations and NATO has been your safe haven mainly because of the determination and strength of the USA.

Appeasement of the USA? You still have your Germany, your Japan. We whipped the krauts and let them keep their country. Somehow I think the same would not have been the case had the Nazis and Japs won the war? Those countries were rebuilt to become greater nations then they were to begin with!

Jealosy seems to be at the heart of these weak nations, except duty to the obligations that they took when joining the UN!

But I digress......we have strayed from the topic....Protesters.....

just go home already!

Okay, so it's basically the same thing as here. Generally, it's no problem getting a permit, except that the district may request a different path or location for the demonstration.

So it seems that the people complaining here about protestors are in fact just ignorant of their Constitution and laws, both of which hold Freedom of Expression and peaceful assembly higher than some guy's right to freely-flowing stop-and-go traffic and General Intolerance.

Well, good to know.

-s*

Vietnam......a war against communism.....that led to the fall of...Vietnam, which still has a communist government today, stupid.

The German people didn't stand up to an evil regime then, but they are doing it now, against yours.

What a revealing post.

You, Macpilot - not Americans in general, just you, personally - are really starting to annoy me.

-s*

Simey got to the answer before I did (dinner, you know). But yes, we have registered demonstrations here -- but you don't register for a demonstration that will block public roadways, public buildings, etc. Why in the world anyone would think anyone should "have the right" to prevent another free citizen from carrying on about their own business is beyond me.

If I saw your car in a public parking lot and I decided I didn't like the rims, it would be against the law for me to prevent you from entering your automobile by laying over the door, blocking your access. Why? Because you have a right to enter your vehicle and I'm infringing upon your free rights by attempting to keep you from gaining access. However, I could stand in front of you, trying to keep you from gaining access -- but as long as I didn't prevent you form gaining access, I wouldn't be breaking the law.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you think these protesters "have the right" to prevent other free citizens from going about their own, free lives by laying on the street, chaining doors shut, preventing federal employees from gaining access to their place of work. If I am understanding you correctly, you are incorrect in your understanding of US laws.

Maury

Well, my neutral Swiss friend, if you think that Bush is "evil" because he is trying to enforce the will of the UN than you are quite dissusional.

I am aware of Vietnam, thank you very much.

Now, why don't you go put some of the Mac's great graphic capabilities to use and put together a really nice protest sign, or maybe go burn a Bush effigy? Wouldn't that be more soothing and invigorating than argueing with an evil American like me?

Have a nice day punk.

As far as revelations....

Will you tell me....a "Spheric Harlot".....

is that anything like a

Fat Whore?

Even John Stewart made a comment about this problem on the daily show (maybe a week and a half ago.

It's common, and happens quite a bit... Problem is the crowds are so large, the police are being cautious as when they make an arrest and a mini-riot breaks out, they are the wrong ones.


Actually, it's a hatred towards those who feel that they can attack everyone and call it "Freedom of speach"...

As long as my tax money is going towards replacing the 200 some odd Stop signs that need to be replaced because someone felt their "Freedom of speach" allowed them to disfigure them with the word "war" under each.

Or destroy businesses that happen to be in front of where protesters gather...

Or place anti-war bumperstickers on peoples windshields without asking.


It's one thing to hold a protest. What pisses me off is how people defend these actions repeatedly as "their right".

Just because it's a public building, doesn't mean you can spray paint it. Same with street signs, streets, sidewalks etc.

The amount of money that is going into cleaning up all this is rediculus.

Protesting is fine... that *is* protected....

BUT putting a Bumperstickers on every car in a parkinglot... and calling it freedom of speach... as is happening in some malls at least on the east coast is just freaking rediculus.

Perhaps I did misunderstand.

It seems that "citizenship" is a very different concept here. It is a citizen's responsibility to vote. And a certain level of discomfort (because that's all it is - not being able to crawl ALL the way through town bumper-to-bumper and having to take a subway instead, or, god forbid, walk a few blocks is not infringement of rights, it's a minor discomfort) must be tolerated for basic rights to free political/social expression.

If you honestly believe that legitimate and legal protestors standing up for something they believe strongly in whilst blocking a public street is an infringement of your basic rights, then you truly don't deserve whatever rights you may still have remaining after the Homeland Security Act, because you haven't the slightest clue what they really mean.

-s*

Oh. the Daily show. Care to give a real link to a real story?
didn't think so.

Actually, protestors have more to fear from police, historically.


speech...SPEECH....S-P-E-E-C-H! fegawdssake....learn to spell. (pet peeve).
You're sure one to complain about hatred...considering you just offered to buy bullets for anyone who murders a protestor...that's a death threat, and is a felony....(I think, maybe Simey could chime in on that one) I'd say you have some serious anger management issues. I'd be happy to arrange some therapy for you.



so.....this is all because you had a bumper sticker put on your car, is that it? Is that what this is all about? for this you want to murder a stranger on a contract for hire?

Hell, I had a funeral parlor put a bumper sticker on my car once without my permission.


um...dude...psst....try some therapy.

amen, you've a better grasp of what it means to be an american than some of these guys, and you aren't even american.

bravo.

Hahaha!

No, sweety, you only get those in the States.

Are you so out of your depth that all you can think of is personal attacks?

It always saddens me to see that happen...

-s*

Please.

Take what you just said and place that into the oddball context of the first part of my post. You just said, in effect, that it *is* my right to *prevent* your access to your car, just because I don't like your rims.

Where does it end? At what point does my "protest" infringe upon your own rights to where some authority must remove me so that you can continue to have your rights? Where is the fine line? Should my actions and the expressions of my "rights" overpower yours? Should yours overpower mine?

Following your line of thinking, the only "Final Outcome" of your logic would be Mad Max/Raod Warrior anarchy.

There has to be a line drawn to prevent me from overpowering your rights, and there has to be a line drawn to prevent you from overpowering mine. This line is the Rule of Law as prescribed in the various areas/cities, etc. in which we live.

Maury

I think it is you that has no clue. It is harassment and infringement to block a car or whatever other weak protester act you might attempt. You can be SUED for harassment in the USA. Just ask my laywer!

To those who think the protesters have the right to block traffic, I ask my question again.

"If I go to one of these protesters house, break his front window, climb in, change the channel on his tv to foxnews and stop him from changing it, isn't this an expression of my free speech rights? All I gotta do is tell the police that I am making a political protest, and expressing my opinion, right?"

Lets say going to work and sitting in traffic was my way of expressing my support for this war. I think the US is right and I believe that the best way that I can help is to continue to work everyday and continue to make this nation one of the richest, most powerful nations in the world. Are the protesters then not infinging on my right to free speech, in the form of my driving to work?

To say that Free speech means you can infringe on the rights of others is ignoarnt of the course of free speech in this country as established by the United States Supreme Court and our Constitution.

But hey, if someone can answer my question in an intelligent honest answer, perhaps I could see the light.

You do understand the difference between some thug standing in a car park and an ORGANIZED, REGISTERED PROTEST MARCH?

DO YOU?

I can spell it out, if you like:

It is your right to block my access to my car, provided I am trying to get there by car, absolutely refuse to try and get there by any other means (say, on foot), AND you happen to be a mass of several dozen to hundred thousand people with a permit to stand/march in front of that parking lot.

For your right to do that, I'll gladly take a bus to work or leave home fifteen minutes earlier.

To tell the truth: I am astounded, and somewhat taken aback, that there are Americans on these boards who have, in the past weeks, clearly shown - as you have - that they do not grasp this concept at all.

This Freedom is what Americans have always held and touted as the very highest good, and in fact what your boys are supposedly dying and killing for in Iraq.

Why do you think the mayor's office gives out permits? Sue them! Go ahead!

They'll give you a quick lesson in Constitutional Rights and laugh you right out of the office (your lawyer, of course, will have warned you ahead of time and won't have bothered accompanying you).

Your right to drive, or to make money, or to own a widescreen TV, are NOTHING in comparison to the right those wacky peace protestors are exercising and that you are trying to forbid.

-s*

Honest answer:

You really can't distinguish between a Civil Right and trespassing on private property?

This is *unbelievable*.

I hope the above qualifies.

-s*

Well my darling plus-sized whore, you clearly won't agree that I NEVER said they don't have the right to protest. All I said is they have NO RIGHT to harass me! NO RIGHT to deface and damage MY property!

Why can't you get that into your big fat skull?