Thread

Why All the French Bashing?

Why All the French Bashing? Troubleshooting 50 posts Apr 7, 2003 — Apr 11, 2003

#1 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 00:04

I don't get it. Why complain if the french don't commit troops? It's there choice. Jeez...

#2 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 00:23

Quote:

Originally posted by undotwa:
I don't get it. Why complain if the french don't commit troops? It's there choice. Jeez...

i think its just the attitude towards us reflected back i think. who knows, we got more important things to worry about now.

namely, our troops in all out war on tv.

i have more respect than ever for our armed forces

#3 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 00:31

This originally posted by PB:

"France

There are more than 4,200 French military personnel currently operating in the CENTCOM AOR.

The French Air Force, deploying C-160 and C-130 aircraft to Dushanbe, Tajikistan, have provided humanitarian assistance as well as national and coalition airlift support. Two KC-135 aircraft have deployed to Manas, Kyrgyzstan to provide aerial refueling. Six Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft have also deployed to Manas to provide close air support (CAS) capability.
French engineers helped construct runways, a tent city and a munitions storage facility at Manas. France also provided airfield security (with dogs), a field mess unit, a deployable weather bureau, and a Civil Military Operations (CMO) team.
France deployed an infantry company to Mazar-e-Sharif to provide area security up to December 2001.
Two French officers are currently serving as air coordinators at the RAMCC.
Atlantique aircraft deployed in Djibouti under national control are participating daily in Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) missions.
France provided its only Carrier Battle Group to support combat operations in the North Arabian Sea. Aircraft from this Battle Group have flown more than 2,000 hours for OEF to date, supporting the coalition with air reconnaissance, strike and AEW missions. France's naval contribution to OEF accounts for approximately 24 percent of their entire naval forces.
France is the only coalition country to be flying fighter aircraft from Manas airfield in Kyrgyzstan. Their Mirage and tanker aircraft actively supported the coalition during Operation Anaconda in March and are maintaining their full combat and support capabilities for further operations.
Kabul Medical Institute: The World Health Organization, French Embassy, Loma Linda (NGO) and French forces (500 personnel) inserted into ISAF are working to make major improvements to the Kabul Medical Institute - with equipment, books and a new curriculum. The student body of about 2,800 includes 544 women. "
http://www.centcom.mil/Operations/C...ages/france.htm

Edit: Link fixed, sorry

#4 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 01:13

Are you referring to the committment of troops in the Iraqi war?? If so, the bashing is not because of troop committment, but because of promised veto in the UN for any resolution authorizing military force against Iraq.

Hey Mastrap, your link doesn't work and did I see a "December 2001" in there somewhere? It looks like part of the Afghan operation. But I cant tell from this post what operation is trying to be addressed.

#5 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 01:19

With regards to "general" bashing, I think it is a portion of the population in the educated west who still can't conceptually separate disagreement over acts with dislike of people. Thus there is a sizable portion of people in Canada and Europe who move from just opposition to US Policy to active dislike of the US. By the same measure there are some in the US who do the same to France.

In general such things die down quickly. But you'll always have silliness among some people. i.e. those for whom it is not enough to protest - they have to get arrested. (How does that make the point stronger?) Likewise those for whom protest isn't enough, they have to boycott products. Very silly in my mind, but also very real.

As for why on this forum France has been "bashed" I think it varies. Some probably fit into the above. Others just notice a strong hypocrisy among many in opposition to the war and enjoy pointing this out.

#6 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 02:34

Like what Clark G said. This group of rednecks think its ok for the US to veto UN resolutions such as the one banning land mines but they have huge problems with countries that want to veto their resolutions. Not because they believe their arguements are valid but because America helped liberate France in WW2 and therefore France should stand to attention when America says a-ten-shun.

And did America need the resolution to invade Iraq? No but the vocal minority continue slagging the French.

#7 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 06:49

Quote:

Originally posted by simonjames:
its ok for the US to veto UN resolutions such as the one banning land mines

Can you point to that "UN resolution" please? There is a non-UN multilateral treaty, which the Clinton and Bush administrations both declined to sign. But I am not aware of any UN resolution on the subject - vetoed or otherwise.

It would be odd if there were. After all, the US isn't the only permanent member who didn't sign the treaty.

#8 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 06:52

What kinda made me

was when France said it would veto ANYTHING that was basically the Americans idea. Not because they thought it was wrong, but because we came up with it.

That is why I made fun of the people in charge of France.

#9 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 07:03

Courtesy of ThinkInsane:

Quote:

The following advisory for American travelers heading for France was compiled from information provided by the US State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency, the US Chamber of Commerce, the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control, and some very expensive spy satellites that the French don't know about. It is intended as a guide for American travelers only.

GENERAL OVERVIEW
France is a medium-sized foreign country situated in the continent of Europe. It is an important member of the world community, though not nearly as important as it thinks. It is bounded by Germany, Spain, Switzerland and some smaller nations of no particular consequence and with not very good shopping. France is a very old country with many treasures, such as the Louvre and EuroDisney. Among its contributions to western civilization are champagne, Camembert cheese and the guillotine. Although France likes to think of itself as a modern nation, air conditioning is little used and it is next to impossible to get decent Mexican food. One continuing exasperation for American visitors is that the people willfully persist in speaking French, though many will speak English if shouted at. As in any foreign country, watch your change at all times.

THE PEOPLE
France has a population of 54 million people, most of whom drink and smoke a great deal, drive like lunatics, are dangerously oversexed, and have no concept of standing patiently in line. The French people are in general gloomy, temperamental, proud, arrogant, aloof, and undisciplined; and those are their good points. Most French citizens are Roman Catholic, though you would hardly guess it from their behavior. Many people are communists, and topless sunbathing is common. Men sometimes have girls' names like Marie, and they kiss each other when they hand out medals. American travelers are advised to travel in groups and to wear baseball caps and colorful trousers for easier mutual recognition.

SAFETY
In general, France is a safe destination, though travelers are advised that, from time to time, it is invaded by Germany. By tradition, the French surrender more or less at once and, apart from a temporary shortage of Scotch whisky and increased difficulty in getting baseball scores and stock market prices, life for the visitor generally goes on much as before. A tunnel connecting France to Britain beneath the English Channel has been opened in recent years to make it easier for the Government to flee to London.

HISTORY
France was discovered by Charlemagne in the Dark Ages. Other important historical figures are Louis XIV, the Huguenots, Joan of Arc, Jacques Cousteau, and Charles de Gaulle, who was President for many years and is now an airport.

GOVERNMENT
The French form of government is democratic but noisy. Elections are held more or less continuously, and always result in a run-off. For_ administrative purposes, the country is divided into regions, departments, districts, municipalities, cantons, communes, villages, cafes, booths, and floor tiles. Parliament consists of two chambers, the Upper and Lower (though, confusingly, they are both on the ground floor), whose members are either Gaullists or communists, neither of whom is to be trusted, frankly. Parliament's principal preoccupations are setting off atomic bombs in the South Pacific, and acting indignant when anyone complains. According to the most current State Department intelligence, the President now is someone named Jacques. Further information is not available at this time.

_

CULTURE
The French pride themselves on their culture, though it is not easy to see why. All their songs sound the same, and they have hardly ever made a movie that you would want to watch for anything but the nude scenes.

CUISINE
Let's face it, no matter how much garlic you put on it, a snail is just a slug with a shell on its back. Croissants, on the other hand, are excellent, though it is impossible for most Americans to pronounce this word. In general, travelers are advised to stick to cheeseburgers at leading hotels such as Sheraton and Holiday Inn.

ECONOMY
France has a large and diversified economy, second only to Germany's in Europe, which is surprising because people hardly work at all. If they are not spending four hours dawdling over lunch, they are on strike and blocking the roads with their trucks and tractors. France's principal exports, in order of importance to the economy, are wine, nuclear weapons, perfume, guided missiles, champagne, high-caliber weaponry, grenade launchers, land mines, tanks, attack aircraft, miscellaneous armaments
and cheese.

PUBLIC HOLIDAYS
France has more holidays than any other nation in the world. Among its 361 national holidays are 197 saints' days, 37 National Liberation Days, 16 Declaration of Republic Days, 54 Return of Charles de Gaulle in Triumph as if he Won the War Single-Handed Days, 18 Napoleon Sent into Exile Days, 17 Napoleon Called Back from Exile Days, and 112 France is Great and the Rest of the World is Rubbish Days. Other important holidays are National Nuclear Bomb Day (January 12), the Feast of St. Brigitte Bardot Day (March 1), and National Guillotine Day (November 12).

CONCLUSION
France enjoys a rich history, a picturesque and varied landscape, and a temperate climate. In short, it would be a very nice country if it weren't inhabited by French people.

A WORD OF WARNING
The consular services of the United States government are intended solely for the promotion of the interests of American businesses such as McDonald's, Pizza Hut, and the Coca-Cola Corporation. In the event that you are the victim of a crime or serious injury involving at least the loss of a limb, report to the American Embassy between the hours of 5.l5 am and 5.20 am on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and a consular official who is supremely indifferent to your plight will give you a list of qualified dentists or something similarly useless. Remember, no one ordered you to go abroad. Personally, we always take our holidays at Miami Beach, and you are advised to as well.

Thank you and good luck.

Zim, could you put up that Soldier of Surrender magazine cover again? Please?

#10 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 08:08

Why all the French bashing?

http://argument.independent.co.uk/r...sp?story=394693

I have a URL for every occasion.

#11 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 08:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Why all the French bashing?

http://argument.independent.co.uk/r...sp?story=394693

I have a URL for every occasion.

I am in shock. You have linked to a column that I agree with. And it is from The Independent.

I think I am going to have to lie down now. Somebody please fetch me a glass of water.

#12 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 08:23

Quote:

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
Zim, could you put up that Soldier of Surrender magazine cover again? Please?

It's only funny SO many times.

#13 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 08:25

Quote:

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I am in shock. You have linked to a column that I agree with. And it is from The Independent.

I think I am going to have to lie down now. Somebody please fetch me a glass of water.

I know! And you just made a funny in another thread that made me laugh out loud.

It's getting weird around here.

#14 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 08:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It's only funny SO many times.

Fine. I'll do it myself

I still think it's funny.

#15 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 09:18

Quote:

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I am in shock. You have linked to a column that I agree with. And it is from The Independent.

I shall cancel my subscription immediately.

#16 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 09:46

Quote:

Originally posted by undotwa:
I don't get it. Why complain if the french don't commit troops? It's there choice. Jeez...

I'm not critical of them not sending troops. I am critical of their absolute refusal to pass ANY resolution, no matter timeline that would allow the use of force in Iraq.

In effect, that forced Bush/Blair to act without going through the UNSC.

Also, I have problem with a country where 1 in 3 surveyed wants Saddam to win, where anti-Semitism is at an all time high, where they deface the graves of the foreign soldiers that defended their country.

So I don't think a little joking is that big of a deal.

"Did you hear that the French suffered their first injury of the war?"

"No, what happened?"

"Someone sprained an ankle trying to jump on the bandwagon."

#17 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 10:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Zimphire:
What kinda made me was when France said it would veto ANYTHING that was basically the Americans idea. Not because they thought it was wrong, but because we came up with it.

That is why I made fun of the people in charge of France.

That really should make you rollingeyes. Because France didn't say _that_. They stated (like Russia, Germany, etc.) they would veto anything that would include an AUTOMATISM TO WAR. Maybe in your press that was the fine print. :-/

PB.

#18 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 11:20

Quote:

That suits your agenda doesn't it. Of course, it's completely divorced from the reality of what transpired. The French (and the Germans and the Russians together with the bulk of the rest of the world) said that inspections were working and that they wouldn't consider any proposal to create a trigger for war while the inspections were working (between the lines: Bush is a cowboy and we don't trust him enough to put his hand on a trigger). The French said they would veto any proposal to do anything other than proceed with inspections. They DID NOT say that they would veto anything that was "the Americans (sic) idea".

The US at one point claimed credit for the inspection regime and for 1441 so those were apparently American ideas that France supported. And your contention that France was against the war not because it thought it was wrong but because it was America's idea is absurd! The French made countless statements saying exactly why they thought the war was wrong.

#19 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Troll:
That suits your agenda doesn't it. Of course, it's completely divorced from the reality of what transpired. The French (and the Germans and the Russians together with the bulk of the rest of the world)

There goes that bulk of the rest of the world exaggerations.

Quote:

said that inspections were working and that they wouldn't consider any proposal to create a trigger for war while the inspections were working (between the lines: Bush is a cowboy and we don't trust him enough to put his hand on a trigger). The French said they would veto any proposal to do anything other than proceed with inspections. They DID NOT say that they would veto anything that was "the Americans (sic) idea".
The US at one point claimed credit for the inspection regime and for 1441 so those were apparently American ideas that France supported. And your contention that France was against the war not because it thought it was wrong but because it was America's idea is absurd! The French made countless statements saying exactly why they thought the war was wrong.

French Made it clear they was opposed of any US action that the US led. They didn't want to the US in it at all. They STILL don't want the US in it now. And when it's done, they don't want the US in rebuilding either. But sure, it's just about them being against the war. Riiiight.

#20 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 12:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Zimphire:
French Made it clear they was opposed of any US action that the US led.[/B]

Want to give us a link?

#21 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 13:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Troll:
Want to give us a link?

You are kidding right?

#22 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 13:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Troll:
They DID NOT say that they would veto anything that was "the Americans (sic) idea".

WAY off topic: I've seen the word "sic" before when in reference to a misspelling or grammatical error that was left in it's original context. Is that right? And, what does "sic" actually mean/stand for?

#23 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 13:35

Because a french ******* stole my girlfriend.

#24 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 14:30

Latin Abreviations

bis.- (As in V34.bis) It is Latin for "second."
cf.- latin:"confer" which means (compare).
et al.- latin:"et alii" or latin:"et aliae" which means (and others).
Sic- latin:"sic" which means (thus).
ca.- latin:"circa" which means (about).
e.g.- latin:"exempli gratia" which means (for the sake of example).
etc.- latin:"et cetera" which means (and so on).
i.e.- latin:"id est" which means (that is).
N.B.- latin:"nota bene" which means (note well).
viz.- latin:"videlicet" from "videre licet" which means (it is permitted to see).

Sic implies that what went before was a quote. Any errors are in the original. I think that the move from "thus" to "literal quote" came from "the text was thus."

#25 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitschy:
WAY off topic: I've seen the word "sic" before when in reference to a misspelling or grammatical error that was left in it's original context. Is that right? And, what does "sic" actually mean/stand for?

It should have been "Americans' idea" (with the apostrophe). The sic does add something to the humour value though doesn't it? Sick idea (drum roll).

#26 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 16:52

Well this is a first - my fave English rag gets quoted in MacNN! Interesting article but I can't see how it relates to this topic.

One final-ish point on the French bashing - I think it has a lot to do with the group/mob mentality

#27 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 18:51

Quote:

Originally posted by simonjames:
Well this is a first - my fave English rag gets quoted in MacNN! Interesting article but I can't see how it relates to this topic.

One final-ish point on the French bashing - I think it has a lot to do with the group/mob mentality

You know, French bashing in the US has been going on for years and years and years. It is not new, it did not appear just recently, it will go on for a long time most likely.
The same for US bashing on the other side of the water pond.

villa

#28 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 19:23

Quote:

Originally posted by davesimondotcom:
where they deface the graves of the foreign soldiers that defended their country.

Don't let some teenager that can't even get a swastika around the right way influence your opinion of a country with 61 million people.

#29 Mon, 7 Apr 2003 - 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Don't let some teenager that can't even get a swastika around the right way influence your opinion of a country with 61 million people.

Oh, man!! How am I supposed to quietly judge all 61 million of them if I can't rely on jumping to conclusions, ridiculous stereotypes, and gross generalizations?

You're no fun at all!

#30 Tue, 8 Apr 2003 - 05:50

Vive la France!!!

I am very proud the French and the German governments listened to their people and objected to this injust, illegal and bloody war!

Happy to be European. US citizenship sucks!