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Killing a child: 'I did what I had to do'
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Killing a child: 'I did what I had to do' April 8 2003, 12:49 PM When a young Iraqi boy stooped to pick up a rocket propelled grenade off the body of a dead paramilitary, US Army Private Nick Boggs made his decision. He unloaded machinegun fire and the boy, whom he puts at about 10 years old, fell dead on a garbage-strewn stretch of waste land at Karbala. Boggs, a softly spoken 21-year-old former hunting guide from Alaska, says he knew when he joined the army 18 months ago he might someday have to make a decision like that. He hoped it would never come and, although he has no regrets about opening fire, it is clear he'd rather it wasn't a child he killed. "I did what I had to do. I don't have a big problem with it but anyone who shoots a little kid has to feel something," he said after fierce weekend fighting in this Shi'ite Muslim holy city that left dozens of Iraqis and one American soldier dead. As US troops take the Iraq war out of the desert and into the main cities, they are increasingly seeing children in their line of fire. Many are innocent civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time and military officers concede that some may have been killed in artillery or mortar fire, or shot down by soldiers whose judgment is impaired in the "fog of war". But others are apparently being used as fighters or more often as scouts and weapons collectors. US officers and soldiers say that turns them into legitimate targets. "I think they're cowards," Boggs said of the parents or Fedayeen paramilitaries who send out children to the battlefield. "I think they thought we wouldn't shoot kids. But we showed them we don't care. We are going to do what we have to do to stay alive and keep ourselves safe." The boy he killed was with another child of around the same age when they reached for the RPG and came under fire. Boggs thinks the second boy was also hit but other soldiers think he escaped and that he dragged his friend's dead body away. Boggs' platoon leader, Lieutenant Jason Davis, said the young soldier struggles with what happened even if he had no choice but to shoot. "Does it haunt him? Absolutely. It haunts me and I didn't even pull the trigger," he said. "It blows my mind that they can put their children into that kind of situation." Although Boggs plays down suggestions he was upset by the incident, he also says his view of combat has changed since Saturday, when his platoon came under intense RPG and rifle fire from the moment they entered Karbala until way after nightfall. Before - like many young soldiers - he says he was anxious to get his first "kill" in a war. Now, he seems more mature. "It's not about killing people. It's about accomplishing a mission ... When we talk, we don't say how scared we were. But we found out how you feel when an RPG hits the wall just up from you and you think 'Damn, I could have been right there'," he said. Reuters |
Discuss.
Yes, war is f*ucked up.
This is terribly sad. I think it's more evidence that war is barbaric, and we need to perfect the art of diplomacy, or at the very least attempt it with some sort of true motivation.
This quote scares me:
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This quote scares me:
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| "I think they thought we wouldn't shoot kids. But we showed them we don't care. We are going to do what we have to do to stay alive and keep ourselves safe." |
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sucks
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Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible: This is terribly sad. I think it's more evidence that war is barbaric... |
Indeed.
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| "It blows my mind that they can put their children into that kind of situation." |
Of course, brave US superheroes are not afraid of children..
If bushists can launch preemptive strikes on whole countries, why a single US soldier can't launch his own preemptive strike on children? Of course, he can and he must. After all, the 10 year old will grow up, and someday in future may even think about revenge for his killed family and parents. PFFFF! WTF!! Ungrateful for democracy and oil privatization! How they, little stupid brown men speaking incomprehensible strange languages, dare to sell their own oil without US permission, and even resist his majesty Bush?
Absolutely unbearable! Uncle Sam knows better than the little brown men, whats best for them. First, oil will go to Uncle Sam - he needs it, after all; no, he is not going to pay for oil - Uncle Sam will privatize it and own it, so little brown men will be freed from difficult decisions such as receiving true value of their natural resources. Are they still ungrateful? OK, Uncle Sam will put his own little brown men to rule others, so it will resemble democracy. What? NO one elected the provisional pro-US government?? WTF? Who cares? Lastly, little brown men will have to pay for everything Uncle Sam destroyed during Shock and Awe by their own little dinars in accounts, which Uncle Sam freezed at his own will - dont be so stupid to keep your own little brown dinars in US banks anymore, haha. Are they still ungrateful? Oh, what an ungrateful nation, what an ungrateful world!
Absolutely unbearable! Uncle Sam knows better than the little brown men, whats best for them. First, oil will go to Uncle Sam - he needs it, after all; no, he is not going to pay for oil - Uncle Sam will privatize it and own it, so little brown men will be freed from difficult decisions such as receiving true value of their natural resources. Are they still ungrateful? OK, Uncle Sam will put his own little brown men to rule others, so it will resemble democracy. What? NO one elected the provisional pro-US government?? WTF? Who cares? Lastly, little brown men will have to pay for everything Uncle Sam destroyed during Shock and Awe by their own little dinars in accounts, which Uncle Sam freezed at his own will - dont be so stupid to keep your own little brown dinars in US banks anymore, haha. Are they still ungrateful? Oh, what an ungrateful nation, what an ungrateful world!
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| "I think they thought we wouldn't shoot kids. But we showed them we don't care. We are going to do what we have to do to stay alive and keep ourselves safe." |
Why does that quote scare you? Isn't that complete and total common sense? I mean, wouldn't you do what you had to do to stay alive and kill anything or anyone that was trying to kill you?
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Originally posted by Kitschy: Indeed. Quote:
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[sarcasm]Yes, it blows my mind too that there are children in Iraq. I mean, how dare the adults in Iraq let their kids live in a warzone? [/sarcasm]
I'm insinuating something from the tone of your post, Kitschy, but you don't really mean to tell me that you believe every child who has been a casuality of "operation Iraqi freedom" is because they took up arms against the US at the behest of their elders.. Sure, there are some barbaric, cowardly people in Iraq, but I don't think more than a miniscule percent of the population would put their children at risk...
I mean, even the "great" George W Bush himself has stated that they are liberating a deserving people who just want to live in peace and not under oppression. This sentiment is backed up by the American people to justify the occupation of Iraq. The killing of innocents is justified in your minds, to save a people who "put their children into that kind of situation".. Backwards fuking nation of hypocrits...
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Originally posted by Hash: How they, little stupid brown men speaking incomprehensible strange languages, dare to sell their own oil without US permission, and even resist his majesty Bush? |
Is that how YOU see people in the middle east? It must be since you are the only one saying "little stupid brown men." Are you claiming this to be a racist war you? If it were, the war would already be over and there would be NO dead British and American soldiers. How dare you accuse the US, a country with citizens living in it from every country in the world, to have a high brow racist view of the middle east.
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| Absolutely unbearable! Uncle Sam knows better than the little brown men, whats best for them. First, oil will go to Uncle Sam - he needs it, after all; no, he is not going to pay for oil - Uncle Sam will privatize it and own it, so little brown men will be freed from difficult decisions such as receiving true value of their natural resources. Are they still ungrateful? OK, Uncle Sam will put his own little brown men to rule others, so it will resemble democracy. What? NO one elected the provisional pro-US government?? WTF? Who cares? Lastly, little brown men will have to pay for everything Uncle Sam destroyed during Shock and Awe by their own little dinars in accounts, which Uncle Sam freezed at his own will - dont be so stupid to keep your own little brown dinars in US banks anymore, haha. Are they still ungrateful? Oh, what an ungrateful nation, what an ungrateful world! |
Your opinion of the US, the people who live there and the government that they've elected, is pathetic and misguided. Sure, it's an opinion and you're entitled to it for sure, but your ranting hatred is unbelievable. You paint the US to be such a monster, when in fact the US is going out of its way to SPARE the non-combatant civilians of Iraq. As far as the rest of your rant...you've been smokin' too much of your name.
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Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible: [sarcasm]Yes, it blows my mind too that there are children in Iraq. I mean, how dare the adults in Iraq let their kids live in a warzone? [/sarcasm] I'm insinuating something from the tone of your post, Kitschy, but you don't really mean to tell me that you believe every child who has been a casuality of "operation Iraqi freedom" is because they took up arms against the US at the behest of their elders.. Sure, there are some barbaric, cowardly people in Iraq, but I don't think more than a miniscule percent of the population would put their children at risk... I mean, even the "great" George W Bush himself has stated that they are liberating a deserving people who just want to live in peace and not under oppression. This sentiment is backed up by the American people to justify the occupation of Iraq. The killing of innocents is justified in your minds, to save a people who "put their children into that kind of situation".. Backwards fuking nation of hypocrits... |
Why are you trying to "Spin" that quote? Did it ever occur to you that the soldier meant that the children of militants who were encouraged to fight? I don't believe he's talking about neighborhood kids who are playing kickball. Just a thought.
Before passing judgement, what would any of us do in such a situation?
A ten year old has a weapon pointed at you that will blow a good sized hole in a tank, and in a few seconds, may well turn you into oozing red pulp on the wall behind you.
The weapon doesn't discriminate; a 10 year old or a 110 year old could aim it and pull the trigger.
So what do you do?
No bullcrap, you're really there. The kid is real, the RPG is real, the gun in your hand is real.
What would you do?
Anyone?
Nope, not an easy question, if you're honest about it. One I'd never judge anyone else for having the misfortune of having to answer for real, unless I'd been there myself. But I haven't.
May none of us ever have to.
A ten year old has a weapon pointed at you that will blow a good sized hole in a tank, and in a few seconds, may well turn you into oozing red pulp on the wall behind you.
The weapon doesn't discriminate; a 10 year old or a 110 year old could aim it and pull the trigger.
So what do you do?
No bullcrap, you're really there. The kid is real, the RPG is real, the gun in your hand is real.
What would you do?
Anyone?
Nope, not an easy question, if you're honest about it. One I'd never judge anyone else for having the misfortune of having to answer for real, unless I'd been there myself. But I haven't.
May none of us ever have to.
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Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE: Before passing judgement, what would any of us do in such a situation? A ten year old has a weapon pointed at you that will blow a good sized hole in a tank, and in a few seconds, may well turn you into oozing red pulp on the wall behind you. The weapon doesn't discriminate; a 10 year old or a 110 year old could aim it and pull the trigger. So what do you do? No bullcrap, you're really there. The kid is real, the RPG is real, the gun in your hand is real. What would you do? Anyone? Nope, not an easy question, if you're honest about it. One I'd never judge anyone else for having the misfortune of having to answer for real, unless I'd been there myself. But I haven't. May none of us ever have to. |
Stop the aggression, leave the country, lets iraqi people decide fate of Saddam. As former post communist countries show, nations and people can change their governments themselves.
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Originally posted by Hash: Stop the aggression, leave the country, lets iraqi people decide fate of Saddam. As former post communist countries show, nations and people can change their governments themselves. |
Yes, the Iraqi people could have took out Saddam and his armies by themselves.
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Originally posted by Hash: Stop the aggression, leave the country, lets iraqi people decide fate of Saddam. As former post communist countries show, nations and people can change their governments themselves. |
Ahh yes, the first person who missed the 'no bullcrap' part.
Save the speech for the kid with the RPG. I'm sure he'll care.
Anyone else?
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Originally posted by Hash: Stop the aggression, leave the country, lets iraqi people decide fate of Saddam. As former post communist countries show, nations and people can change their governments themselves. |
Look up for a second.
What color is the sky there?
Zim, nations in Eastern Europe, Russia and Mongolia have destroyed such monster totalitarian regimes, that Saddam compared to them is just old kind grandfather. They did it on own, without military intervention from outside. Stalin example shows that military intervention from outside on the contrary strengthens totalitar regimes, since they are able to show aggressors as a factor, justifiying their existence.
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Originally posted by Spliffdaddy: Look up for a second. What color is the sky there? |
I guess yours is filled by stars and stripes and smiling giant face of God hand, a.k.a George W. Bush.
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Originally posted by Hash: Stop the aggression, leave the country, lets iraqi people decide fate of Saddam. As former post communist countries show, nations and people can change their governments themselves. |
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Originally posted by clod: "Saddam is only killing his own people. It's none of our buisiness!"
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When Pol Pot killed 50% of 7 million population, Pinochet fascists were shooting thousands in stadiums, Stressner in Paraguay killing ten of thousands during 30 years, Franco fascists taking country over and Somosa killing Nicaragua, it of course wasnt Uncle Sam business. Mind you, some of them were best friends of US. Even in such places as Rwanda millions were killed, its wasnt US business
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Originally posted by Hash: When Pol Pot killed 50% of 7 million population, Pinochet fascists were shooting thousands in stadiums, Stressner in Paraguay killing ten of thousands during 30 years, Franco fascists taking country over and Somosa killing Nicaragua, it of course wasnt Uncle Sam business. Mind you, some of them were best friends of US. Even in such places as Rwanda millions were killed, its wasnt US business |
And none of these places are Iraq, or the Iraqi people. Bad comparison.
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Originally posted by Zimphire: And none of these places are Iraq, or the Iraqi people. Bad comparison. |
Explain to me, if you will, how this is a bad comparison please.
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Originally posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE: Before passing judgement, what would any of us do in such a situation? A ten year old has a weapon pointed at you that will blow a good sized hole in a tank, and in a few seconds, may well turn you into oozing red pulp on the wall behind you. The weapon doesn't discriminate; a 10 year old or a 110 year old could aim it and pull the trigger. So what do you do? |
The kid didn't have a weapon pointed at anybody. He "stooped to pick it up".
As a father of two I'm pretty sure I would rather take my chances than kill a ten year old.
I will as soon as you can explain just how Iraq was supposed to overthrow Saddam. I mean they were afraid of him till the end, some still are.
Iraq could not have done this on their own.
Iraq could not have done this on their own.
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Originally posted by Zimphire: I will as soon as you can explain just how Iraq was supposed to overthrow Saddam. I mean they were afraid of him till the end, some still are. Iraq could not have done this on their own. |
I asked you a perfectly legitimate question. What does your question above have to do with my initial one?
If you don't want to answer, cannot answer just say so. No need to be evasive.
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Originally posted by clod: "Saddam is only killing his own people. It's none of our buisiness!"
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Let us remember that this war isn't about genocide or freeing the Iraqi people. It's about "preemptively stopping weapons of mass destruction from getting into terrorists hands". That was what the US presented to the UN. Nothing about genocide - if anything freeing the Iraqi people is (or may be) a side-effect. GWB doesn't give a flying **** about freeing the Iraqis. Stop moving the goal posts.
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Originally posted by daimoni: Sure. But not if it meant I (or one of my comrades) wouldn't be able to come home to our own children again. This is a live battlefield we're talking here, not a grocery aisle. It would be one thing if the kid was attempting to surrender. But I don't know about you... but those RPG's really sting. |
Gee thanks for the condescension. "Not a grocery aisle".
You disappoint me. I figured you were the type of guy I would want in my platoon but I've changed my mind now. I don't want anyone that would kill a kid to save his own arse. That's gutless.
And if I died as a result at least my kids wouldn't remember me as a child killer.
http://www.news.com.au/common/story...5E26277,00.html
Read that. Let's drop the delusion that these soldiers are well trained elite forces. For the most part they're just ****-scared trigger-happy 19 year olds.