My marriage is ending.

Huh. That sucks. Who are you?

- Rob

PS: I find the fact that people don't really take their promises ( 'in good times and in bad times' ) pretty disgusting.

Oh man, things aren't happy. Instead of fixing it, I should just quit and get a new one!

****ing pathetic. People have the same view on cars, our whole society is disposable. Good luck with your new woman until you have problems in your relationship, then ditch her and get something new.

Yeah, it's too bad that most people aren't like you and never make a mistake in their life.

Sorry to hear about it, but it may be for the best.

I was married for 20 years, and for the last 5 we too had grown apart. We had a very amicable divorce. We didn't argue about any property. As a matter of fact, we used the same lawyer, and split the cost. We've been divorced for over 12 years, and I see her and her partner frequently (they live 5 houses from one of our daughters and we've always been extremely close to our two girls). We're splitting baby sitting duties this Sunday for our grandson, and there hasn't been animosity whatsoever. I've been out on their boat with them many times, and my ex has a jet ski, which she lets me use when I want.

I realize that this is probably an extreme example, but it is possible to have an amicable divorce. It sounds like you may be able to move along without a lot of pain, and that's good. Not every divorce has to be full of hatred and become a battle.

Good luck.

Remember kiddies, in today's world, your promises mean jack ****.

- Rob

PS: I've made mistakes. And learned from them. Pity you can't attempt to fix a relationship and instead find it easier just to give up and move on. You're pathetic.

Another fine post from The ****tard Formerly known as Ca$h.

She brought up divorcing first, quite a while ago. After living in emotional purgatory for literally 5 or 6 years, I've gotten over it and decided to actually try to move on.

Clearer numbnuts?

Would you suggest I stay married until it gets so bad that we hate each others' ****ing guts?

Saul -- sorry to hear about your situation. Amicable divorce is not as uncommon as you may think. There's a growing trend toward "collaborative divorce." If you wish, contact me at brachiator at yahoo dot com and I'll be happy to give you some links to info. I couldn't imagine practicing family law myself (), but I know people who do!

Regardless, I think that if you two want to do it in the most productive and amicable way possible you should be able to find a lawyer wherever you are to help you through it, like it sounds like KarlG did.

good luck

Thank you.

you mean its not saul goode?




stupid jokes aside, that sucks.

so does cash.

wow. Me and Karl have a lot in common. Even the sharing the lawyer part. I was married for ten years, but never had any children.

Yeah, you can get divorced and still be friends. Can't say it's a worthwhile friendship, though. I always have a hollow feeling while we talk and share our life experiences. There's definitely something missing. Whatever it is that *real* friends feel for one another. I still care and still wish her the best, although her problems are no longer my responsibility.

It's easy to be friends if you don't love each other. Because there's no reason to fight. No point in arguing. It simply isn't worth the effort involved. I'm not sure you can be angry at someone you don't love. If you don't give a crap what they say or think, it's kinda hard for them to piss you off, right? The fact that couples argue and fight tells me they still care...as strange as that sounds. The time to worry is when they lose the urge to fight. When they finally give up all hope.

I wouldn't describe the relationship with my ex-wife as "friends". I'd call it something less. I wouldn't even be inclined to recommend it to others. Not talking at all is probably preferable. Because I can't see how I'm any better off after being "friends" with my ex-wife for the last 6 years.

There's no downside. But, worse, there's no upside either.

Move on. Don't look back.

And I'm sure you've known me formerly since you've been on these forums... oh ..... a bit over a year! Go you! You must know me really well!

Quote:

She brought up divorcing first, quite a while ago. After living in emotional purgatory for literally 5 or 6 years, I've gotten over it and decided to actually try to move on.

Yippie skippy! That makes everything okay then!

Quote:

Clearer numbnuts?

It's perfectly clear that you're willing to trash all of your invested time because you're too god damn lazy to fix anything about the relationship.

Quote:

Would you suggest I stay married until it gets so bad that we hate each others' fucking guts?

I would suggest make a ****ing attempt to keep things together. Forgeta bout the stupid bitch at the office, there are TONS of fine girls everywhere, but only ONE you've spent 14 yrs with. For what? Nothing? Did you take her out? Vacations? Listen? Discuss spirituality? Do anything to fix the situation and grow closer to her? Or did you just sit on your fat ass and grow apart, then once you're far enough apart to not give a **** you cut the cord and broke your promises.

What a ****ing chump.

Good luck to the new lady, I hope she tires of you and dumps your ass.

- Ca$h

Yep. Because today's society is ****ing awful, and nobody cares when people lie, cheat, go back on their words, or do other stupid things. The more I think about this, the more it ****ing pisses me off... what ever happened to good moral character with integrity and whatnot!?!?!

ARGH.

- Rob

Exactly. maybe you guys should just date a tamagotchi? That way when you get tired of it you can just throw it in a drawer and forget about it.

what a bunch of wankers.

- Rob

Look us up in a few years, Ca$h.

After you know enough to earn the right to give advice in these matters.

Considering my parents got divorced when I was 4, and my mom divorced the rich stepdad she remarried, I think I have plenty of experience with divorces and whatnot, Spliff. In fact, I'd say that I've dealt with divorces for a larger percentage of my life than the rest of you and I will say this: The ****ing suck. My grandparents fought quite a bit, and in today's society, they'd probably have gotten a divorce since everyone thinks a ****ing relationship is supposed to be love story/soap opera crap. It's not. It has ups and downs. That's the point of MARRIAGE. You promise to stay together in the ups AND THE DOWNS.

****ing liars.

- Rob

wow, cash is the new zimph...check out those replies one after another!


i hope things work out for you and your current partner. i'm sure it'll be rough but it also sounds like something that you were both waiting for. take care

Robert, you are way out of line. Lighten up on the rhetoric. You sound like a pissed of kid that can't get around the fact his parents spilt.

I agree completely with what Cash is saying.
A relationship is meant to be developed and not just given up by ending in divorce or getting comfortable with the idea of speration just because it's so prevalent in society today.

You haven't a clue. I would trade my upbringing with your whining ass any day. You have no idea.

You act as if it should be so simple, but it's not. When you grow up and have to face the real world maybe you'll get it, but I doubt it.

You have issues.

BTW, I've been here since September of 2000. Search for smacintush. I've been here PLENTY long enough to see you act like an ass every time you reach for the keyboard.



I'm glad to hear the rest of your stories, it makes me feel better. I think it'll workout OK.

I have no idea who you are or your backstory. I'm curious, just because everyone seems to know some dark history about you and thinks you a schmuck. Anyway, since I don't have any reason to respond in kind to you, I'll respond in good faith.

Do you really think "amicable divorce" is "awful" and indicative of corrupt moral character and lack of integrity? What then of standard adversarial divorce? Some people will part. Permanent monogamy does not appear to be natural or easy and not everyone can or eventually wants to play that role. Isn't it better and and an indicator of good character and high integrity to attempt to part on civilized, if not good, terms, sparing financial and emotional resources and preserving, if there are kids, some level of parental fabric? Rather than taking a scorched-earth approach?

Incidentally, do you know something more about Saul Goode and his relationship, something that he did not disclose to the rest of us in his post? Do you know, for example, the specifics of the vows he and his wife exchanged?

I don't know more than he wrote and wouldn't presume to condemn him on the little information he provided. And what harm is there to you or society from the mutual decision of this couple to end their relationship -- harm sufficient to justify your extreme responses?

I mean, unless there's a lot more to this story than I can see, I'm pretty appalled at your tirades.

Meant by whom?

Marriage: it's the new SVX.

Good luck with things, saul goode.

Ca$h is acting like you always have a choice whether to divorce or not.

"Work it out", he says.

With who? I ask. She doesn't want to work it out. She's gone. Buh bye. WORK WHAT OUT?

Dontcha know that in most divorces there is at least one person who doesn't want to get divorced?

So why do they get divorced?

Perhaps because there's no choice?

"Work it out" lol

ok.

When you commit to someone because you love them, that's what you do. That's what a commitment entails. You stick through the good times AND bad. All relationships have problems, that doesn't mean you just move on from one person to the next as soon as things seem to get bad (assuming you started off with good intentions and a serious commitment, just like marriage). It takes time and effort, not just to start it off well, but also to maintain the same throughout your relationship.

Great advice. I'm all for it.


Tell it to my ex-wife. She wasn't aware.

So, then, "meant by Macfreak?"

Can't people have different approaches to committment than you? Different thresholds of failure than you? Or even agree mutually to end the committment?

How much time?

How much effort?

Says who? God? I'm an atheist. Marriage means whatever my own principles say that it means.

I don't know how it came across that I take this lightly or that I haven't tried. I didn't mean to sound that way if I did. This whole ordeal is tearing me up. At some point though, you realize that the horse is dead and you put down the stick.

You didn't sound that way. Others took it that way, although I can't see quite how other than that your situation triggered some important issues or anguishes.

Things change. When I hear of people who get married, then get divorced 6 months later, I consider these people fools, but this guy said they had been together for 14 years. Sometimes things don't work out, and it's better to move on. A Marriage license does not mean a life of eternal misery, if things go wrong. It seems like this guy is doing the right thing. good luck.

Same old story here - 12 years of cohabitating, 4 married. I agree with spliffdaddy that the remaining-friends part, while nice if you can pull it off, is usually just awkward.

Nowadays, I only date Amish women.

He's barely an adult, just got married, and assumes he'll do it better, as we all did. His wife will eventually fire him for being a dipsh*t.

Fact is, when we got together I was 16. That's WAY too young to have a clue about whether or not a person is right for you. I'm surprised we made it this long, we've never REALLY been truly happy together.

ah, well, more power to george68 then, I suppose. Much as the arrogance and patronizing tone rankles, you sorta have to hope he can live up to his professed ideals without hurting others. thanks.

hahahahhahahahahahahahhaha,..

a couple of a$$holes talking from some kind of "unknowledgeable utopian moral high ground". you don't know ****ing ANYTHING about anyone else's experiences in life. NOT A F*CKING THING.

you have the goddamned NERVE to PREACH to another human being from your ****ing high horse. judgmental prick$.

simply amazing.

this man came in here to share something that was hurting his heart. and all you did was try and make him feel like ****.

shame on you. seriously. you should feel shame. of course you will feel none. not now anyway. one day it will all catch up to you.

I'm obviously not saying they should do it because *I* believe in it, or because of "marriage" or god or whatever (i'm agnostic, btw).


Sure.. yes, but in exchange for what? Just to go through the same BS again just because you don't want to develop a relationship that started out as fantastic?
Most cultures today have really degenerated. If this is how human beings *are* then how come people born earlier in the 20th century were able to keep up with problems in relationships, stick to their commitment, and even NOT get re-married after the death of their spouse? It's a failry large scale problem that's not just limited to relationships. People want everything quick and dirty, sacrificing quality for quantity. No one cares anymore about anything intellectual. It's all about how it FEELS. If it feels good, then do it! ********.

It obviously is sad that the original posters marriage isn't/hasn't been working out, but I was just pointing out that cash is spot on, and you all need to stop discouraging him and anyone else that might have similar ideas by saying it's ok to end in divorce just because both parties are lazy baby-boomers.
No offense, Saul Goode.

>>off topic<<

It's interesting to read the responses of a few in here and then read their opinions on gay marriage. Carry on.

>>back on topic<<

Sorry to hear that man. It sounds like it was a slow deterioration and that's often the most painful. Be careful with the new girl. Make sure it's for real and not just the "finally I'm feeling something again" bug. Good luck.

-Rob

subarusvx68, are you 19 yet? There is an age/experience restriction for being on that soap box. And an even stricter one for being on the high horse.

He's so much like us divorced guys it's downright scary.

I was Ca$h 15 years ago.

That's exactly what I'm afraid of.

I have no intentions of doing anything rash. One step at a time.

I'm in no emotional state to make anyone happy right now anyway.

To the original poster, life DOES go on. I trust after years you did not just wake up and decide to end things. Life goes on, and things can always get better. Hang in there.

To the george68 dude, you are the most arrogant, ignorant, waste of air I have ever read on a forum. I would not normally waste time replying to a pyschological mess like you as I am well aware that arguing on the internet is like peeing in the wind, but I must say you need serious help.

You know nothing about this man. Nothing about his life. Nothng about his family. Nothing about his history. Yet, you make the most ignorant, rash, convicted decisions about him in a nanosecond based on a paragraph of text or two. You are extremely lucky that people don't always make such ignorant and rash comments and decisions about you or I am sure you would be swinging on a rope from a tree branch by now.

Dude, you need to grow up. The more you speak about a situation you know NOTHING about the more of an idiot you look. Go back through this thread. Read the posts of people reacting to you. Do you honestly feel all of those people are wrong, and you are right?

Your family history doesn't count for jack **** to the original poster. What you experienced growing up is irrelevant. The original poster is in his own situation. His own life. His own problems. You know NOTHING about it. A one size fits all solution does not exist when we are talking about the human race. Open your eyes, shut your mouth, and you might learn something instead of trying to convince people you know everything.

Again, to the original poster, good luck. It WILL get better!

Well, then on what authority or for what reason? You'd said that relationships and commitments were "meant" to be some way other than how you'd assumed SG's was. If it's not your rule or god's or the definition of marriage, then why?



Maybe. Maybe to cut losses on something past the point of no return, and start something new with new things to learn? Are you assuming that all relationships will get better or keep deepening just because the partners intend them or want them to? If only that were so...

Im guessing that Saul doesn't have kids and if not, fine go for a divorce. But if you have kids, think about it seriously. My parents split up 2 months ago. My father came up with some **** about how he didn't love mum anymore, but he is a workaholic, and he was raised in a way that he doesn't know what love is. I still hate him and i will never forgive him for what he has done, but he doesnt give a ****. He just ran away and left a note and all the troubles behind. So any fellas out there thinking about doing something like this, think twice, cos you will not only regret it, but your kids will hate you and you will get no respect from anyone who knows what you have done.

Well yeah, in earlier times there wasn't as much divorce. But, the relationship wasn't equal then, either - the woman was inferior to the man, who was the boss. Have an argument? The man wins. Pretty good deal for him, and if the woman wants a divorce, good luck since she'll be ostracized, no one else will want to marry her, she won't have anyone to support her and in those times it's hard for her to get a decent job.

So I dunno about cultures having degenerated...

You're getting redundant. I already said that that's what a commitment entails. Why do you commit to someone? Because you love them and want to be with them for whatever reason (emphasis is on reason as well, you reason things out, not just act purely on how you feel for the person). If you don't love them then don't commit, it's not like you HAVE to be in a relationship just to avoid being seen as a loner.

Good luck. I hope there are no kids involved in this... if there are, seriously try to work it out some more.

It may appear redundant because I repeated my question, but I repeated it because you did not answer it.

You said, essentially, that thus and so was what a committment entailed. I asked you, essentially, why a committment had to be the way you described it. In reply, you never answered why or on what authority you were providing these definitions of "committment." You just gave more descriptions of your version of "committment." That's not an answer to my question. You don't have to give me anything more than "because I say so," but I am asking you for more...

For example, why does it have to be a reasoned decision to stay together or split up? Many of the early-20th century lifelong marriages you hark back to as ideal were based on irrational senses of duty, religious fear or fervor, societal pressure and economic and political pressures -- as well as lust and, well, love (hardly a rational complex of emotions!)

You are using terms like "love" and "committment" and "relationship" as if they were absolutely universally agreed upon terms in all aspects. They're not.

What's with the "loner" bit? I didn't catch that earlier in the thread.

I'm the last mofo on the face of the Earth that ever expected to be divorced.

Nobody, I mean nobody, put more effort into the endeavour of marriage than I did.

Til death did we part wasn't long enough for me.

All the trying, all the hoping, all the wishing doesn't matter unless *both* parties do it. There's no more frail foundation in the world than to put your faith in a human being. There's nothing more rewarding when it works - and there's no worse feeling than watching it crumble.

It's funny to think there was a time in my life when I would have done anything for my wife. Take a bullet for her? Gladly. Forgive her? Anytime. She was, after all, my sole purpose for living.

To tell me that I should have tried harder - that I didn't take my marriage seriously - that there was something more that I could have done - is pure lunacy.

Sure, I'm divorced. It doesn't make me at-fault. It doesn't mean I have bad judgement. It isn't a reflection of my upbringing. I have the best parents in the world. Who, by the way, have a 42 year track record of success.

I get to carry the stigma of divorce while I stand high on my moral platform. I get to feel good about myself because I have no regrets, because I met and exceeded all the requirements for being a husband. I get another chance because, in all honesty, I didn't screw up the first time. I earned a do-over. The next time I get married, guess what? I'm not doing a damned thing differently.

I think Saul Goode earned a do-over, too.

Kudos to you, Saul, for earning the right to feel good about yourself.

It'll take you a long way.

I'm not sure what you're asking then. Are you asking why should we commit? Or what does commiting entail or mean? Or what are the advantages of standing by your commitment?

I believe exactly the opposite of that. Staying in a bad marriage "for the kids" only causes more pain and suffering for everyone. If it is hopeless and both parents are miserable, the kids pick up on that and are miserable too.

But, if someone were to stay in a bad marriage "for the kids" never EVER say to them: "Look what I've done for you. I've been unhappy for so long to give to ..." - Your kids didn't ask you to do that, they didn't ask or want your "scrafice", they want you to be happy because when you are happy they are happy too.

My parents divorced 11 years ago (I'm 21 now), and I immediately recognized that it was for the best. We are all a lot better off, both parents remarried (1 for 9 years, 1 for 4). Granted it did take a few years for everyone to let the emotional wounds heal and move on, but it did happen.

The one thing that pisses me off about the whole thing was a few years ago when my mom told me that within the first few months she knew she would never be happy in the marriage - but she stayed with it because her sister (who knew my dad) had told her it wasn't going to work out. And my mom is so pig-headed that she'd rather stay in a bad marriage for years than admit she was wrong. Of course, she sticking with it resulted in me, so I can't be too upset about her decision.

If you make a mistake, recognized it and correct it as soon as possible. Divorce should never be the first option, but completly removing it as an option because you said "though good and bad" is idiotic. Sometimes you have to cut your losses.

- Chris

I think Ca$h needs a shrink. Some serious, deep-rooted childhood issues simmering away there, dude.