you have to take the mobo out, its behind the power supply if i remember correctly

so unplug and remove everything from the board, on the back side there will be some plastic lattice work held in by 1 screw, once removed things should be able to slide towards the front of the case and out

course the hard part is getting that bugger back together without killing the frail plastic tabs that hold it in place

As Osgeld said, you have to remove the motherboard. From memory, the procedure to remove the motherboard goes something like this:

- Shut down, unplug and open the machine

- Remove the CPU card, and any PCI cards you have installed

- Disconnect all the cables going to the logic board on the top of the machine

- Remove the power switch by pressing gently on the tabs and then pulling the power switch assembly forward

- Remove the centre screw holding the motherboard in

- Slide the board towards the front of the machine, then gently press up on one of the tabs at the top, and pull the motherboard towards you.

The motherboard should now be out of the machine, and the RAM slots should be right in front of you. Reverse these steps to get the machine back in one piece. As Osgeld said, be extremely careful when taking the machine apart, these machines are getting old, and as such the plastic is starting to get fragile.

And I vote once more from my own personal experience with this stupid case design that the 8500 gets a Road Apple award for user friendliness!

Make sure you make your ram selection wisely! I spent about 8 hours across two days a year or so ago when I was prepping my 8500 for use with a Digidesign rig. I would think Ijust got it the way I wanted, then would decide I would love to run it with a bit more memory, or would find that a couple of the ram sticks were bad that I was trying.. Utterly frustrating.

If you have all the ram to max out that box, put it all in ONCE and never have to screw with it again. Be very careful with that plastic button set thing at the bottom from of the motherboard too! I snapped mine, but luckily had a service part laying around in a box.

Good luck!

Yes, plan on RAM replacement being a 2+-hour affair. Some additions to the notes:

- Use a grounded wrist strap, or try to keep one hand on something grounded, like the power supply metal case, or one of the metal hoods on a back connector. At the very least, touch something grounded periodically, especially after you change body positions or move around at all.

- Once you have the thing open and RAM replaced, you can reconnect the bare board to the power supply, hard drives (flip the case upside-down, and the SCSI cable will then plug in nicely), and CPU card, and power it up, just to be sure the RAM isn't mis-installed. If you want to run it for a few minutes, point a fan at it to keep the CPU cool. This is a real time-saver, so you don't go through all the trouble of putting it back together, only to find one of the RAM sticks wasn't seated properly.

I happened to pick up a 9500 at a garage sale a while back, and find its design refreshingly easy to deal with. You just pop open the side panel, and you have access to the full motherboard without having to remove anything. Since it's the same board as the 8500, I would have used it instead, except it has two cooling fans and a beefier power supply, so it's noisy as hell. Oh well.

I am not usually one to preach about static, but it is winter time for most of us, and that stuff does fly around the air

and seconded on you could hook back up the board before putting it all back into place, I used to leave mine standing up and kinda hinged / wedged into kinda sorta place, but you have to make sure it doesnt get loose and short out, or you will have bigger problems

I happened to pick up a 9500 at a garage sale a while back, and find its design refreshingly easy to deal with. You just pop open the side panel, and you have access to the full motherboard without having to remove anything. Since it's the same board as the 8500, I would have used it instead, except it has two cooling fans and a beefier power supply, so it's noisy as hell. Oh well.

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The 8500 and the 9500 logic boards are fairly different, mainly because the 9500 has six PCI slots and the 8500 has only 3. Might you have been thinking of the 9500 vs. the 9600? Or 8500 vs. 8600?

That would make more sense, as I've also heard that the 9500 case is as much of a bear as the 8500 case, but that the 9600 case (and 8600 case) was nice.

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To sum up. The 8500 case sucks. I've heard that the 9500 case sucks too. The 9600 case and 8600 case were quite nice with the fold out panel for the logic board. The 9500 and 9600 logic boards have the same form factor. The 8500 and 8600 logic boards have the same form factor. However, the x600 versions used a different power supply connector than the x500 versions. Other than the power supply connector, the only difference is that the ROM was updated on the x600. The x500 has the $77D.28F1 ROM. The x600 has the $77d.34F2 (IIRC) ROM. The ROM chips are labeled 341S0168 through 341S0171 and 341S0280 through 341S0283 respectively. This only applies to the 8600 and 9600. The 7600 still had the original x500 ROM. The 7300 got the 0280 - 0283 ROM. I can't remember whether the power supply connector switch happened on the 7600 or the 7300.

Just for completeness sake...when the Kansas/MachV machines came out, Apple kept the nice 8600 and 9600 case and kept the x600 power supply pinout, but changed the motherboard again. The primary change was some kind of power supply pin change in the CPU slot (3.3V supply?) and the ROM, again. The Kansas (AKA 8600 Enhanced and 9600 Enhanced) has $77D.34F5, 341S0380 through 341S0383 for the ROM.

Incidentally, if you install the Kansas ROM in one of the older machines, then Speculative Processing on G3 processors works without any work arounds.

Whoops, you're right; I meant an 8600. I get that and the 9500/9600 confused a lot. Even then, the 8600's logic board is a slightly different shape, and some of the connectors go a different direction, so you couldn't literally put it inside an 8500 case. I also had a 7600 for a while, and too was tempted by its utter simplicity in changing things out (it lacked video input, alas).

At this point, I've probably opened my 8500 over 10 times and disassembled it. Fairly regularly I swap hard drives out, and even that is an exercise in frustration, given how cramped it is. Like others have said, plan ahead and be sure you've decided on exactly what you want in there.

I cut my hand quite badly the last time I had to install RAM in an 8500. If I were ever going to act out the printer scene from Office Space, it would be with an 8500. No computer draws blood from me and lives. }

Just for completeness sake...when the Kansas/MachV machines came out, Apple kept the nice 8600 and 9600 case and kept the x600 power supply pinout, but changed the motherboard again. The primary change was some kind of power supply pin change in the CPU slot (3.3V supply?) and the ROM, again. The Kansas (AKA 8600 Enhanced and 9600 Enhanced) has $77D.34F5, 341S0380 through 341S0383 for the ROM.

Incidentally, if you install the Kansas ROM in one of the older machines, then Speculative Processing on G3 processors works without any work arounds.

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Hmmm. That suggests that a Sonnet G4 card from a 9500 will not work in the Kansas MB, or am I completely off base there?

Sorry about not getting your quote properly identified in the above post Traq. I obviously didn't figure out how to quote only part of the post.

Sorry about not getting your quote properly identified in the above post Traq. :rambo: 8-o : :b&w: :beige: Weeee editing!

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djfbgjkbfvsndfv alkwuefhlawndcnjklv asihldubfuyabvsugvasbvkjhml



^^^ Extreme quote example action!

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And some Extreme edit button typo fixing action too!

hehehe

Sorry about not getting your quote properly identified in the above post Traq. I obviously didn't figure out how to quote only part of the post.

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Not a problem, and to answer your question, most of the third party upgrades, such as those from Sonnet, work fine in the Kansas machines. The upgrades that came out before the Kansas was released probably won't work. And I think there were a few on which you actually had to change a DIP switch setting if it was going in a Kansas.

Ultimately, you need to find a compatibility/system-requirements list for your upgrade to know whether it will work in a Kansas machine. For that matter, some of the upgrades don't work in the Catalyst-based Power Computing machines. Those require some trickiness with a couple of CPU signals.

I cut my hand quite badly the last time I had to install RAM in an 8500. If I were ever going to act out the printer scene from Office Space, it would be with an 8500. No computer draws blood from me and lives. }

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You need to be more careful. I have been in and out of a 8500 so many times (same with an Q800/840AV) I can get to RAM in a minute if that.

If I took a sledgehammer to a 8500 it would be because of the brittle plastic that snaps if you look at it funny.

You need to be more careful. I have been in and out of a 8500 so many times (same with an Q800/840AV) I can get to RAM in a minute if that.If I took a sledgehammer to a 8500 it would be because of the brittle plastic that snaps if you look at it funny.

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Truth, cept 8100 for me.

I have a Raius 81/110 (no 8100), that case would damage the sledge! Oddly enough the 6100 seems to be ok and of the same vintage (7100 is mostly metal).

I swear the 8500 and 9500 are the worst for brittle plastic, 8600 is fine.

I cut my hand quite badly the last time I had to install RAM in an 8500. If I were ever going to act out the printer scene from Office Space, it would be with an 8500. No computer draws blood from me and lives. }

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You need to be more careful.

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Thanks for the tip.

I cut my hand quite badly the last time I had to install RAM in an 8500. If I were ever going to act out the printer scene from Office Space, it would be with an 8500. No computer draws blood from me and lives. }

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You need to be more careful.

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Thanks for the tip.

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Not worried about the bandaid, but old machines are rusty and who knows what is growing or has been dumped on them. A small cut could end up being deadly. Before penecillin was discovered people used to drop dead from all kinds of small cuts (shaving cuts etc) after getting blood poisining.

You need to be more careful. I have been in and out of a 8500 so many times (same with an Q800/840AV) I can get to RAM in a minute if that.If I took a sledgehammer to a 8500 it would be because of the brittle plastic that snaps if you look at it funny.

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Truth, cept 8100 for me.

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The 8100 and 8500 are very similar case designs I believe.

Good luck to you. The first time I opened my 9500 I vowed never to do it again until I have enough parts collected to fill every slot and upgrade every component so I only have to do it once. I am so glad I have an 8600 and 2 beige G3's. Those cases are such a joy to open and work inside.

One case that really ticked me off was the 6400/6500 tower. What a mess trying to open and work on. I got a lot of scraped knuckles and crushed fingertips inside one of those.

You need to be more careful. I have been in and out of a 8500 so many times (same with an Q800/840AV) I can get to RAM in a minute if that.If I took a sledgehammer to a 8500 it would be because of the brittle plastic that snaps if you look at it funny.

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Truth, cept 8100 for me.

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The 8100 and 8500 are very similar case designs I believe.

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Yes, but the same case is also used by the Quadra 800/840AV.

One case that really ticked me off was the 6400/6500 tower. What a mess trying to open and work on. I got a lot of scraped knuckles and crushed fingertips inside one of those.

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Oh yeah, I hear you there...I did work experience at an AASP back in 2001/2002, and had to work on a few Instatowers (the 6400/6500 case), every time I removed that damn front panel I always felt like I was going to break something!

The 6400/6500 case design is what you get when designers stay up too long on a weekend under the influence of alcohol. Very easy to get the motherboard tray out, but the rest of the internals are a mess.

On my 6500 I slightly shaved the nubs that hold the two front pieces on so that you can remove them more easily but they still stay on there.

As for the plastic side panels.. I do not have much advice there. :S

I cut my hand quite badly the last time I had to install RAM in an 8500.

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And here I read your post several days ago, thinking "I don't cut myself anymore on my 8500". I had it open yesterday when installing a video card, and after closing it, my thumb hurt. I figured it was just the pressing I was doing. I look over and it's bleeding! So add another victim.