Skip to main content
Home▸ Forums▸ 68kMLA▸ Homebrew microcomputers & video generation — #19
Post #19 by Grackle
Source Forum68kMLA
CategoryHardware
Post DateFri, 1 Mar 2013 - 05:59
Original URLhttps://68kmla.org/bb/threads/homebrew-microcomputers-amp-video-generation.27426/
Post
That cypress psoc looks fantastic. Very interesting. I had seen the freesoc before but I didn't think it was anything more than a funky arduino clone.

Linux is more rotund than robust, if you get my drift.
Hah, yes. I suppose I was trying not to seem completely self-serving in my characterization of linux systems, but I do agree with you there.

On the topic of OSes... I haven't looked too deeply into existing ones, but they're in the back of my mind. FreeRTOS or Contiki or something? I'm not sure. Right now I am more interested in creating the bare minimum of necessary firmware. I just want a monitor program to start. I think it's important to make the system unobtrusive and modular; like a set of tools rather than a guiding framework. That's somewhat intentionally vague... I haven't thought much about it yet, but my basic feeling is that "useful set of tools" is more enticing than "esoteric operating system." While everybody likes their own pet operating systems, far fewer people want to work on someone else's. Ramble ramble. Like I said, I haven't put a whole lot into this topic yet.

Anyway even if I do end up with something more complex, I know I need to start small if I want to get anywhere, so the first goal is just the monitor.

If you're a purist and you really want to own everything that goes on with your computer you have no choice but to stay away from ARM SoCs. Period.
...

(One "scary" aspect of many SoC's is it's often technically the undocumented DSP that's in control on power-on, with it providing at the lowest level the basic storage device/file system support to grab the necessary blobs and an ARM bootloader off the flash filesystem.
I honestly had no idea that the blobs were so pervasive. I knew that the RPi had one and that my beagleboard's omap3530 had one, but I didn't know they were so deeply integrated into the low-level functions. I thought they were just for graphics and DSP stuff.

Maybe it's not such a big deal. Owning every aspect of the system isn't a philosophical requirement of mine, but it may end up being a practical requirement (if I find that it's more mess/effort than finding a lesser device that doesn't have blobs.) I'll have to do some digging and see what options are out there, as the topic is new ground for me.

In the meantime I'm considering the option of using a combination of FPGA and smaller ARM SoC... The FPGA could handle the video interface and some cheap/large/fast DDR2 memory to act as the system memory and video framebuffer. Microsemi (formerly actel) even makes some FPGAs with integrated hard arm cores, but they're a little on the expensive side.

In any case, if bigmessofwires can build and design a CPU and OS from scratch out of TTL logic, I say hang the practicalities and chase that dream! If the purpose is self-education and amusement, do it your way.
Honestly I think someone would probably be better off trying to build a trivial CPU out of TTL logic as a first project than they would be trying to make from scratch a computer that's not a replica of some preexisting architecture using an FPGA. An FPGA is a gigantic wad of electronic tinkertoys that *can* be turned into a computer but to do it you need to be able to describe one in meticulous detail. If you're fuzzy on what you really want you're going to be spending a lot of time scratching your head and thinking "Huh, okay, I downloaded the code for a soft-68k CPU... now what?".

But if, like me, you are easily discouraged and distracted, treading a path already partly worn by others may well help, at least for Mark 1.
Well, if I could list the projects I've thought about but haven't finished... :-/

This is one I've been thinking about for a long time though, and each time I'm in a better position to make things happen.

But again, hey, if you're really up for pulling off the creation of a completely modern high-speed 1.8v logic machine with your current skillset don't let anyone stop you.
Indeed... I know I have limits, but I'm trying to learn as much as possible, and I can cut things out and/or relax my requirements as I find things that are beyond my abilities. I can't solder BGA by hand, but I can manage QFP and SSOP just fine, and those are still somewhat common. My high frequency PCB design skills are lacking and some system integration topics give me trouble, but app notes are my friend there. Plus, with my preferred PCB service (OSHPark) I can get high quality 4 layer boards for $10 per square inch, so prototyping costs aren't too high.

Those are my thoughts for now. No "real" updates as I've been very busy with work, but the weekend is coming up and I'll have time to get back to the fun stuff.