Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1993 10:16:09 -0500
From: tas2@cornell.edu (Thomas Scott)
Subject: Color LCD Projection Report
About 8 months ago, I requested info about users' experiences with LCD
projection panels. I got a number of responses, and I was going to post
to sumex, but didn't get a chance to. Yesterday I got a request from one
of
the Info-Mac readers to send him any info I did get. It cleared out the
cobwebs, and I realized that there wasn't anything like this currently on
sumex, so I'm posting it now.
However, everything in the technology world changes almost on a daily
basis.
I'm sure there's been many changes, especially with the October rollout of
new Macs, and the never-ending run of 3rd party vendors to introduce new
peripherals to keep up with Apple's changing line.
If you seen any changes in this field since last May that could enhance
this report, please send them to me at tas2@cornell.edu, and I'll udpate
this report to the archive.
I hope the info helps people out there trying to make a decision in this
field, and I think that new info will make this report even more benefical.
Thanks!
Please post this in the /report directory.
[Archived as /info-mac/report/Color-LCD-Proj-Panels-10.txt; 35K]
Thomas Scott, Systems Manager, College of Engineering
Cornell University, Carpenter Hall Annex, Ithaca, NY 14853
My original question:
I'm in the processing of looking at LCD panels to be used on an overhead
projector for a few of my offices. I'm hoping to get a good quality,
reasonably-priced color LCD system which we'll be using to give
presentations with Persuasion-generated "slides". We're discussing the
possibility of higher-end multimedia productions sometime in the near
future (probably not for at least a year), so the system should be able to
handle video input, without much degradation of quality and such that the
video isn't "choppy".
I've seen a couple of opinions on a couple of systems recently in Info-Mac,
but I'd like to get at much more input as possible. Does anyone have a
source of a review of this type of hardware? Can you give me info on what
color LCD panel has (or hasn't) worked for you? I need as much info as
possible. Please respond directly to me; I disconnected from Mac-L about a
week ago. If I get enough response, I'll summarize to the list (and
possibly post to sumex).
P.S. I'd also like to provide portability for our presentation system; our
presenters often go out on the road. I'd like to know how feasible it is
to interface one of these LCD panels with a PowerBook 170. What other
hardware would I need to allow this setup? Again, thanks for your help!
:-))
_________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Lunderville (5/20/92)
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 09:01 CST
From: Dan Lunderville <Dan.D.Lunderville@uwrf.edu>
I recently had to decide about some b/w and color LCD panels for use with a
portable Mac setup. We will use a PowerBook 170 connected to a color LCD
panel on a mobile cart for classroom use. A colleague and I went to a
product show and I made some notes for my own reference afterward. Someone
else asked about LCD panels on Info-Mac and I sent her a copy of my notes.
She sent them as part of a message to the Info- Mac Digest, but the message
got truncated, and only the info on the b/w panels got through. I have
appended my notes here in hopes that they might be useful to you. I have
not received any of the equipment yet, and it will be mid-summer before I
have had much chance to work with it, but if you want to contact me then, I
would be glad to give you my impressions after using it for a while. The
real test won't ahppen until next fall when it gets used in a real
classroom situation.
To make the PB 170 drive the LCD panel, you must buy some type of video
adapter. There are different types available, some use the SCSI port, some
install a board inside the PB 170. We chose one made by Envisio. It is a
small board that goes inside the PB 170 and provides a standard Mac II
video connector on the outside. This unit is not cheap though, we paid
about $850, and that was an educational price. I have not seen reviews of
these adapters, but there was mention of them in MacWorld and MacUser in
the issues that described the PowerBooks when they were first released.
It seems that the choice of an LCD panel is somewhat personal choice, and
so it is hard to choose for someone elses use. I would strongly suggest
that you see any panels in action before you buy them.
Dan Lunderville Internet:
Dan.D.Lunderville@UWRF.EDU
Academic Computing Center AppleLink: U0095
University of Wisconsin - River Falls
River Falls, WI 54022 Telephone: (715) 425-3583
U.S.A.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Notes regarding LCD Shootout held by Blumberg Communications,
4/30/92
Blumberg sponsored an "LCD Shootout" for customers wanting to buy an LCD
projection panel for use with overhead projectors. They had 16 different
units on display, 4 black and white and 12 color units. All units were in
the same darkened room and all used the same overhead projector, a Dukane
model 653, with a rating of 3000 lumens. A few of the units did not need a
separate projector because the unit had a self-contained projector.
Three black and white units seemed acceptable to us, but they had flaws that caused us to be uneasy about purchasing them. Two of the units were LCD
panels that required use of a separate overhead projector. These were the
Sharp QA-75 and the In-Focus 1600GS. The In-Focus was a little brighter,
and its text mode could be adjusted a bit better, but the differences
between the In-Focus 1600GS and the Sharp QA-75 were not major. The thing
that really bothered us was that each panel showed ghosting, or streaks at
the ends of graphics boxes, such as scroll bars in a window. These streaks
extended right through other windows at times. At first they weren'Ut too
apparent, but after a while they became a real irritant. The third black
and white unit, the nView nSight, combined an LCD panel with a projector in
one unit. This unit impressed us, but it was not available until June, so
it was not an option for us. In the future I would give close
consideration to this unit.
The fourth black and white unit, the Proxima MultiMode II, A482SC used ugly
purplish and yellowish RcolorsS, and we rejected it right away.
The folks from Blumberg told us about a black and white unit that they felt
was quite good, but was not at the show. It was the nView II + 2. They
said that it did not have as much of the streaking problem as the other
units. It was in the same price range as the Sharp QA-75 and the In-Focus
1600GS.
We later viewed a Sharp QA-50 black and white panel in the Physics Dept. at
UWRF. This panel was not present at the shootout. We were impressed with
the QA-50. It was crisp and clear, with even focus in all directions. Its
controls were clear and easy to use, and its price was about $300-400
cheaper than the Sharp QA-75 and the In-Focus 1600GS. We decided to buy a
QA-50 unit.
We spent a long time viewing and considering the color LCD panels. From
previous research, the top contenders were the Sharp QA-1050, the Proxima
Ovation, the In-Focus TVT3000, and the nView SpectraPlus and Media Pro.
After the first couple of passes around the room, we were drawn to the
nView SpectraPlus because of its brighter, sharper image and even focus
>From top to bottom and left to right. The image seemed crisper and more
pleasing to the eye than on any of the other units. The images on some of
the other units were washed out and dim. On several, such as the Sharp
QA-1050, the image could not be focused evenly from left to right. Part of
the screen was in focus (no pun intended) and part was fuzzy. Many of the
units had controls that were overly complex or downright mysterious to
operate. The controls on the nView SpectraPlus were clear and easy to use.
We expected the better nView model, the Media Pro, to be the better unit,
but based on what we saw, it was not. We tried to put the units into
various modes, such as Windows, DOS text, etc., to get a good feel for each
ones capabilities. In the end the nView SpectraPlus seemed clearly
superior to us.
The choice of an overhead projector for use with an LCD panel is important.
The projector must be bright enough to display a bright image in a
partially lit room. Blumberg recommended a projector with a rating of 3000
lumens or more. The Dukane model 653 mentioned above seemed acceptable,
but we decided to buy 3M projectors instead. The 3M model 955 has two
intensity settings, one at 3000 lumens and one at 3800 lumens. The 955 is
more expensive than the Dukane and not quite as portable, but the extra
brightness of the 955 was considered very important, especially for use
with the color LCD panel. We purchased one 955 unit. We also purchased
one 3M model 920 overhead projector. This model has an intensity of 2200
lumens. Our intended use was with the QA-50 black and white panel. It was
cheaper than the Dukane 653, and the brightness seemed quite adequate for
the black and white panel. The Physics Dept. has a model 920 projector and
it was this projector that we used when we tested the Sharp QA-50, and it
performed well.
Bear in mind that these observations were done by two people, Bev Shepherd
and Dan Lunderville, UWRF Academic Computing.. We were considering the purchase of an LCD panel for use with a portable
classroom computer setup. Other people with different uses may have viewed
the situation differently.
The nView SpectraPlus color LCD panel is designed to drive both the panel
and the monitor on the computer. You order it with the cable set you want
and the other cables can be ordered as options. If you want to use the
panel with both a Mac II type machine and IBM VGA, order it with the Mac
cable set, and order the IBM VGA cable as an option at about $100. If you
order it with the VGA cable set and the Mac cable set as an option, it will
cost about $60 more.
The Sharp QA-50 b/w unit is not designed to drive both the panel and the
monitor. To use both with it you will have to purchase a VGA
splitter/amplifier for about $175.
We paid $956 for the Sharp QA-50 b/w panel, and about $4300 for the nView
SpectraPlus color panel. Both prices were from a Univ. of Wisc state
contract. I think the list prices were $1295 and $5995. Most of the panels
in the same categories had prices similar.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
_________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 19 May 1992 14:23 CST
From: pt1811s@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Sounds like you would be happy with a MediaShow from nView Corp. I don't
currently have one, but hopefully will by the end of the summer. Everyone
I know that does own one is very happy with it.
I would also recommend you purchase a high end over head projecter that
produces very bright light. (3M is what I use) It is about $600 vs $200
but well worth it. I think the 3M I have produces 3000 lumuns.
Envisio is the only firm I can think of that has video out of the
powerbook. Radus has a SCSI adapter for video out, but I haven't heard
good things about it (speed mainly). If you can wait, the rumor is that
Apple's new "Docking" stations will have video out. An Apple product will
definately be the best solution.
Opinions of: Paul Thibodeau Senior Consultant-Drake University
_________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 19 May 1992 12:54 PST
From: "GRANT RAMSAY" <GRAMSAY%ewuvms.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
I have purchased 3 Multimedia capable panels over the last year and I am
very satistied with them. They are the Ovation active matrix, 224,000
color panels from Proxima. My source for these has been:
Minnesota Western
5828 Vallejo Street
Oakland, CA 94608-2697
(510)428-9000
The last Ovation I purchased from them was for $6200.00. They come with
every thing you need for Mac II or VGA connection. The panel has direct
connections for RCA and S-Video input and has some rudimentary audio
controls. It comes with software and cables to give you limited keyboard
control for the included IR remote. For example, it lets you do frame
forward and reverse functions in MarcoMedia's Director slide shows from the
remote.
The last panel we baught was for a PowerBook 170 for our CIO. He wanted a
very portable presentation system and that is what he got. It will all fit
into a single Targa case. If you can get delivery of the Envisio interface
for the PowerBook, do it, and make sure that you buy it loaded with memory.
There is no room left in the PowerBook once this is installed. If I were
buying a video interface again I would probably go for the Radius PowerView
SCSI device to be able to use it on the assortment of PowerBooks we have on
campus.
Envisio, Inc.
510 1st Avenue, Suite 303
Minneapolis, MN 55403
(612) 339-1008
And they offer an educational discount! We baught the NDA030/4 for
$1116.50 but it took about two months to get it they were so heavily back
ordered.
I hope this helps a little. I haven't had much experience with other
panels other than to go and look at them. I got lucky on my first buy and
have stuck with them. The only draw back with the Ovation is that if you
plan to use its audio control feature it is only monophonic and for some
reason is disabled when video from the computer is selected.
Grant M. Ramsay, Eastern Washington University
Client Services, MS #89, Cheney, WA 99004
_________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 19 May 92 15:33 CDT
From: Dave Faulkner Academic Computing <DAVEF@UWLAX.EDU>
I would certainly be interested in your feedback on the LCD panels. I
have recently read a variety of literature on LCD's as we also are looking
to purchase. The three highest rated that I found that handled video and
digital were nView Media Pro ($10K list price), Proxima Ovation ($8,500)
and Sharp QA-1050 ($6500). These are ranked from top choice down. I
suspect that the educational pricing is considerably less then the list
price, however, I have not yet obtained that info. My recommendation is
the Ovation because: capable of displaying live video without an addin
computer video board or external adapter box; it supports connection of
optional powered speakers; hand held remote control unit; works with Mac
or PC platform; supports NTSC and PAL based VCR's video disc and TV;
capable of 24,389 colors; can have all 4 inputs filled and the LCD can
automatically detect signal type.
Media Pro - nView Corp. - (804) 873-1354
Ovation - Proxima Corp. - (619) 457-5500
QA - Sharp Elec. Corp - (201) 529-8731
If you are looking for cheaper, but less capabilities, checkout InFocus.
They have color LCD's for under $4500 which are decent. (800) 327-7231.
Sorry, no experience with Powerbooks, however, my reading tells me that
they need a third party adapter to use external monitors or projection.
Rumor mill suggests that Apple will include this output port on the new
Powerbooks.
_________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 20 May 1992 09:05:49 -2300
From: cl7841s@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
We use 1-bit N-VU projection panels here at Drake, but I have see the full
color Media Pro model in action (our local Apple corporate folks showed the
SuperBowl on it this year). It looks great!! the only downside I know of
is the price - rather steep. But they do look great!
Colin Lamb - MacMeister 8-)> - Drake University - Des Moines
_________________________________________________________________
From: siochi@pcs.cnc.edu (Antonio Siochi)
Date: Wed, 20 May 92 11:46:46 EDT
Read your post in imac re: lcd panels. I've been collecting info for some
time on them, but haven't had time to DIGEST/summarize. Here's what info I
have at the moment. Each item is preceeded by a line of
================.
Hope this helps.
-Anton (siochi@pcs.cnc.edu)
p.s. If you find anything else, please let me know. thanks!
=========================
>From elman@crl.ucsd.edu Wed Mar 4 10:56:55 1992
I've also been interested in this, and would appreciate any information you
get.
I've been told that you need to buy an adapter card for the PB that will
produce the right output signal to drive an LCD projection panel. There's a
company called Envisio that makes such a device. It retails for between
$500-$1000, depending on whether you buy extra memory for the PB at the
same time. (Their board sits in the extra meory slots, so if you want or
have extra memory, you have to put it on their board. The memory remains
available even when their board is not in use.) Then you also need to get
a separate LCD projection system.
Someone else said they thought it ought to be possible to get an LCD that
didn't require this. I don't see how, th ough, since the PB has no video
out.
i can send you the information from Envisio if you want (I just sent them a
FAX inquiry yesterday and am expecting to get a reply today). I'd
appreciate getting copies of any replies you get. Thanks,
Jeff Elman, UCSD
============================
>From Les.Ferch@mtsg.ubc.ca Thu Mar 5 14:58:53 1992
Well, the old Mac Portable had a video out connection but the new
PowerBooks require a third party modification to get video output. That
aside, my conclusion after looking at numerous panels and having had
experience with several brands is that the Proxima panels are the best. We
have a 3M 2080 (which is a Proxima with 3M's name on it and one feature we didn't need removed) and it is
superb with Mac, VGA, and Hercules video. It is a monochrome (actually grey
scale) panel with a pleasing blue coloured LCD. The Proxima active matrix
colour LCD is just amazing (but also very expensive).
With any of these panels, a really good overhead projector with a cool
stage is important. 3M or Proxima will be happy to sell you one to match
the panel.
Also, consider the new all in one LCD projection systems that are a
complete projector (light source and LCD) in one box. If you're on the
road, these systems relieve you of the worry of counting on someone else to
provide a good projector. I can't remember which brands are good, but I
recall seeing at least two good units at MacWorld Expo.
Note that active matrix is not required for computer displays, but makes a
difference especially if your displays have motion. It is essential if you
intend to connect a video source such as a VCR or laserdisc with
full-motion scenes. Of course, conventional three beam projectors are also
an option but are not very portable.
============================
From: Carol Taylor <ctaylor%diana.cair.du.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
I used an older Electrohome monochrome unit at a previous job. It was a
real pain in the neck. It always seemed to be broken. I would not be very
interested in another one of their products.
We currently have GE Imagers (1-2 years old, models no longer available) in
two classrooms. They are hooked to a Mac IIcx and an IBM PS/2 (VGA). The
provide us with very nice large screen output. We have them ceiling mounted
but our building shimmies and shakes a lot and they do seem to require a
certain amount of adjustment to keep them properly focussed. Our media
services staff handles this easily -- it's not a technical adjustment. In
general they have been reliable and we have been pleased. I think a
high-reflectance screen is probably worth the extra bucks.
If portability is an issue you might want to consider looking at some of
the newer generation of projection panels that sit on top of an overhead
projector. This technology, although not yet of the quality of the ceiling
mount stuff, has improved by leaps and bounds lately. Als…
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