Thread
G4 Digital Audio 533 Questions...
I've spent about AUD$380 (USD$348) on mine so far. In addition to the machine itself (AUD$118, most of that was shipping from one side of the country to the other) I bought a faster CPU, Apple Pro keyboard and mouse, a replacement HDD carrier (the machine had had its original HDD removed and carrier discarded), 9800 Pro video card and a DVD-RW to replace the CD-RW in the machine. I still need RAM which is going to sting. 1.5GB of PC133 SDRAM compatible with the machine will set me back about AUD$233 if I buy from OWC in the states (prices are just ridiculous here).
Sounds like you have a nice machine, LSD!
Also, there's just something about buying a less than stellar machine and upgrading it. I know that at some point it simply doesn't make sense, but there's value in the enjoyment I get out of the upgrade process.
Also, there's just something about buying a less than stellar machine and upgrading it. I know that at some point it simply doesn't make sense, but there's value in the enjoyment I get out of the upgrade process.
So far I've spent only $AU66 to buy the machine, AU$70 for the dual 533, about $10 for an ATX power extender so I can use an ATX PS, $10 on a Rage 128 AGP; RAM and drives recycled out of other machines. Down the track I'll look for a faster/dual head video card, a fast ATA or SATA RAID card, and an audio DSP card (Creamware).
I bought a clean 733 MHz G4 DA (256MB RAM, 9GB HDD, DVD-R superdrive, NVIDIA GeForce2 MX) three years ago for $300USD. I spent $75USD for a OWC 512MB PC133 memory stick, $75USD for a 120GB HDD (this model can only handle drive up to 120GB w/o replacing the drive controller), and $150USD for OS 10.4.6 and iLife '06. Totaled out at $600USD. I have had three good years with it. It runs OS 10.4.10 with no trouble.
A few slow points:
1. Handbrake takes 24 hrs plus to copy a DVD.
2. If I have more than ten or so browser windows open in Firefox it starts to slow down.
BTW: in normal use and even when playing Neverwinter Nights I have had good performance from the NVIDIA GeForce2 MX.
I have been questioning myself whether or not it is worth to put any more money into this machine.
What I would like to do:
1. Add firewire 800 (it now only has 400)
2. Add USB 2.0 (it now only has 1.1)
3. Add a SATA controller
4. Add about 500 GB of drive space
5. A faster superdrive (mine burns DVD-Rs at 1x)
6. A better graphics card (a 9800 pro would be my preference)
7. Put in a dual 1.6 GHz processor module
8. Max out the memory
This will cost big bucks. I am really not sure it is worth it compared to a macbook or a low end Intel iMac.
See ya,
David
A few slow points:
1. Handbrake takes 24 hrs plus to copy a DVD.
2. If I have more than ten or so browser windows open in Firefox it starts to slow down.
BTW: in normal use and even when playing Neverwinter Nights I have had good performance from the NVIDIA GeForce2 MX.
I have been questioning myself whether or not it is worth to put any more money into this machine.
What I would like to do:
1. Add firewire 800 (it now only has 400)
2. Add USB 2.0 (it now only has 1.1)
3. Add a SATA controller
4. Add about 500 GB of drive space
5. A faster superdrive (mine burns DVD-Rs at 1x)
6. A better graphics card (a 9800 pro would be my preference)
7. Put in a dual 1.6 GHz processor module
8. Max out the memory
This will cost big bucks. I am really not sure it is worth it compared to a macbook or a low end Intel iMac.
See ya,
David
If you upgrade the processor on a G4, can you still boot into OS 9?
oh yea. a Mac that can boot O s9 will always boot OS 9 nomatter the hardware upgrades. the only thing is the video cards ( newer ones are not going to have support in OS 9)
By "support" do you mean they won't show a thing? Cause that would suck.
the newer video cards dont have OS 9 drivers so the card wont have accelerator functions , will be stuck at 640x480, so it will be mostly useless to use in OS9.
it would be sweet to some how hack a driver to make them supported under OS 9, but i think that would be like pissing in the wind
Just been checking out ATI's website:
Radeon 9200:
9600 PRO: OS X 10.3.6 and later
9800 PRO Mac Edition: OS X 10.2.5 or later
9800 PRO Mac Special Edition: OS X 10.2.8 or 10.3.3 and later
X800 XT Mac Edition: Mac® OS X 10.3.6 and later
X1900 G5 Mac Edition: OS X 10.4.7 or higher
Radeon 9200:
So presumably that wouldn't apply to an AGP version of the 9200 (is there one?)
9600 PRO: OS X 10.3.6 and later
9800 PRO Mac Edition: OS X 10.2.5 or later
9800 PRO Mac Special Edition: OS X 10.2.8 or 10.3.3 and later
X800 XT Mac Edition: Mac® OS X 10.3.6 and later
X1900 G5 Mac Edition: OS X 10.4.7 or higher
I you want to still be able to boot into OS 9, would the best option be to keep the stock NVIDIA GeForce2 MX?
Yes there is a 9200 AGP card , if its a flashed PC card or not i would not know. but i would think both the PCI or AGP versions would work the same
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Image#Supported_Graphics_Processors
So unless I'm mistaken, and barring further more detailed research, looks like you get to pick either Core Image or OS 9 support, but not both. On a single card, that is.
on my DA i will choose CI over OS 9 compatibility, the Os 9 compatibility will be for my AIO and Yikes G4. My DA is going to be OS X only
Does anyone know if I can use an MDD CPU in a DA?
you might be able to, it just might need the 12v mod ( a 12v feed to the 4th mounting point on the MDD's CPU in a DA) before it would work and maybe a mod to get the CPU to run at its rated speed ( since the MDD's system bus is 167mhz and the DA's system bus is 133mhz)
The short answer is "no." Never mind for a moment that the MDD CPU is oriented on the socket differently... The MDD has a different set of support chips and bridge chips for the CPU that will make it logically incompatible with a QuickSilver, Digital Audio, Gigabit Ethernet, or Sawtooth G4.
Peace,
Drew
Peace,
Drew
I finally got off my ass and got mine running today. Modifying the video card went smoother than I was expecting. Most of the troubles I had were down to the donor machine acting cranky (it has a VIA board in it so, uh, yeah...). Was a relief when it worked right off the the bat. I'm still installing and updating OS X so I haven't done much in the way of testing but ASP tells me all the niceties are support plus I get the dashboard ripple and the cube effect on the intitial welcome screens so I'm assuming it all works. I had to cannibalise RAM from the B&W so I'm stuck with 640MB which will be a bit tight but the faster HDD should help offset that until I can buy more RAM.
. More detail in the
Wait. That was a SINGLE G4 processor upgrade running against a DUAL G5??? Those are some damn respectable scores considering the difference in processing power between the two machines. I don't see how a single 1.5ghz G4 can turn in so much higher Altivec scores than a dual 2.0 G5. Something has to be wrong with the benchmark program there. I think that result should be reversed. There's no way a single 1.5ghz G4 can be 3x faster than a dual 2.0 G5 in anything.
I ran the test again, and the results remained the same (except for my disk scores - the new HDD I put in after the old one crashed scored a 41.9).
Perhaps the test heavily favors a cache, which the G5 only has 512KB of per processor against my 2MB.
Perhaps the test heavily favors a cache, which the G5 only has 512KB of per processor against my 2MB.
Sorry for the late response, but I just realized that my HDD crash allowed me to give an answer. I have a flashed GeForce 6200, which *does* support CI, and was able to boot to my OS 9.1 CD just fine at 1280x1024. I didn't actually install OS 9, so I'm not sure if you'd get any acceleration, but you *can* get the full range of resolutions out of the card, apparently.
This fact is part of the reason why it didn't dawn on me that the card would cause issues booting into 10.4.
I had heard there were some problems with flashed cards because the ROM on a PC card is half the size of the one on a Mac card, so you have to use a truncated ROM image when you flash a PC card which cause bootup issues under the classic Mac OS. I can't recall atm whether there were OS X related issues.
The way the G5 operates, though, it does not need level 3 cache. The PC3200 RAM is fast enough to cover for the lack of level 3, which was why Apple did not include any. It should still run faster than the G4.
most of the issues with the flashed PC to Mac cards was due to having different hardware ID's then the hardware on the original Mac rom ones (due to a different GPU, or different hardware being used) most of the times it as easy as editing the driver files to the proper ID of the card to get it working right in OS 9, and then some will never work due to the hardware on them are nothing close to something that is supported for OS 9.
the same thing can go for OS X but not as bad as OS 9 can be. you want to try to stick as close to the reference design as possible to get the most compatibility from it.
i know that Leopard was having boot issues on a G4 with a Geforce 6x00 and higher due to the temp sensors on the card, they removed the sensor data from the rom which fixed the boot freeze (could last from 2 minute - 6 minute hang) but would eventually boot. they removed the data from the rom and these cards no longer have the issue with Leopard on a G4.
but at what cost, will the GPU fan keep running, will it be set fast enough to keep the card cool. i think you have to manually set the fan speed in the rom ( and it stay's at a constant speed), If set two low and you could cook the card
the same thing can go for OS X but not as bad as OS 9 can be. you want to try to stick as close to the reference design as possible to get the most compatibility from it.
i know that Leopard was having boot issues on a G4 with a Geforce 6x00 and higher due to the temp sensors on the card, they removed the sensor data from the rom which fixed the boot freeze (could last from 2 minute - 6 minute hang) but would eventually boot. they removed the data from the rom and these cards no longer have the issue with Leopard on a G4.
but at what cost, will the GPU fan keep running, will it be set fast enough to keep the card cool. i think you have to manually set the fan speed in the rom ( and it stay's at a constant speed), If set two low and you could cook the card
Hmmm...well I have no idea then. If you look at the stock MDD benchmarks, they're all pretty similar to mine, so it's not something specific with the processor upgrade. Also interesting is that xbench erroneously lists the speed of the L3 cache.
Or replace the 64KB chip with a 128KB one.
Which version of XBench are you using? The baseline scores were re-assessed recently, so comparing scores from different versions gives misleading results.
Peace,
Drew
I have a flashed PC Radeon 9800 Pro in my Digital Audio. I had to use the 64k reduced ROM but after taping over pins 3 and 11 on the AGP connector it booted straight up (OS X 10.4.10 was on the hard drive that was in it at the time but 10.4.6 installed on the new HDD without a hitch). At first I thought there was something wrong because the display was overbright and kind of washed out so I dug up a DVI->VGA converter and tried that. Same thing. Turned out OS X was using some funky calibration for the monitor. Changing the montior cleared it right up, even on VGA. I have Quartz Extreme, Core Image, all the niceties:
http://www.hexellent.com/files/26/GeeFour/9800Pro.jpg
Only real problem is that, with a 733Mhz Quicksilver CPU, it's hopelessly CPU limited. In a very simple test I started a game of WarCraft 3 and ran the /fps command. I got half the FPS on the 9800 Pro in the DA at 1024x768 that I get on my MacBook with a GMA950 at 1280x800 :/
Easier said than done really :/
Would you be willing to attempt OS 9 on that card and tell us what results you get?
I have 9.2.2 on a second hard drive (I don't have a 9.1 or 9.2 CD so I can't install it directly). I might try booting that up and seeing what reults I get.