Thread
a Completely Scatterbrained Thread About the Beige G3/266
Just so everything is up to date.
Yeah.
There was a lawsuit against Apple relating to the video capabilities of the beige g3's in OS X.
From what I remember, when I upgraded to 10.3 I had to get a new video card. This is when I also had to use Xpostfacto, as X.2 Jaguar is supported on the Beige G3. I recall there being an option in Xpostfacto to 'force old nddrivers' or something like that. Basically it was telling Xpostfacto to re-load the old video driver and tell X to use it.
My memory of events could be off. I have been blessed for the last few years in owning machines that do not need to be hacked in order to be OS X compliant.
Okay, so I got it to boot at 292mhz w/ 83mhz bus. I tried 300mhz w/ 66mhz, but I couldn't get the machine to boot...
How do I know if I am running at a safe speed? Is there any way to test for stability? Temperature sensing apps or benchmarking? What do you prefer?
Also, is there a specific type of jumper that I should be using? I just used some spare HD jumpers I had.
I probably should have done benchmarks before I overclocked.
How do I know if I am running at a safe speed? Is there any way to test for stability? Temperature sensing apps or benchmarking? What do you prefer?
Also, is there a specific type of jumper that I should be using? I just used some spare HD jumpers I had.
I probably should have done benchmarks before I overclocked.
One thing to do is to replace the thermal goop between the CPU die and the heatsink. It will almost certainly have dried out. There are guides.
Just because it is booting doesn't necessarily mean it is stable at that speed. You should give it an intense break in like running folding@home for a few days straight without powering down. If it survives that, it should be good for anything else you need. Oh,and some Arctic Silver and an oversized heatsink/cooling fan would be nice, just in case.
Also, it's reporting my vram as 8mb despite everymac saying that this machine's max vram is 6mb. I do not have a video card installed.
I've had it up for about 40 minutes total and installed the new Tiger updates. It seemed to get a little warm then and the HD temp went from 22c to 26c, but I really don't think that's indicative of ambient temperature.
I have some fans around that I can use until I can get some thermal paste. I wonder what the chances are that I can get a quieter / higher airflow fan to replace the PSU fan.
I've had it up for about 40 minutes total and installed the new Tiger updates. It seemed to get a little warm then and the HD temp went from 22c to 26c, but I really don't think that's indicative of ambient temperature.
I have some fans around that I can use until I can get some thermal paste. I wonder what the chances are that I can get a quieter / higher airflow fan to replace the PSU fan.
Will do. I'm still trying to find some kind of temperature monitor though.
As for replacing the fan in the PSU, the is easy.
Open 'er up. Measure the fan and take note of the connection type (or if the wires are soldered on to the PCB). Next thing is to visit your friend google, and get to work.
My BeigeG3 runs stable at 83MHz. It is a Rev A board with a Rev B ROM and a Raytheon VRM for G4's.
Open 'er up. Measure the fan and take note of the connection type (or if the wires are soldered on to the PCB). Next thing is to visit your friend google, and get to work.
My BeigeG3 runs stable at 83MHz. It is a Rev A board with a Rev B ROM and a Raytheon VRM for G4's.
I know how to replace a fan, I just hate shopping for them. :/ You don't happen know what dB the PSU fan runs at, do you?
What difference does the rev. B ROM make?
I have no idea what the db rating of the fans are.
The Rev B ROM allows for the use of slave devices on the IDE chains.
The Rev B ROM allows for the use of slave devices on the IDE chains.
So, I've been thinking. I don't have a whole lot of spare cash right now, but I would really like to upgrade something. I could get a 450mhz G3 for about $10, or I could try and find a video card for this machine. Personally, I kind of want to get a VC first, but I have never added one since most of my machines have onboard graphics capabilities.
I know I need a PCI Radeon Mac edition to enable quartz extreme (I think?), but there seems to be quite a few versions of it..
A less expensive 7000 in 32mb or 64mb flavors, or a 9200 with 128mb... which I haven't found any cheapo deals on yet.
So... hmmm.
What cards are all of you running, and what do you think about them?
Mostly I am concerned about performance in X, since 9 does fine with only the onboard video. Then again, Tomb Raider 2 in 9 looks like butt compared to the PSX version. (is it supposed to, or is it just my limited graphics?)
I guess the overall goal of the project right now is just a general performance increase, a learning experience, and also millions of colors in 10.4, which the onboard video stutters over when enabled.
Planned mods, for personal reference:
- G3 zif, anything with 1mb cache.
- video card, atleast 32mb
- maybe a usb card. probably. that would make sense, if I intend to have this as a backup machine.. but in that case;
- updating the rom might make sense as well, in the case that I ever need to transplant a drive from the G4.
- a controller (for games, yay!) maybe I can find a PS to usb adapter, since we have like... 4 PS controllers here and I like them anyway. I hate trying to play games using thing keyboard.
I know I need a PCI Radeon Mac edition to enable quartz extreme (I think?), but there seems to be quite a few versions of it..
A less expensive 7000 in 32mb or 64mb flavors, or a 9200 with 128mb... which I haven't found any cheapo deals on yet.
So... hmmm.
What cards are all of you running, and what do you think about them?
Mostly I am concerned about performance in X, since 9 does fine with only the onboard video. Then again, Tomb Raider 2 in 9 looks like butt compared to the PSX version. (is it supposed to, or is it just my limited graphics?)
I guess the overall goal of the project right now is just a general performance increase, a learning experience, and also millions of colors in 10.4, which the onboard video stutters over when enabled.
Planned mods, for personal reference:
- G3 zif, anything with 1mb cache.
- video card, atleast 32mb
- maybe a usb card. probably. that would make sense, if I intend to have this as a backup machine.. but in that case;
- updating the rom might make sense as well, in the case that I ever need to transplant a drive from the G4.
- a controller (for games, yay!) maybe I can find a PS to usb adapter, since we have like... 4 PS controllers here and I like them anyway. I hate trying to play games using thing keyboard.
Any Radeon with 32MB of RAM or more can be made to work with the PCI Extreme hack. I would go for a Radeon 7000 Mac Edition with 64MB of VRAM. A 9200 would be nice (I don't know why people rain on them, I have owned 2 and love them) and that 128MB of VRAM for a frame buffer could come in handy, but if I were you I would save my money.
Then I would pick up a G4 CPU if you are planning on running X. The Altivec optimizations coupled with your now enabled QE should be able to provide decent to good performance when in use.
Then next step is more RAM. Max that sucker out. OS X loves RAM. Feed it some and it will make you happy.
I would also recommend a storage controller upgrade. Even a step up to ATA33 or 66 can make a huge difference. Sonnet Tempo ATA/133 cards are best of class IMO and work great with X. Coupled with an older 40 or 60GB AT/133 HD overall system performance is markedly improved. As we all know the HD is the slowest component in any system.
If you are going to upgrade the storage controller, there is no need to upgrade the ROM. The controller chip on the PCI card will take over.
USB is required by Panther I believe, and Tiger wants firewire. Pick up a USB/Firewire PCI card on the cheap from Fry's or e-bay. Then you should be all set for ports.
Then I would pick up a G4 CPU if you are planning on running X. The Altivec optimizations coupled with your now enabled QE should be able to provide decent to good performance when in use.
Then next step is more RAM. Max that sucker out. OS X loves RAM. Feed it some and it will make you happy.
I would also recommend a storage controller upgrade. Even a step up to ATA33 or 66 can make a huge difference. Sonnet Tempo ATA/133 cards are best of class IMO and work great with X. Coupled with an older 40 or 60GB AT/133 HD overall system performance is markedly improved. As we all know the HD is the slowest component in any system.
If you are going to upgrade the storage controller, there is no need to upgrade the ROM. The controller chip on the PCI card will take over.
USB is required by Panther I believe, and Tiger wants firewire. Pick up a USB/Firewire PCI card on the cheap from Fry's or e-bay. Then you should be all set for ports.
Well, so far Tiger hasn't complained about not having USB or firewire. The RAM is already maxed out.
Are there any problems in OS9 with the G4s? Will it interfere with my SCSI stuff? I thought I read something about that somewhere. Maybe that's a 6400 upgrade that I am thinking about though.
I will probably end up with a Radeon 7000. The 9200 is more of an "if I get lucky" kind of thing.
Are there any problems in OS9 with the G4s? Will it interfere with my SCSI stuff? I thought I read something about that somewhere. Maybe that's a 6400 upgrade that I am thinking about though.
I will probably end up with a Radeon 7000. The 9200 is more of an "if I get lucky" kind of thing.
Sorry but I dont. It is not running anymore as I do not use the 266 cpu anymore. Also in the name of truth, the 420 I have was overclocked from a 350 not a 300.
I have run out of the little jumpers. I hope to get more in the next week or so. If I do, I'll try to re-create my oc successes and report back.
JHV
That's okay. I already got to 292mhz with an 83mhz bus and it seems to run fine. On top of that, I bought a 450mhz zif today.
I used this page for reference: http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~t-imai/g3ae1.html
Honestly, I landed on 292 because many of the other settings required having 2 or more jumpers directly next to each other, and the hard drive jumpers I had simply would not fit.
Looking at the settings here, it seems that I will need to buy some mini jumpers to configure it for the 450.
Finally got my ZIF from ic-china.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/aphetica/450copy.jpg?t=1207004815
I didn't really think it would be this easy... I managed to get it jumpered correctly using hard drive jumpers even though the fit was a little tight.
Bus is running @75mhz, btw.
Anyway, it booted fine the first time and things seemed to go a little more smoothly. I timed a few boots, and OS X went from 50 seconds (from power 'till the second the menu bar appeared) to about 46 seconds with the new ZIF. I suspect it may load quicker also if I turn Menushade and the Dock off. Maybe. ?
When I tried booting into OS 9, I got a timebomb with an "address error" and it forced me to accept its demands to restart, but it froze instead. Second restart, another freeze. Booted with extensions off and switched the boot OS back to X.
...not totally sure what that's about yet. I need 9 to be functional.
Also, I noticed there was some kind of thermal pad on the old processor when I took it out. Will the new one do okay with only thermal paste, or do I need that pad? It won't come off of the old processor, and the heatsink sits crooked without it. I'm scared to run it for more than a minute or two without the heatsink mounted properly.
So... hooray for my first processor upgrade!
I guess next is a video card, whenever I can afford that.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h149/aphetica/450copy.jpg?t=1207004815
I didn't really think it would be this easy... I managed to get it jumpered correctly using hard drive jumpers even though the fit was a little tight.
Bus is running @75mhz, btw.
Anyway, it booted fine the first time and things seemed to go a little more smoothly. I timed a few boots, and OS X went from 50 seconds (from power 'till the second the menu bar appeared) to about 46 seconds with the new ZIF. I suspect it may load quicker also if I turn Menushade and the Dock off. Maybe. ?
When I tried booting into OS 9, I got a timebomb with an "address error" and it forced me to accept its demands to restart, but it froze instead. Second restart, another freeze. Booted with extensions off and switched the boot OS back to X.
...not totally sure what that's about yet. I need 9 to be functional.
Also, I noticed there was some kind of thermal pad on the old processor when I took it out. Will the new one do okay with only thermal paste, or do I need that pad? It won't come off of the old processor, and the heatsink sits crooked without it. I'm scared to run it for more than a minute or two without the heatsink mounted properly.
So... hooray for my first processor upgrade!
I guess next is a video card, whenever I can afford that.