Thread
Anybody Got A Portable?
Anybody got a Portable and/or PowerBook 100 up and running they would be willing to do a ROM dump for an emulator analysis? Thanks
I have a portable that I'm in the process of restoring. I'm working on putting in a new hard drive (I have no idea what happened to the original!) but for now I have it booting off a System 7.5 Disk Tools disk.
Once I have the thing up and running with the hard drive, what would I need to do?
Once I have the thing up and running with the hard drive, what would I need to do?
I've got my eye on one on a high shelf some place ....
There's a piece of software you can get here:Once I have the thing up and running with the hard drive, what would I need to do?
http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/extras/copyroms.html
You just run it and produce the file in the same directory as the application. That's it. Thanks!
So I ran the CopyRoms software on my Portable... It started up, created a file called "unknown.ROM" and quit. Upon further investigation, I discovered, however, that the size of the unknown.ROM file was only 4 bytes, hardly enough for a system rom. I was expecting it to be 128K.
I've run it under System 7.1 and System 6.0.8 with the same results each time.
Any thoughts?
Brian
I've run it under System 7.1 and System 6.0.8 with the same results each time.
Any thoughts?
Brian
I also attempted to run the old vMac "CopyRom" rather than the mini vmac "CopyRoms" with similar results -- the application closes as soon as it opens, but yields no file on the disk.
odd. The ROM image should be 256K, whatever it is called.
Try GetRom: http://home.tampabay.rr.com/osemu/n800/software/GetRom.sit.hqx
People seem to be having success with that.
At this point I am looking only for the original non-backlit Portable ROM. Anyone with the original Portable giving this a shot would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Try GetRom: http://home.tampabay.rr.com/osemu/n800/software/GetRom.sit.hqx
People seem to be having success with that.
At this point I am looking only for the original non-backlit Portable ROM. Anyone with the original Portable giving this a shot would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Oh mine is the backlit portable. So you're not interested in that rom then?
Thanks, but no. UNLESS, yours is an upgraded Portable. Then I am very interested. M5120 is the original, M5126 is the stock backlit. My understanding is that the original requires a ROM card via which the upgrade attaches. Is this the case in the stock backlit (5126) as well?Oh mine is the backlit portable. So you're not interested in that rom then?
I am curious, you mention Portable and/or PowerBook 100, then go on to exclude the backlit Portable. Why is the PB100 okay, but not the backlit Portable?
Sadly, my Portable is not only backlit, but currently dead. I do have a working PowerBook 100, if you decide you would like that ROM.
Sadly, my Portable is not only backlit, but currently dead. I do have a working PowerBook 100, if you decide you would like that ROM.
I actually don't know if it's upgraded or not. I don't see a model number anywhere on the device. There's a notice on the bottom indicating that it hasn't yet been approved by the FCC and is not available for sale. (This is different than the common models that say that it's a demo unit and not available for sale.)
Brian
Brian
Thanks, but no. UNLESS, yours is an upgraded Portable. Then I am very interested. M5120 is the original, M5126 is the stock backlit. My understanding is that the original requires a ROM card via which the upgrade attaches. Is this the case in the stock backlit (5126) as well?Oh mine is the backlit portable. So you're not interested in that rom then?
Sorry, since I started this thread I have acquired both the 100 and backlit Portable ROMs. Now all that's missing is the original non-backlit Portable – and for good measure, the original Portable that has been upgraded (which should be the same ROM).I am curious, you mention Portable and/or PowerBook 100, then go on to exclude the backlit Portable. Why is the PB100 okay, but not the backlit Portable?
The idea is to compare all three: Portable 1, Portable BL, PowerBook 100. Apple says the PB 100 ROM is identical to the Portable's, indeed requiring a special CPU GLU logic chip ID register in the 100 to differentiate the two during software installs. However, the PB 100 is capable of SCSI disk mode which Apple says is built into the ROM. I find it unlikely that the original Portable ROM had that much forward thinking built-into it 1989 (especially since the Portable didn't offer it). Also, the original Portable could support a maximum 9MB RAM. The PowerBook 100 and Backlit Portable both share an 8MB limitation. The Backlit Portable was also introduced the same year as the 100, all of which suggests that they share a revised ROM and this is the identical ROM to which Apple refers. If true, then the BL Portable is likely capable of SCSI disk, depending on what else is involved. I expect to find the BL Portable & 100 identical and the original Portable to be different, namely no SCSI disk mode code (Apple also indicates something about video addressing refresh). I am curious about the upgraded Portable though. It required the backlit LCD to be plugged into a special card which occupied the ROM expansion slot. Presumably this provided the extra RAM decoding necessary for the backlight state monitoring, while allowing the original Portable to retain 9MB RAM maximum, or it simply patched the original ROM with the new 8MB ceiling reserving 1MB for the backlight state. Apple's Developer Notes indicate that this ROM card actually contains a revised ROM that replaces the original onboard ROM. I would be curious to see how GetRom would see this patched ROM. Further, since expansion to 9MB was only achievable through third party 8MB RAM cards utilizing the PDS slot, this ROM card may well limit a Portable upgraded with a backlight display to 2MB RAM only accommodated by Apple's 1MB max. RAM expansion slot (which was incompatible with RAM inserted via the PDS slot in any event), or the revised ROM may have allowed it use the 3MB version offered with backlit motherboard (though that was a completely different kind of incompatible RAM with a different connector, unless they made it for both types). It's all very odd really. For instance, I understand the PDS RAM cards were compatible with both models. But if you put the 8MB card in the backlit, did it just ignore the extra MB? And used with the original, upgraded to backlit, did it lose that top MB as well? I also found reference to the fact that the backlight upgrade was offered after the debut of the Portable and abruptly discontinued prior to the 100 intro. It was like a $1500 option. Clearly it was not a very profitable item for Apple which had more economically re-engineered the logicboard to accept the backlit display readily, leaving the RAM, ROM & PDS slots free for future expansion.
Ah. Mine must be the actual backlit model then, because I have nothing in my ROM slot, and the screen and backlight share a single cable that plugs in directly to the mainboard.
Here's an interesting observation: The Portable was the last of the original Snow White design projects at Apple started by Frogdesign. Now, every Snow White product I have ever seen from the Apple //c through to the Mac II and external drives have those damn dust-collecting lines all the way around them, included the bottom of these devices which sit on a desktop never to see the light of day. EXCEPT the Portable! The only Snow White product which is intended to be set upright on it's rear like a briefcase and it has a completely flat bottom, with no detailing whatsoever. Go figure!
Here are the results. The backlit ROM has a different checksum than the PowerBook 100 as well as some startup code differences. Which is surprising since Apple says they are identical to the point where:I actually don't know if it's upgraded or not. I don't see a model number anywhere on the device. There's a notice on the bottom indicating that it hasn't yet been approved by the FCC and is not available for sale. (This is different than the common models that say that it's a demo unit and not available for sale.)
It is possible that your backlit contains a pre-release ROM prototype. In which case it might also be the ROM replacement on the ROM card for the backlit display upgrade and different from the 5126. That is the reason I want to see the ROM from that as well as the production backlit.In addition, the CPU GLU Logic chip includes an ID registercontaining a unique ID that allows system software to determine that
it is running on a Macintosh PowerBook 100 and not a Macintosh
Portable. This is necessary because both the Macintosh PowerBook
100 and the Macintosh Portable have identical system ROMs.
One other note of mention is that this backlit ROM is identical in the SCSI implementation with the 100, which means the Portable can do SCSI disk mode. I then found an Apple tech note confirming that a third party cable product made that possible:
https://developer.apple.com/technotes/hw/hw_540.html
Connecting two Macintosh systems via SCSI
Date Written: 12/12/90
Last reviewed: 7/26/91
However it is not clear whether it refers to all Portables or just the backlit models, but the dates seem to suggest only the backlit which shares a similar ROM to the 100.
Only analysis of the original 5120 Portable ROM will confirm this - HINT HINT
You refer to 'your ROM' but I was never able to successfully extract my ROM for you.
To whose ROM do you refer?
Brian
To whose ROM do you refer?
Brian
Here are the results. Your ROM has a different checksum than the PowerBook 100 as well as some startup code differences. Which is surprising since Apple says they are identical to the point the 100 has to have a special ID bit in a VIA chip to differentiate it for software installation.I actually don't know if it's upgraded or not. I don't see a model number anywhere on the device. There's a notice on the bottom indicating that it hasn't yet been approved by the FCC and is not available for sale. (This is different than the common models that say that it's a demo unit and not available for sale.)
It is possible that your backlit is a pre-release ROM prototype. In which case it might also be the ROM replacement on the ROM card for the backlit display upgrade. That is the reason I want to see the ROM from that as well as the production backit.
One other note of mention is that your ROM is identical in the SCSI implementation with the 100, which means the Portable can do SCSI disk mode. I then found an Apple tech note confirming that a third party cable product made that possible. however it is not clear whether it refers to all Portables or just the backlit models. Only analysis of the original Pprtable ROM will confirm this - HINT HINT
Sorry got my wires crossed. It wasn't yours, tired and too many different projects going on at the same time. I will need to go back and edit my threads to correct my observations based on the correct Portable, but I meant I wanted to see your prototype Portables ROM.You refer to 'your ROM' but I was never able to successfully extract my ROM for you.
Actually Copy roms will create a file with just the checksum of the rom if it doesnt recognize the model of the macintosh. Can you tell me what the checksum was? The code would have to be modified to recognize the rom and dump it. I would like to see the rom extracted and could probably do the mods to the dump program.So I ran the CopyRoms software on my Portable... It started up, created a file called "unknown.ROM" and quit. Upon further investigation, I discovered, however, that the size of the unknown.ROM file was only 4 bytes, hardly enough for a system rom. I was expecting it to be 128K.
I've run it under System 7.1 and System 6.0.8 with the same results each time.
Any thoughts?
Brian
F-
I don't have a portable... I have a Powerbook 180 running System 7.1 though.I have a portable that I'm in the process of restoring. I'm working on putting in a new hard drive (I have no idea what happened to the original!) but for now I have it booting off a System 7.5 Disk Tools disk.
Once I have the thing up and running with the hard drive, what would I need to do?
So can the Portable (5120 or 5125) use SCSI Disk mode or not? According to this Wiki entry it can "through a 3rd party kit." Sadly, they offer no details about such a kit. But this article mentions the so-called "kit" a "utility from Traveling Software" (Laplink?). But again, that's all the detail that is given.
Yes. I added that Wiki entry, one of the few with a citation! If you followed the link to the reference, it would have sent you to this Apple Developer Note, not only supporting the claim, but providing more detailed information.So can the Portable (5120 or 5125) use SCSI Disk mode or not? According to this Wiki entry it can "through a 3rd party kit." Sadly, they offer no details about such a kit.
SCSI Disk Mode was conceived by the Outbound developers. The implementation differed from Apple's, but it was the same idea. At about the time the Portable was launched, Outbound had settled with Apple for a legal supply of ROMs (yes, that made them a clone manufacturer) in an intellectual property swap.
A small French company offered a SCSI disk modification around 1990 for non-disk mode Macs. The information is around here somewhere...
A small French company offered a SCSI disk modification around 1990 for non-disk mode Macs. The information is around here somewhere...
Thanks, Mac128. The relevant section on the ADC note you link to above states:
LapLink Macintosh III from Traveling Software. It works only on the Macintosh Portable since the SCSI ID of the Macintosh Portable can be changed from 7 to 6, avoiding the ID conflicts. Traveling Software also provides a special SCSI-SCSI cable, which is required for this connection. (This setup cannot connect two desktop Macintosh systems unless the drive ID can be changed. This is not possible with Apple's internal drives but you may be able to do it with other internals. In any case, this is unsupported, so if you attempt this you do so at your own risk. You probably will void your warranty.)
LapLink Macintosh III
Traveling Software, Inc.
18702 North Creek Parkwaybr
Bothell, WA 98011
206-483-8088
I'm a bit off topic, but it's possible to "do" SCSI disk mode on just about any 68k Mac.
Take the hard drive out and change the SCSI ID to something other than ID 0 (some drives can do this in software).
Connect the two Macs with a 25 pin to 25 pin SCSI cable. Turn on the "disk mode" Mac and press the "programmers" interrupt button while the RAM test is running (you'll see the gray checkerboard pattern on screen). The Mac will crash with a "sad Mac" error on screen (if it's a Mac LC, this will be accompanied by a loud sound of screeching tyres and a car crash! Nice easter egg there). At this point, the "external disk" Mac has not yet initialised its SCSI controller, so it is not using SCSI ID 7 and you've changed the SCSI ID of its internal HD, so there are no SCSI ID conflicts.
Boot the second Mac... and voila, it has an external hard drive. I used this technique on many, many 68k Macs over a period of years to move data when customers upgraded to a new Mac. It's *much* faster than using the LocalTalk network, or backing up data to an external drive, then restoring to the new computer.
Take the hard drive out and change the SCSI ID to something other than ID 0 (some drives can do this in software).
Connect the two Macs with a 25 pin to 25 pin SCSI cable. Turn on the "disk mode" Mac and press the "programmers" interrupt button while the RAM test is running (you'll see the gray checkerboard pattern on screen). The Mac will crash with a "sad Mac" error on screen (if it's a Mac LC, this will be accompanied by a loud sound of screeching tyres and a car crash! Nice easter egg there). At this point, the "external disk" Mac has not yet initialised its SCSI controller, so it is not using SCSI ID 7 and you've changed the SCSI ID of its internal HD, so there are no SCSI ID conflicts.
Boot the second Mac... and voila, it has an external hard drive. I used this technique on many, many 68k Macs over a period of years to move data when customers upgraded to a new Mac. It's *much* faster than using the LocalTalk network, or backing up data to an external drive, then restoring to the new computer.
That's a very cool trick/hack, but if you have to remove the internal hard disk to change the SCSI ID, wouldn't it have been easier to temporarily transplant into an external case?
By the time you take the drive out of the Mac (unscrew from carrier etc), dismantle external case... put drive in case, assemble case... do the file copy... reverse all of the above... no. Usually quicker to do in the Mac. Particularly with LCs (volume selling machines in the day), you could usually just unclip the hard drive, swing it up with cables still connected and access the SCSI ID jumpers without unbolting the drive from its carrier.
Host: the controller Mac, the one running Mac OS, the one that needs its SCSI ID changing.That's a very cool trick/hack, but if you have to remove the internal hard disk to change the SCSI ID, wouldn't it have been easier to temporarily transplant into an external case?
Guest: Mac with the content that needs to be recovered, interrupted boot cycle, not running Mac OS, no need to change SCSI ID.
Ok... sorry for bumping this post, but I haven't gotten any success w/ finding a PB100 ROM in my thread in the Software section, so...
Anyone got a Portable or PB100 ROM that they could send me?
Anyone got a Portable or PB100 ROM that they could send me?
You might want to message the original poster...
I did. Apperently the disk it was on died or something.You might want to message the original poster...