Thread

G4 533MHz ZIF - $20

G4 533MHz ZIF - $20 Troubleshooting 84 posts Mar 19, 2008 — May 14, 2008

#31 Sat, 22 Mar 2008 - 04:33

... do I need to change my jumpers to use this? (450mhz G3 into a 266mhz beige G3) ...

Not if ...

... Look for the Sonnet realizations of G4 ZIF cards for the greatest stability/versatility.

No jumper-fiddling is needed, but the Sonnet Encore extension is, and it pays to look after your RAM, ROM, VRAM and AV to keep up with the processor upgrade.

de

#32 Sat, 22 Mar 2008 - 07:47

They still make Amigas. They use 933mhz G4's now.

I know, I know.

A good friend of mine uses an Amiga 4000 with an '060 in it. It's his main machine and has been forever. He started on Commodore, then got an A500, an A1200 and finally the 4000 he has now.

I've been begging him to get a new Amiga so he can run more modern stuff. Having a G4 would allow him to run the MacOS emulator. Then he can have access to more modern browsers (Voyager sucks butt), more modern text editors and so on. He would also have ethernet. Ethernet would of course allow for DSL or Cable interweb access. He's on 56K right now. He would also have USB. USB and a MacOS emulator will allow him to utilize much more modern hardware and maybe even flash drives and whatnot.

He could do that now. I have one of those Zorro slot 604 CPU cards. He doesn't want to install it because he says the extensions for PPC support in OS 4 slow down the system or something. I think he's on crack, but it's his box.

What really sucks is that they aren't making any boards right now. Heck if I could get my hands on one of those G3 Amiga boards, I might have a new box and OS to tinker with. That could be loads of fun.

#33 Sun, 23 Mar 2008 - 00:23

The AmigaONE XE-G4s were a complete waste of a good G4 CPU. They should have kept the cost down and stuck with G3/800s.

#34 Sun, 23 Mar 2008 - 00:47

I know, I know.
A goof friend of mine uses an Amiga 4000 with an '060 in it. It's his main machine and has been forever. He started on Commodore, then got an A500, an A1200 and finally the 4000 he has now.

I've been begging him to get a new Amiga so he can run more modern stuff. Having a G4 would allow him to run the MacOS emulator. Then he can have access to more modern browsers (Voyager sucks butt), more modern text editors and so on. He would also have ethernet. Ethernet would of course allow for DSL or Cable interweb access. He's on 56K right now. He would also have USB. USB and a MacOS emulator will allow him to utilize much more modern hardware and maybe even flash drives and whatnot.

My Amiga 4000 060 has ethernet and USB. Give the guy a break

In all honesty it would be a vastly greater saving of money, effort and screwing around to buy him a G4 Mac. They cost next to nothing these days and he wouldn't need anything fancy, just a G4/450 with 10.3.

It's odd you should mention it really I have a friend (actually he's the Chairman of the Amiga UG I'm the secretary of

) who's exactly the same. His main machine is a towered 4000/060 with a Mediator PCI bus board in it and a 36GB SCSI disk. We *gave* him a Mac OS X machine and he still doesn't use it, the trouble is he's getting on a bit and he has problems with fatigue and bad memory so learning OS X is not something he feels he can cope with.

He could do that now. I have one of those Zorro slot 604 CPU cards. He doesn't want to install it because he says the extensions for PPC support in OS 4 slow down the system or something. I think he's on crack, but it's his box.

He's right about the PPC Support slowing the machine down, but I think he means in OS 3.x

Frankly, unless you want to run OS 4 Classic, having an Amiga PPC card is a waste of time. It accelerates a small number of apps, and some PPC apps are slower than the 060 versions!

I haven't used OS 4 Classic on a 4000 yet (a friend of mine has a 4000/PPC and OS 4 Classic but we haven't got the two to gel yet

) but if it's half as fast as it is on a G3 then it'll knock his socks off

What really sucks is that they aren't making any boards right now. Heck if I could get my hands on one of those G3 Amiga boards, I might have a new box and OS to tinker with. That could be loads of fun.

I've played with OS 4 on a AmigaONE, I had a A1-XE G4/800 as a loner from *another* Amiga Group committee member (the Vice Chairman) and ultimately it left me wanting something more. Here I was using a computer that out-spec'd my iMac G4 and the OS felt like it was made in the stone age. It's fast as hell but ultimately so out of date it's hardly worth it. It has zero benefit over running 3.9 on a REAL Amiga.

A great number of decisions were made incorrectly with the AmigaONE, and OS 4 was chronically understaffed and received very little financial backing. There are projects underway to bring modern software to OS 4 but it's only available sporadically (either with a A1 board, or for Classic Amiga PPC) and has very few developers. Porting something like Firefox could take half a decade at the rate it's going... by which time it's already totally obsolete.

As a viable proposition for anything, Amiga has been dead since about 2004. It still carries on in the hearts and minds of enthusiasts young and old, but we are not enough to shout about or get any viable business model together. It's not helped by the fact Amiga Inc. are squandering and wasteful of the IP, and are financially incompetent, liars and also corrupt and have gone bust at least 2x.

Ahh the World of Amiga - it's so full of joy

Chalk this up as thread number 2 taken over my my rambling about he sorry state of Amiga...

#35 Sun, 23 Mar 2008 - 18:45

So does this seller not send out emails to confirm that the item has been shipped? Or do they wait a long time before shipping?

I haven't gotten any response from them since I won and paid for the item.

#36 Mon, 24 Mar 2008 - 08:44

I received notification about five minutes ago that my parcel was mailed yesterday.

#37 Mon, 24 Mar 2008 - 21:43

Yeah I finally got mine too. I was getting worried that I wouldn't receive it because my roommate got me temporarily suspended by using my account to bid up her own items.

#38 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 - 00:13

i didnt get one up to now... but we´ll see...

#39 Tue, 25 Mar 2008 - 12:07

Mine arrived at about the same time as Bunsen's. In 15 sales, ic-china has never failed to advise me about posting of an item, so you should be safe, even if further away from China.

de

#40 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 - 03:13

okay, dumb question time again-

If it says it will arrive via "register airmail", does that mean I should check my PO box, or wait for UPS/FedEx/DHL to come to my door?

#41 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 - 03:46

The last thing I got from him came with the regular mail. If you have any stamp collectors in the family, save the package as he usually plasters it with all sorts of stamps.

#42 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 - 06:32

Oh yeah. Some of those Chinese stamps are beautiful. My girlfriend has commandeered the last few packages from him

#43 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 - 08:17

I got some stuff from ELBOX Computer (Amiga hardware add-on makers) in Poland once and it was tied with string and had a lead seal stamped over the join in the middle. It was rather quaint in it's 'old skool' kinda way [

] ]'>

#44 Wed, 26 Mar 2008 - 09:39

okay, dumb question time again-If it says it will arrive via "register airmail", does that mean I should check my PO box, or wait for UPS/FedEx/DHL to come to my door?

'Registered post' means different things in different countries. For me it means that a card arrives in my letter box telling me that something 'registered' (ie, listed and tracked with a number beginning with 'R', and automatically insured) awaits me at the local PO, to which I then have to haul myself and sign for the article. It may be completely different where you are.

de

#45 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 13:11

ZIF arrived yesterday. Packed safely and matches the listing precisely.

One little surprise - in the corner it has a trim dial with numbers around it, presumably something to do with speed setting. So it must be a 3rd party upgrade.

/edit/ All hail Google image search. It looks precisely like this (Warning: large image)

And it's actually a 550MHz part - the markings on the sticker are:

PFG4/Z550/220/1M

Z405020191

And the chip die itself indicates a 7410 G4

Going on the hunch that PF=PowerForce by PowerLogix, it seems we have a positive match.

The lower-octane PPC7410 is employed in the PowerForce, in order to reduce heat and power consumption. The 7410 will run at 533MHz on the Beige's 66MHz bus, while the 100MHz B&Ws let the CPU run to 550MHz.
"The card scores very favorably against models like the PowerMac G4-733 / " said Robin Howdershelt, Marketing Director for PowerLogix. "/ hits 1581 on the MacBench CPU scores and blows the doors off the 733MHz Apple machine with an FPU score of 1520 (vs. 1424 on the 733)."

#46 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 13:56

I'd have said so, dialy things for speed are not anything I've seen on XLR8 or Sonnet ZIFs...

He does sell 3rd party upgrade parts, the G3/500 I bought was a Sonnet labelled unit.

To report, the G4/400 didn't work on my XLR8 ZIF carrier. It powers on but I get no chime. Now it *might* be an issue with the RAM in the machine, apparently G4s are fairly unforgiving at best apparently. But alas as it's an 8550 I'm not getting into stripping out the RAM and all that jazz.

I put the G3/500 in instead, which has picked it's skirts up more than somewhat (as you'd expect for doubling the CPU clock speed). Still got nothing to use if for but hey.

#47 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 16:19

I can't find diddly squat in the way of user manuals or tech support for that particular model. All I really want to know is what to do with the adjustment dial. The only markings on it are the numbers 0 through F around the screw.

/edit/ So far I've found this:

set at 6 and it booted up at 550 Mhz, when i set it at 7 it did not boot, and when i set it at 5 it booted at 650./Ive got a copper bottom, hand lapped pentium heatsink with a fan on it. Got the G4 CPU in it running cool now at 650Mhz. Made my own chart.

See ya.

and this:

For B/W G3: 6=550, 2=500for Beige G3: 7=500, C=533

#48 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 16:58

And this

Code:

Dial  Beige  B&amp;W  Binary

 0                ----
 1                ---|
 2          500   --|-
 3                --||
 4                -|--
 5          650   -|-|
 6          550   -||-
 7    500         -|||
 8                |---
 9                |--|
 A                |-|-
 B                |-||
 C    533         ||--
 D                ||-|
 E                |||-
 F                ||||

I'll update this as I find more info.

#49 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 17:34

ic-china's offerings have included many Sonnet ZIF daughtercards, both G3 and G4 at '500MHz'. The CPUs have generally matched the '500' in their on-chip manufacturer's numbers. I have G4/500s in a Beige DT and MT, the chief advantage there being no necessity for jumper-twiddling on the MLB. The second advantage is that the machines fly in OS 9.2.2. The G4 ZIF card that I bought out of the offering that prompted this thread was listed by ic-china as a 400MHz, which the Motorola marking confirms, but it is on a Sonnet-made card with labels claiming 500MHz as well as the the 1MB cache. I haven't yet installed it into anything, but I shall be interested to see what speeds it settles on in 50MHz and 66MHz bus systems.

de

#50 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 21:23

I got my G3/450 yesterday too and installed it in my beige G3 and it runs well. I have the bus at 75mhz. Boot times in X dropped 5 seconds, but booting to OS9 gives timebomb errors and hangs, but it'll boot to 9 okay with extensions off.

I think I might OC it to 466, just because. I need a better thermal transfer setup though. It gets kind of hot... My old G3 chip had some kind of thermal transfer "pad" ontop of the processor, but the new one does not... is there somewhere I can buy a new one? I can't get the old one off. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

#51 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 21:44

You're better off using thermal paste than a transfer pad. Arctic Silver is the supposed best, but there are others. You only need a tiny smear of it on the CPU.

#52 Tue, 1 Apr 2008 - 22:22

The heatsink just seems kind of wobbly without the pad. :/

#53 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 00:26

I suppose you could get it off with a single-edged razor blade if you were very very careful not to damage the old CPU. A new box cutter blade might do as well. Your risk, it's only a suggestion.

#54 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 00:30

Here's my reply from OWC tech support re the Powerforce:

I am sorry but that is a discontinued product produced by an earlier Powerlogix group. The settings are not available any longer.

#55 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 04:36

a trim dial with numbers around it, presumably something to do with speed setting. / It looks precisely like this (Warning: large image)

I have a 500MHz G4 that is just like that. I just kept turning the dial until the system profiler reported a speed of 500MHz. It's running in my 8500 with a ZIF Carrier card. Took me about 6 reboots before I got it, but its working, is stable and is very fast.

#56 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 07:42

You're better off using thermal paste than a transfer pad. Arctic Silver is the supposed best, but there are others. You only need a tiny smear of it on the CPU.

Thermal paste is always, both notionally and in practice, better than thermal pads. The function of the paste is to displace the air in the minute crevices, craters and valleys of the machined metal surfaces of CPU and heatsink, and to provide 20+ times better heat conductivity than air can. Even water can do a good job, but heated water doesn't hang about for as long as good-quality thermal paste. Thermal pads, not being metallic throughout, and much thicker than a smear of paste, sacrifice conductivity for plug'n'play convenience.

Take special note of Bunsen's 'tiny smear'. You are just filling invisibly small spaces that are much less deep than a smear is thick. More is decidedly not better than less in this context.

de

de

#57 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 13:44

How To Correctly Apply Thermal Grease

#58 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 17:06

It's not that I have an issue with applying thermal paste.

I've just never seen one of those pad things before and the heatsink wobbles without it. I tried putting a little bit of extra bend in the clamp so it would hold it more firmly, but it still seems to be pushing down in the wrong spot... It holds the heatsink at a slight angle at the contact point of the processor.

Any suggestions?

#59 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 17:34

A few—very few up to G4, in my experience, and those are usually third-party daughtercards—came with a stabilizing hollow square of compressible material to fit the perimeter of the CPU. The spring-tensioned heatsink rested on the central 'land' of the processor—between which and the heatsink the heatsink compound was applied—while the heatsink was prevented from wobbling by the hollow square of compressible material. If time and use have caused the heatsink not to perch on the CPU's land in a stable manner, with a little care and ingenuity you could fashion something suitable.

de

#60 Wed, 2 Apr 2008 - 18:04

Get a new heatsink. Socket A types seem to work well, or you could take yours with you to match the shape.