Thread
Hello everyone, hoping you can help with my disk dilemma!
Hello All,
Great site! I signed up to this forum about a week ago, and I've spent some time going through the previous posts. Although there is a wealth of information here, I couldn't find the solution to my current problem.
I have cleaned and lubricated the floppy drive in my Mac Plus, but I still can't get it to work. I followed the lubrication recommendations in this sites wiki, but still no luck. I did take apart the motor and can confirm that all four gears are fine.
When I insert a disk after the "disk question mark prompt", the question mark goes away. Soon after, an x appears. During this time, I can hear 3 short whirring sounds coming from the disk drive. The disk will not eject, so this process continues until I turn the computer off or eject the disk manually.
Does anyone know how I can fix this?
Thanks!!!
Ron
Great site! I signed up to this forum about a week ago, and I've spent some time going through the previous posts. Although there is a wealth of information here, I couldn't find the solution to my current problem.
I have cleaned and lubricated the floppy drive in my Mac Plus, but I still can't get it to work. I followed the lubrication recommendations in this sites wiki, but still no luck. I did take apart the motor and can confirm that all four gears are fine.
When I insert a disk after the "disk question mark prompt", the question mark goes away. Soon after, an x appears. During this time, I can hear 3 short whirring sounds coming from the disk drive. The disk will not eject, so this process continues until I turn the computer off or eject the disk manually.
Does anyone know how I can fix this?
Thanks!!!
Ron
if it shows the "X" that means it is reading the disc, but you cannot boot from it. You need to find a boot disk that works I believe. As far as it not ejecting, I am not sure about that.
Could also indicate a disk read error or just about anything. The X icon basically means the bootstrap couldn't find anything it could use on the disk.
There's still something mechanically wrong with your drive. Either the eject mechanism is sticking or out of adjustment.
Thank you both for your help!
What could be out of adjustment that would prevent my floppy from ejecting? I read Mike the Kraken's "Diskette drive in a Plus doesn't even attempt to eject" post from May 2014 (sorry, can't paste the link on this Surface) and it seemed that the motor that drives the smallest gear needs to be able to rotate, and if it doesn't that means it seized? Is that right?
Is the spinning noise the sound of a disk rotating? Shouldn't it have given me a screen message asking if I wanted to format it, or is that only possible after system software is loaded?
Sorry, sometimes I get more confused before I get un-confused!!!
What could be out of adjustment that would prevent my floppy from ejecting? I read Mike the Kraken's "Diskette drive in a Plus doesn't even attempt to eject" post from May 2014 (sorry, can't paste the link on this Surface) and it seemed that the motor that drives the smallest gear needs to be able to rotate, and if it doesn't that means it seized? Is that right?
Is the spinning noise the sound of a disk rotating? Shouldn't it have given me a screen message asking if I wanted to format it, or is that only possible after system software is loaded?
Sorry, sometimes I get more confused before I get un-confused!!!
Can you eject it with a paper-clip?
I could be wrong (and I can't find that documentation now) but I was under the impression that those three-whirring sounds were actually a debugging mechanism. I might be thinking of the miniscribe.
I could be wrong (and I can't find that documentation now) but I was under the impression that those three-whirring sounds were actually a debugging mechanism. I might be thinking of the miniscribe.
Yes, ejects fairly easily. Those whirring sounds are coming from the floppy drive (no hd installed).
I had the same problem, for me it was the Finder System files were corrupt, once I replaced them it booted fine. Just like previous posts said, disk reads fine but its easier missing the System and Finder files or they are corrupted. Just replace them from another floppy
Okay, I can try that. however, I never hear the sound of a disk being read. Is this what initially happened to you?
I had a floppy drive that wouldn't eject. I got it working cleaning it with isopropyl alcohol, then added some fresh grease following this guide:
https://wiki.68kmla.org/index.php/Floppy_Drive_Lubrication
https://wiki.68kmla.org/index.php/Floppy_Drive_Lubrication
you can hold your mouse button down at boot up and it should also eject.
the other idea i would like to toss into the pot is, could be a bad bourns filter.
the other idea i would like to toss into the pot is, could be a bad bourns filter.
Yes, that was the lubrication guide I had followed... 
...and it could easily be those filters, but I'll try everything else I can first.
Easy to check the bourns with a DMM?
...and it could easily be those filters, but I'll try everything else I can first.
Easy to check the bourns with a DMM?
i would try to bifurcate the debugging process.
I) Does the drive read?
a) I haven't had a plus in a long time but it only had a single sided drive, right? So are you using a 400k disk (I'm not sure if it'll read an 800k disk, I'd assume it will - but not a 2HD disk).
b ) Are you sure there's valid system software on the disk?
II) If the answer is I) No, a) Yes, b ) Yes, then I'd default on Uniserver or someone more knowledgeable with the hardware.
Do you have another Mac you could test the drive on (one that has I guess a 400k controller; I don't know if the 400 and 800k controllers are compatible); or do you have another 400k drive to try with this machine?
I) Does the drive read?
a) I haven't had a plus in a long time but it only had a single sided drive, right? So are you using a 400k disk (I'm not sure if it'll read an 800k disk, I'd assume it will - but not a 2HD disk).
b ) Are you sure there's valid system software on the disk?
II) If the answer is I) No, a) Yes, b ) Yes, then I'd default on Uniserver or someone more knowledgeable with the hardware.
Do you have another Mac you could test the drive on (one that has I guess a 400k controller; I don't know if the 400 and 800k controllers are compatible); or do you have another 400k drive to try with this machine?
I'm pretty sure the Plus came with an 800k floppy, as its identical to the 800k internal floppy drive in my SE.
Here's an update:
My Mac Plus boots fine with the floppy emu (no surprise here)
I found an old Symantec emergency disk, and the Mac Plus boots fine with this disk when attached using an external 800k floppy drive.
The Mac Plus behaves as previously described when using the Symantec disk in its internal drive (whirring sounds, non ejecting).
Holding the mouse button down while booting has no effect.
I also attached the troublesome internal 800k drive from my SE, and it just hums (makes no other movement or sounds).
Does this point to a bourns filter problem on both internal drives? Any way to confirm with a DMM?
THANKS!
Here's an update:
My Mac Plus boots fine with the floppy emu (no surprise here)
I found an old Symantec emergency disk, and the Mac Plus boots fine with this disk when attached using an external 800k floppy drive.
The Mac Plus behaves as previously described when using the Symantec disk in its internal drive (whirring sounds, non ejecting).
Holding the mouse button down while booting has no effect.
I also attached the troublesome internal 800k drive from my SE, and it just hums (makes no other movement or sounds).
Does this point to a bourns filter problem on both internal drives? Any way to confirm with a DMM?
THANKS!
The stuff I read said the internal is 400k but the Plus is compatible with 800k externals. The only disk I still have from my Plus is a 400k single density disk.
Thanks for your reply raoulduke, I would love to read your source confirming the Plus came with a 400k drive (it sure doesn't look like the 400k drive in my 512K. Please send me the link.
You're right; sorry. I guess perhaps the second side of my disk failed at some point.
Great! Now that we have established that all floppy drives involved were 800K, does anyone have any suggestions on how I should proceed. Believe me, I'm open!
I'm assuming you don't have an unambiguously working 800k internal drive to swap in? And you don't have a board that unambiguously works with a working 800k drive you could swap the Plus drive into?
Correct, only drives I currently have are these 2 800K drives (and a working external 800K drive), with no other boards to plug into.
I think others will tell you DANGER! but in theory you can swap in a 1.44mb drive briefly for emergency diagnostic reasons. In theory there's a controller incompatibility - I think. Someone else will do a great job tearing me apart for this suggestion, that will probably contain more detailed technical info.
When I first tested my SE/30 box (the logic board is in indefinite triage), I put my (800k) SE board into the case and connected the floppy. I only used an 800k disk but it read correctly and ejected when I shut down. If you're out of options and/or want to try, that may be an option if you have an unambiguously working 1.44mb drive. I'm not sure if your symptoms could be the result of a controller problem (on the board itself).
When I first tested my SE/30 box (the logic board is in indefinite triage), I put my (800k) SE board into the case and connected the floppy. I only used an 800k disk but it read correctly and ejected when I shut down. If you're out of options and/or want to try, that may be an option if you have an unambiguously working 1.44mb drive. I'm not sure if your symptoms could be the result of a controller problem (on the board itself).
I currently do not have a 1.44 drive...
Well that limits the danger...
Since the Floppy Emu works, as well as the external 800K drive, I don't think there's a problem with the Bourns filter.
If I'm understanding correctly, you have one internal floppy mechanism that can't read nor eject disks, but other external disks work OK? Have you tried taking the floppy drive mechanism out of your external 800K drive, and putting it inside your Mac as a new internal drive?
If I'm understanding correctly, you have one internal floppy mechanism that can't read nor eject disks, but other external disks work OK? Have you tried taking the floppy drive mechanism out of your external 800K drive, and putting it inside your Mac as a new internal drive?
I'm sure I could try that, but then I'd be left with two dead 800K drives (the ones from my Plus and SE). I currently have no other drives to work with (aside from my external 800K drive).
Since my original questions were on how to diagnose and repair the drives, this is still my goal.
Both drives have been cleaned and lubed per this site's wiki, and all 4 gears in each of the drives are unbroken. The disk that boots fine in the external drive (Symantec emergency disk) does not work in my other drives. In the Plus' drive, I hear a repeated series of three quiet whirring sounds. In the SE's drive, all I hear is a humming noise. The disk had to be manually ejected from both drives.
Is it possible I have installed the eject motor incorrectly? Should I have tried to move the metal cog on the eject motor (the one that drives the smallest gear) to confirm that it hasn't seized?
I'm missing something, I just don't know what it is...
Thanks!
Since my original questions were on how to diagnose and repair the drives, this is still my goal.
Both drives have been cleaned and lubed per this site's wiki, and all 4 gears in each of the drives are unbroken. The disk that boots fine in the external drive (Symantec emergency disk) does not work in my other drives. In the Plus' drive, I hear a repeated series of three quiet whirring sounds. In the SE's drive, all I hear is a humming noise. The disk had to be manually ejected from both drives.
Is it possible I have installed the eject motor incorrectly? Should I have tried to move the metal cog on the eject motor (the one that drives the smallest gear) to confirm that it hasn't seized?
I'm missing something, I just don't know what it is...
Thanks!
Did both drives have the same problems before you serviced the eject mechanism and lubricated everything? Is it possible you reassembled them incorrectly somehow?
You might try operating one of the problem drives externally, but not in a drive enclosure. Just a bare drive mechanism sitting on a table. Then you can visually see what's happening when you insert a floppy, and when the Mac tries to read it. Does the mechanism pull the floppy shutter open when you insert the disk? Does the disk actually spin? Can you see the head moving? Try the same experiment with your good drive, so you can have a visual reference for what it's supposed to look like.
If the drive is already non-functional, I wouldn't be shy about getting in there with whatever tools seem necessary and pushing or bending anything that appears stuck. The worst that can happen is it still won't work.
You might try operating one of the problem drives externally, but not in a drive enclosure. Just a bare drive mechanism sitting on a table. Then you can visually see what's happening when you insert a floppy, and when the Mac tries to read it. Does the mechanism pull the floppy shutter open when you insert the disk? Does the disk actually spin? Can you see the head moving? Try the same experiment with your good drive, so you can have a visual reference for what it's supposed to look like.
If the drive is already non-functional, I wouldn't be shy about getting in there with whatever tools seem necessary and pushing or bending anything that appears stuck. The worst that can happen is it still won't work.
I was just about to ask about the eject mechanism. If it ejects with a paper clip (triggering the eject mechanism, right? with the case on my PM 7100 removed I see a button, essentially). If the auto-eject is driven by a motor, then perhaps there is an issue with the motor.
When you boot from an external disk, what happens with the disk in the internal drive? Does an initialization pop-up come up? Does it not recognize it at all? I also forget if you said - does it sound like it's trying to eject or not at all? Because I suspect there are multiple possible problems if it is an issue with the motor.
And then with the eject issue I would probably check the motor - if that's all it is, since I think the eject mechanism itself works, just not the auto. I don't know if logic alone can solve that...
When you boot from an external disk, what happens with the disk in the internal drive? Does an initialization pop-up come up? Does it not recognize it at all? I also forget if you said - does it sound like it's trying to eject or not at all? Because I suspect there are multiple possible problems if it is an issue with the motor.
And then with the eject issue I would probably check the motor - if that's all it is, since I think the eject mechanism itself works, just not the auto. I don't know if logic alone can solve that...
Good points. I'll take out the external floppy drive out of its case and compare to the other two. I'm traveling for a few weeks, but I'll report back my findings upon my return.
By sheer coincidence, I managed to produce a very similar floppy failure today while I was hacking up a custom floppy cable. The drive made a pathetic vibration sound, but wouldn't spin or eject. The problem was that the +12V line was not connected, only the +5V was. So maybe your +12V supply is bad?