Thread
Need help connecting PowerBook 230 to a LAN and to the Web
I just tested this with a Macintosh Classic running System 6.0.8, but it did have the latest AppleTalk installed.
System 7.5 is a major advance.
System 7.6.1 is the end of the road for System 7 and starts assuming you want OpenTransport.
And if you feel the need to use Open Transport, skip all of the early versions and go straight to OT 1.1.1. OT 1.1.1 will run happily on System 7.1 if you have 8MB of system RAM.
If you go OpenTransport then the OTPing is a great tool for looking at AppleTalk networks.
OK... lots to respond to. First of all, the Duo Dock I have is, I believe, the "first generation" Duo Dock. It has 2 NuBus slots (both currently empty). It has a SCSI port with an "HDI-30" connector... nothing is connected to this. It has an Apple Desktop Bus port, to which a keyboard/mouse is attached. It has a "Printer" port (mini-DIN8), which I assume to be an AppleTalk/LocalTalk port. It does not have any kind of ethernet port... neither an RJ-45 jack nor an AAUI socket.
If the mini-DIN8 cable I have is not actually a "LocalTalk" cable, then I do not understand the difference between that and a "serial" cable. The cable is about 2 meters long, and does not appear to have any termination built into it... it is simply a "straight-through" cable connecting the "printer" port of the Duo Dock to the AsanteTalk device I have. As I have indicated in earlier posts, the LEDs on the AsanteTalk device seem to indicate that there is both transmission and reception happening on the line.
I do not know how to determine what version of AppleTalk is running on the PowerBook. "About This Macintosh" indicates:
PowerBook Duo 230
Total memory 4,096K
System Software 7.1
I do not know what Open Transport is.
I see lots of files on this website:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/
but I'm not sure which I might need. My guess is that I can download a file, put it onto a 1.44M FAT-formatted floppy disk, and then somehow install it onto the PowerBook, perhaps with help from experts here.
Where should I start?
If the mini-DIN8 cable I have is not actually a "LocalTalk" cable, then I do not understand the difference between that and a "serial" cable. The cable is about 2 meters long, and does not appear to have any termination built into it... it is simply a "straight-through" cable connecting the "printer" port of the Duo Dock to the AsanteTalk device I have. As I have indicated in earlier posts, the LEDs on the AsanteTalk device seem to indicate that there is both transmission and reception happening on the line.
I do not know how to determine what version of AppleTalk is running on the PowerBook. "About This Macintosh" indicates:
PowerBook Duo 230
Total memory 4,096K
System Software 7.1
I do not know what Open Transport is.
I see lots of files on this website:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/
but I'm not sure which I might need. My guess is that I can download a file, put it onto a 1.44M FAT-formatted floppy disk, and then somehow install it onto the PowerBook, perhaps with help from experts here.
Where should I start?
Get a NuBUS ethernet card, should be able to find one very cheaply!
Well, although I find trying to get old equipment to work a pleasurable pasttime, I'm not particularly inclined to spend much money on this PowerBook project. If I could find a Nubus ethernet card for $10 or less, I might jump on it, but my experience with eBay in recent months is that shipping alone is usually about $10.
Anyone on this forum have a NuBus ethernet card collecting dust?
Anyone on this forum have a NuBus ethernet card collecting dust?
Update... I found for $20 (including shipping) a Daynaport NuBus ethernet card, which hopefully will arrive in the next week or two. Possibly this will work better than the AsanteTalk device.
Yes, the major advantage is the Mac will use TCP/IP natively on ethernet rather than having to do the MacIP packing-unpacking-gateway.
While I wait for my NuBus ethernet card to arrive, I'd like to upgrade the system software on my PowerBook 230 to the best version that was produced for it, in hopes that it by doing so I will increase my chances of success in getting the PowerBook "networked".
My PowerBook 230 has a 68K processor, not a "PowerPC"... I am trying to figure out if I should attempt to install "System 7.5 Version 7.5.3" which is apparently available from an Apple software archive:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/
According to a text file on the site, "System 7.5.3 requires an Apple Macintosh or PowerBook computer with at
least 4MB of RAM."
I do not think I have any way to restore System 7.1 if I screw this upgrade up, so I am a bit worried about attempting it. I'm also not sure if I will gain anything by moving from System 7.1 to System 7.5.3.
Any advice?
My PowerBook 230 has a 68K processor, not a "PowerPC"... I am trying to figure out if I should attempt to install "System 7.5 Version 7.5.3" which is apparently available from an Apple software archive:
http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_7.5_Version_7.5.3/
According to a text file on the site, "System 7.5.3 requires an Apple Macintosh or PowerBook computer with at
least 4MB of RAM."
I do not think I have any way to restore System 7.1 if I screw this upgrade up, so I am a bit worried about attempting it. I'm also not sure if I will gain anything by moving from System 7.1 to System 7.5.3.
Any advice?
4MB isn't enough for 7.6.1 or 7.5.3/7.5.5 really. It's going to be sluggish. Browsing the web on 4MB...not going to happen, unless we're talking about text-only.
If you want to make it useful, try and find a 20MB module for it.
Here's one which is cheap:
http://www.memoryx.net/pb21020.html
On another website the same 20MB module was $99!
If you want to make it useful, try and find a 20MB module for it.
Here's one which is cheap:
http://www.memoryx.net/pb21020.html
On another website the same 20MB module was $99!
I have plenty of machines with which to browse the web. It would be fun to get a text-only browser running on the PowerBook, but really my primary goals are to be able to move files between it and other machines on my ethernet LAN and to be able to print from it to one of the printers on my ethernet LAN.
Thanks for the link to the memory module, tho. I'll think about it.
Nice to know that I need not bother to upgrade from System 7.1 unless I have more memory than I currently do.
Thanks for the link to the memory module, tho. I'll think about it.
Nice to know that I need not bother to upgrade from System 7.1 unless I have more memory than I currently do.
I've given up on the AsanteTalk device. I never did see it show up on an nbplkup listing, although it certainly seems to be functional, and reportedly was functional when it was last used years ago.
I also never saw it show up on Chooser. I don't know if it should have, tho.
I'm planning to list it on eBay, but if anyone here wants to buy it for $20+shipping, let me know. I'd also consider a trade, for something else that might be useful to me, as the proud owner of a 4MB Powerbook 230 Duo.
I also never saw it show up on Chooser. I don't know if it should have, tho.
I'm planning to list it on eBay, but if anyone here wants to buy it for $20+shipping, let me know. I'd also consider a trade, for something else that might be useful to me, as the proud owner of a 4MB Powerbook 230 Duo.
You could try a different AppleShare server rather than netatalk on Linux.
Eg
(a) Windows 2000 Server Services for Macintosh; or
( B) IRIX 6.5 "Ktalk" implementation
Hmmm. I have machines on my LAN running WinXP Home, WinXP Pro, Vista Home Premium, and various flavors of Linux. I could probably get a Win98 machine running. But I don't have any WinNT or Win2K machines. Do the "Server Services for Macintosh" run on something other than Win2K?
I've never seen IRIX and would not have any idea where to get it.
I never did try putting a 10 mbps-only hub between the Linux machine running netatalk and the AsanteTalk device... do you suppose this could really work when a 10/100 mbps switch did not?
I've never seen IRIX and would not have any idea where to get it.
I never did try putting a 10 mbps-only hub between the Linux machine running netatalk and the AsanteTalk device... do you suppose this could really work when a 10/100 mbps switch did not?
It's worth a try because switches do have to negotiate link speed and the Asante device is pre 100Mbs and does not participate in the negotiation.
Windows NT 3.51 Server
Windows NT 4.0 server
Windows 2000 Server
Microsoft dropped Appletalk for XP and Vista.
I must truly be obsessed with this goose chase, because here I am back at it.
I now have my PowerBook 230 Duo connected to my AsanteTalk device which in turn is connected to a Netgear EN108 (10BASE-T) ethernet hub. All cable connections have green lights. The only other device connected to the hub is my ubuntu 8.10 64-bit machine "quad", which is set up to request an address from a DHCP server, but there is no DHCP host in the system. As a result, ifconfig does not report that there is an eth0 interface active. It seems worrisome that when I run the atalkd command, quad returns "eth0: Operation not permitted" and "atalkd: zero interfaces, exiting." nbplkup on quad returns "nbp_lookup: Cannot assign requested address".
So I then tell quad to use a fixed IP address. ifconfig reports that there is an eth0 interface active, as expected. atalkd now returns "eth0: disabled", and nbplkup returns the same "error" message as above.
I've tried a variety of different lines in atalkd.conf, including just "eth0" and nothing at all (all lines commented out). All produce essentially the same result (either "eth0; disabled" or "eth0: Operation not permitted"), although some lead to atalkd also reporting "Can't configure multicast."
My suspicion is that I still do not understand how to get netatalk to work. Do I need to put a second ethernet connection into quad, so I can try to configure netatalk on something other than eth0?
I now have my PowerBook 230 Duo connected to my AsanteTalk device which in turn is connected to a Netgear EN108 (10BASE-T) ethernet hub. All cable connections have green lights. The only other device connected to the hub is my ubuntu 8.10 64-bit machine "quad", which is set up to request an address from a DHCP server, but there is no DHCP host in the system. As a result, ifconfig does not report that there is an eth0 interface active. It seems worrisome that when I run the atalkd command, quad returns "eth0: Operation not permitted" and "atalkd: zero interfaces, exiting." nbplkup on quad returns "nbp_lookup: Cannot assign requested address".
So I then tell quad to use a fixed IP address. ifconfig reports that there is an eth0 interface active, as expected. atalkd now returns "eth0: disabled", and nbplkup returns the same "error" message as above.
I've tried a variety of different lines in atalkd.conf, including just "eth0" and nothing at all (all lines commented out). All produce essentially the same result (either "eth0; disabled" or "eth0: Operation not permitted"), although some lead to atalkd also reporting "Can't configure multicast."
My suspicion is that I still do not understand how to get netatalk to work. Do I need to put a second ethernet connection into quad, so I can try to configure netatalk on something other than eth0?
Before running 'atalkd' do you ever check to see if it is already running? 'atalkd' isn't just some random program, it's a daemon that is supposed be run once at startup, sit there and manage alot of the appletalk protocol.
My ubuntu box has exactly one ethernet port and the atalkd.conf is basically empty, and netatalk is run automatically at startup.
If running "nbplkup" returns your local machines names but nothing else then netatalk is at least configured and doing stuff. If nbplkup fails with cannot use address or similar then netatalk is down.
OK, here's a status update.
I've acquired and installed into my PowerBook's Duo Dock a Daynaport NuBus ethernet card. I have an ethernet cable connecting the NuBus ethernet card to a 10/100 switch, which in turn is conencted to the rest of my LAN and ultimately to the Internet. The machine I am typing this message on is also connected to the Internet through this same 10/100 switch.
On my Linux machine "quad", also connected to this same switch, I have netatalk running. I can ping addresses on the Internet from quad without problems. nbplkup on quad returns this:
quad:AFPServer 65280.154:128
quad:netatalk 65280.154:4
quad:Workstation 65280.154:4
Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock:AFPServer 65337.1:251
Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock
PCToolBox 65337.1:252
Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo DockowerBook Duo 230 65337.1.253
Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock:Workstation 65337.1:4
On the Powerbook, in Control Panels | Network, I now see a new icon, "Ethertalk". Unfortunately, when I try to select it as my AppleTalk Connection, the Powerbook gives this error message:
"You cannot choose a zone at this time because no internet router is available."
What should I do next?
I've acquired and installed into my PowerBook's Duo Dock a Daynaport NuBus ethernet card. I have an ethernet cable connecting the NuBus ethernet card to a 10/100 switch, which in turn is conencted to the rest of my LAN and ultimately to the Internet. The machine I am typing this message on is also connected to the Internet through this same 10/100 switch.
On my Linux machine "quad", also connected to this same switch, I have netatalk running. I can ping addresses on the Internet from quad without problems. nbplkup on quad returns this:
quad:AFPServer 65280.154:128
quad:netatalk 65280.154:4
quad:Workstation 65280.154:4
Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock:AFPServer 65337.1:251
Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock
PCToolBox 65337.1:252Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock
owerBook Duo 230 65337.1.253Apple PowerBook 230 in Duo Dock:Workstation 65337.1:4
On the Powerbook, in Control Panels | Network, I now see a new icon, "Ethertalk". Unfortunately, when I try to select it as my AppleTalk Connection, the Powerbook gives this error message:
"You cannot choose a zone at this time because no internet router is available."
What should I do next?
It looks like you are on a simple non-routed AppleTalk network (eg all the network addresses are 65xxx., hence would not have multiple zones. Hence no zones to choose from.
Does the icon for Ethertalk stay highlighted within the Network window? Can you close it with the Ethertalk icon highlighted? Does it then say "Switching AppleTalk connections..."?
Oops. It turns out all I needed to do was wait a bit. I returned to the PowerBook just now, and amazingly I was able to see "quad" in Chooser and browse files on quad from my PowerBook!!
Now, of course, I want to figure out how to print from the Powerbook to a printer on the LAN which does not know anything about AppleTalk.
Now, of course, I want to figure out how to print from the Powerbook to a printer on the LAN which does not know anything about AppleTalk.
The tools you may or may not need are netatalk's papd, CUPS, ghostscript and Samba.
Papd may default to printing on the Linux boxes lpr. So if you have CUPS or whatever you can use a redirected printer. Samba would be needed to print to a window's printer. The best solution is to make the Apple box use the LaserWriter 8 driver and print using postscript. Then you may need ghostscript to do the appropriate rendering.
I have papd installed, but its .conf file is currently empty. I will install ghostscript. CUPS is already running on quad, and I believe Samba is as well (but I'll check).
Meanwhile, a new question... I warned that I was a complete Macintosh noob.
I would like to install some new programs on the PowerBook, now that I actually can do so without trying to burn floppies. Unfortunately, all files I find for System 7 have the file extension .hqx, which my Powerbook apparently lacks the program to uncompress (Stuffit?). I looked for "Stuffit Expander", but the only versions of it that I can find are downloadable as .hqx files. A wonderful "Catch 22". The only software on my PowerBook at present is System 7 and a copy of Microsoft Word.
How can I find a version of Stuffit that runs on System 7 and is delivered as a self-extracting executable, or as something directly executable?
Meanwhile, a new question... I warned that I was a complete Macintosh noob.
I would like to install some new programs on the PowerBook, now that I actually can do so without trying to burn floppies. Unfortunately, all files I find for System 7 have the file extension .hqx, which my Powerbook apparently lacks the program to uncompress (Stuffit?). I looked for "Stuffit Expander", but the only versions of it that I can find are downloadable as .hqx files. A wonderful "Catch 22". The only software on my PowerBook at present is System 7 and a copy of Microsoft Word.
How can I find a version of Stuffit that runs on System 7 and is delivered as a self-extracting executable, or as something directly executable?
Hopefully someone will PM you with a copy. In fact PM me and I'll send you what I have. Of course, without being compressed passing through different platforms, you run the risk of the application losing attributes System 7 needs in order to run it. Another option for you is to set up something like Basilisk II on your Linux machine and run a virtual Classic Mac. That way you can run a later OS with more options for expanding Mac software. Often new archive compression schemes are incompatible with software which runs under System 7, though most of the vintage software is compressed under a native OS application.
The Duo line was one of the greatest products Apple ever developed. Unfortunately it did not impress the average consumer, probably because all of the extras began to add up and weigh the average traveler down, because as you discovered, without a dock of some sort, the Duo is practically useless (not to mention having the appropriate software on hand). I wish Apple would re-visit this technology, but it goes against their marketing model (one computer for each location), particularly now that they have the network "Cloud". Today's technology would make a modern Duo an incredibly practical device.
I have written a version of binhex/unbinhex that will also run on Windows NT with Services for Macintosh. So if you have a folder shared from Services For Macintosh you can unbinhex from the windows command line and both forks plus type and creator will be unpacked.
Sadly, I don't have any Windows NT machines, so I don't think I can take advantage of a version of binhex/unbinhex that runs on Win NT.
I do have "macutils" (includes macunpack, hexbin, and binhex, if I only knew how to properly use them) installed on a Linux machine. Documentation of this Linux package seems pretty poor.
I don't understand exactly what an .hqx file should open up (uncompress, decode, etc.) into. A single executable file? A directory? Multiple files?? I remember hearing once that all Macintosh executable files were actually in multiple parts, or "forks"...
I do have "macutils" (includes macunpack, hexbin, and binhex, if I only knew how to properly use them) installed on a Linux machine. Documentation of this Linux package seems pretty poor.
I don't understand exactly what an .hqx file should open up (uncompress, decode, etc.) into. A single executable file? A directory? Multiple files?? I remember hearing once that all Macintosh executable files were actually in multiple parts, or "forks"...
Back to printing. On my Linux machine, I have CUPS, papd, Samba (which I'm not certain I need), and ghostscript installed. I am not sure, however, how to tell my Linux machine to represent itself as if it was a LaserWriter printer.
At present, Chooser on my Powerbook sees "quad" as a file server choice in the AppleShare window, but does not see anything as being present on the LAN in the LaserWriter window.
I do not know how to tell if I have the "LaserWriter 8" driver on my PowerBook.
At present, Chooser on my Powerbook sees "quad" as a file server choice in the AppleShare window, but does not see anything as being present on the LAN in the LaserWriter window.
I do not know how to tell if I have the "LaserWriter 8" driver on my PowerBook.
I think you need those things on your Mac. Your printer has to be network accessible on your Linux machine and your Mac has to be able to see the printer via the network. Unfortunately I don't know how to do any of that below System 8.1.
The way I handle printing on my 128K Mac is to print a PostScript file to disk, transfer that to my OS X Mac and then print it from there. That's the easiest way to do it without having any specific software and instruction more than you have.
The problem you're going to run into is finding an open-source CUPS-type software that runs under System 7. It's that software that knows how to look for a generic printer on the network and print to it. The idea is to set up a macro that your LaserWriter 8 software prints to a temporary file that is then sent via CUPS to the Linux printer driver, at least that's how I've done it under OS 8 to a printer I did not have a driver for at all under OS X.
No, no, no, you have netatalk, so use papd to present a LaserWriter in the network, then to print to it you simply use the Chooser.... on *any* macintosh with LaserWriter printer driver installed.
The mapping that papd uses should treat the data as Postscript, so you need to work out how to print pure postscript from 'quad' first.
Samba is needed if you are using a networked windows printer.