My Color Classic soon to be mystic?

http://colourclassicfaq.com/

Alarmingly, Stuart Bell's Power Colour Classic page seems to be down, but here's the archived version

Also:

http://www.kevinomura.com/macs/colorclassic/index.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20010617164459/http://lowendmac.com/macdan/010523cl.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20021007024949/http://www.jmac.org/~jah/ccvmod/

Amazing what five minutes on Google will turn up :

A little tip - if you're going to keep it running System 7.1 after you install the LC575 logic board, make sure that you've placed a copy of the System Enabler 065 into the System Folder, otherwise you won't be able to boot off the internal HDD with the new board. If the 2GB drive is already in an external enclosure, you're probably best off just leaving it as is - doing an internal HDD upgrade on the Colour Classic involves taking the back off, which does tend to scare some people, even though you don't go near the HV stuff.

Thanks for the responses. I had seen a bunch of those webpages when searching myself, but it is a comfort to be redirected to them by people who know more and still trust the websites. One more thing I'm not clear on - Will I have to resedit system enabler 065 or will it automatically work at 512x384 pixles?

Also - will the machine be upset when I remove sys enabler 401 out while the system is runnig?

I've alraeady taken the back of the CC off (not so bad!) and feel comfortable putting another HD in as long as I can get the external one out of its enclosure...I won't try to do that until I can get the external SCSI to work!

Good Luck! Let us know how it goes!

Also - will the machine be upset when I remove sys enabler 401 out while the system is runnig?

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The best thing to do would be to remove System Enabler 401, then place System Enabler 065 in the System Folder, and then shut the Mac down and perform the upgrade, as the Colour Classic board won't boot with System Enabler 065, but at the same time, the LC575 board won't boot with System Enabler 401. And yes, you will have to modify the System Enabler, with the instructions here, before you do any of this. Use the instructions for System 7.1. Best of luck, and have fun. :beige:

Can anyone e-mail me a copy of system enabler 065 version 1.1? All the download links appear to be broken at this point!

Direct from Apple

Thank you LCGuy, although from the filename it looks as if this could be version 1.2, although I specifically read I need version 1.1 Any thoughts?

MY COLOR CLASSIC IS MYSTICAL! Thanks for the help.

For the record, Sys Enabler 065 version 1.1 can be found here: http://pc.2ch.net/i4004/kako/1014/10144/1014458913.html

Apple only provides the updated 1.2 version, but apparently you need this version for the CC hack.

Now to return to trying to get this guy on the web. My motherboard only came with 12mb installed - what type of RAM do I want to buy to max out? There is just one stick of 8mb currently and only one slot.

thanks,

Dave

The LC575 takes 72 pin SIMMs, officially any size from 1MB to 32MB, unofficially, up to 128MB. They can be found for sale on eBay, on here, and inside Pentium 1 and late 486 era PCs, and other old Macs that used this RAM (LCIII, LC475, LC/Performa 520, LC/Performa 57x, Performa 450, Performa 460, Performa 47x, Quadra 605, Quadra 610, 650, 800, 840AV, Power Mac x100, and the Performa 5xxx/6xxx series). Ideally, go for a 16 or 32MB module, which should be fairly easy to find, and cheap.

My Mystic CC ran with the software hack rather than the 640x480 hack, as I did not want to destroy the analog board: with 36MB ram, a full 68040, a 1GB drive and MacOS8.1, however, it was quite the little powerhouse. The software hack worked flawlessly. I installed every upgrade to QuickTime etc. that I could, and had After Dark doing some funky things on that little screen.

I still have a floppy disk with all the required bits and pieces on it, but as I am presently away from home for a month, I cannot tell you whether the System Enabler I used was the later one or the earlier one. I suspect, however, that the later enabler would work just fine, as the crucial thing is the ResEdit work.

I recently acquired a really nice LC575 shell, however, and, wanting a logic board for it, took the 575 board from my CC and instead, sourced an LC550 logic board for the CC. I then downsized to System 7.5, and am even happier with the machine as THE fast 68030 Compact Mac (33MHz 68030 with a 33MHz bus). I am probably going to revert to 7.1 for even more thrills, but I find 7.5 very stable on 68k hardware, and I like its little extras.

One advantage of this setup is that disk utilities, etc., will work on it without modification, as the machine identifies itself as a CCII. I'd be nervous, e.g., running Norton Utilities on a Mystic with the software hack, because any utility will likely think there is something wrong with the machine and try to "fix" it.

I agree, however, that some modification is desirable, as a stock CC is for me almost unusable.

So would the 575 board take any 72pin SIMM cards up to 128mb? I see many different manufacturers on eBay for 72pin.

Two weird things are happening with the new board:

1) Startup time is varying a lot. When I first put the new board in and hit soft power it immediately started and made the bong. Then it went to the color "Welcome to Macintosh" screen for a good five minuites or so, which had me thinking that I had messed up the ResEdit stuff. Then, just as I was going to restart it, it very slowly started loading extensions and the background image. Then it booted into 7.1 very quickly, and worked flawlessly. The next times I restarted it, it started a good deal quicker than original CC board. Now when I start it, it takes a very long time on the first exention (time and date) and then moves along snappy after that... any ideas?

2) Some weird color changes. I just played a quick game of Bert (my favorite game on my Classic, but so much better in color ) and notcied that while I was playing the colors would change on the screen every minuite or so. I had a few times where the colors would just lose their vividness, and then about 30 seconds it would come back...they were all washed out with more whiteness and less color. This happened several times. The ColorSync profile is still set to "Mac Color Classic" and I was able to move my colors to "thousands" whereas I think the previous board limited me to 256 colors. Any thoughts?

One more mystic question...What are the specs of the audio device on the 575 motherboard? I don't see them listed other places. I am wondering bit-depth/sample rate and also mono/stereo. The LC575 looks like it had stereo speakers, but the CC has just one mono speaker that is working, so I'm wondering if the line out on back is possibly stereo? What is the sample rate/bit depth for microphone recording? I do a lot of studio recording and would love to be able to use the CC as a simple scratchpad for recording ideas.

Theoretically it should...a couple of members on here have had success using 64MB and 128MB SIMMs in their machines. I haven't dealt with any SIMMs over 32MB myself.

As for the startup time...there could be something up with one of your extensions or control panels. Can you tell us what extensions and control panels you have installed?

As for the LC575's sound specs, it supports 8 bit stereo sound out, and 8 bit mono sound in, both at 22 kHz from memory.. And yes, the sound output port on the back IS stereo.

As for the LC575's sound specs, it supports 8 bit stereo sound out, and 8 bit mono sound in, both at 22 kHz from memory.. And yes, the sound output port on the back IS stereo.

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Yup. Of course you can always add a stereo sound-in card in the PDS slot. The Color Classic analogue board actually contains the traces to add a right stereo speaker. All one needs to add is the Amp, caps, resistors and a connector for the speaker. I've actually done this with one of my CCs using a spare CC speaker which fits perfectly back-to-back with the existing CC speaker, and cannibalizing the parts from my 575 analogue board (which of course is now mono). The path from the logic board is already wired to the analogue board, so the CC wiring will route the 575's L&R signals where they're supposed to go.

So would the 575 board take any 72pin SIMM cards up to 128mb? I see many different manufacturers on eBay for 72pin.

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I think Mike sells the 64mb SIMMs on the Adopt a Mac website. They work fine in the 575 board, and are probably cheaper than the eBay options.

Congratulations on getting your Color Classic upgraded. I am contemplating the 640 x 480 mod as well, so let us know how that goes if you end up trying it.

EDIT: It appears the 64mb SIMMs are not listed and I should have checked first; maybe he ran out, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Wonderful. Unfortunately I don't have a 575 board to get the other analog components for stereo speakers, but I don't know if 8bit 22khz sound is worth it for stereo anyways. Very interesting info though, seems like they were planning the Classic II/LC575 parts when they originally designed the CC analog and logic board.

Adopt a Mac only seems to have 36mb sticks right now. Not bad, but if this machine can do 64mb or 128mb and I'm hoping for internet, it only seems smart to go higher.

Because this CC I found is in immaculate aesthetic condition, I've decided not to do the 640x480 hack in case I want it to be a great example of a CC with its original logic board in the future. If I get another CC somewhere, perhaps not in tip-top physical shape, I'd be very interested in doing the hack. It just isn't very easy to find another CC analogue board!

Well, you could use the LC 575 board, and save the CC board for later restoration.

From the last mentioned website:

"This board works hard while you're using your Color Classic. Performing the "Takky" modifications to your Color Classic only increase the stresses placed upon the board. Not only are the power requirements increased with the new motherboard, but the VGA-Mod or the Hi-Res mod will also increase stress on critical analog board components."

Perhaps this is why my video is changing? I had a lot of problems getting my CC to turn on originally, so perhaps an already stressed analog board is being further stressed?

Perhaps this is why my video is changing?

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I didn't think you performed the 640x480 mod.

An interesting side note here: I put my Mac TV logicboard in the CC and not only did it boot up without any special enablers, the screen also had a default resolution of 640x480 without any software or hardware hacks to the analogue board. This tells me that the logic board has all the necessary output to send the proper signal to the analogue board. This is likely due to the fact that the Mac TV was designed to output 640x480 TV resolution, but I have no idea what aspect of the logic board differs to allow it. It also makes me wonder if the CC wasn't originally considered for a Compact Mac TV variant. This would explain why the CC was designed with stereo audio hardware in place (Interestingly none of the pre-580 models have stereo input, except via PDS slots). The reason why the LC 520 came into existence in the first place was because Sculley had bad eyes and took one look at the CC and declared they needed a bigger all-in-one: never mind the Mac had sold millions without one in the first place.

seems like they were planning the Classic II/LC575 parts when they originally designed the CC analog and logic board.

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The Color Classic II (assume that's what you mean as the Classic II had nothing to do with stereo) did not have stereo speakers/hardware in place either. Also, the 520, 550 & Mac TV all have the same analogue boards. The original Color Classic was designed as color replacement for the Compact Mac. If you take your CC apart down to the bezel, you will see that the little perforated chin under the lip is designed to accept a standard speaker similar to ones used in the compacts. This would correct a problem that came up during the Classic manufacture which led to a factory perforation on the left side of the Classic II case for better speaker clarity: a single mono speaker facing forward like the SE's. So the CC was planned as a mono Compact from the beginning. I think the change came when they decided to use it to promote Quick Time and upgraded the quality of the speaker in a design that accommodated a left & right speaker out each side of the case vents. However, when Sculley demanded a 15" version with a CD-ROM be released alongside the CC, I think they made the decision to eliminate stereo audio from the CC, in part to keep costs down, but also to differentiate it from the 520 in the marketplace. However, the 520's logic board and analogue board are otherwise identical to the CCs, aside from certain component specs, suggesting they were already being designed for the CC (It would be interesting to see if the CC logic board is capable of discrete stereo, but simply summed to a mono output). Indeed the turn-around was so fast from Sculley's mandate they would have been hard-pressed to add anything else to the hardware. The only reason they were able to do it was because the IDG had already created the 520 case design as an experiment which they hated so much it was shelved. The engineers took it over IDG's objection and modified the CC's hardware to fit it and had the 520 on the street a mere 3 months later.

If my Compact Mac TV theory holds water, the CC would have been a much more practical computer for a dorm room bedroom anyway (the intended market for the Mac TV). The addition of the 520's CD-ROM was a last minute for a consumer model, only introduced the year before in the professional high-end Quadra, IIvx and mid-class Centris models, it was the first in an LC and intended primarily for music. Of course, the CC's size would not accommodate a CD-ROM drive, but it was not co-incidentally introduced in the same year as Apple launched their consumer products division, with the PowerCD (a combo SCSI CD-ROM drive and portable WalkMan-type audio CD player). The combination of the two would have been far more useful for the average teenager and college student than the the heavy Mac TV/entertainment center. Sadly Apple gave up on all 3 products without ever getting them right.

Perhaps this is why my video is changing?

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I didn't think you performed the 640x480 mod.

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No, I didn't perform the hi-res mod, but perhaps the analog board isn't expecting a 33mhz 68040, 12mb of RAM, stereo sound and 1mb of VRAM either. I don't know much about this stuff, but clearly the specifications of the things it is supporting have changed.

I am having trouble finding out whether or not the CCII was stereo sound...Perhaps that was part of the aim in making the CC analog/hardware stereo-readying, seeing as the 550 shares the logic board with the CCII. There may have even been some revision throughout the lifespan of these models - for example, some of the CC logic boards are missing the CUDA buttons. As models were designed and parts demands changed, from a business perspective, some mono models may have been loaded with some stereo parts.

Does this mean that my CC is currently running stereo sound (when playing stereo audio files, of course) and the speaker is only outputting one channel? Or is it summed after the logic board?

One more question - should I have 32-bit addressing on? Or will it not matter until I exceed the 12mb

One more question - should I have 32-bit addressing on? Or will it not matter until I exceed the 12mb

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You can't use more than 8MB without 32-bit addressing, IIRC.

Yeah, you're always best off having 32 bit addressing turned on unless you've got software that only supports 24 bit.

The analog board isn't expecting a 33mhz 68040, 12mb of RAM, stereo sound and 1mb of VRAM either.

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I hadn't thought of that, but yes the analogue board is presumably set to supply less power than the 575 board demands. It could conceivably have an effect on your color. Though the possibilities are lost on me at the moment.

I am having trouble finding out whether or not the CCII was stereo sound

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I corresponded with the owner of a Performa 275 in Japan who confirmed the CCII is a stereo logic board, but the analogue board is still mono (with one speaker). When you think about it, it would make no sense for Apple to manufacture a completely different logic board for the 550, when they are otherwise identical. Essentially costing more than eliminating a part or two to maintain two separate assembly lines.

Does this mean that my CC is currently running stereo sound (when playing stereo audio files, of course) and the speaker is only outputting one channel? Or is it summed after the logic board?

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Yes, your 575 logic board is stereo output. The CC's analogue board may sum the stereo output to mono, or it may be outputting merely the left channel. The fact that my modified CC's analogue board accepts the discrete left and right from my 575 logic board, suggests that the CC logic board is outputting a summed signal on both the left & right lines, which the analogue board either sums or ignores. In the case of the CC, the audio signal is summed to mono from the logicboard. In other words, if you put the CC logicboard into a 575 case, the output would be mono, even in the presence of stereo amplifiers and speakers on the analogue board, the fact that it comes from both speakers means it's outputting a signal in both channels (albeit the same one). The question I have is whether the CC's ROM sums the audio signal generated from a stereo file in software, or whether this actually happens somewhere on the logic board.

But it would be interesting to know whether the analogue board is summing your 575's stereo signal or ignoring the right channel. Since we know the 575 is outputting a stereo signal to the analogue board, it would be an easy matter to play a stereo file and determine what is happening. I honestly can't remember if I removed a resistor between the L&R signal paths or if they were connected at all. However, I would fully expect the analogue board, being stereo capable, to be prepared for a future upgrade, despite being redundant for use with the CC's mono logic board.

FYI, I believe the parts required to modify the analogue board are all standard over-the-counter available, the speaker notwithstanding. I think there is something devoted to that on the CC Faq, or on Sturt Bell's site.

Mac128, I'd be happy to test out how the channels are working later this week. If someone could be as kind to a) let me know what type of stereo file i'm making for a system 7.1 machine B) best program run it on the CC

Okay, so the mysitc board has been installed a few days and performance is, well, unreliable. Right now its been trying to start on the "welcome to macintosh" screen after locking up for the 3rd or 4th time. This time it locked up after trying to start disk copy 4.2, but has also started when I put in a screwy DOS disk that it didn't like. Still no reason to lock up. Right now I am tempted to restart the machine, but ehhhh. I'm thinking of doing a complete OS re-install since I haven't done that since I' got the machine. Anyone know a good way for me to install system 7.1?

I haven't played with sound files on the old Macs in a long time, but back in the day I used to use a freeware program called SoundApp, and used to use AIFF files.

As for your Mystic being unreliable, how was it before you put the Mystic board in? Also, what extensions and control panels are you running? Have you tried holding down the Shift key at startup to disable extensions? Just wondering, as since we're dealing with the classic Mac OS here, it could be a rogue control panel or extension thats doing it.

As for installing System 7.1 - it was distributed on either floppy disks or CDs. Its commercial software, was never made available for free legally, but it is out there, and in your case it should be perfectly legal to download it since your machine shipped with 7.1 in the first place.

Mac128, I'd be happy to test out how the channels are working later this week. If someone could be as kind to a) let me know what type of stereo file i'm making for a system 7.1 machine B) best program run it on the CC

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Quick Time should be able to convert to any older format that will work on the version of QT that came with the CC. A .mov file should be most compatible. But I would think the earliest versions of Quick Time would have supported .WAV & .AIFF. I would not suggest Apple's SND format as I believe it is mono only.

Update: I had to unplug my CC from wall outlet and turn of mains (though I usually leave it soft-off because of all the trouble I had getting it on in the first place) and when I did, it turned on fine again but the clock was wrong and 32-bit addressing was turned off, though it was last set to on. Pretty fast startup, better than CC. Then I went into Memory Control Panel, turned 32-bit on, and restarted so it could take effect - THEN it was a really long startup.

Control Panels:

Color

Date & Time

Easy Access

File Sharing Monitor (does not work now because I installed system 6 file sharing server accidentally)

General Controls

Keyboard

Labels

Map

Memory

Sound

Monitors

Mouse

Numbers

Screen

Sharing Setup

SuperClock!

Startup Disk

DLS

Users & Groups

Views

MacTCP

ColorSync Profile

PC Exchange

Network

Extensions:

ColorSync

Sys7 Tuner

Apple Ethernet LC

Apple Ethernet NB

EtherTalk Phase 2

Thread Manager

Clipping Extension

Mac Drag and Droop

Quicktime 1.5

Network Extension

Dragging Enabler

Billminder

Claris Kermit Tool

Serial Tool

XMODEM Tool

Apple Modem Tool

Text Tool

TTY Tool

TTY Font

VT102Font

~Font Porter 1.0

VT102 Tool

Fax Monitor

Printer Share

Fax Print

CP Scheduler Extension

Also - A Chip called '575 Prestener' but with no wire connected was installed on the video area of the motherboard. I left it on there, this could effect video I believe?

I haven't re-installed the OS since I got it, so it is full of little old things from a past full-time user.

575 Presenter, maybe?