Thread
An open letter to the 68kMLA community...
Absolutely. If you don't like what goes on in the Lounge, IGNORE IT. No-one's holding a gun to your head to read every single thread in there.
You can't change human nature. Everyone loves a chat, and a gossip, and whether you personally approve of it or not, it WILL happen. Many of us have made FRIENDS here, and the words of support to members in crisis is as much a part of building a community as helping them resurrect a rusty old Plus logic board. Kill one, and you kill the other - why would I bother offering my assistance without some sense of fellow-feeling and commonality with my comrades in arms?
Having NO Lounge would only result in all those "off-topic" discussions spilling over in to all the other forae, and in to unrelated threads. Try to imagine that.
Pull the leash too tight here, and we'll end up a tumbleweed-strewn, wind whistling ghost town like the once awesome 'fritter.
Hear hear.
Did we ever :-/
That's actually not a bad idea. I would support that. And the robots.txt restriction should only apply to the second category.
My thoughts on the lounge:
* Remove - NO
* Nuke and Pave - NO.
* Auto delete after {x} time - NO.
* Cherry pick, delete chaff - NO.
- Valuable information DOES exist in the Lounge. It should remain searchable from inside the forum. I don't believe it is either practical, from a time and labour point of view, or appropriate, for the mods to judge which threads are relevant and worthy of retention.
* Logged in members only, no Google index - YES
* Two categories - Off topic IT/Tech, and Other - YES
To me, a minor point compared to the others, but I absolutely agree.
And my personal gripe: PLEASE use the "Quote" button appropriately. Quoting the ENTIRE post directly above yours to add a three line comment is entirely unnecessary. If you are replying to specific points in a previous post, please quote only those points. EDIT the quote. Ghah.
Concur.
8-o
Exactly!
IF, we split the lounge into two sections, perhaps: the lounge and offbeat tech or some such: emulating 'fritter's other tech and remember outdoors I might be convinced that this is a good concept.
However, from day one of my enlistment, the lounge has been a hotbed of everything ranging from proscribed technical discussions right down to what can only be considered outright silliness. I strongly feel that such discussions enhance the "quality of life online" for our membership AND act as a magnet for the same type of avid collectors/offbeat personalities that nearly all of us seem to me to be here at the barracks.
It might actually be a good idea to have a "frequent flyers" type "lounge" that IS only open to registered members and 'bot free. An appropriate title might actually be the barracks! Such a forum might well act as an enticement for enlistment to those visitors interested in the old iron info, the discussions of offbeat tech, and the banter about non-tech/reasonably limited personal issues in the lounge.
The natural curiosity of such personality types will very likely be piqued by the mere existence of something closed off to them, such as a forum the likes of the barracks, further increasing enlistments!
IMHO the answer to our current dilemma might be :
1) splitting the lounge into THREE different categories as outlined above . . .
2) offering THREE different options for the selection of current posts . . .
3) more, but a reasonable level of, use of the "sticks of justice" . . .
4) and more frequent movement of "off forum" discussion into the proper category, most conspicuously, the barracks.
BTW: the definition of "off topic" discussion is not clear to me at all. I was under the impression that it applied to posts within a specific thread, NOT to the initiation of threads as a whole, and most CERTAINLY not to topics posted in the lounge.
The definition of the lounge has always been crystal clear, it was for the posting of anything unrelated to any specifically defined forum. Therefore the suggestion that discussions in the lounge can in any way be defined as "off topic" seems, to me, to be an oxymoron.
With the exception of a single lounge being available only to logged on members, I think we are in complete agreement on all other issues. With the addition of something along the lines of the barracks, that single caveat would disappear . . .
. . . and hopefully we can put an end to this increasingly divisive topic . . .
. . . and end the alarming rate of increasingly hostile postings. >
jt =8-/
p.s. thanks a lot, b! I'm freakin' cross-eyed from trying to straighten out the quote function in a post, within a post!
p.p.s. pretty sure it still isn't right, if you don't like it and can find my errors, feel free to edit.
If you don't like the lounge don't read it - simples. Without a forum like the lounge where people can let of steam an talk off topic the other Mac related forums will become far more clogged up with inane, off topic talk which will really rattle people. Not indexing the Lounge makes sense but even deleating the posts seems pointless unless we need the server space badly.
How can a number be illegal? Perhaps divulging a particular secret in certain jurisdictions.....
The number itself isn't illegal; that's silly. What's illegal is use of that number.
This thread is going wayyyyy off topic, I think replies should not be allowed any more :
I hope this problem gets resolved.
I hope this problem gets resolved.
Hmm, this topic has certainly made "progress" and I find it fairly amusing. I will put my real 2 cents in on the matter, even if I end up just reiterating what has already been said.
My best advice is to just CHILL OUT. This is an internet forum, not something that will cause the world to implode if it gets out of hand. To the people that think all of the off-topic "bullshit" should be removed and this forum be strictly on-topic, know that this place wouldn't be very enjoyable at all, with every community you have to have that community aspect. Where you can share your opinions with the people that share similar interests to you, where you can make friends and show off your desktop background etc. For those of you whose argument is that twitter/myspace/facebook is for this kind of thing, you are right, but unless everyone in your friend list happens to be interested in 68k/PPC macs, this place serves an important purpose.
As for the piracy/abandonware debate, just drop it, it's illegal and you are lucky that it held out for as long as it did. It really doesn't bother me because it was around long enough that I know where to look for this stuff, and who to PM if I'm looking for something obscure.
I prepare for any replies, rude or not.
Regards,
MMP
My best advice is to just CHILL OUT. This is an internet forum, not something that will cause the world to implode if it gets out of hand. To the people that think all of the off-topic "bullshit" should be removed and this forum be strictly on-topic, know that this place wouldn't be very enjoyable at all, with every community you have to have that community aspect. Where you can share your opinions with the people that share similar interests to you, where you can make friends and show off your desktop background etc. For those of you whose argument is that twitter/myspace/facebook is for this kind of thing, you are right, but unless everyone in your friend list happens to be interested in 68k/PPC macs, this place serves an important purpose.
As for the piracy/abandonware debate, just drop it, it's illegal and you are lucky that it held out for as long as it did. It really doesn't bother me because it was around long enough that I know where to look for this stuff, and who to PM if I'm looking for something obscure.
I prepare for any replies, rude or not.
Regards,
MMP
Why is that a problem? I consider that a feature. One of the huge disadvantages of Ebay, as compared to the old trade-things-in-comp.sys.mac.wanted system, is that you can't warn folks off of obvious junk, etc.
Speaking of Usenet, where is comp.sys.mac.vintage or the equivalent? I've already got comp.sys.apple2. :-*
The thing I love about Usenet is that there are no rules; only eternal shame if you break any of them. xx(
The thing I love about Usenet is that there are no rules; only eternal shame if you break any of them. xx(
It's a problem because some members have unnecessarily slandered sellers due to lack of knowledge, high prices, or the nature of the item sold. If we do allow posting of eBay links, the discussion of sellers should result in disciplinary action. This is not a place to come and bad-mouth people who may not be as into Macs as we are. We know fair prices and specifications because we are interested in these machines. The average person may think a Quadra 700 would be worth $250 used or may think a Mac SE runs DOS simply because they inherited these computers from someone and now need to sell them.
It's actually quite amazing how CSA2 manages to mostly on-topic and mostly civil without any sort of moderation whatsoever.
That's the thing isn't it... if there were no rules here we could avoid all of this bickering. ;-)
In all seriousness, I think the volume of topics discussing the administration of the 68kmla is approaching ludicrous... what the membership needs to get through its collective thick skull is that you simply can't please everyone... and really, in the big scheme of things, it's all rather trivial.
eBay links have ALWAYS been a great way for all the troops to see what's available and how it's priced, "correctly" or at exorbitant levels, and to find out what to be aware of in terms of inaccurate specs.
IMHO, poking fun at some of the absurd pricing levels or blatantly inaccurate specs can hardly be considered "slander." Furthermore, discussion of the relative worth of such items in open markets is an extremely valuable learning tool for new recruits, some of the middle ranks, and even old-timers, who aren't quite as current as we'd like to be in this type of information.
IMHO, the assumption that all the troops are "in the know" on ANY subject should be avoided at all costs.
At NYMUG meetings the Q&A session rules were inflexible . . .
1) We're ALL here to learn.
2) The only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked.
3) Making fun of newbies/any snickering at their questions/disdain for those who're ignorant (in correct usage, meaning the non-insulting, accurate definition of the word) of basic knowledge was WAY OUT OF LINE!
IMHO, the same rules should be applied to topic postings and replies made by the troops here at the 68kMLA.
However, those outside our clubhouse and offering the things we're collecting, NEED to be considered fair game, as what seems absurd pricing to one member might not to another who has enough desire for that particular item and the disposable money available to meet the price. Any comrade can also contact the seller, explain the situation, and make an offer to "Buy it now" if the item is re-listed at the offered price. I've used this method several times to buy items at a "reasonable price" without violating eBays rules! The learning tools outlined above are enhanced by such relatively harmless ridicule.
IMHO, of course,
jt :b&w:
I haven't read through this whole thread fully, but here is my opinion.
There should be a board for non-Apple computers, and maybe another one for non-personal-computer technology(cars, video games, tvs, cameras, etc. If not then that stuff could go in the lounge)
The lounge should have general discussion topics, but nothing too personal(I lost my job, etc)
The lounge should be open up to the public again, because it seems like activity has dropped alot.
There should be a board for non-Apple computers, and maybe another one for non-personal-computer technology(cars, video games, tvs, cameras, etc. If not then that stuff could go in the lounge)
The lounge should have general discussion topics, but nothing too personal(I lost my job, etc)
The lounge should be open up to the public again, because it seems like activity has dropped alot.
So you can talk about the same wintel crap that all the other technology forums on the net talk about, but you can't mention the real world?
This is turning into a flame war.
ALMOST, but not quite as yet, IMHO.
There is bound to be a certain amount of acrimony expressed on such a subject.
That said, keep it civil, comrades!
As an attempt to get things back on track:
This is, ostensibly, a military organization. Like all such organizations, especially elite sub-units of such organizations, we've developed a strong sense of tradition/culture over time. This forum was created by a few enthusiastic renegades from the MacAddict forums almost ten years ago for the purpose of liberating the old iron.
We have many traditions here at the 68kMLA, one of which is a freewheeling discussion of almost anything imaginable in the lounge, as well as, Off Topic/MARGINALLY On Topic postings in any given thread. There is a reason for the camaraderie that is readily apparent here. There is also a reason that this organization has stood the test of time. If it was merely for the dissemination of 68k lore, why has a richer source of such content such as 'fritter, had its forums turned into a ghost town?
I understand that some of the relatively new recruits may only be interested in OT info, however this is a club, and when one joins a club, it is usually (at the very least) considered rude to join and then try to change the rules or traditions of that club to suit one's own specific interests.
IMHO, it doesn't really matter why any individual enlists here, all that matters is that the 68kMLA remains a growing, vibrant community (effective military organization) and some of the suggestions made here pose a clear and present danger to the long term health of this organization.
Comrades, please read each others posts carefully, take all viewpoints into serious consideration before making a reply. But most of all, be mindful of the fact that we must keep the viability of these forums at the forefront of those reflections, not anyones individual interests!
jt =8-|
I second that.
I think something we should consider is having a "town hall" style meeting/debate on the chat room where all the admins and moderators would be present and willing to listen to input. One question would be discussed at a time and the moderators and admins should take the first stab at answering it/looking for solutions before turning it over to the rest of the members (which should be optional for some questions).
No board is perfect but by listening to all input, especially that of members who have been here a while, I feel we can continue to make this the best community possible.
Also, to reply to a post a few posts back--the lounge should definitely be unindexed (by search engines) and, in my opinion, locked to the public. As I have pointed out there have been many posts of a personal nature left by some of our members (such as employment concerns, relationship issues, etc) that do not add to our mission as a 68K Mac organization and are, quite frankly, not the business of the general public. To me these posts show a good sense of community, as some of our members who feel the need to vent obviously trust the others on this board, but I will once again back this up with a classic car show analogy. One can drive down the highway showing off his 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado, restored and possibly hotrodded, and can show it off while driving to and from the show. The car can also be left on display for those curious about, say, the dashboard, to see what it looks like. However, if a group of guys are talking about what they bought their wives for Christmas or Hanukkah, they are likely going to do so when the general public is not around asking questions about the cars they are showing. The members are together and engaging in good, healthy talk amongst themselves (after all, socialization is a key element of human life) yet are not broadcasting this in a public area and do not share this sort of information when someone comes around to look at or ask about the cars. It's the same way on here--keep the Mac stuff for the masses to see while keeping personal thoughts or concerns private (and for that matter, off-topic stuff that's not going to add to what a guest would come to this board for).
Until but a minute-or-two ago I had read none of the preceding discussion but ~tl's original kindling. Temetka's post (notably, but not solely) came close to enunciating the aching centre of the matter: taste. The presence of a Lounge is not inherently out-of-place for this Army, but some of the postings to it are. From comments about trading on eBay to closely personal events in the lives of our soldiers none is ipso facto out-of place, and may be instructive to other soldiers — and our sympathies must lie with any of our soldiers who are so bereft of living, breathing, close-by friendship and support that they feel forced to bare their problems here — but closure of the Lounge to passing bots and the prurient gaze of visitors is one merciful way to reduce their exposure.
We live in an increasingly tasteless age. If you doubt that, count the number of in-your-face TV ads featuring pantie-liners, penile disfunction, imaginative sexual practice and the like that will come at you without forewarning in any given week. Must we have visible instruction in the virtues and application of toilet paper caught by a WC-cam before a revulsion sets in? The tastelessness is partly generational and strongly commercial, and you can propose your own potential causes for that. However, there is no legislating for taste, just as there is none against stupidity or belligerence. Nonetheless, a qualified privilege must exist for a special-interest association such as ours, and this Army is well-entitled to voice its displeasure, civilly but unambiguously, if boundaries are overstepped in its forums.
In short, let's continue to have a Lounge. Let's also be prepared not to welcome drivel, conscious offence and dangerous overstatement in it. In the special-interest forums, history will be a better arbiter of what should be discussed than we are able to be at this moment. RIP Applefritter.
de
We live in an increasingly tasteless age. If you doubt that, count the number of in-your-face TV ads featuring pantie-liners, penile disfunction, imaginative sexual practice and the like that will come at you without forewarning in any given week. Must we have visible instruction in the virtues and application of toilet paper caught by a WC-cam before a revulsion sets in? The tastelessness is partly generational and strongly commercial, and you can propose your own potential causes for that. However, there is no legislating for taste, just as there is none against stupidity or belligerence. Nonetheless, a qualified privilege must exist for a special-interest association such as ours, and this Army is well-entitled to voice its displeasure, civilly but unambiguously, if boundaries are overstepped in its forums.
In short, let's continue to have a Lounge. Let's also be prepared not to welcome drivel, conscious offence and dangerous overstatement in it. In the special-interest forums, history will be a better arbiter of what should be discussed than we are able to be at this moment. RIP Applefritter.
de
Thanks for your feedback one and all. It's reassuring to know that so many of you care about this community, even if you don't all share the same views on it's place/purpose.
First off, maybe it was wrong of me to make a jibe about closing the Lounge completely. That's not going to happen, I agree that it is a necessary part of community. However, my original appeal was more for everyone here to step back, chill out a little, and reconsider their views on posting here.
Secondly, I've changed the new posts link (again). It's now two links as you may see... the "View new posts" link will show you all new posts while the (Lounge) link will show you posts from every forum except the Lounge. Hopefully this will mean that people will have the choice as to which way they want to view the posts. The Lounge will stay closed to non-registered members/bots since, but will remain searchable from the forum's search function. As others have said, the content in there is not likely to be the sort of things people would search Google for anyway and it's better for the privacy of those members who do decide to share personal topics.
First off, maybe it was wrong of me to make a jibe about closing the Lounge completely. That's not going to happen, I agree that it is a necessary part of community. However, my original appeal was more for everyone here to step back, chill out a little, and reconsider their views on posting here.
Secondly, I've changed the new posts link (again). It's now two links as you may see... the "View new posts" link will show you all new posts while the (Lounge) link will show you posts from every forum except the Lounge. Hopefully this will mean that people will have the choice as to which way they want to view the posts. The Lounge will stay closed to non-registered members/bots since, but will remain searchable from the forum's search function. As others have said, the content in there is not likely to be the sort of things people would search Google for anyway and it's better for the privacy of those members who do decide to share personal topics.
I think we should have a General Vintage Mac forum, for all of the un-catogorizable, but on-topic, threads. We could use it for the threads such as the Lets Play A Game... thread, as to me that is "on-topic"
It's certainly under consideration... I just forgot about it in my last post [] ]'>
] ]'>Excellent idea.
I'm going to suggest something that a few of you seem to be missing:
It's not about the Lounge, stupid.
Look, some of the members of one camp (let's call them camp A) positively hate some of the members of the other camp (let's call them camp B) . Perhaps the felling is mutual. I don't really keep in touch with the members of camp B, so I don't know. Now camp A doesn't really like what they see from camp B. Camp A thinks of themselves as true collectors: people who acquire and restore old machines, and find and preserve old software. That's the sort of stuff that they want to discuss, because that's the sort of thing that interests them.
Their perspective on the other camp is quite dismal. Sometimes they see camp B as being more interested in socializing than collecting. It is easy to associate their banter with "web 2.0", "twitter", "blogs", etc. because the nature of their posts are mostly pollution as far as group A is concerned. Sometimes that pollution is obvious (discussions of the latest release of Mac OS X), other times it may be less obvious (banter about sources for 68k software, rather than a technical discussion).
Now the true collectors just want the pollution to be gone, preferably along with the people who created that pollution (unless they adapt). And the easiest way to do that is to eliminated the hangout spot of group B. Sure it will hurt group A, but it won't be as significant. And that is what matters to most people.
It's not about the Lounge, stupid.
Look, some of the members of one camp (let's call them camp A) positively hate some of the members of the other camp (let's call them camp B) . Perhaps the felling is mutual. I don't really keep in touch with the members of camp B, so I don't know. Now camp A doesn't really like what they see from camp B. Camp A thinks of themselves as true collectors: people who acquire and restore old machines, and find and preserve old software. That's the sort of stuff that they want to discuss, because that's the sort of thing that interests them.
Their perspective on the other camp is quite dismal. Sometimes they see camp B as being more interested in socializing than collecting. It is easy to associate their banter with "web 2.0", "twitter", "blogs", etc. because the nature of their posts are mostly pollution as far as group A is concerned. Sometimes that pollution is obvious (discussions of the latest release of Mac OS X), other times it may be less obvious (banter about sources for 68k software, rather than a technical discussion).
Now the true collectors just want the pollution to be gone, preferably along with the people who created that pollution (unless they adapt). And the easiest way to do that is to eliminated the hangout spot of group B. Sure it will hurt group A, but it won't be as significant. And that is what matters to most people.
The feeling is mutual, I don't like some members of "Camp A" because they come off as extremely rude and pushy. But yes, I suppose agree with you, it's not the forum, it's the people. We are the forum, in a sense.
Keep it CIVIL! >
That would be a serious failing on anyone's part, type A OR type B . . .
AS I said before, it doesn't really matter why any individual enlisted, this thread is strictly about what is good for the 68kMLA in the long run!
You're forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT POINT! This community PRE-DATES, by a very large percentage of its existence, all the timesink CRUD to which you would wish to banish some of our comrade's posts.
I submit that you are way out of line! The 68kMLA has a long and glorious history, it was founded by renegades who wanted to do their thing. That was about equal doses of collecting and cutting up in the lounge, IIRC. If marchie, ~coxy & most especially cinemo, were around to see what you are trying to shackle this place into becoming, they'd beat you unmercifully with their "sticks of justice."
There is a reason we're still here and growing, and it's NOT got a THING to do with those "serious collectors" as you call them. It's about our institutional memory and a lot of VERY CREATIVE/fairly silly folks that know a boatload of info about old macs and are willing to share that info with all comers.
However, MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, this is our club and HE/SHE WHO JOINS will not be changing the atmosphere around here to suit their own wishes. We've lost some very heavy hitting regular posters around here recently. A couple of them have said it was because we've been overrun with teeny-boppers (I've cleaned that up a bit) that I've tried to look upon as "eager young recruits." These kids just need a little seasoning and will turn out just fine, as did the teenagers who founded this organization. Those that joined up later and took up the reins, like ~tl & bunsen, and all who came before them have matured here to become responsible young adults.
Some of the founders and "new chums" have gone their own way, and they are remembered! Some show up once in a while to check in on their Army. ALL are missed!
This is, ostensibly, a MILITARY ORGANIZATION and we have a LOT of tradition and some esprit de corps which was NOT developed by "serious collectors," but by an eclectic group of amazing characters!
Change the spirit of this place and it'll die off like the rest. If any of you are "die hard/silliness intolerant collectors," you'd better discuss forming your own club, because this club is rapidly losing interest in keeping YOU around!
IMHO, of course,
It's no mystery that all people do not necessarily agree with or get along with one another. What defines us is our ability to at least be civil about our misgivings.
I have done my best not to subscribe to either group.
It is my opinion that even defining such groups does not add to forum cohesion. Quite the opposite in fact. What it does due is fracture our community and serve to drive a wedge between the members. Doing so not only hurts the forum as a whole, but hurts our reputation and at the very least makes us look like a bunch of sniveling people.
What we should be working towards is defining what the problems or mis-communications are and to address those in as civil a manner as possible. The mods and Tom have done an outstanding job of putting up with what frankly, is childish behaviour. Most of us would agree that this type of behavior would not be tolerated in a workplace, so why should it be tolerated here?
I have been a proud member of this forum for many years and have been able to meet quite a few interesting people and make some new friends. This forum has provided all of us with a wealth of information and has served as a meeting ground for like minded individuals to come together and hang out. It really bothers me that this has gotten to the point it has. What should define us as a community is not only our systems lore, but our ability move forward as people in the face of adversity and strive to come out not only on top of, but stronger because of it.
I have done my best not to subscribe to either group.
It is my opinion that even defining such groups does not add to forum cohesion. Quite the opposite in fact. What it does due is fracture our community and serve to drive a wedge between the members. Doing so not only hurts the forum as a whole, but hurts our reputation and at the very least makes us look like a bunch of sniveling people.
What we should be working towards is defining what the problems or mis-communications are and to address those in as civil a manner as possible. The mods and Tom have done an outstanding job of putting up with what frankly, is childish behaviour. Most of us would agree that this type of behavior would not be tolerated in a workplace, so why should it be tolerated here?
I have been a proud member of this forum for many years and have been able to meet quite a few interesting people and make some new friends. This forum has provided all of us with a wealth of information and has served as a meeting ground for like minded individuals to come together and hang out. It really bothers me that this has gotten to the point it has. What should define us as a community is not only our systems lore, but our ability move forward as people in the face of adversity and strive to come out not only on top of, but stronger because of it.
Wowa there, you are the one who is way out of line.Keep it CIVIL! >
This community PRE-DATES, by a very large percentage of its existence, all the timesink CRUD to which you would wish to banish some of our comrade's posts.
The 68kMLA has a long and glorious history, it was founded by renegades who wanted to do their thing.
If marchie, ~coxy & most especially cinemo, were around to see what you are trying to shackle this place into becoming, they'd beat you unmercifully with their "sticks of justice."
it's NOT got a THING to do with those "serious collectors" as you call them.
This is, ostensibly, a MILITARY ORGANIZATION
f any of you are "die hard/silliness intolerant collectors," you'd better discuss forming your own club, because this club is rapidly losing interest in keeping YOU around!
First of all, I was pointing out that we have a turf war between at least two camps. They probably aren't organised per se, but the attitudes are there. Second, I don't subscribe to either camp, even though you seem to be painting me as the ring-leader of the collectors. Even though I am more sympathetic towards the more serious collectors, my posts definitely fit in with that other camp.
Finally, you're way too emotionally involved to even pretend to have moderator status. Look at the (admitedly selective) tidbits from a single post that you made in this thread. That is not moderation. That is participating in the turf war. It is why someone like myself will never be a moderator in a place like this, and it is why you should take your moderator hat off and set it aside.
I agree that there have become too many "civil wars" within our forum's friendly confines. I think what may be best is to schedule a time in the chat room when we can have a large-scale meeting about the "hot topics" that have been at stake for the past few weeks. This way we can clear up any misunderstandings about the current systems, talk in a civil manner amongst ourselves (if I were running the chat I'd give everyone three strikes before asking them to leave in terms of "keeping it civil"), sort out our differences, and come up with something that is best for the majority of members.
We would essentially be drafting a Constitution-type document in the same way the Founding Fathers of America drafted the US Constitution. If you've studied American history you are probably aware that there were plenty of disagreements between them. Debate is healthy from both a civic and psychological point of view and is often the only way everyone can see the severity of some issues. Not everyone on this forum is from the United States, but other countries have gone through similar events in their past so I'm sure most of you are familiar with this process. However, we don't want a "revolution" on this forum. Respect your fellow posters and your moderators and they shall respect you.
I think we've already seen a few important things resolved with this thread. People on this forum seem to be taking copyright more seriously now and blocking the lounge to guests and bots is certainly a good thing for our members who post personal topics there. The issues we seem to be having now revolve around what can be discussed in the lounge, whether or not we should have subforums within the lounge (or multiple lounge-type forums), and the fact that posts still cannot be edited after they have been online for one hour. There are probably a few other issues here and may be a few others that pertain to the atmosphere in the chat room (which I do not frequent) so hopefully we could have one final meeting once and for all to sort these issues out amongst ourselves and to put an end to this thread.
It has been a shame to see some of our posters leave. I will have been a member for three years on Wednesday and have seen my share of good and bad times on here (including the Great Crash of 2007 where we lost service for a month and had to start over from square one). If we could survive the Great Crash, we can get through this and emerge a stronger board (and stronger members) from it while helping to make the community a better place for everyone.
As for those complaining about "teeny boppers"--I think it's a good thing that we have younger members becoming interested in vintage Macs. While they may not have the societal experience or knowledge of various topics (including the law) that our older posters have, they can certainly contribute and may even be able to offer completely new perspectives on our favorite machines. Someone born after the discontinuation of the vintage Macs may have never used them in school or in the workplace as many of us have. To me, it shows a great appreciation for the vintage technology when someone who has known high-speed internet, modern conveniences, and modern operating systems such as OS X for nearly all of their life can sit down and have a good time with a computer manufactured long before their birth. Besides, we need the younger guys to carry on since us old guys won't be around forever; the younger generation needs to take over for us some day!
We would essentially be drafting a Constitution-type document in the same way the Founding Fathers of America drafted the US Constitution. If you've studied American history you are probably aware that there were plenty of disagreements between them. Debate is healthy from both a civic and psychological point of view and is often the only way everyone can see the severity of some issues. Not everyone on this forum is from the United States, but other countries have gone through similar events in their past so I'm sure most of you are familiar with this process. However, we don't want a "revolution" on this forum. Respect your fellow posters and your moderators and they shall respect you.
I think we've already seen a few important things resolved with this thread. People on this forum seem to be taking copyright more seriously now and blocking the lounge to guests and bots is certainly a good thing for our members who post personal topics there. The issues we seem to be having now revolve around what can be discussed in the lounge, whether or not we should have subforums within the lounge (or multiple lounge-type forums), and the fact that posts still cannot be edited after they have been online for one hour. There are probably a few other issues here and may be a few others that pertain to the atmosphere in the chat room (which I do not frequent) so hopefully we could have one final meeting once and for all to sort these issues out amongst ourselves and to put an end to this thread.
It has been a shame to see some of our posters leave. I will have been a member for three years on Wednesday and have seen my share of good and bad times on here (including the Great Crash of 2007 where we lost service for a month and had to start over from square one). If we could survive the Great Crash, we can get through this and emerge a stronger board (and stronger members) from it while helping to make the community a better place for everyone.
As for those complaining about "teeny boppers"--I think it's a good thing that we have younger members becoming interested in vintage Macs. While they may not have the societal experience or knowledge of various topics (including the law) that our older posters have, they can certainly contribute and may even be able to offer completely new perspectives on our favorite machines. Someone born after the discontinuation of the vintage Macs may have never used them in school or in the workplace as many of us have. To me, it shows a great appreciation for the vintage technology when someone who has known high-speed internet, modern conveniences, and modern operating systems such as OS X for nearly all of their life can sit down and have a good time with a computer manufactured long before their birth. Besides, we need the younger guys to carry on since us old guys won't be around forever; the younger generation needs to take over for us some day!
My sentiments, exactly. The "meeting ground" and the development of comradery in general and formation of actual of friendships here are, IMHO, a direct result of the example set by the founding members, a healthy mix of seriousness and silliness, that helped this organization grow.
I've seen several waves of new recruits enlist, thrive, and mature here at the 68kMLA and have enjoyed every bit of the process, whether it be helping them out with some simple questions and even some rather esoteric info regarding the underlying architecture of the NuBus era Macs and PowerBooks.
It has also been an honor to have been able to offer a bit of guidance here or there.
It IS all about the lounge and the off-topic asides withinn any given thread here that have made the difference between our success and 'fritter's failure as viable fora, IMHO.