Thread

Living in an OS 9.X - ADB/SerialMac World . . .

Living in an OS 9.X - ADB/SerialMac World . . . Hardware 52 posts Sep 9, 2009 — Nov 27, 2009

#31 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 19:59

THAT'S THE ONE! / VGA port??

Click to expand...

IIRC it was only made in Blueberry / it shipped with a standard VGA connector

Click to expand...

Later models were also colored Graphite, to match the first G4s.

Some of these suffer from flyback failure. If you are purchasing one, test it first for at least 3 minutes by connecting it to a VGA source. Any popping noises or sudden squeezes/zoom effects in the tube should disqualify the purchase. I wind up recycling 2 out of every 5 of these displays I get due to the flyback.

Thanks for the troubleshooting guide, just copied the quotes above into a WP Document to throw onscreen during testing.

Thanks, comrades, it'll even help with dickering over price! }

#32 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 22:45

I like my B&W's but thats around the time Apple went trendy with form over function.

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/ such gimmicky computers as the iMac & Cube (?) etc, but those products were YEARS in development, long before the (volatile) steve brought his (miserable failure) NeXT technology back to Apple.

The iMac was the right product at the right time.

- Inexpensive price, powerful processor - but it had no PCI slots, so it didn't cannibalize G3 sales.

- Joe Sixpack home users rarely use PCI slots - the iMac already had Ethernet onboard, USB took care of almost everything else.

- The colors got people to notice Macs. It was a huge refresh, these machines look different, they are different. Think Different and buy one.

A lot of the work on the iMac was already started with Steve Jobs came aboard, so it can not be entirely attributed to him.

The Cube is a different story:

- Too expensive. Tried to be as powerful as a tower G4 in a tiny package, but most people would rather have the bigger cheaper G4.

The Mac mini got it right - small size, small price. That's an ENTIRE computer in there - and still pretty powerful (but not as much as a G5 or Mac Pro).

#33 Fri, 11 Sep 2009 - 23:50

You must be thinking about the original Wallstreets because the rev 2 models did fit the whole screen in 640x480 and 800x600 modes on the LCD (you were stuck with 1024x768 on the original).

Thy why does my originally 266MHz w/66MHz bus PowerBook G3 that I later dropped a 300MHz CPU into keep the res 1:1 with the physical pixels?(black borders)Come to think of it I am not sure if I ever tried lowering the res in anything other than a couple games that it played very badly.

To be fair I have no idea if the logicboard was ever replaced. All I know is that it came to me with a 266MHz CPU and 4GB HDD so matches PDQ specs more than WS specs..

I could prop the display up on something and grab a bootable OS 9 CD and see what video chipset it has then tear it down and check for logicboard model number so we could see if Apple ever mixed boards or parts on the boards between the WS/PDQ.

#34 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 03:20

he ostensibly saved the company with such gimmicky computers as the iMac & Cube (?) etc, but those products were YEARS in development, long before the (volatile) steve brought his (miserable failure) NeXT technology back to Apple.

Click to expand...

The iMac was the right product at the right time.

I couldn't agree more . . . about the iMac, it's just that I CAN'T STAND THAT ARROGANT PISSANT! >

- Inexpensive price, powerful processor - but it had no PCI slots, so it didn't cannibalize G3 sales.- Joe Sixpack home users rarely use PCI slots - the iMac already had Ethernet onboard, USB took care of almost everything else.

- The colors got people to notice Macs. It was a huge refresh, these machines look different, they are different. Think Different and buy one.

Agreed!

A lot of the work on the iMac was already started with Steve Jobs came aboard, so it can not be entirely attributed to him.

erm . . . I think that that's what I said! [

] ]'> . . . but the black clad bozo tried to take ALL the credit!

IMHO, of course! [

] ]'>

#35 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 03:56

Well, I'm back from behind enemy lines again and I brought back a Blueberry Bundle, another MordorSoft Ergonomic KBD, to complete the pair I need for yet another KBD HackAthon . . .

. . . maybe I'll farm out the PCB production and cut all the little boards apart after one big board is fabbed . . .

. . . like they did with chips back in the early (before recorded history) VLSI era. :I

Also snagged a nifty Dell PII Clone with Windows 95 on it, of all things! That's what the sticker said . . .

. . . but it also said it was worth $25-$50! :lol:

Mostly I got it for the ubuntuGIMPboxHack because it's got a beige CD-ROM Burner AND a beige internal ZIP drive!

Testing will follow later, after I blow the dust hippos outta' that FILTHY POS!

I'm letting the Studio Display cool off before doing further testing . . . but I have a sneaking suspicion that my plastic fish have found their new abode. The monitor is drop dead gorgeous, there's NO DIRT or DUST AT ALL, inside the case or even much on the outside. Didn't these thing's innards attract dirt like a magnet?

The hardwired VGA Cable had never been unwrapped and apart from a few scratches on the top edges, probably picked up at the thrift shop, it looks to be N.I.B. condition and the picture quality is just awesome. but after about five minutes I get a little antsy and every time I try to fiddle with the resolution it goes blank and I can sometimes get it back up again for a bit, but methinks there's something rotten in the state of the blueberry patch.

Whatever, I got lotsa' neat hackable parts, maybe even a "working" '95'd PII ("working" and '95 were seldom seen in the same paragraph, much less in the same sentence!) and . . .

. . . change back from my $30.00 BILL! [

] ]'>

#36 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 07:42

So if you drop a 292 CPU into a PDQ, you get the 83MHz bus and the better video? Or would there be other components in the 66MHz models that choke on the higher bus speed? I guess Mark Schreier would have the answer to that.

My first wallstreet was a 233 mhz with no cache and a 66mhz bus. A friend gave me a 292 mhz processor and after that I also had an 83 mhz bus speed. Still had the crappy video and 12 inch screen but it sure was faster.

#37 Sat, 12 Sep 2009 - 20:43

Testing will follow later, after I blow the dust hippos outta' that FILTHY POS!

Did I say dust hippos? Definitely LARGER than THAT! I've NEVER seen such a MASSIVE cloud of dust exit a computer like this. 8-o

But it does boot into '95, the CD works in read mode and the ZIP drive wanted to reformat a Mac Zip, so all's good so far on that front.

That BlueBerry thing is lookin' more & more like plastic fish housing every minute . . . >

#38 Sun, 13 Sep 2009 - 01:45

Lizard Lick?????????? :?:

A street sign about 1.5 miles from the 'intersection' - sorry about the lighting. Sometimes taking pictures with a cell phone sucks...

#39 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 06:22

Did I say dust hippos? Definitely LARGER than THAT! I've NEVER seen such a MASSIVE cloud of dust exit a computer like this. 8-o
But it does boot into '95, the CD works in read mode and the ZIP drive wanted to reformat a Mac Zip, so all's good so far on that front.

Just for kicks, I tried to choke the WinTel sucker (POS) to death with the ubuntu FULL distrib CD, it actually got the background up and what looked like top and bottom (blank of course) menu bars before . . .

. . . dropping as dead as if it had been pole-axed! HeHeHeh!!!!! }

That BlueBerry thing is lookin' more & more like plastic fish housing every minute . . . >

That Blueberry, Tripod Mounted CRT might not be quite ready for the gutting knife yet, I get a full five minutes out of it before I ever see a jitter and then I've only seen one pop/zoom event/thingie after it had been running for over 15 minutes.

Once I get a B&W G-3 (none too soon, due to $ constraints) or its temporary substitute online as a plotter server, I can just set the screen to blank after 3 or 4 minutes, it doesn't take long to get a job rolling, so I don't need the monitor any longer than that.

Whatcha think, gang?

#40 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 08:54

woz's idiot, blue jeans/designer t-shirt wearin' partner coming back without a REAL COMPUTER GUY (read:the woz, obviously [] ]'> ) to keep said idiot in line.

There were plenty of real computer guys at NeXT, and he brought them all with him.

(miserable failure) NeXT technology

Err, beg to differ. From a market penetration point of view, certainly, but as technology? NeXTSTEP was streets ahead of anything else on the market, especially as a development environment. And even the market failure could be partly blamed on the non-compete contract Jobs had to sign when leaving Apple.

IMHO, integrating NeXTSTEP is what saved Apple in the long run. The iMac was a reprieve from immediate doom, but porting the best available Unix development environment is what saved the platform. A cool Unix dev system attracts the alpha geeks, the alpha geeks build the coolest software, the cool software attracts the customers.

I don't know if you know this, but OS X is kind of awesome.

NON-COMPUTER $-Cows as iPods, iTunes, and most recently iPhones.

Sorry - how is an iPhone or an iPod Touch not a real computer?

#41 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 10:35

That Blueberry, Tripod Mounted CRT might not be quite ready for the gutting knife yet, I get a full five minutes out of it before I ever see a jitter and then I've only seen one pop/zoom event/thingie after it had been running for over 15 minutes.
Once I get a B&W G-3 (none too soon, due to $ constraints) or its temporary substitute online as a plotter server, I can just set the screen to blank after 3 or 4 minutes, it doesn't take long to get a job rolling, so I don't need the monitor any longer than that.

Whatcha think, gang?

The pop/zooms will only get worse and worse as the flyback degrades. Eventually, the monitor will perform several of these "arcs" per minute. This should be considered a hazardous state and the monitor immediately retired if it gets that bad.

#42 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 19:22

What's a flyback? (transformer?) Why should they be so hard to replace? This POS will be MINT . . .

. . . after I polish the scratches off the top edges of case!

#43 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 19:31

Since we're supposedly a family/youth friendly military organization . . . :

. . . .and, as a mod, I've been setting a very bad example of late . . . :I

. . . let me suggest a new acronym for the 68Kmla LEXICON . . . [

] ]'>

POOM . . . Piece Of Organic Material! [

] ]'>

#44 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 20:52

You must be thinking about the original Wallstreets because the rev 2 models did fit the whole screen in 640x480 and 800x600 modes on the LCD (you were stuck with 1024x768 on the original).

Click to expand...

Thy why does my originally 266MHz w/66MHz bus PowerBook G3 that I later dropped a 300MHz CPU into keep the res 1:1 with the physical pixels?(black borders)Come to think of it I am not sure if I ever tried lowering the res in anything other than a couple games that it played very badly.

To be fair I have no idea if the logicboard was ever replaced. All I know is that it came to me with a 266MHz CPU and 4GB HDD so matches PDQ specs more than WS specs..

You probably have a rev 1 board (they will work with the 66mhz bus speed chips). I think the originals have rage LT video chips while rev2 have rage 3d (might be a difference in VRAM size as well). The originals had sloped plastic on both sides toward the clasp, rev2 had a cliff on the top section.

Many people swapped parts and displays over the years so you have no idea what exactly you have and if it is factory stock.

#45 Tue, 15 Sep 2009 - 21:55

What's a flyback? (transformer?) Why should they be so hard to replace? This POS will be MINT . . .

. . . after I polish the scratches off the top edges of case!

The flyback transformer (FBT), also called a 'line output transformer' (LOPT), is a special transformer which is used to generate high voltage (HV) signals at a relatively high frequency.

They can be replaced, but be warned you need to replace the faulty unit with one identical in spec or nastys will happen, also since they are the generator of some seriously wicked HF High Voltages (20 - 50 KV) they can flatten you before you can say snot

Often times replacements are more expensive than the screen, and usually not an option unless you happen to have another sitting around with the exact same transformer and something else wrong (ie bad tube vacuum)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_transformer

#46 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 01:40

just look on kiji for a nother imac, just plop in the hard drive and done, no changing transformers, if you do somthing wrong you are DEAD

I just got a g4 and that replaced my g3 imac that is dying

#47 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 01:58

The flyback transformer (FBT), also called a 'line output transformer' (LOPT), is a special transformer which is used to generate high voltage (HV) signals at a relatively high frequency.

They can be replaced, but be warned you need to replace the faulty unit with one identical in spec or nastys will happen, also since they are the generator of some seriously wicked HF High Voltages (20 - 50 KV) they can flatten you before you can say snot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flyback_transformer

Thanks for the link, and the warnings about safety and price, guys! I've worked on High Voltage Systems before, but I think I'll wait for TomLee to chime in before making any final decisions.

I can usually source even ancient Apple Replacement Parts that are not normally available to the general public . . .

. . . because I don't ask very often and only for a part whose replacement is VERY labor intensive. [

] ]'>

#48 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 06:32

The Flyback is not a direct "Apple Replacement Part". The only thing close, would be the entire analog board as a service part. Any old stock has probably been depleted or recycled by now.

Additionally, since this is the main failure for these displays, most of the "bad" ones you'll come across have the exact same issue. The tube almost never goes bad, unless the display is dropped or otherwise damaged.

#49 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 19:54

The flyback transformer (FBT), also called a 'line output transformer' (LOPT), is a special transformer which is used to generate high voltage (HV) signals at a relatively high frequency.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, and the warnings about safety and price, guys! I've worked on High Voltage Systems before, but I think I'll wait for TomLee to chime in before making any final decisions.

Click to expand...

Well, I'll just have to call a couple of EEs I know who've been involved in SERIOUS MacHackin' since the 128! [

] ]'>

The Flyback is not a direct "Apple Replacement Part". The only thing close, would be the entire analog board as a service part. Any old stock has probably been depleted or recycled by now.
Additionally, since this is the main failure for these displays, most of the "bad" ones you'll come across have the exact same issue. The tube almost never goes bad, unless the display is dropped or otherwise damaged.

NoPro, I can probably source/or get a spec & source for the requisite parts . . .

. . . they may even have a usable analog board lying around! [

] ]'>

_______________________________________________________

Come to think of it, has anyone ever researched the availability of newer analog boards from other mfrs. This particular CRT had to have been used by several mfrs. One of their ABs might be of a usable size/shape etc. What was the last monitor mfd with this CRT? [

] ]'>

p.s.mode>_______________________________________________________

#50 Wed, 16 Sep 2009 - 23:22

I believe it is a Mitsubishi Diamondtron CRT, but I don't know if you can just yank one out of a Mitsubishi model or not. And again - there's a good chance that the Mitsubishi has the same problem!

The most common cause of failure of these blue displays (and most likely the Mitsubishi sibilings) is the flyback.

#51 Thu, 17 Sep 2009 - 00:17

the best way is to look at the thing and get anything written on it

#52 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 - 01:21

Hello!

Ahh, a person after my own heart! Here is the state of my current "Mac OS 9 Machine"...

Blue & White G3 (revision 2 motherboard)

PowerLogix PowerForce G3/1.0GHz with 1MB L2 CPU Upgrade

1 Gig matched Ram

3dfx Voodoo 5 video Card (64 megs)

PCI SATA controller with 320 GIG Sata Drive attached (for files)

250 GIG ATA Drive 7200 rpm (OS boot drive)

Wired 4 DVD PCI Dvd playback card

Creative Soundblaster Live audio card

Pioneer Superdrive

Matias Tactile Pro Keyboard

I have pieced this thing together over about a year or so and I really love the hell out of it. The Voodoo 5 is a kick in the ass with old games, and with the PowerLogix upgrade, you can control your CPU speed via a software control panel which make playing old game GREAT and EASY since you can just dial down the speed if the game plays too fast! I also have a great time with streaming internet audio piped through the Creative Soundblaster live. This card got some pretty crappy reviews (mostly due to a lack of OS X drivers), but if you get the last software update and use it under OS 9 it is a real fun experience with lots of audio tweak options. And lastly, the Wired 4 DVD card will output your dvds in surround sound if you hook it up to a compatible receiver. Pretty slick for OS 9 huh!

Is it just me or don't the old machines that have been upgraded like this one just SCREAM in OS 9 compared to the new Macs in OS X?

Like I said I really love this machine!

Anyways, just my two cents. Have a good one!!!

AdeptRapier