Thread
SuperDuoHack Brainstorming Session =8-D
Maybe!
Downloaded a bunch of specification .pdfs, the thickness may be an issue, we'll see . . . [
] ]'>found this though:
http://www.viaopenbook.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5&Itemid=10
Looks interesting . . . in terms of cribbing ideas! [
] ]'>
Man where were you 10 years ago?
I was using a Duo Dock with Audiomedia II cards and wanted a portable rig I could move around without having to drag a mouse, keyboard and monitor.
I also wanted a full featured presentation rig with a video card, so I could drive the show from a distance using mirroring to show one thing on a projector and have other applications on the LCD "hidden" from the audience.
Why-oh-why Apple did this I will never know. I have heard everything from they wanted to force you to buy a monitor and didn't want it to compete with a high end PowerBook, which in those days wasn't much smaller or lighter.
I was using a Duo Dock with Audiomedia II cards and wanted a portable rig I could move around without having to drag a mouse, keyboard and monitor.
I also wanted a full featured presentation rig with a video card, so I could drive the show from a distance using mirroring to show one thing on a projector and have other applications on the LCD "hidden" from the audience.
Why-oh-why Apple did this I will never know. I have heard everything from they wanted to force you to buy a monitor and didn't want it to compete with a high end PowerBook, which in those days wasn't much smaller or lighter.
Pushing my 2300c Bookkeeping/field AI8 Workstation as hard as I could, well into its period of obsolescence and then for a few years past when it was undeniably obsolete! [
] ]'>I'll bet it really roasts you, now that you've discovered that all you needed to do "back in the day" was to desolder either the "chip select" or "power" leg of the DuoDock's DeclROM to achieve what you wanted to do, doesn't it?
Ouch! The only reason I ever tried any of this, about eight years ago, was to "win" the offered prize over on 'fritter of some free Mac or other . . . and to produce a really cool hack!
The infamous DuoBoomBoxDockHack™ (long since abandoned :
)
Apple is just Apple, they don't need reasons for doing a metric crapload of stupid things, just be grateful that they did several metric craploads of things that were really bright, creative and well ahead of the WinTel Hegemony's utterly futile attempts at "drafting" Apple's lead. (Stock Car Racin' terminology . . .
. . . guess livin' in NC is bringin' me back in touch with my redneck roots: Indiana Farm Boy!) :lol:
Well, as much as it seems that way ... there is always a reason. I doubt we'll ever know unless the changes were detailed in confidential development notes now archived at Stanford. Most likely, another reason I heard was that they did not want to tax the power supply by powering the internal LCD. Combined with the cost savings of not supporting a larger PSU, nor including spanning capabilities on the dock, greed is the most likely reason. Which come to think about it seems to be the primary motivation behind everything at Apple.
Which, taken in context, was probably short sighted in terms of market share growth, but good for the next quarter's stockholder's report . . . which was INDESCRIBABLY STUPID! IMHO, and speaking theoretically of course!
One of Apple's major shortcomings was to place an overriding importance on form/styling, while scrimping on function by designing a custom $3.98 per unit , industry SUB-Standard, woefully underpowered supply for every other machine produced!
. . . as well as most human activity, to be fair to Apple. :
BTW, the spanning capabilities were always in there, as in the MiniDock it's just that the DuoDock's DeclROM disabled them!
Wow, a company that set out to make a profit. :O What a bunch of aholes. :scrambled:
I defended Apple in this case, but they did make some really bad long term decisions in the early '90s. When a company concentrates on making higher profits on a dwindling market share, they usually wind up in trouble. As has Apple on several occasions. However, the rumors of their impending doom were greatly exaggerated by a generally unfriendly environment on Wall Street, in the Press and even in the majority of Computer Magazines covering multiple platforms.
Aiming for a controlled rate of growth and increasing market share, while remaining profitable enough to keep the stockholders happy, is generally considered the way to go in business circles, IIRC. [] ]'>
Apple's haphazard approach to business has turned out fairly well in the long run, but it certainly wasn't due to effective management over the long haul.
IMHO, of course!
BTW, let's try to stay on topic! } :lol: [] ]'>
Aiming for a controlled rate of growth and increasing market share, while remaining profitable enough to keep the stockholders happy, is generally considered the way to go in business circles, IIRC. [
] ]'>Apple's haphazard approach to business has turned out fairly well in the long run, but it certainly wasn't due to effective management over the long haul.
IMHO, of course!
BTW, let's try to stay on topic! }
:lol: [] ]'>
. . . speaking of which, I've decided that it's probably a little bit premature to be shopping for CPUs for the ubuntuCentricSuperDuoHack™.
If anyone has suggestions for LCD panels that might be appropriate for the Duo's lid, please post them.
I would think that sourcing solutions and nailing down that specification, along with finding an acceptable cable for the available passage, ought to be pursued before worrying about a CPU!
CPU candidates appear to be cropping up in better, faster, smaller, more apropriate packages with some regularity! [] ]'>
If anyone has suggestions for LCD panels that might be appropriate for the Duo's lid, please post them.
I would think that sourcing solutions and nailing down that specification, along with finding an acceptable cable for the available passage, ought to be pursued before worrying about a CPU!
CPU candidates appear to be cropping up in better, faster, smaller, more apropriate packages with some regularity! [
] ]'>Just out of curiosity, are you looking for something that fits the original hole in the case plastics without modification, or something that by some definition of the word "fits" in the lid? (original bezel opening be darned?) You've expressed a desire for having some super-multi-mega pixel count panel, but I have doubts you'll find anything better than 1024x768 in a 4x3 aspect ratio that'll fit. (By either definition.)
Most 4x3 LCD panels 10.4 inches (which is bigger then the stated bezel size for a Duo 2300c) or smaller are 800x600 or less. 1024x768 panels are available, if pricey. (Just google for them.) This 8.4 inch unit seems to be as small as that resolution goes, and I also saw a nine inch panel as a spare for a specific Sony Viao model. However, the smallest 1400x1050 panels I could find were 12.1 inches. (And incredibly expensive ala carte... it was on a site that sells LCD panels for aircraft control panels, but I'm pretty sure you could also find this size/resolution on at least a few expensive subnotebook computers.) So... If 12.1 inches is too big for a Duo lid I don't think you're getting megapixel resolution.
I still think you'd be much better off buying a small subnotebook and restuffing it into the Duo case and forgetting this "piece it together from pieces" idea. Ala Carte LCD panels in these resolutions are $400 and up. I'm sure you could find a Pentium M subnotebook for about that price to use as your innards, and it'd run Ubuntu just fine. If you can't be dissuaded, look up websites that sell stuff for "carputers". Their forums tend to be alive with LCD fabrication and tiny motherboard discussions. Just be prepared to spend a *lot* of money. (A coworker of mine is two grand into his carputer project and hasn't even cut metal yet.)
I never meant to give that impression, a FULL format 1024 x 768 will stomp any NetBook's 1024 x 600+- display just fine for me!
Original bezel opening be D****D! }
Your logic is impeccable and your advice is very wise as always, EudiG!
I shall begin the search for such a 'book and forget about PCB design for individual parts. I'll concentrate on noodling out methods to break all, except the most necessary of, the 'book's connections out the Duo's tuschie. I shall also do so, with or without utilizing the Docking Connector, on the basis of practicality versus DuoDock-alicious Orthodoxy.
Drat the luck! :-/
:lol: 
) Candidate ahoy!
A bit under spec, but a later model, perhaps?
/ETA/ Looks like they got bigger as they got faster, drat it.
Not a chance, we're lookin' for newer & better parts than HP_Mini's specs!
What toothy said! [
] ]'>
Problem is, OEM builders are likely to get their hand on "newer and better" long before lowly chop-job garage tinkers like you and I :lol:
Out of curiosity I've been doing a little noodling myself to get some idea what your choices would be for donor laptops with small enough screens, and it turns out that finding 4x3 aspect XGA-res 10.4-inch models in the US may be tough. There are a number of "Japanese only" machines that use that size, but Americans seem to draw the line at 12 inch displays for anything remotely modern. Probably the most "available" machine you're going to find is the Sony Vaio X505 or one of its relatives.
(And to be completely blunt, it would be a sin to cut up one of those to stuff in a Duo carcass. It's less than half an inch thick, for crying out loud! It'd be like cutting up a Lotus Elise to re-engine your old Yugo.) :^b
*If* you could cram a 12.1" panel physically inside the lid I'd think your best bet for a powerful donor would be a Thinkpad X60. Looking it up... here's the dimensions of the Thinkpad:
10.5" x 8.3" x .83 - 1.11" (width x depth x thickness [varies from front to back])
While a Duo 2300c is listed on Everymac as:
10.9" x 8.5" x 1.5"
There might be *just enough* room to squeeze it in there, although you'd have to take so much meat off the original lid that you might have structural issues. (Not to mention the curve along the top...that could put an end to it right there.)
The one other option you could consider, if you can yield on the aspect ratio issue in favor of more pixels, is that there are/were a number of 1280x768 or 1366x768 "widescreen" laptops that had 10.6 to 11.1 inch displays. The Sony Vaio TX series is one, but it looks like at least Asus, Fujitsu, and Averatec had similar models. The Viao is 10.7" inches wide, so *hypothetically* you might get that screen into the Duo lid with more room to spare than the full-height Thinkpad one. The vertical dimension would probably be about the same as the original screen.
Of course, what comes around with any of these is once you get your hands on one will you really want to ruin it by stuffing it into a PowerBook Duo's case plastics? ;^) These are all thinner and lighter and sexier than your target chassis. I know you've expressed a preference for a trackball over a trackpad, but doesn't the 2300c (and that's what I've gotten the impression you have) have a trackpad anyway?
YUGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
. . . think MG-TD Roadster! [
] ]'> The Duo 
factor will NEVER sink THAT low! [] ]'>Widescreen at a MINIMUM of a full 768 pixels high is no problem at all! It's a FEATURE! I'll do anything necessary to have a Duo's plastics enfold ANY sized donor that'll kick some NetBook@$$, however "current cool" the design! I'd pick a retro-cool look over that ANY day of the week.
My only regret is that there are no transportable computers with the
factor of "Mid Century Modern Design" as candidates for hacking!As I said, bite your tongue, you pointy toothed carnosaur! The Duo/DuoDock/Mini/MicroDock system's
factor is timeless!IIRC, I've got every version of Duo extant, and I'm ready to use the thinner grayscale lid at the drop of a hat. However, if necessary, I'll use the color lid to allow for any additional reinforcement necessary!
It's time to kick some NetBook Butt! }
. . . as soon as I can save up the $! :I "The MG TD is a standard transmission, rear-wheel-drive roadster. It represents the state-of-the-art in engine design, transmission, and suspension... for 1952. Which means, what? The engine breaks frequently, it leaks oil almost as fast as it burns gas, and it handles only marginally better than a bathtub."YUGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!How dare you?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O
. . . think MG-TD Roadster! [
Given the quality of Apple's engineering in the mid-90's... sure, I'll go with that as an apt comparison for the PowerBook Duo 2300c. ;^)
Personally I think the Compaq Portable III is a nice piece of work, as is the Morrow Pivot, but I don't think I'd have the heart to seriously hack either one, at least if it were in complete working condition. (Although the Pivot *would* be a great candidate for a widescreen LCD...)Widescreen at a MINIMUM of a full 768 pixels high is no problem at all! It's a FEATURE! I'll do anything necessary to have a Duo's plastics enfold ANY sized donor that'll kick some NetBook@$$, however "current cool" the design! I'd pick a retro-cool look over that ANY day of the week.
My only regret is that there are no transportable computers with the
In any case, I stumbled across a shopping site that conveniently orders laptops by screen size. Here's a link to the "11 inch" category. Everything in "10 inch" is either an Atom netbook or an *incredibly expensive* Panasonic Toughbook. (Note I've never ordered anything from these guys so I'm not recommending them in any way, but the list is useful for finding "currently being manufactured" candidates.) From what I see there the Vaio "TT" series, Lenovo IdeaPad U110, or a couple Asus models with 11.1 inch screens are the only things with both Core Duo CPUs and horizontal dimensions less than a 2300c. There are some 8.9 inch tablet machines that would also certainly fit, but the screen would be smaller than the hole in the current bezel.
All these things sell for some pretty serious scratch. (two grand ballpark) I admire your intestinal fortitude if you really go through with buying one of these just to cut it apart.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol: I couldn't agree more, but TDs were undeniably fun to drive (except for old windbags that're prone to hyperbole) and had a
factor far beyond that of my brother's Miata or any current, plastic bumpered wonder (with the possible exception of the new VW Beetle Convertible, in which one can spread one's legs far enough apart for comfort, avoid pain in, a/o flattening of, a certain pair of rounded sections of the male anatomy) despite any Leyland product's obvious shortcomings.Besides, NOBODY actually buys a British Sports car to drive it . . . :
. . . they buy one to "mother" it! } HEH! }
I'm ALREADY well into seriously hacking a Compaq Portable II as a luggable peripheral for HP_Mini! There'll even be room for some microscopic mobo one day, but for now, it'll be my internet coffee-house conversation hack! And it'll make surfing with a NetBook a far less limiting, a much more comfortable, and remarkably more efficient experience!Don't worry, I found it sitting on top of a garbage can outside a thrift shop down here about four years ago, it was down and out for the count!
I've also got a slotted Toshiba Portable awaiting the teeth of the Ryoba!
Yes it did, but the beauty of the 2300 was that it was a hybrid machine. A blessing and a curse when it came to the CPU and bus architecture. But, it used the exact same ADB connector that the trackball did. In fact Powerbookguy.com at my encouragement sold a trackball retrograde kit which consisted of a 280c case top with a trackball assembly. All you did was remover the trackpad and replace it with the new lid and trackball which even used the same mounting screws.
I couldn't agree more. I have almost the entire collection of them and a variety of their docks (both Apple and third-party).The design of the whole and its parts has yet to be equalled. Apple's only failing with the Duo was that they intentionally crippled it to prevent it from competing with the desktops. There was absolutely nothing like it on the market at the time or since. Everything about the system was so elegant. The cheap PC port replicators that pass for docking solutions then and today are a pale and pathetic imitator of what the Duo offered. The closest suggestion I have seen since was the rumored iMac form factor which was a screen that allowed a stripped-down, MacBook Air-type notebook to be slid into the side of it, turning it into a full desktop. The current 24" LCD screen is not a bad solution, but does nothing for the MacBook Air, which would be the whole point in my estimation ... plus it is not big enough. Now this new tablet that is rumored to be coming ... that holds massive potential for a dockable Duo form factor. In fact I'd like to stuff that into a Duo case!
[] ]'> [] ]'>
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Can, and will }
8-o Now that is gorgeous.
looks like a toaster oven, like you could peer into that window and see if your tv dinner is ready or not
Powerbook G4 12"
10.9" x 8.6" x 1.18"
Now I know it doesn't meet your spec, jt, and that extra 0.1" could be tricky (lose the optical, rearrange stuff?) but still .... hmmm.
OSX!!!!!! [:O] ]'> PTUI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ubuntuCentricity ONLY!!!!!! > 
} :rambo: 
[] ]'> [] ]'> [)] ]'>
} :rambo: [] ]'> [] ]'> [)] ]'>
Who said it had to run OS X? }
Toshiba Portege A600
1.4GHz Core2Duo, 12.1" WXGA
Dimensions: 286mm(W) x 223mm(D) x 29.9mm(H)
= 11.3" x 8.8" x 1.2"
A little too large without some serious rearrangement, but way cheaper than a Vaio
1.4GHz Core2Duo, 12.1" WXGA
Dimensions: 286mm(W) x 223mm(D) x 29.9mm(H)
= 11.3" x 8.8" x 1.2"
A little too large without some serious rearrangement, but way cheaper than a Vaio
Width may not be a problem! [}] ]'>
For now, all my $ is spoken for, so I think I'll start watching for an appropriate display/cable housed within a far less capable (used/eBay sourced) donor.
That way I can begin the lid reconstruction/re-design/width increase. [] ]'>
How does a WidescreenPowerBookDuo2Hack™, equipped with a 1400's KBD/hacked w/Numeric a/o Function keypad extension & polished metal insert midsection/extension cribbed from the Pismo hacks strike you? [] ]'>
Think: extra width trade-off = real KBD/metric crapload of wide@$$ formatted pixels & DVD player capability! [^]
I've already got tentative plans for a DuoDockStretchHack™! [)] ]'>
Whatcha think, gang? :?:
] ]'>For now, all my $ is spoken for, so I think I'll start watching for an appropriate display/cable housed within a far less capable (used/eBay sourced) donor.
That way I can begin the lid reconstruction/re-design/width increase. [
] ]'>How does a WidescreenPowerBookDuo2Hack™, equipped with a 1400's KBD/hacked w/Numeric a/o Function keypad extension & polished metal insert midsection/extension cribbed from the Pismo hacks strike you? [
] ]'>Think: extra width trade-off = real KBD/metric crapload of wide@$$ formatted pixels & DVD player capability! [^]
I've already got tentative plans for a DuoDockStretchHack™! [
)] ]'>Whatcha think, gang? :?:
You get that laptop LCDs and cables are not just swap'n'go between models, right?
Just how wide are you planning to make this thing?
The 1400 keyboard is not even ADB, just a bare keymatrix. The ADB IC is on the 1400 logicboard.
Oh wait, that's a good thing :?:
Here, let me standardize that for you:
277mm x 216mm x 38mm
On that basis, here's another candidate panel for you
Although that specific listing doesn't say so, the seller offers an AV/VGA input board on other panels for an extra $35. His store also conveniently lists all his panels by size, in one inch increments. You may find other candidates there, in the 11" and 12" categories. I looked in the 8" and couldn't find anything over 800x600.
/ETA/ Thought of another name for the project: The Nuo
I saw my first 12" (nominal) NetBook today and I'm seriously smitten!
http://eeepc.asus.com/global/product1101ha.html
According to their pre-sales tech support, it can be upgraded to 2 MB of RAM! :O
They blew the KBD design, it's almost identical to the Duo's. If they had made it almost edge to edge, like their 10.1" model, it would have been almost Full Sized!
When I save up the $ and the "perfect" 12" NetBook is released, I'm going to grab one! [] ]'>
I'll give you just ONE GUESS where HP_Mini is headed right after I set up ubuntu on the 12" Netbook! }
http://eeepc.asus.com/global/product1101ha.html
According to their pre-sales tech support, it can be upgraded to 2 MB of RAM! :O
They blew the KBD design, it's almost identical to the Duo's. If they had made it almost edge to edge, like their 10.1" model, it would have been almost Full Sized!
When I save up the $ and the "perfect" 12" NetBook is released, I'm going to grab one! [
] ]'>I'll give you just ONE GUESS where HP_Mini is headed right after I set up ubuntu on the 12" Netbook! }