Thread
Where are all the programmers?
feeef, I think small apps like that would be absolutely possible for System 7+. The trick is the network connectivity, but Open Transport acts enough like MacTCP that a lot of things will "just work."
A webkit framework for building webapps upon would be extremely helpful to anyone coming to the platform with network apps in mind.
Barely related - I talked to Tobias and he has released a script to replace the system wide webkit on 10.4 with the updated version used in tenfourkit. With it you can use his updated webkit in other browsers that rely on the system framework such as Sunrise, Nagara and others.
Barely related - I talked to Tobias and he has released a script to replace the system wide webkit on 10.4 with the updated version used in tenfourkit. With it you can use his updated webkit in other browsers that rely on the system framework such as Sunrise, Nagara and others.
You've also got 16 days left if your interested in winning the RetroChallenge, lol
XULRunner says hi.
Yes, either one would work. That said, I've no idea how close either are to a [up-to-date?] usable framework within the Mac OS. (My working knowledge of either ends at "You build webapps on top of them.")
Hm, I'd never seen this thread before. Development on classic systems (Amiga and DOS, primarily, but Mac as well) is something I've wanted to devote more time to for a while now, I've just been caught up in other stuff...
Is there a good getting-started guide for C/C++ programming on Classic MacOS? I know I have some edition of Inside Macintosh saved around here somewhere, but I've yet to read very far into it...
Is there a good getting-started guide for C/C++ programming on Classic MacOS? I know I have some edition of Inside Macintosh saved around here somewhere, but I've yet to read very far into it...
Thanks a lot ClassicHasClass! XULRunner looks cool! I may have a closer look at it later. I have to get more familiar with development tools and system 7 APIs first.
@commodorejohn, personally, I use CodeWarrior pro v1 and I think it is really complete. With PowerPlant, it looks much the same as the first versions of XCode & IB.
If you have Inside Macintosh, have a look in the Macintosh ToolBox documentation. It describes the API that handles the Macintosh GUI. I find it quite tricky to find the class and method names in this kind of docs, but I think I will get used to it!
Unfortunately, it's a bit short for me to do the RetroChallenge but maybe on a future project! I have to learn Open Transport!
@commodorejohn, personally, I use CodeWarrior pro v1 and I think it is really complete. With PowerPlant, it looks much the same as the first versions of XCode & IB.
If you have Inside Macintosh, have a look in the Macintosh ToolBox documentation. It describes the API that handles the Macintosh GUI. I find it quite tricky to find the class and method names in this kind of docs, but I think I will get used to it!
Unfortunately, it's a bit short for me to do the RetroChallenge but maybe on a future project! I have to learn Open Transport!
Well, on System 7, XULRunner has about as much chance of getting off the ground as WebKit (little to none). I think Theos was talking more about options for earlier versions of OS X -- you can use TenFourFox's patches to build a 10.4-compatible XULRunner, for example. Classilla works on OS 8.6-9 because it's a hacked Mozilla 1.3.1 which already worked on OS 9 to begin with. You might be writing your own app-specific renderer for this use case.
@commodorejohn, there are some very good CodeWarrior/PowerPlant books for the classic Mac OS. Dan von Sydow wrote one, but the title escapes me.
@commodorejohn, there are some very good CodeWarrior/PowerPlant books for the classic Mac OS. Dan von Sydow wrote one, but the title escapes me.
Ok! I see!
So the best option for those missing web apps under 7 is to take them out of the browser.
I have just started a Twitter app!
On the CodeWarrior reference CD, I found a PowerPlant example showing how to do HTTP requests. It looks like it's first checking if the system can handle Open Transport or MacTCP and use one of them. The lib is already written so I don't really need to worry about it.
It works well and I used it as a base for my Twitter app.
Thanks a lot for the link Theos911! It's exactly what I needed!
So the best option for those missing web apps under 7 is to take them out of the browser.
I have just started a Twitter app!
On the CodeWarrior reference CD, I found a PowerPlant example showing how to do HTTP requests. It looks like it's first checking if the system can handle Open Transport or MacTCP and use one of them. The lib is already written so I don't really need to worry about it.
It works well and I used it as a base for my Twitter app.
Thanks a lot for the link Theos911! It's exactly what I needed!
Out of browser is probably good, especially if you are targeting 7 where there really isn't an up to date browser to build on anyway.
Hmmm... twitter you say? This project hasn't been updated sine 2009 so twitter's API has probably broken it several times by now, but it is a worthwhile place to look for the tweet sending part.
http://www.retards.org/projects/grackle68k/
http://www.retards.org/projects/grackle68k/files/
You could probably drop the dev a line and get a hold of some source code.
Hmmm... twitter you say? This project hasn't been updated sine 2009 so twitter's API has probably broken it several times by now, but it is a worthwhile place to look for the tweet sending part.
http://www.retards.org/projects/grackle68k/
http://www.retards.org/projects/grackle68k/files/
You could probably drop the dev a line and get a hold of some source code.
Are you sure? A search for the name results in a few VHS tapes on Amazon
I've been looking for good CodeWarrior books, but I don't know which one to buy. Do you remember anything else?
Foundations of Mac Programming by Dan Parks Sydow? Perhaps the von came from the actor Max von Sydow?
Ah, yeah. That's the one I have in my wish list! Glad to know it seems to be all right 
No, I was thinking of the seminal tome, "King Osiric Teaches Mac Programming To Barbarians." :I
feeef, what version of CW is this?
Just found this -- it's incredible and I *believe* he's a member here.
https://sites.google.com/site/chuzzum/macintosh-c-programming-guide
My problem wasn't that I didnt want to program for Classic MacOS (I really really really do) but there weren't enough resources/books to find ... until now.
So yeah i'll at the very least be making tic-tac-toe for MacOS. (LOL)
https://sites.google.com/site/chuzzum/macintosh-c-programming-guide
My problem wasn't that I didnt want to program for Classic MacOS (I really really really do) but there weren't enough resources/books to find ... until now.
So yeah i'll at the very least be making tic-tac-toe for MacOS. (LOL)
ClassicHasClass, I use CodeWarrior Pro 1. It has the IDE v 2.0. Is it good enough? It is the only one version I have here.
Grackle68k is just a tweet sender. I plan to do a read/write tweets apps. I used to work in an agency, doing this kind of connected apps for mobile devices so I have (more or less) the concept in mind.
The first thing I will do actually, is a JSON parser so it can be used in many other apps. I will try to make it as light and fast as possible. If it's too heavy on some requests for our older machines, I will try to think of something else like a web proxy that generates lighter data. I will see how it goes!
Grackle68k is just a tweet sender. I plan to do a read/write tweets apps. I used to work in an agency, doing this kind of connected apps for mobile devices so I have (more or less) the concept in mind.
The first thing I will do actually, is a JSON parser so it can be used in many other apps. I will try to make it as light and fast as possible. If it's too heavy on some requests for our older machines, I will try to think of something else like a web proxy that generates lighter data. I will see how it goes!
No, it should be fine for the purposes you need. Note that Twitter is moving to a full OAuth system for API 1.1, so you will need to be able to handle that as well. For TTYtter, for example, I had to implement HMAC-SHA-1 signatures, and your network library will require SSL.
Facebook chat?
Facebook Chat is a good idea too!
You are right ClassicHasClass! I didn't think about OAuth. I don't know about implementing SSL apps under 7 but I will have a look at it.
You know, before doing any app, I will actually build a few libs to make things easier... and to give other people some tools to develop modern connected apps for System 7! I will do what I can, I am not an expert, but I think it's a good goal!
The JSON lib is a start and it's going forward. As soon as I have a first working version, I will add it on github for sharing (I have an account there). It will be a C++ CW pro 1 project but the files should only rely on the default C++ API and be easy to build on any platform.
You are right ClassicHasClass! I didn't think about OAuth. I don't know about implementing SSL apps under 7 but I will have a look at it.
You know, before doing any app, I will actually build a few libs to make things easier... and to give other people some tools to develop modern connected apps for System 7!
I will do what I can, I am not an expert, but I think it's a good goal!The JSON lib is a start and it's going forward. As soon as I have a first working version, I will add it on github for sharing (I have an account there). It will be a C++ CW pro 1 project but the files should only rely on the default C++ API and be easy to build on any platform.
We need a Sys7 Jabber client with SSL support then.
I also think we need easy-to-use MODERN (no basic, basic is always ew - along the lines of Python, Java, C#, Perl, Ruby, and Haskell for the functional hipsters, some we have ancient versions of - Java/C# before foreach and generics is no fun at all) language that works and works well with classic Mac OS. Once we get that, it will lower the gap.
The Amiga folks can get anything done with their Amigas and their crazy projects, but that's just crazy Germans in denial making new stuff for their little Miggies.
Oh, laugh if you want, but our time will come, my friend. Our time will come...
Perl 5 works just fine with System 7 and can make very credible GUI apps. The main problem is distribution of the runtime.
That said, FutureBASIC and CodeWarrior are still my preferred Classic dev environments.
That said, FutureBASIC and CodeWarrior are still my preferred Classic dev environments.
6502 NOW!
I wouldn't mind writing some toy programs for Classic Mac OS, last time I found all the parts of MPW, I could not figure out how to compile anything 
.
.OpenSSL still has classic MacOS code in its tree. The original author did his work with CW Pro 5, so it may take a bit of work to get it to work with CW Pro 1. I was able to make 0.9.6m build and work with CW Pro 7.1 but it took updating the project file to add and remove files that had changed since the project file was created.
I wanted to build newer versions but ran out of time. IIRC whatever the latest 0.9.5 revision is compiled fairly easily. One note, though: I had tons of problems at first that turned out to be because StuffIt was messing up the CR/LF conversions when extracting the tar file. Using SUNtar it compiled almost out of the box.
I've been working a bit more on the SSL issue. I'm working on a port of PolarSSL in CW Pro 1. I have a few more interfaces to adapt to native MacOS calls, including the rather important sockets code. There's also a bit of PPC assembly code that I need to adapt to Metrowerks' syntax. But what's there now compiles and runs tests successfully.
I was able to build the library pretty much as-is using CW Pro 7 with GUSI, the fantastic UNIX compatibility library. But that apparently only works with CW Pro 5, 6 and 7. I only have 7 and 1 so if I want to build anything for 68k I have to stick with 1. I should probably note, though, that the performance is already mediocre on a G4, so I can't imagine how bad it'll be on a 68k.
I'll be posting all of this on Github or something when I'm a bit further along.
I was able to build the library pretty much as-is using CW Pro 7 with GUSI, the fantastic UNIX compatibility library. But that apparently only works with CW Pro 5, 6 and 7. I only have 7 and 1 so if I want to build anything for 68k I have to stick with 1. I should probably note, though, that the performance is already mediocre on a G4, so I can't imagine how bad it'll be on a 68k.
I'll be posting all of this on Github or something when I'm a bit further along.
That's some really good work you did there leitec! Thanks for the research!
I am searching CW Pro 5 but can't find it anywhere so I think I will keep working with CW Pro 1. I want to do a dynamic array underCw Pro 1 but always have a syntax error when using "vector arr;" if you are familiar with the software, do you know how to do it leitec?
Also, I have been working for a company that made connected apps for J2ME mobile phones. A good workaround we used to handle really small resources is to make a web proxy that does the work for you. I remember we had security issues with sending passwords over the normal HTTP connexion but don't remember exactly how we worked that out. I will investigate.
I am searching CW Pro 5 but can't find it anywhere so I think I will keep working with CW Pro 1. I want to do a dynamic array underCw Pro 1 but always have a syntax error when using "vector arr;" if you are familiar with the software, do you know how to do it leitec?
Also, I have been working for a company that made connected apps for J2ME mobile phones. A good workaround we used to handle really small resources is to make a web proxy that does the work for you. I remember we had security issues with sending passwords over the normal HTTP connexion but don't remember exactly how we worked that out. I will investigate.
You're welcome!
I am not very familiar with C++, but I did try to figure that out today. The C/C++ compiler manual and MSL reference both indicate that that is possible, but testing showed otherwise. I finally found the answer in the release notes. If you look at vector.h, the part that defines a default allocator is not active (#ifdef MSIPL_DEF_TEMPARG), so you have to define it manually. One of the examples in the release notes has it as:
vector > v;
The tricky part is that the space between the two >'s is significant, which I suppose has to do with the fact that >> is an operator in C++. If you look at the inactive default allocator thing in vector.h, it's there too:
template >
I tried with
vector > arr;
and it worked.
I am not very familiar with C++, but I did try to figure that out today. The C/C++ compiler manual and MSL reference both indicate that that is possible, but testing showed otherwise. I finally found the answer in the release notes. If you look at vector.h, the part that defines a default allocator is not active (#ifdef MSIPL_DEF_TEMPARG), so you have to define it manually. One of the examples in the release notes has it as:
vector > v;
The tricky part is that the space between the two >'s is significant, which I suppose has to do with the fact that >> is an operator in C++. If you look at the inactive default allocator thing in vector.h, it's there too:
template >
I tried with
vector > arr;
and it worked.
leitec, you're a wizard! it works!! Thank you so much! I will be able to complete my JSON lib!
Thanks for the link Bunsen! it looks really interesting indeed!
Thanks for the link Bunsen! it looks really interesting indeed!