Thread
JB Weld + broken TiBook hinge = success
So I came back to the Floodgap Orbiting HQ after visiting the folks, took out my TiBook/867 and promptly dropped it on the floor, right hinge down. I picked it up and the right hinge stayed on the floor, with a nice hole in the display where it had attached, stretching the two halves of the display. Because this is a family board, I will refrain from the
comments made by me at that time.
A quick test showed the display was undamaged internally, but it was obviously unbalanced.
The problem is that the rotating element, which was the one that came off the hinge, is under a lot of tension when the top opens and closes. This should be of little surprise to anyone who has tried to repair them before or used the kits to fix the tension so they stop stripping and cracking.
My first attempt was to use (what I thought was) a sufficiently strong Loctite resin epoxy. After 24 hours of cure, it successfully opened, apparently intact. I closed it and the hinge tore out of the display again. Neighbours learned a few new words.
A second attempt with a different slower-set epoxy, plus some cyanoacrylate to improve adhesion, similarly resulted in lots of cussing.
The third attempt was with JB Weld, which is a metal-reinforced epoxy. I'd used this before to repair a broken Commodore SX-64 handle and it is almost the last word in high strength epoxies (ignore the people saying "Devcon B" in the back, that stuff smells like hell), but I was a little hesitant here because this was a one-way trip; you can't get it off with anything short of a jackhammer. I mixed up a quantity, let it stand for an hour or so, and then scooped a bit into the display to mate with the broken hinge piece, sculpted a "restraining sandwich" around it, and then smoothed the polymer around the sides of the wounded display to hold it together. To prevent it from getting onto the bottom half and fusing the laptop closed, I put a paper towel between the halves (in retrospect polyurethane sheeting would probably have been a better idea), and made sure to scrape away weld compound from the rotating portion of the hinge to prevent it from polymerizing that together too. The first attempts with the resin epoxy actually proved advantageous as they had partially penetrated the display and sealed it internally, safely stopping the JB Weld slurry from entering the LCD or backlight. I let this stand for 24 hours, and here is the result:
http://www.floodgap.com/iv/931
This opens and closes like a charm. No cracks!
After I put it together, I discovered that the impact had introduced a slight bend in the display so it's a touch cockeyed, and it needs "encouragement" to latch. Not much I can do about that, but the point is, it works and I can use the Book again. So if you've whacked your TiBook's hinges and you feel like a challenge, JB Weld is your compound. Just don't expect it to look pretty.
A quick test showed the display was undamaged internally, but it was obviously unbalanced.
The problem is that the rotating element, which was the one that came off the hinge, is under a lot of tension when the top opens and closes. This should be of little surprise to anyone who has tried to repair them before or used the kits to fix the tension so they stop stripping and cracking.
My first attempt was to use (what I thought was) a sufficiently strong Loctite resin epoxy. After 24 hours of cure, it successfully opened, apparently intact. I closed it and the hinge tore out of the display again. Neighbours learned a few new words.
A second attempt with a different slower-set epoxy, plus some cyanoacrylate to improve adhesion, similarly resulted in lots of cussing.
The third attempt was with JB Weld, which is a metal-reinforced epoxy. I'd used this before to repair a broken Commodore SX-64 handle and it is almost the last word in high strength epoxies (ignore the people saying "Devcon B" in the back, that stuff smells like hell), but I was a little hesitant here because this was a one-way trip; you can't get it off with anything short of a jackhammer. I mixed up a quantity, let it stand for an hour or so, and then scooped a bit into the display to mate with the broken hinge piece, sculpted a "restraining sandwich" around it, and then smoothed the polymer around the sides of the wounded display to hold it together. To prevent it from getting onto the bottom half and fusing the laptop closed, I put a paper towel between the halves (in retrospect polyurethane sheeting would probably have been a better idea), and made sure to scrape away weld compound from the rotating portion of the hinge to prevent it from polymerizing that together too. The first attempts with the resin epoxy actually proved advantageous as they had partially penetrated the display and sealed it internally, safely stopping the JB Weld slurry from entering the LCD or backlight. I let this stand for 24 hours, and here is the result:
http://www.floodgap.com/iv/931
This opens and closes like a charm. No cracks!
After I put it together, I discovered that the impact had introduced a slight bend in the display so it's a touch cockeyed, and it needs "encouragement" to latch. Not much I can do about that, but the point is, it works and I can use the Book again. So if you've whacked your TiBook's hinges and you feel like a challenge, JB Weld is your compound. Just don't expect it to look pretty.
Not bad.
I was going to reply with "why don't you just replace part for part?", but then I went to ifixit.com, saw the prices and just gulped. You would be looking at replacing the top and bottom cases ($150-$200 and $50-$80), clutch cover ($4.95), and left & right hinge mounts ($19.95 each). So altogether you'd be looking at close to $305 to fix it all. But you ended up fixing your problem for probably about $5-$10 using the JB Weld; I hope it lasts a long time. Keep us posted to see how long it lasts.
73s de Phreakout. :rambo:
I was going to reply with "why don't you just replace part for part?", but then I went to ifixit.com, saw the prices and just gulped. You would be looking at replacing the top and bottom cases ($150-$200 and $50-$80), clutch cover ($4.95), and left & right hinge mounts ($19.95 each). So altogether you'd be looking at close to $305 to fix it all. But you ended up fixing your problem for probably about $5-$10 using the JB Weld; I hope it lasts a long time. Keep us posted to see how long it lasts.
73s de Phreakout. :rambo:
TiBook hinges are ridiculously expensive - I don't really know how they became so pricey!
Nice work, and good to see you've been liberal in your application of JB Weld; not pretty but it has to be that way. I'm also a fan of the stuff, having essentially been the key in helping me to create my G5-case Hackintosh. It also doesn't stink or do many nasty things when you get it on your hands.
JB
Nice work, and good to see you've been liberal in your application of JB Weld; not pretty but it has to be that way. I'm also a fan of the stuff, having essentially been the key in helping me to create my G5-case Hackintosh. It also doesn't stink or do many nasty things when you get it on your hands.
JB
Yeah, the parts cost was just unbelievable when I was trying to decide what I wanted to do. For not much more I could've bought a whole "new" unit, and kept this one for spare parts. As it was, the whole shooting match cost me maybe $30 at Home Despot with the two other failed attempts, and a couple hours' time forming it and making sure the compound stayed where it was put.
Truly, JB Weld certainly stinks much less than some of the more ... aromatic high-strength epoxies. I learned from my previous repairs with it that you need to use a lot of it to get a satisfactory hold, and to mix it thoroughly or the hardener doesn't work right, leaving a brittle join. Serendipitously, it does mostly match the colour, and another nice property is it does not expand during the drying process, unlike some other polymer adhesives. What you leave is what you get. And I agree it's much less dangerous than some other ones to handle; it just washes off with soap as long as it's not set.
Truly, JB Weld certainly stinks much less than some of the more ... aromatic high-strength epoxies. I learned from my previous repairs with it that you need to use a lot of it to get a satisfactory hold, and to mix it thoroughly or the hardener doesn't work right, leaving a brittle join. Serendipitously, it does mostly match the colour, and another nice property is it does not expand during the drying process, unlike some other polymer adhesives. What you leave is what you get. And I agree it's much less dangerous than some other ones to handle; it just washes off with soap as long as it's not set.
It would be good to know how it holds up in the longer term, since, as JB Weld is so cheap and so readily available, it might then become the tool of choice for certain repairs. And it's arguably a better colour for many of our purposes than are other epoxies.
1 drop of model paint and you can make any epoxy any color, good luck with that repair, I hope it holds up
I did this with mine a year or so back (with JB Weld) and actually reinforced it much more than you did and it still didn't last very long. Opened it up one day and SNAP.
might I suggest some small wood screws for the future
nah it will hold up for a while if your mindful of it, once it goes snap then drive some "piano hinge" screws into it }
nah it will hold up for a while if your mindful of it, once it goes snap then drive some "piano hinge" screws into it }
bizzle, how long did it last? Also, what was the extent of the damage in your case?
I think it lasted a few months. It was just a broken hinge like yours.
Interesting. Well, time will tell then.
Is JB Weld the strongest solid epoxy you guys would recommend that doesn't produce nauseating fumes?
A project I'm working on requires me to mate two flat brushed metal surfaces (one surface is stainless steel, the other is aluminum) to one another and I need something that will give me the strongest bond possible. The best idea I could come up with was solid epoxy, but I wasn't sure which one to use that won't produce fumes that will incapacitate me and my cat/dog as it cures.
A project I'm working on requires me to mate two flat brushed metal surfaces (one surface is stainless steel, the other is aluminum) to one another and I need something that will give me the strongest bond possible. The best idea I could come up with was solid epoxy, but I wasn't sure which one to use that won't produce fumes that will incapacitate me and my cat/dog as it cures.
Invest in a fan and a window that opens?
*shrug*
*shrug*
Take them apart and braze them together (a torch, some solder, and flux).
I had the same idea, but I'm something of a spaz, so using a torch would most likely end with either me in a burn ward, or the house burning to the ground.
Any other helpful opinions re: solid expoxy for metal/metal bonding? I'm interested in any reasonable ideas/suggestions/resources/experiences people have had, etc...
Any other helpful opinions re: solid expoxy for metal/metal bonding? I'm interested in any reasonable ideas/suggestions/resources/experiences people have had, etc...
its difficult enough to non "weld" two flat surfaces, the requirement of no fumes greatly complicates things, if its "just for looks" get contact cement
what is the reason behind this "need"
what is the reason behind this "need"
No, it's not for looks, it's very much for function.
I was tasked with this after an armature in the lab spontaneously ripped itself loose from the bracket onto which it was mounted, destroying about $300 of equipment, as well as trashing the armature. The steel screws tore the threads right out of the aluminum bracket when the failure occurred. No, we hadn't exceeded the weight limit for the armature nor the bracket, it was well within tolerances. I spoke to some engineers at the company that makes the bracket as well as the armature and they couldn't explain why it happened. Their best suggestion was to augment the screws with a solid epoxy at the point where the steel attachment plate for the armature meets the aluminum mounting bracket.
I'm working on this at home since we really don't have any extra space to spare at the lab (as our budget shrinks so does our available square footage). As such, I want to use the strongest possible solid epoxy that won't produce fumes which will gas me or my animals. However, if overwhelming toxic fumes can't reasonably be avoided without significantly compromising the strength of the epoxy that can be used I am prepared to let the epoxy cure on my screened-in back porch and just not go out there for however long it takes for the fumes to dissipate.
I'm open to suggestions that don't involve solid epoxy, I'm been going with this as I haven't been able to come up with anything else. My only constraints are that it can't involve welding nor substitution of the bracket or the attachment plate.
Any useful insight is greatly appreciated.
I was tasked with this after an armature in the lab spontaneously ripped itself loose from the bracket onto which it was mounted, destroying about $300 of equipment, as well as trashing the armature. The steel screws tore the threads right out of the aluminum bracket when the failure occurred. No, we hadn't exceeded the weight limit for the armature nor the bracket, it was well within tolerances. I spoke to some engineers at the company that makes the bracket as well as the armature and they couldn't explain why it happened. Their best suggestion was to augment the screws with a solid epoxy at the point where the steel attachment plate for the armature meets the aluminum mounting bracket.
I'm working on this at home since we really don't have any extra space to spare at the lab (as our budget shrinks so does our available square footage). As such, I want to use the strongest possible solid epoxy that won't produce fumes which will gas me or my animals. However, if overwhelming toxic fumes can't reasonably be avoided without significantly compromising the strength of the epoxy that can be used I am prepared to let the epoxy cure on my screened-in back porch and just not go out there for however long it takes for the fumes to dissipate.
I'm open to suggestions that don't involve solid epoxy, I'm been going with this as I haven't been able to come up with anything else. My only constraints are that it can't involve welding nor substitution of the bracket or the attachment plate.
Any useful insight is greatly appreciated.
well ... and just off the cuff, and I have no Idea of material left, or beginning with, or damage done, and the fact that screws were tried, use machine screws and aggressive lock washers and thread locker under heavy torque for the material
though I barley make the connection to flood patching a hinge on a macbook
though I barley make the connection to flood patching a hinge on a macbook
JB Weld does not make much in the way of fumes, but it does make a bit.
Devcon epoxies are excellent also, but they stink like hell.
Devcon epoxies are excellent also, but they stink like hell.
You can't weld aluminum to steel, so solder, braze, weld, etc are no go. If both surfaces are a bit rough, brushed rather than polished shiny, I'd probably try a urethane-based glue in addition to nuts and bolts. Give it a couple of days to dry, since it drys by solvent evaporation, and the metal will block that except at the edges. A thin glue layer will be better than a thick one, and mechanical fasteners will be most effective around the edges since if the glue fails, it will be by peeling rather than sliding or straight pulling.
Urethane based glue? What is the consistency like? Any particular brands?
Followup, since longevity of the weld had been questioned: TiBook out tonight while I did some cosmetic restoration and testing. Hinge is just fine.
Congratulations, Cameron!
I love my hand-me-down TiBook but it needs to be babied, I can picture myself making a lifetime buy of TiBook DVI laptops and parts so that I can be always assured of having one that works.
Why the hinges are so costly is that broken ones are a very common problem, so there is a demand for these. Also dinged, dented, and peeling cases... People who love these machines have an uphill battle maintaining them. The aluminum G4s appear to be much more durable, but my 1GHz Ti is the final OS 9 laptop so it stays. If my hinges went I would probably look for a mechanical solution, bolt some kind of new hinges on and spoil its svelte profile.
I love my hand-me-down TiBook but it needs to be babied, I can picture myself making a lifetime buy of TiBook DVI laptops and parts so that I can be always assured of having one that works.
Why the hinges are so costly is that broken ones are a very common problem, so there is a demand for these. Also dinged, dented, and peeling cases... People who love these machines have an uphill battle maintaining them. The aluminum G4s appear to be much more durable, but my 1GHz Ti is the final OS 9 laptop so it stays. If my hinges went I would probably look for a mechanical solution, bolt some kind of new hinges on and spoil its svelte profile.
So exactly how do you avoid "breaking" these hinges? mine arnt broke, but i dont want them broke either.
Well, for one thing, don't drop them like I did
Well, yea, thats law number 1 for anything. hehe.
Especially don't drop them with the LCD open. I may as well have thrown mine across the room (which I could well have done, worst computer i've ever owned).
Seems that the biggest issue is hinge over-tension leading to failure. Best way to test for this is to place the machine on a desk or bench, and open the LCD without holding the base of the machine down. If the base of the machine lifts, they're over-tensioned.
I believe some retailers still stock what was commonly known as the TiGlide kit, which pretty much consisted of a metal conditioner and thin oil, a black stick, torx wrenches, display shims and a spanner to adjust the hinge tension. I'm not sure what international retailers stock it, but I know MacFixit Australia still sells the kit for $34.00 AUD. The kit should extend the life of the Titanium PowerBook hinges significantly.
Failing that... bit of WD40 in the hinges? That's what I did but as you know, mine didn't exactly meet the most fortunate ending so... yeah.
Seems that the biggest issue is hinge over-tension leading to failure. Best way to test for this is to place the machine on a desk or bench, and open the LCD without holding the base of the machine down. If the base of the machine lifts, they're over-tensioned.
I believe some retailers still stock what was commonly known as the TiGlide kit, which pretty much consisted of a metal conditioner and thin oil, a black stick, torx wrenches, display shims and a spanner to adjust the hinge tension. I'm not sure what international retailers stock it, but I know MacFixit Australia still sells the kit for $34.00 AUD. The kit should extend the life of the Titanium PowerBook hinges significantly.
Failing that... bit of WD40 in the hinges? That's what I did but as you know, mine didn't exactly meet the most fortunate ending so... yeah.
Alone that will make them worse, you would need to follow up with real lubricant once the wd-40 evaporated.
What MacJunky said. WD-40 isn't a lubricant, it's a water displacer (and it's volatile to boot).
WD40 makes for a decent enough solution for this purpose if the display assembly doesn't open and close relatively freely. Partially due to this reason:
Eventually I found a synthetic anti-seize oil called Nulon L90 used in the manufacturing of engines that worked relatively well, and so it should, considering it's designed to free up camshafts rotating at speeds of up to 3500rpm for a typical 7000rpm redline engine. Downside was the thickness but considering only a fraction of the applied amount made it to the inside of the clutch assembly, it worked extremely well for the purpose.
I'm not sure if i'd recommend it again though based on the price and the lack of any long-term testing when used on notebook hinges.
In a nutshell, it's an oil that can get into tight spots. Like a notebook hinge. It's a decent enough start when it comes to the relatively difficult task of freeing up tension in the hinge assembly.
Eventually I found a synthetic anti-seize oil called Nulon L90 used in the manufacturing of engines that worked relatively well, and so it should, considering it's designed to free up camshafts rotating at speeds of up to 3500rpm for a typical 7000rpm redline engine. Downside was the thickness but considering only a fraction of the applied amount made it to the inside of the clutch assembly, it worked extremely well for the purpose.
I'm not sure if i'd recommend it again though based on the price and the lack of any long-term testing when used on notebook hinges.