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Smallest (physical size) Machine to Run 7.6.1?
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Smallest (physical size) Machine to Run 7.6.1?
It's Bunsen.
http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/documentation/Hardware/hardware2.htmlAnyone have the Apple Hardware Developer Note for either or both machines? I can't find that useful stuff for legacy machines on Apple's *^&$%^&* website any more. They used to have a very nice page with all the machines listed over in the Developer section. I know I've been to that page in the last five years.
Oops. My apologies. I was in quite the hurry when I posted that. Of course I know it's not Benson.It's Bunsen.
Thank you.http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/documentation/Hardware/hardware2.htmlAnyone have the Apple Hardware Developer Note for either or both machines?
Any way of reaching that page through Apple's public website or must one simply know the URL ahead of time?
http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/
Has links to all the legacy developer material Apple still have on it's website.
Has links to all the legacy developer material Apple still have on it's website.
That page never finishes loading in my browser (Firefox).http://developer.apple.com/legacy/mac/library/Has links to all the legacy developer material Apple still have on it's website.
I thought I'd post an update. If I get any further than this update (I.e. start actual work, instead of just buying stuff) , it'll probably be in a new thread over in Hacks.
I decided on the 5500/6500 logic board. It is small enough to fit in a Mini-ITX case. It has the disadvantages of limited CPU power (unless I can find an L2 G3 upgrade--very rare now days), limited RAM capacity (128MB), only two PCI slots (unless I build an adapter board for the COMM II slot), and no built-in Ethernet. It's advantages are its size, built-in video, and that it is powerful enough.
Here's the case I plan to use: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjI0MA==
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129081
It's actually a little cheaper at Amazon, but the pictures are better at Newegg.
There are two other variations of this case with external power supplies rather than internal, and depending on fit, I may need to go to that. But the front bezel on this version looks a little nicer to my eye.
I ended up buying a 6500/300 on Ebay. I think it was about $60 with shipping. I'll add a slot loading DVD drive and some kind of hard drive. The case only supports 2.5" drives. I have my eye on the last of the WD 320GB PATA drives, but that'd be silly in what's meant to be a legacy 7.6.1 machine. Perhaps I'll get the WD 320 GB PATA 2.5" drive and put it in an AppleTV or my G4 Mini and then put the drive from that machine in this one.
To actually do the project, I'll need to:
1) Map out the front edge connector using the 6500's wiring harness.
2) Desolder the logic board edge connector. I'll start by doing this on the 5500/225 board I have on hand. Experiment on the weaker board first.
3) Provide a power supply and switch and LED harness, preferably with a molex connector which will mate with an ATX power supply connector.
4) (Optional) I'll probably connect a cable to the edge connector's IDE bus, so if my PCI card is on the fritz, I have another way of connecting a drive. (There's an external SCSI connector and I don't need any internal SCSI devices so I won't need to wire up for SCSI.)
5) See if it will all fit in the case and possibly do some sheet metal surgery. Boy, I hope there isn't a spoiler in there. At a minimum, I think I'll have to amputate the rear panel and replace it. I just hope there isn't some internal sheet metal component that interferes with some protuberance from the logic board.
6) Install an Acard 6280 or 6880 to provide ATA, and a RealTek 8169 based gigabit ethernet card. Some day, I'd like to build an adapter for the Comm II slot to turn it into a PCI slot. Then I'll move the Acard ATA card there (doesn't need an external connector) and put a Radeon 7000 in the regular PCI slot.
So that's my rather hare brained plan to keep a machine around to run 7.6.1 after I switch from my 9500 clone to an MDD, and to have the legacy machine not take up much space.
The nice thing is that if I later go to an Intel OSX machine, I will still be able to run 9.1 on this compact machine I'm building.
I decided on the 5500/6500 logic board. It is small enough to fit in a Mini-ITX case. It has the disadvantages of limited CPU power (unless I can find an L2 G3 upgrade--very rare now days), limited RAM capacity (128MB), only two PCI slots (unless I build an adapter board for the COMM II slot), and no built-in Ethernet. It's advantages are its size, built-in video, and that it is powerful enough.
Here's the case I plan to use: http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=MjI0MA==
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129081
It's actually a little cheaper at Amazon, but the pictures are better at Newegg.
There are two other variations of this case with external power supplies rather than internal, and depending on fit, I may need to go to that. But the front bezel on this version looks a little nicer to my eye.
I ended up buying a 6500/300 on Ebay. I think it was about $60 with shipping. I'll add a slot loading DVD drive and some kind of hard drive. The case only supports 2.5" drives. I have my eye on the last of the WD 320GB PATA drives, but that'd be silly in what's meant to be a legacy 7.6.1 machine. Perhaps I'll get the WD 320 GB PATA 2.5" drive and put it in an AppleTV or my G4 Mini and then put the drive from that machine in this one.
To actually do the project, I'll need to:
1) Map out the front edge connector using the 6500's wiring harness.
2) Desolder the logic board edge connector. I'll start by doing this on the 5500/225 board I have on hand. Experiment on the weaker board first.
3) Provide a power supply and switch and LED harness, preferably with a molex connector which will mate with an ATX power supply connector.
4) (Optional) I'll probably connect a cable to the edge connector's IDE bus, so if my PCI card is on the fritz, I have another way of connecting a drive. (There's an external SCSI connector and I don't need any internal SCSI devices so I won't need to wire up for SCSI.)
5) See if it will all fit in the case and possibly do some sheet metal surgery. Boy, I hope there isn't a spoiler in there. At a minimum, I think I'll have to amputate the rear panel and replace it. I just hope there isn't some internal sheet metal component that interferes with some protuberance from the logic board.
6) Install an Acard 6280 or 6880 to provide ATA, and a RealTek 8169 based gigabit ethernet card. Some day, I'd like to build an adapter for the Comm II slot to turn it into a PCI slot. Then I'll move the Acard ATA card there (doesn't need an external connector) and put a Radeon 7000 in the regular PCI slot.
So that's my rather hare brained plan to keep a machine around to run 7.6.1 after I switch from my 9500 clone to an MDD, and to have the legacy machine not take up much space.
The nice thing is that if I later go to an Intel OSX machine, I will still be able to run 9.1 on this compact machine I'm building.
This is the wiring diagram I used to adapt a 6500 motherboard to a Color Classic
http://homepage2.nifty.com/frogeye/connector.html
http://homepage2.nifty.com/frogeye/connector.html
How about a Color Classic with the LC575 upgrade? That would be a fairly handy machine, and one of the better 68K ones too. Not to mention, small in size.
For a CC, a 575 is quite an upgrade but if you do a 6500, you can also install a G3 card. Even without the G3 card a 300mhz 603e is pretty fast. If I was using it more I'd try soldering the missing RAM chips onto the motherboard. But as is 8mb more isn't that important
I hadn't even seen your post! Must be a popular thought!
Thank you, Wayne. That will be very helpful.
What, what what!?! There's a position to install another 8 MB on the logic board?if you do a 6500, you can also install a G3 card. Even without the G3 card a 300mhz 603e is pretty fast. If I was using it more I'd try soldering the missing RAM chips onto the motherboard. But as is 8mb more isn't that important
That implies circuitry which will be capable of handling at least 32 MB more, if not 64 MB. Of course, I don't know what the memory map limit is.
Do you have a link to information about this missing 8 MB?
It's crazy that the thing has all 12 address lines and is capable of 12 X 10 (32 MB/bank) and 11 X 11 (also 32MB/bank) but not 12 X 12 (128MB/bank) or even 12 X 11 (64MB/bank) addressing.
A 6400 has 8mb soldered onto the motherboard. There isn't any soldered onto the 6500 motherboard but the solder pads are there. I'm assuming that if you solder on 8mb that the maximum RAM will be 136mb like the 6400
Ah, I see the pads. Must use 16 bit wide DRAM, which has got to be hard to come by. It suggests an interesting hack, though. The data lines and address lines are going to be common from DIMM to DIMM to soldered-down-RAM. The only distinct signals are going to be amongst the RAS, CAS and/or Bank(0) signal.
So, if I sort that out, install a 128 MB DIMM in one of the DIMM sockets, cut the distinct traces to one bank of 64MB on the DIMM and wire those traces to the corresponding signals on the soldered-down-RAM pads, then, in theory, one should get at least another 32 MB of memory and maybe another...
Oh, I need to go read the Hardware Developer Note again. That may not work at all, at all. I think the machine already does two banked RAM but just won't address more than 32 MB per bank. So that would shoot down my clever idea.
On another front, when you buy stuff on Ebay, don't wait four months to open it. I finally unpacked my PM6500/300 tonight. It's a 250MHz. Stinkin' Ebay sellers.
In his defense, I think it was careless ignorance, rather than intentional fraud, but the fellow had it listed as 330MHz at first. I emailed him, pointed out that didn't exist, he changed it to 300MHz. The jerk could have just plugged the machine in with a monitor attached. Or pulled the logic board. There's a label right there. Sigh. I guess 50MHz is not that big a difference, and I didn't pay a lot for the thing, but it's irritating.
Time to see if it's too late to leave feedback....
So, if I sort that out, install a 128 MB DIMM in one of the DIMM sockets, cut the distinct traces to one bank of 64MB on the DIMM and wire those traces to the corresponding signals on the soldered-down-RAM pads, then, in theory, one should get at least another 32 MB of memory and maybe another...
Oh, I need to go read the Hardware Developer Note again. That may not work at all, at all. I think the machine already does two banked RAM but just won't address more than 32 MB per bank. So that would shoot down my clever idea.
On another front, when you buy stuff on Ebay, don't wait four months to open it. I finally unpacked my PM6500/300 tonight. It's a 250MHz. Stinkin' Ebay sellers.
In his defense, I think it was careless ignorance, rather than intentional fraud, but the fellow had it listed as 330MHz at first. I emailed him, pointed out that didn't exist, he changed it to 300MHz. The jerk could have just plugged the machine in with a monitor attached. Or pulled the logic board. There's a label right there. Sigh. I guess 50MHz is not that big a difference, and I didn't pay a lot for the thing, but it's irritating.
Time to see if it's too late to leave feedback....
Any updates? I find this a mighty interseting project
Nope, just a little more stuff that I've bought. But buying stuff isn't doing the project. When I actually get going, I'll post over in the Hacks forum and maybe link from here.Any updates? I find this a mighty interseting project
I picked up a pair of 64MB EDO DIMMs from OEMPCWorld or OEMPCmemory or something like that. $20 each, whcih isn't too bad these days and shipping was free. I found a 32MB EDO DIMM in my memory box. So if I try to add more memory to the logic board, I can use either that DIMM or the chips from it. The maximum memory per bank is 32MB in the 6500.
I got the 320GB PATA drive to put in my Mac Mini which will free up its drive for this project. Although I may bump the Mini's drive to the AppleTV and use the ATV drive here. IIRC, they're 160GB and 40GB respectively.
Still, I haven't started actually doing the work, other than preliminary looking at Apple documention.
According to lowendmac, a Mac Classic II can (Barely) run 7.6.1. However, you would be pushing the machine to the limit.
The logic board in the Classic II is INCREDIBLY small. I held one in my hand and I could not believe that I was basically holding a fully-functional Macintosh. It is much smaller than a 5xx Mac logic board.