Thread
Best all-round Apple CRT monitor?
Hi,
I'm doing an overhaul of my 68K Macs at present, and under the house found an AppleVision 1710 monitor - a notorious model famed for high failure rate. This is the one with the pass-through ADB and can be adjusted under MacOS. I thought it was dead and just about to chuck it, but realised it only turns on ("gonk!") when it receives a video signal - and it works fine! There is a slight purple tinge, but I believe this can be fixed with some resoldering.
So it got me thinking if I should just hold onto the 1710 - which may die, or keep a look out for another good all-rounder that isn't too big, but reliable. I've also a nice white 15" LG LCD which is what I generally perch on top of Macs to use.
What would others recommend - what's your idea of Apple's best CRT monitor for use with various Macs
JB
I'm doing an overhaul of my 68K Macs at present, and under the house found an AppleVision 1710 monitor - a notorious model famed for high failure rate. This is the one with the pass-through ADB and can be adjusted under MacOS. I thought it was dead and just about to chuck it, but realised it only turns on ("gonk!") when it receives a video signal - and it works fine! There is a slight purple tinge, but I believe this can be fixed with some resoldering.
So it got me thinking if I should just hold onto the 1710 - which may die, or keep a look out for another good all-rounder that isn't too big, but reliable. I've also a nice white 15" LG LCD which is what I generally perch on top of Macs to use.
What would others recommend - what's your idea of Apple's best CRT monitor for use with various Macs
JB
Hi Byrd:
I have an Apple Multiple Scan 17 monitor, which I used with my beige G3 before the motherboard died. Currently, my mom is using it on her HP Pavilion computer.
I have never owned an AppleVision monitor, but I don't see what the difference could be in comparison to my Multiple Scan (besides the physical features; I think the AppleVisions had built-in speakers on the sides), since both were manufactured by Sony.
Either than that, I think one of the most durable monitors ever produced was the Commodore 1701 & 1901. I use a 1701 with my video editing suite, and the picture quality is terrific, considering that the monitor is over 25 years old, and I had a 1901 before my first PC 10-III died.
I have an Apple Multiple Scan 17 monitor, which I used with my beige G3 before the motherboard died. Currently, my mom is using it on her HP Pavilion computer.
I have never owned an AppleVision monitor, but I don't see what the difference could be in comparison to my Multiple Scan (besides the physical features; I think the AppleVisions had built-in speakers on the sides), since both were manufactured by Sony.
Either than that, I think one of the most durable monitors ever produced was the Commodore 1701 & 1901. I use a 1701 with my video editing suite, and the picture quality is terrific, considering that the monitor is over 25 years old, and I had a 1901 before my first PC 10-III died.
Anything with a Sony Trinitron tube will do, or just get a Sony CRT.
For sharpness, nothing beats the Trinitrons. Even the older ones (Hi-Res 13", for example) will be clear and sharp.
I like the color of the 12" RGB. I know it's not the most well-loved monitor, but I prefer the way the colors look on this shadow mask display to those of the Hi-Res. The Macintosh Color Display is pretty good too--it's the Trinitron model that replaced the Hi-Res. I believe the same tube, or one very similar, was used in the LC 500s.
A well-tuned 9" CRT from a compact will always look good too. Most of Apple's monochrome monitors were pretty nice.
The worst Apple CRT, by the way, was probably the Performa Plus. It was basically a low-end PC monitor. Apple had a basic color monitor for a while that was also in this category. Both were vastly inferior to the old 12" RGB, which had been the low-end.
Personally, I prefer LCDs to CRTs and find the best vintage Mac experience to come on an active matrix PowerBook.
I like the color of the 12" RGB. I know it's not the most well-loved monitor, but I prefer the way the colors look on this shadow mask display to those of the Hi-Res. The Macintosh Color Display is pretty good too--it's the Trinitron model that replaced the Hi-Res. I believe the same tube, or one very similar, was used in the LC 500s.
A well-tuned 9" CRT from a compact will always look good too. Most of Apple's monochrome monitors were pretty nice.
The worst Apple CRT, by the way, was probably the Performa Plus. It was basically a low-end PC monitor. Apple had a basic color monitor for a while that was also in this category. Both were vastly inferior to the old 12" RGB, which had been the low-end.
Personally, I prefer LCDs to CRTs and find the best vintage Mac experience to come on an active matrix PowerBook.
APPLE AUDIOVISION 14
Best Display EVER. It's a shame they only made one size and fixed resolution.
Best Display EVER. It's a shame they only made one size and fixed resolution.
- Sony Trinitron
- Harman Kardon (as I remember) Speakers w/ bass chamber
- high-quality microphone
- 640x480 fixed
- ADB ports
- Mac OS integration with controls on front, also with control panels
- mic/headphone ports
- connect directly to 61/71/8100 PowerMacs with that weird port, one fat cable
- connect to other Macs with breakout adapter
Apple Portrait Display (OEM'd by Radius) there's NOTHING like it!
My AppleVision 1710 died on me some years back. The Apple ColorSync 17" I replaced it with "essentially the exact same display" just died on me about 3 weeks ago too. If you're going for a CRT, find a Trinitron just like everyone is suggesting. Best you're going to get.
dell (ugh) had a series of trinatron tube monitors (I snagged a 19 inch some twit marked as a 15 inch new back in the 90's for 99 bucks WOOT!) for a while sony was hard to beat for quite a while in that market
Osgeld--those old Dell monitors were amazing. I had a 17" Trinitron (1998 model) and it was razor-sharp. (No longer have it due to space constraints--sold it to a Linux die-hard a few years back). What vintage is your 19"?
Another worthy VGA display from the 90s was the NEC MultiSync line. These came out in the mid-90s just as multi-sync displays were really gaining in popularity. I don't believe they used a Trinitron tube, but they did offer the same sort of picture in terms of quality (minus the trademark gray lines).
Also, one for the "lousy" category. I'm not sure if any of you have ever heard of a company called Kingdom Computers, which has been gone now for many years, but they used to offer fairly inexpensive equipment. You only got what you paid for--their 55i 15" display was a complete disaster. The phosphor was shot in most of them after 3-4 years. They had a later 55i that wasn't bad, but the ones they sold circa 1998 were awful. Most of their computer components in general were pretty low-grade--repaired a good many of these in the day.
Another worthy VGA display from the 90s was the NEC MultiSync line. These came out in the mid-90s just as multi-sync displays were really gaining in popularity. I don't believe they used a Trinitron tube, but they did offer the same sort of picture in terms of quality (minus the trademark gray lines).
Also, one for the "lousy" category. I'm not sure if any of you have ever heard of a company called Kingdom Computers, which has been gone now for many years, but they used to offer fairly inexpensive equipment. You only got what you paid for--their 55i 15" display was a complete disaster. The phosphor was shot in most of them after 3-4 years. They had a later 55i that wasn't bad, but the ones they sold circa 1998 were awful. Most of their computer components in general were pretty low-grade--repaired a good many of these in the day.
i think it was around 98-99 but its long gone, I sold it as a gaming machine package to one of my friends, as it was big n heavy (though great picture)
and yes my personal preference was the NEC multisync's, they could usually be found cheaper and the picture was top notch, but I dispute your mid 90's, as I have one (i call the heater, with a failing screen) from the mid 80's, if it didnt give everything a green color it actually has a decent picture, and will do upto 800x600 56hz rgb... though it really does not like that, along with TTL, which is the reason I keep it, you can plug ANYTHING into it
I can't really say nice things about any of the Apple CRTs that I have. All of them have something wrong:
Macintosh 12" RGB: loose cables in the cord means that screen is green most of the time
AppleColor RGB: some component (capacitor?) has failed so the screen gets brighter and brighter the longer it's on
Apple Multiple Scan 17 (1994): something is loose on the CRT yoke (I think) meaning that the color changes slightly so often
Apple ColorSync 20" CRT: again, some component failure, so it's only usable at certain res/refresh settings, else the video compresses.
Macintosh 12" RGB: loose cables in the cord means that screen is green most of the time
AppleColor RGB: some component (capacitor?) has failed so the screen gets brighter and brighter the longer it's on
Apple Multiple Scan 17 (1994): something is loose on the CRT yoke (I think) meaning that the color changes slightly so often
Apple ColorSync 20" CRT: again, some component failure, so it's only usable at certain res/refresh settings, else the video compresses.
Wow, NEC was ahead of the game there! I guess I just didn't see any until around 1996 or so.
Osgeld--is your green tint from a bad pin or phosphor? I've seen plenty of Apple 12" RGBs with loose/bad pins that give them "pink-itis". I believe I saw this in a Color Classic once too. That NEC of yours sounds awesome, any chance you've got the model number for it?
Osgeld--is your green tint from a bad pin or phosphor? I've seen plenty of Apple 12" RGBs with loose/bad pins that give them "pink-itis". I believe I saw this in a Color Classic once too. That NEC of yours sounds awesome, any chance you've got the model number for it?
no its had the green tint since I got it (its also a bit dark), in the early 90's (for really cheap, it was my first color monitor for my then EGA machine) no matter what cable I stick on it or signal into it
I dont have the model number on hand, the monitor is at my parents house (found it online JC-1401P3A), but here is a pic from google of what it looks like
, and mine has a date of 1985
on the back there is a series of piano style dip switches so you can set different signal attributes for the expected incoming signal, an Atari style toggle switch to flip from TTL to RGB and a female 9 pin connector
on top there is a little flip up door which is your usual full set of screen adjustments and a couple switches I cant remember what they do
It is the first monitor to carry the Multisync name from NEC, its heavy as hell and runs hot
currently it still works fine but I need to take it apart and blow it out (its been on a workbench in my parents garage for a decade) and do the usual inspection
I dont have the model number on hand, the monitor is at my parents house (found it online JC-1401P3A), but here is a pic from google of what it looks like
on the back there is a series of piano style dip switches so you can set different signal attributes for the expected incoming signal, an Atari style toggle switch to flip from TTL to RGB and a female 9 pin connector
on top there is a little flip up door which is your usual full set of screen adjustments and a couple switches I cant remember what they do
It is the first monitor to carry the Multisync name from NEC, its heavy as hell and runs hot
currently it still works fine but I need to take it apart and blow it out (its been on a workbench in my parents garage for a decade) and do the usual inspection
Could the green tint be from Sync on Green issues?
it had the green tint when I first got it and had it running on a EGA (ttl signal) card combined with the darkness I always assumed someone left the joker on 24/7
I used it daily for years but turned it of whenever not in use, and far as I can tell the picture quality has not gone noticeably more south
also I dont think I have it setup for SOG, as the dip switches allow you to have 2 seperate sync's while on RGB
I will check it out sometime soon, but I am not dragging the beast into my apartment, I sorta like life and my wife
I used it daily for years but turned it of whenever not in use, and far as I can tell the picture quality has not gone noticeably more south
also I dont think I have it setup for SOG, as the dip switches allow you to have 2 seperate sync's while on RGB
I will check it out sometime soon, but I am not dragging the beast into my apartment, I sorta like life and my wife
Gotta agree - for reading large quantities of text it's pretty hard to beat that greyscale crispness. The portrait orientation might take a bit of getting used to, but after a while it feels sooo right.
I haven't tried the Apple Two Page Display yet (also greyscale) but I hear good things.
I also *loved* my 17" Applevision when I was on OS 9 (and it still worked). The fact that they're stuck on 640x480 on any other OS (or any machine without ADB) blows pretty hard. But for an ADB, OS 9 or earlier Mac, and *if* it still works, they are gorgeous. The ability to tweak and tune it through software is great, but also the reason why it's stuck in Classic land.
Yep - got a couple of those here too @ 21". Also awesome. Heavy as .. a heavy thing, and massive, but wow are they good displays. And they seem able to sync to just about anything.
Stuff breaks; 'tis the law of the universe, Jim. Everything needs maintenance eventually.
Yep, that sounds pretty versatile. Might have to keep an eye out for one of them.
They made a grayscale version (well, three versions: grayscale, green-scale, and amber-scale) of that monitor called the NEC Multisync GS. I picked up a couple of the amber versions at a surplus sale in the early 90's. They were special, and I abused them in all sorts of unholy ways.
(In terms of "specs" they topped out at 640x480@60hz, but you could push them higher. At the sort-of-standard 800x600@56hz of the first "SuperVGA" monitors the flyback transformer would actually make an ominous growling noise and you'd have to spin the vertical size pot down near the minimum to fit the picture on the screen. The *very first night* I ever played with Linux on a creaky 486 hooked to one of these monsters I used xvidtune to make a custom mode line that ran X11 at 800x600@51 Hz, which lowered the dot clock down to about the same ballpark as 640x480@60hz and made the monitor "happy" again.)
I have to admit I sometimes wonder how many equivalents of a chest X-ray I gave myself mucking around with those things. They would indeed work with just about anything.
Yep, I love the Classic Mac OS, never really have fallen for this "X" thing and the AppleVision 1710AV was the ultimate monitor. I remember in 2001 I was on a school field trip to Nashville, TN and I saw a room full of 8500/120's with AppleVision 1710AV displays and that still has me swooning. (The 1710AV might not hold up, but when it works one is in ABSOLUTE VINTAGE MAC MONITOR HEAVEN... IThat's the feeling the 1710AV still gets out of me...) 
Hi all,
updating this thread - as expected, my 17" AppleVision 1710 crapped out with funky colours so it made its way to the skip at work. Since it does the same thing as what my spare LCD does (multiple sync at various refresh rates), I could see myself not using it regularly, even if it did work.
Short of (never) finding an Apple Audiovision 14, I keenly sought something smaller and fixed sync to run on Macs like my IIsi etc. So for my current "all round" Mac monitor setup, I've now:
- Apple 13" Trinitron (the old box one, not the one with the stand - although this has one, some sort of universal Apple mount). Looks good alongside a Quadra 700, or on top of a IIsi/IIfx
- A plain, white, solid 15" LCD - small enough to keep indoors and good for using all other times I don't need the Apple 13"
JB
updating this thread - as expected, my 17" AppleVision 1710 crapped out with funky colours so it made its way to the skip at work. Since it does the same thing as what my spare LCD does (multiple sync at various refresh rates), I could see myself not using it regularly, even if it did work.
Short of (never) finding an Apple Audiovision 14, I keenly sought something smaller and fixed sync to run on Macs like my IIsi etc. So for my current "all round" Mac monitor setup, I've now:
- Apple 13" Trinitron (the old box one, not the one with the stand - although this has one, some sort of universal Apple mount). Looks good alongside a Quadra 700, or on top of a IIsi/IIfx
- A plain, white, solid 15" LCD - small enough to keep indoors and good for using all other times I don't need the Apple 13"
JB
Hi Byrd,
I picked up a Mac SE, LC, and LC 475, with an Audiovision 14. Is this monitor something special?
The one I have hasn't been looked after well, with lots of marks and yellowing, but I have never tried to get it to work. I was told it worked, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
I picked up a Mac SE, LC, and LC 475, with an Audiovision 14. Is this monitor something special?
The one I have hasn't been looked after well, with lots of marks and yellowing, but I have never tried to get it to work. I was told it worked, just haven't gotten around to it yet.
The AudioVision 14 is special because it's probably the highest quality CRT Apple made - great sound, picture, solid design. Problem is it doesn't do any better than 640 x 480, which is a limitation - and I think it has a weird adapter/video connector.
JB
JB
The AudioVision 14" itself is quite a hard monitor to find...I don't think they sold very well, mostly because they had the HDI-45 connector used with the NuBus PowerMacs, rather than the DB-15 connector traditionally used with Macs, and therefore required an adapter. Also, from memory they cost an absolute bomb.
On the other hand, however, the Macintosh Colour Display is basically the exact same monitor but without the built-in speakers, ADB ports or other goodies. It has the exact same tube as the AudioVision 14", and unlike the AudioVision, it sold like hotcakes, often being bundled with LC series machines. You should have no trouble finding a MCD for cheap or even free, and they are a very nice display, a fine addition to any 68k or early PowerPC Mac. Just like the AudioVision, they are fixed at 640x480, you cannot run them at any higher resolution, but apart from that they really are THE ideal display for vintage Macs.
On the other hand, however, the Macintosh Colour Display is basically the exact same monitor but without the built-in speakers, ADB ports or other goodies. It has the exact same tube as the AudioVision 14", and unlike the AudioVision, it sold like hotcakes, often being bundled with LC series machines. You should have no trouble finding a MCD for cheap or even free, and they are a very nice display, a fine addition to any 68k or early PowerPC Mac. Just like the AudioVision, they are fixed at 640x480, you cannot run them at any higher resolution, but apart from that they really are THE ideal display for vintage Macs.
As another perk, the MCD uses that standard DB-15 connector.
A word of caution: if you're using an original LC or other earlier Mac, make sure you have 512K VRAM installed to use 256 color mode on the MCD, Apple Hi-Res, or other monitor larger than 12". Otherwise you're stuck with 16 colors.
A word of caution: if you're using an original LC or other earlier Mac, make sure you have 512K VRAM installed to use 256 color mode on the MCD, Apple Hi-Res, or other monitor larger than 12". Otherwise you're stuck with 16 colors.
The 14" Apple Color Plus Display was vastly superior to the 14" Basic Color Monitor. Not sure I got those names exactly right. While neither was a trinitron, the Color Plus had a .28 pitch while the Basic had a .39 pitch and it was very noticeable.
The Color Plus had an issue with blowing its internal fuse.
Don't we all...
The Color Plus replaced the Basic Color Display as the mid-entry level Apple monitor in late 1993. The BCD had come out earlier that year to essentially fill the 12" RGB's void, just as the Macintosh Color Display took over for the Hi-Res RGB at the high end.
The Performa Plus was a different display altogether. I remember it being bundled with the 4xx Performas in particular (and also saw it on at least one P600). This was the lowest of the low end. Think of the basic, entry-level PC clone monitors of the time (i.e. Packard Bell, Compaq) and you've got this washed-out display.
Essentially, Apple had the following display lines for <15" color displays before the multiscan displays of 1995:
VALUE LEADER: Performa Plus
ENTRY LEVEL: 12" RGB, BCM, Color Plus
HIGH END SMALL DISPLAY: Hi-Res RGB, MCD
The Performa Plus was a different display altogether. I remember it being bundled with the 4xx Performas in particular (and also saw it on at least one P600). This was the lowest of the low end. Think of the basic, entry-level PC clone monitors of the time (i.e. Packard Bell, Compaq) and you've got this washed-out display.
Essentially, Apple had the following display lines for <15" color displays before the multiscan displays of 1995:
VALUE LEADER: Performa Plus
ENTRY LEVEL: 12" RGB, BCM, Color Plus
HIGH END SMALL DISPLAY: Hi-Res RGB, MCD
I also used several 17" Apple monitors. As long as they served well, the picture was excellent, but two 1710 models died from electronics failure and the older and even taller Apple 17" Trinitron died from ongoing disintegration of the plastics.
A few years ago I opted for a pair of EIZO L365 LCDs. Their platinum grey bezel matches perfectly old Apple gear and seems not to yellow at all (multy sync up to native resolution of 1024x768, stereo speakers, VGA and DVI input). The video connector cable from the Apple design 15" display can be used to connect the L365 to a standard Macintosh video output without the use of a separate adaptor.
A few years ago I opted for a pair of EIZO L365 LCDs. Their platinum grey bezel matches perfectly old Apple gear and seems not to yellow at all (multy sync up to native resolution of 1024x768, stereo speakers, VGA and DVI input). The video connector cable from the Apple design 15" display can be used to connect the L365 to a standard Macintosh video output without the use of a separate adaptor.
What about the quality of 1) apple multiscan 14 display, 2) apple multiscan 15 display and 3) apple multiple scan 15AV display? I have a mac performa 6116 with philips monitor 14" and i want to buy some time a new monitor. From the suggestions of this topic i am thinking of checking the macintosh colour display and the audiovision display. I don't care if i cannot have bigger resolution than 640x480.